So I've been looking over the various styles and trying to think of combinations which would work especially well. What are your thoughts?
I think Snake Style + Crane Style would be great, especially at low levels - if your opponent lands an attack, you deflect it and gain an attack of opportunity; if they miss, you gain an attack of opportunity, and if that lands, you get an additional attack. Wicked.
It isn't Master of Many Styles, but a zen archer with the Snap Shot feat tree, the Panther style combat tree and Combat Patrol would seriously be ruinous.
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Just thought I'd point out, you do need to spend a swift action to switch between styles (unless there's some way to use multiple styles that I haven't yet noticed). It's mentioned at the beginning of the Feats chapter, under Style Feats.
The master of many styles archetype lets you have multiple styles activated based off of your level, also at higher levels it lets you switch styles as a free action
It isn't Master of Many Styles, but a zen archer with the Snap Shot feat tree, the Panther style combat tree and Combat Patrol would seriously be ruinous.
Why's that?
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As a master of many styles I would aim for crane style, tiger style and snake style.
Crane style is awesome for survival.
Tiger style gives you slashing damage, a great full attack action that combines well (which you lack because you don't have flurry of blows) and the ability to become take the power attack penalty to your ac(which is great since high to hit roll synergizes great with increasd damage).
Snake style gives you piercing damage and the ability to dodge ranged attacks relaibly. (Especially ranged touch attacks)The rest of its benefit are solid too.
After these dragon style increases your damage a bit but the intimidate effect is rather meh.
Mantis styles is good to take without its follow up feats for the +2 dc to stunning fist increase.
A sample progression:
1st Stunning fist, Unarmed strike, Crane style, Weapon focus(unarmed srike), Power attack
2nd Combat reflexes
3rd Tiger style
5th Crane wing
6th Tiger claws
7th Crane riposte
9th Tiger pounce
10th Snake style
11th Snake sidewind
13th snake fang
14th Dragon style
15th Dragon roar
17th Dragon ferocity
18th Medusas wrath
19th Mantis style
I am not sure but boar style and dragon style might combine nicely for fear inducing tactics
I like the idea of Tiger Style + Crane Style; good point about the synergy between Tiger Pounce and fighting defensively via Crane Style. Personally, if I was going that route, I would probably take Dodge for my human bonus feat, Crane Style for my level 1 feat, and Tiger Style for my monk bonus feat, just to be able to start with both of those from the get-go.
I love Snake Fang. My one question about Snake Style: do you *have* to take the Sense Motive check as your AC? Or can you choose after you've rolled? I read it as you can choose, but I'm not 100% sure.
A point of confusion: unless I missed something, a monk can't take Weapon Focus or Power Attack at level 1, since their BAB is 0. Which is a shame, since they'd be nice to have so early.
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I love Snake Fang. My one question about Snake Style: do you *have* to take the Sense Motive check as your AC? Or can you choose after you've rolled? I read it as you can choose, but I'm not 100% sure.
It says *CAN*, so you get to choose to take the sense motive check as your AC. However, I would think you'd have to choose THEN roll rather than roll, see if your SM check is higher than your AC then choose.
A point of confusion: unless I missed something, a monk can't take Weapon Focus or Power Attack at level 1, since their BAB is 0. Which is a shame, since they'd be nice to have so early.
Ahh, you are right of course, my mistake.
Maybe take Power attack at 3rd level and Tiger style at 1st as the monks bonus feat (so as to ignore tiger style's prereqs). Swap weapon focus with whatever.
Having stared really hard at Master of Many Styles, I believe I have the best build possible.
First you get the entire Crane path, so that you can interrupt their attack.
Then you get the Dragon path, so that the interrupt can be on fire.
Then you get JUST Mantis Style for the +2 Stunning Fist DC.
So when an opponent attacks you, you instantly counterattack with a flaming uppercut that inflict stun.
SHORYUKEN!
Clearly this is the best plan.
Having stared really hard at Master of Many Styles, I believe I have the best build possible.
First you get the entire Crane path, so that you can interrupt their attack.
Then you get the Dragon path, so that the interrupt can be on fire.
Then you get JUST Mantis Style for the +2 Stunning Fist DC.
So when an opponent attacks you, you instantly counterattack with a flaming uppercut that inflict stun.
SHORYUKEN!
Clearly this is the best plan.
Sorry, but we're playing MVC3. Enjoy my rocket punch spam.
