Chris Parker's page

Organized Play Member. 469 posts (828 including aliases). 1 review. No lists. 1 wishlist. 7 Organized Play characters. 8 aliases.


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One system that I think did this really well is BECMI D&D - it has five levels of weapon proficiency, not including non-proficiency: Trained, Skilled, Expert, Master and Grand Master. Each level of proficiency does more than just static bonuses - it adds new abilities to the weapon.

The Normal Sword, for instance, gives a bonus to AC vs an increasing number of attacks (Skilled gives you a bonus to AC vs one attack; Grand Master gives vs three), the ability to make a saving throw to deflect an attack that would otherwise hit a certain number of times per round, and increased damage per hit. The Battle Axe, on the other hand, gives bonuses to AC and increased damage at a different rate than the Normal Sword, but instead of allowing you to deflect attacks, it allows you to daze your opponents unless they succeed on a save.

Naturally this stuff is probably more powerful than we really want proficiency to be, but it does give some ideas for making different weapons feel genuinely different and for rewarding higher levels of skill.

It would likewise be nice if something like this could be added to skills - currently, going from Expert to Master just feels like a +1 bonus, which is honestly just boring.


Most DCs don't change by level. For example, balancing on a fallen log is listed on page 338 as a level 1 task that becomes trivial at level 6. As such, it is roughly DC 15. It will always be DC 15. The table for DCs based on level is intended to describe which kinds of tasks make for a good challenge at a given level. That is, incidentally, how the 4e skill system worked prior to Essentials too.

Having said that, I'd much rather see the different levels of proficiency make more difference and character level make much less of a difference than have things as they are currently; beyond the availability of skill feats, there is little to differentiate them currently.


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Based purely on the skill DCs by level and difficulty, this feat is just awful. DC 10 is below trivial for a level 2 character (first level you can take it if you're not human), meaning that it literally cannot pass anything that the GM ought to otherwise be asking for a roll on. The few things with fixed DCs naturally all have DCs much higher than 10. For any skill you only intend to have trained, this feat is utterly worthless.

At level 2, however, you can become an expert in a skill. DC 15 is a high DC at level 2, and doesn't become trivial until level 6. At this point, however, is the skill is not a signature skill, you might as well retrain it. At level 7, 20 is already a low DC, and becomes trivial at level 11. At level 15, 30 is below the threshold for low, but never goes below the threshold for trivial.

As such, I might recommend this feat for a skill you plan to be an expert in, but then retrain it around level 6-7, or possibly for a skill you plan to be legendary at (with the understanding that between levels 11 and 14 it will be utterly useless); but only if you don't have something much, much better to spend your skill feat on (which you almost certainly do).

Ultimately, I'd much rather keep the old take 10/20 systems. As a GM, I generally just assume they're being done whenever they're an option, and only ask for a roll when one of them isn't an option. If you really have to feat lock it to a specific skill, then fine, but Assurance in its current form is almost always a waste of a perfectly good feat.


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I know a lot of people have been complaining about this being a lot like 4e multiclassing, which they dislike. Personally, I prefer it being more like 4e multiclassing. I mean, ultimately, I prefer the idea of gradually learning to be the second class while still advancing your primary class over, for example, the idea that it takes longer to learn to be a first level Fighter if you do a one level dip at second level or at 10th, but either way you don't get better at your primary class.

As for characters that just stop being one class and become another, that hasn't really been a viable option since the days of AD&D. In 3.x/Pathfinder 1, if you spend eight levels as a Fighter and then suddenly become a Wizard, at level 9 you're a Fighter with a couple of spells that probably aren't compatible with your armour, and by level 20 you're just a bad Fighter and a marginally less bad Wizard. In either case, if you want to completely swap from one to the other, you're going to need a chat with your GM. In PF1, that's probably going to involve exchanging levels of Fighter for levels of Wizard as you level up; in PF2, it's probably going to involve some multiclassing of Wizard using the retraining mechanics, before then rebuilding as a Wizard multiclassed with Fighter, before finally removing the Fighter aspects with more retraining.

I mean, ultimately, if you don't want the class you start out as to fundamentally define your character throughout the campaign, then you're probably better off playing a game that doesn't actually use classes. There are a lot of really good ones to choose from.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Davor wrote:
There may very well be two-handed Agile Weapons that would key off of Strength. I'd wait to see the full weapons list before making any judgments about the Strength Rogue being dead.
This is fair. A two-handed Agile weapon would actually be very good mechanically (if it did decent damage), and an excellent choice for a Str Rogue (and could not be used with Dex, or add Dex-to-damage).

I still reckon this would be an excellent niche for weapons like the Bastard Sword or Katana, which in PF1 are basically just objectively worse versions of existing two handed weapons.


RafaelBraga wrote:
The more i read: "we probably will not get armor as DR in PF2" the most sad and unhyped i become :(

I am unsurprised - I mean, in PF1 it was an optional rule that never saw an updated sheet that could take advantage of it, much like the optional stuff from Pathfinder Unchained (which really sucks because I actually like grouped skills).


With regard to armour, it's worth remembering that most hit point loss is minor cuts and bruises - there's a reason you don't get worse at fighting until you hit 0. If you've got armour as DR, then someone hitting you in the chest with a sword hard enough to do damage in spite of you wearing chain doesn't mean that this person cut through your chain; it means that enough of the force got through to hurt you. If it was a particularly nasty blow, then you might have a broken rib or two - when if you hadn't been wearing chain, you might instead be dead.

With regard to STR vs DEX, all of the movement stuff that involves agility also involves strength to some extent. For example, let's take that old scene of there being a guard just about to discover you, except when he turns the corner, you're gone. After he leaves, you drop down from the ceiling. If you aren't strong enough to hold your own body weight above your head for an extended period, you're also not strong enough to pull off something like that. If you struggle to do sit ups while dangling by the legs, your stomach muscles aren't strong enough. If you can't do pull ups and hold yourself at the highest point for at least five minutes, your arm muscles aren't strong enough.

In Pathfinder 1e terms, that's a minimum of 12 in strength for humans (minimum weight is 95lb for a human female or 130lb for a human male, both of which fall under 12 provided you're not carrying any gear); ideally 13-14. Dexterity 18, Strength 14 and a +2 to damage from being a Rogue is functionally identical to getting Dexterity to damage, with the added bonus of being better at climbing and being able to pull off impressive physical stunts that require both strength and agility.


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Has anyone here ever seen an acrobat up close? I have, and let me tell you, those folks are ripped. Not quite Bruce Lee in his prime ripped (go and watch one of the many clips of his topless fight scenes if you don't know what I mean) but ripped. There's no such thing as a weak acrobat. I mean, have you seen the kind of stuff they do? Take a look at this, and seriously ask yourself if someone with Strength 10 (never mind Strength 8) could even consider doing stuff like this. Sure, I wouldn't consider Strength 18 as a prerequisite for that kind of stuff, but 14 seems pretty reasonable - which of course then gives the bonus to damage in melee.

Now I can think of two ways to model this. The first would be to have stat requirements instead of level requirements for specific levels of training. For example, Acrobatics would require a strength of 10 just for training, a 12 for expert and a 14 for master or higher - it's not that higher strength makes certain movements easier, just some movements require a certain amount of strength before you can even attempt them. Likewise, mastery in a given weapon proficiency would probably require an intelligence of 12 or 14 (if combat expertise still exists and has one of those as a prerequisite, maybe use that prerequisite instead).

Alternatively, and I actually kind of prefer the idea of doing it this way, have gaining a level of proficiency higher than trained give a stat bump to a related stat (though preferably not the one it's keyed to). For example, becoming an expert archer would probably net you a strength bump, as would becoming an expert acrobat, while becoming an expert in perception might give you an intelligence bump as you start noticing patterns that others miss. The main reason I kind of prefer this is that it encourages considering skills that you otherwise might not think of. If there's a concern regarding people having much higher stats at first level than is currently the case, maybe consider reducing the number of stat bumps available in character creation.


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Davor wrote:
The agile keyword is actually a big deal. I could easily see d10 two-hander with agile being a thing, or a d8 two-hander that has lots of keywords that benefits from other two-hander centric feats/abilities. I suppose we won't know until we see the full equipment list, but that's a promising thought.

Bastard sword as d10 agile two handed (with maybe a feat to let you use it one handed but without the agile keyword) could possibly work - it would actually give the weapon its own niche as opposed to being either a slightly better longsword with a feat tax or a crap great sword...