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It isn't Master of Many Styles, but a zen archer with the Snap Shot feat tree, the Panther style combat tree and Combat Patrol would seriously be ruinous.Why's that?
Snap Shot lets him take AoOs with a bow, and Improved Snap Shot lets him threaten out to 10 feet.
He uses Combat Patrol to make his threatened area from 10ft. to 20ft.
Panther Style -> Panther Claw -> Panther Parry lets him take a free attack against anyone who takes an AoO on him for moving. This must be an unarmed strike.
Since he's a zen archer, he can take AoOs with his unarmed strikes or his bow.
In addition, Combat Patrol allows him to move as part of his attacks of opportunity. This provokes as normal.
In one turn with Combat Reflexes and a high dex (5 or so) you could:
Fighting three guys
0. You win init and use Combat Patrol to make you threaten out to 20 feet (10ft bow, 5ft unarmed, have to move into range to make attacks)
1. One guy runs up to you. You wait until he is 10 feet away, shoot him with your bow, and move through his threatened squares vertically, provoking. He attacks you, you trip him, and shoot him again.
2. The next guy runs up-- you wait until he is 5 feet away, shoot him, and then move through his threatened squares horizontally, provoking. He attacks you, you trip him, and shoot him again.
3.The third guy runs up-- you wait until he is 5 feet away, shoot him, and then move through his threatened squares, provoking from him. He attacks you, you trip him, shoot him, and then run the rest of your movement away (70+ feet).
I think you would have to be level 20 to accomodate for the two Snap Shot feats, the three Panther-style feats, Combat Patrol, Combat Expertise, Improved and Greater trip, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility etc. but it is a really amusing character to me.
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Half-Elf monk with Skill Focus: Sense Motive and oh, let's say Alertness too. How high can you get your AC compared with a skill check, anyway?
Make it a gnome with 1 level of synthesist and the skilled[perception] evolution. Tack on the Tomb Raider trait for +1 and perception as a class skill.
Not saying it is an optimal build, but if you want to see how high you can take perception.....
Actually, it's Sense Motive that needs to be bumped for Snake Style.
Sorry, but we're playing MVC3. Enjoy my rocket punch spam.Having stared really hard at Master of Many Styles, I believe I have the best build possible.
First you get the entire Crane path, so that you can interrupt their attack.
Then you get the Dragon path, so that the interrupt can be on fire.
Then you get JUST Mantis Style for the +2 Stunning Fist DC.
So when an opponent attacks you, you instantly counterattack with a flaming uppercut that inflict stun.
SHORYUKEN!
Clearly this is the best plan.
+1 love it
I like it. I'd also been thinking about combining Panther and Snake Styles. Maybe throw in the Monk of the Four Winds archetype to provide a damage boost to your retaliatory strikes.
My question is this, then: let's say I have Panther Style and Snake Fang. I move through a threatened square, provoke an attack of opportunity, and the enemy misses their attack. Do I get two attacks, one of which is the retaliatory strike from Panther Style and one of which is rebuttal from Snake Fang?
My question is this, then: let's say I have Panther Style and Snake Fang. I move through a threatened square, provoke an attack of opportunity, and the enemy misses their attack. Do I get two attacks, one of which is the retaliatory strike from Panther Style and one of which is rebuttal from Snake Fang?
You absolutely do. While an opponents action cannot provoke multiple attacks of opportunity, Panther Style specifically states the attack is retaliation, not opportunity.
The only real issue with the build is it makes the monk ever MADer. The whole deal only works a number of times equal to your dex or wis (whichever is lower), and you'll need plenty of strength to make the hits more than love taps.
My question is this, then: let's say I have Panther Style and Snake Fang. I move through a threatened square, provoke an attack of opportunity, and the enemy misses their attack. Do I get two attacks, one of which is the retaliatory strike from Panther Style and one of which is rebuttal from Snake Fang?You absolutely do. While an opponents action cannot provoke multiple attacks of opportunity, Panther Style specifically states the attack is retaliation, not opportunity.
Good to know; I was, of course, hoping for as much. : )
The only real issue with the build is it makes the monk ever MADer. The whole deal only works a number of times equal to your dex or wis (whichever is lower), and you'll need plenty of strength to make the hits more than love taps.I don't really see it as MAD. Though get Weapon Finesse, that will ensure that you hit. Other than that you don't really need strength, not compared to what you get from both dexterity and wisdom (which is extra attacks, more AC, more CMD). Not saying to completely neglect Strength, but it should in no way be a focus, more in the same category as constitution, making it nice to have a bit, but not the most important.