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The main reason I prefer Pathfinder over 5e is the skill system - not so much the way ranks are set out, but the way that DCs reflect how difficult a task is from the perspective of someone who lives in a world where roughly 90% of the population is made up of level 1 commoners, most decently trained warriors are level 1 warriors rather than fighters, and going beyond level 5 makes you a truly remarkable person. In 5e, meanwhile, I find the DCs to be fairly arbitrary.

Now obviously we don't yet know how the DCs are going to be structured for skills, but ultimately if a lock is simple enough that someone who is only trained can unlock it, then someone who is legendary at picking locks should have an easier time than someone who is only trained, even if the legendary one is level 12 and the trained one is level 20. Now it might turn out that the playtest document will give me exactly the kind of information that would make me feel more at ease with this. If it turns out that DCs tend to be relative to the level of the person doing the thing, then frankly I'd just remove the bonus from level entirely and only use the proficiency levels.


It's possible I was looking at it from the wrong angle. I mean, I could see taking two similar classes as being quite useful (fighter/paladin, for example, or wizard/magus) for the complementary class features, while some other combinations give you an extra trick you can pull off which might be useful once in a while (sorcerer/monk for instance).


LazarX wrote:
strangepork wrote:
But would the fighter with vmc wiz get any spells or a spellbook? all i see are the school powers and a familiar.
And that's EXACTLY what they get.

If that's the case, why would you vmc a caster when you don't get the main class feature (i.e. casting)?


That's a shame - my own fault really. With two players definitely quit, and one player not responding (I'm guessing he's stopped checking, for which I can't blame him), I'm thinking it's time to call the game dead.

I'm really sorry for my absence; hopefully you'll all at least use Legend in your own games at some point now that you've been introduced to it.


That sounds like a good idea.


Sorry about that. Had lots of assignment work to get through, and ended up somewhat distracted. I'll post an update shortly, and I hope this never happens again.


That'll be quite useful. Thanks.


In fact, I believe Riddick was largely based off of his Drow character, if memory serves.

Also, during the filming of Chronicles of Riddick, they played a D&D campaign DMed by Judy Dench - she was apparently rather good at it.


True enough, but it sometimes seems that it's all people are playing elsewhere too. I know it's not true, but still.


No worries. I rather like this system too, and it saddens me that so many people only ever play D&D and its derivatives. That's why I like introducing people to cool alternatives.


I'm still waiting for the last player. Also, yes, you'll be starting in Korvosa. Makes it easier to get you all together ;) .


I'm pretty sure your sorcery skill should be 41, not just 1. Also, you should have two languages at +50% - your ethnic language and Common. Finally, Lore Regional should have 10 points spent on it, not 5. Either that, or you've spent 5 points too few and it should be 61%, not 66%...

Otherwise, once you've sorted equipment and background you're good to go.


OK, well, I'm back in University now, so I'm ready to start when you all are. To start with, I'll open the thread, and I'd like you to each post what your character would be doing a little after noon on an average day.


That's how it works. 10 to unlock a skill and 20 to improve it count as the full 30 you can use.


Base + expenditure = total works great. Also, it's equal to or lower. Exactly equal to is a success.


Uh yeah. It was meant to be 80 point buy, so Cirle, feel free to add two points anywhere you like. Also, I believe I said that you also get +50% to Language Common (everybody does, since it's a trade language that just about everyone is fluent in), and your Language Shoanti should be at its default + 50%; not just 50%. Also, because everyone gets Common for free, that frees up 10 points for you - you may want to put them into your pact skill (that would be my suggestion). Otherwise, everything looks to be in order.

Everything appears to be in order for Balian's sheet, though I would like to know where the 250 points were spent.

As to Jarl, I'd like to see the damage modifier separately - I'm guessing it's -1d2, but it's something I'd like to be able to see in case you need to punch someone or the like.

Catcher's stuff is fine, but again I'd like to know where the points were spent (I had trouble making that out on the spreadsheet).


Adding mine to Jade Regent - I certainly wouldn't mind playing that at some point.


Pistol and Rapier is a melee style that allows you to use both in melee, or just a rapier in melee. You don't need a separate style for just a rapier. The reason I suggested a separate style for just a pistol was so that you can use double dexterity for your ranged attacks. If you don't mind using strength + dexterity for those, you can use the same style for that too. Also, feel free to use mercenary instead - the professions I suggested were just those - suggestions.