That's one way to go about it, but even if you only have a +2 modifier in Wis and Dex, you're still getting 3 AoOs a round, which I would think would be sufficient in most circumstances.
With a Master of Many Styles, I would personally try to avoid having to take extra feats (like Weapon Finesse) as much as possible, since there are so many style feats to be grabbed.
I'd also been thinking about combining Panther and Snake Styles. Maybe throw in the Monk of the Four Winds archetype to provide a damage boost to your retaliatory strikes.
Someone else pointed out to me in another thread that you can't combine 4 Winds and Many Styles, as they both replace the Perfect Self ability. I asked if it mattered that it is a 20th level ability, and I would never be a 20th level Monk. People seemed to agree that it mattered. *sad face*
You could still gain the same 4 Winds elemental fist ability as early as 3rd level, though. You'd have to take the first two Dragon Style feats as Monk bonus feats at 1st and 2nd level, then take Elemental Fist at 3rd level. But then that would delay learning the Panther and Snake styles.
That's one way to go about it, but even if you only have a +2 modifier in Wis and Dex, you're still getting 3 AoOs a round, which I would think would be sufficient in most circumstances.
With a Master of Many Styles, I would personally try to avoid having to take extra feats (like Weapon Finesse) as much as possible, since there are so many style feats to be grabbed.
Well, 3 AoOs but only 2 Panther Retaliations (unless you want to burn your swift action). Still good, but where is the fun if you don't get to punch everyone twice for having the audacity to attack you?
I agree about feats being a big issue with Master of Many Styles. I would probably mix in a couple fighter levels to keep up, maybe even go straight fighter after 8th level. Who needs four styles anyway?
Someone else pointed out to me in another thread that you can't combine 4 Winds and Many Styles, as they both replace the Perfect Self ability. I asked if it mattered that it is a 20th level ability, and I would never be a 20th level Monk. People seemed to agree that it mattered. *sad face*
You could still gain the same 4 Winds elemental fist ability as early as 3rd level, though. You'd have to take the first two Dragon Style feats as Monk bonus feats at 1st and 2nd level, then take Elemental Fist at 3rd level. But then that would delay learning the Panther and Snake styles.
You're right; my bad. Slipped my mind.
Yeah, one would think you could potentially get that waved. Either way, it still stacks with Drunken Master, and you also get access to it if you go the Dragon Style route, like you said.
My sample feat progression:
1st - Improved Initiative (Human), Dodge, Snake Style (MoMS)
2nd - Snake Fang (MoMS)
3rd - Crane Style
5th - Crane Wing
6th - Tiger Style (MoMS)
7th - Combat Reflexes
9th - Power Attack
10th - Tiger Pounce (MoMS)
11th - Mobility
13th - Combat Patrol
14th - Crane Riposte (MoMS)
15th - Dragon Style
17th - Dragon Ferocity
18th - Dragon Roar (MoMS)
19th - Mantis Style
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Dragon/Snake/Panther.
Keep Dragon and Snake up at all times. By the time you get Panther filled out you should be able to Fuse 3 Styles.
First round of combat, take the most dangerous possible path across the battlefield to the enemy. Provoke as many AoOs as possible.
Retaliate with Panther Parry and Snake Fang as many times as possible. If they miss you, you can get two attacks on them. Three on one guy (Panther Parry, Snake Fang miss AoO, Snake Fang Immediate Action attack).
Beat down the guy you chose to destroy.
Rinse and repeat.
Dragon/Snake/Panther.
Keep Dragon and Snake up at all times. By the time you get Panther filled out you should be able to Fuse 3 Styles.
First round of combat, take the most dangerous possible path across the battlefield to the enemy. Provoke as many AoOs as possible.
Retaliate with Panther Parry and Snake Fang as many times as possible. If they miss you, you can get two attacks on them. Three on one guy (Panther Parry, Snake Fang miss AoO, Snake Fang Immediate Action attack).
Beat down the guy you chose to destroy.
Rinse and repeat.
Stop reading my mind!
Also, go back to Myrial! ;)
I went with Crane, Snake and Dragon. Being able to charge across difficult terrain with a monk's increased speed was handy.