Also, seeing as Healing involves curing diseases and the like without magic, that would involve knowing about which herbs to use, how to recognise them, how to mix them and so on. That knowledge would also include how to make poisons, since making medicines and making poisons are practically the same skill. Torture, meanwhile, doesn't really have any other applications, so it gets its own skill.


I'd go with Healing, personally. Craft is making things, while Lore is theoretical knowledge. Healing would encompass medicinal use of herbs, and learning about how to cure poisons or diseases involves learning about those poisons and diseases. You'd need a healer's kit, which would contain pretty much all the herbs you'd need, as well as the pestle and mortar.


In that case, you get to unlock the Lore (Magic) advanced skill, or else add 10% to it if you already have it unlocked.


huh. I'm looking for the post where I did that, but apparently I didn't... I'm sorry about that. Right, Addiction (other) gives you either +10% lore (korvosa) or else unlocks Streetwise. Widowed gives +10% Influence, Missing Sibling unlocks Streetwise and Tortured, my recommendation for Catcher, gives +10% Evade. If you already have a skill that gets unlocked, add 10% to it instead.


Yeah, I was kinda waiting for people to actually get to that point - that being said, I actually have given details to those who've actually given their background already - the traits are along the same lines as the Pathfinder versions. They're basically +10% to whichever skill maps over to the Pathfinder version, or in the case of Advanced Skills that aren't already trained, the ability to use that skill.


I'll be going back to university in a week or so, at which point it'll be far more feasible to start. As to combat, yeah, that's going to be rather slow - which is unfortunately unavoidable in pbp. I can mitigate it though. For one thing, there will be far fewer combats - you don't get XP from fighting, so there's no point in running into groups of enemies who are only there to get you to a certain level on time.

For another, while 3-4 posts a week is ok for most of the game, during combats I may have to insist on at least one post per day to keep things moving. In that case, I'll either post once everyone else has posted, or at my earliest convenience the next day, whichever happens first - if someone hasn't posted, I'll just assume they're using their action defensively.

Finally, most of the nameless mooks you face will use an optional rule from RuneQuest 6: they get their CON+SIZ/5 as hp, rounded down, and once they take a major wound, they die.

As to your sheet, you may want to put a few more points into common magic (if you can; I can't see where you put points into it). When your character is done, I'd prefer to see the stats in your profile.


I wasn't planning to, but if you could make a good case for it...


Sorry Huston - I'd tried to send a reply from my phone and failed, but then forgot that I'd not actually sent it. That order sounds pretty cool, and I can't think of anything that needs changing.


In addition, if you want to use a two handed sword but don't want to look like Arnold Schwartzenegger in his prime, go with a longsword. A longsword and a bastard sword were basically the same thing historically - a primarily two handed weapon that sufficiently strong people could use in one hand. It'll give you the same damage die, though I think there's a combat manoeuvre you don't get to use, so if you don't want to be primarily melee right from the start, you're better with that than with a great sword (which represents the six to seven foot long doppel handers of medieval germany).

Availability is not a problem - if you want to learn an advanced skill, there will be someone who can teach you. If you want a specific type of weapon, you'll be able to find it (magic weapons will be rare, but master crafted weapons are far better in this system than in Pathfinder - and are substantially more expensive as a result). So yeah, you will probably want to take two handed sword as a combat skill in order to be able to use a bastard sword two handed (unless you want to use a sword and shield, or else a war sword by itself and a shield if you find one), you may want to pick up Common Magic (10 points to unlock it, and up to 20 points towards improving it) and you'll definitely want to improve your thieving skills.

As to Common Spells, you get six to start with, if you have Common Magic unlocked, and I'd suggest ones that suit thievery.


I'm not using rolls for stats, so your point buy works fine. I'll see what I can do, but I'd assumed people wouldn't be rolling for background.


Well, the group could probably use a dedicated magic user - divine or arcane makes little difference, since both have access to magical healing and attacks.


The assumed setting gives the Common Magic skill as a Common Skill, as well as six known Common Spells. Because of the nature of Golarion, however, I'm treating it as an Advanced Skill, though you still get six spells if you take it.

Also, I'll need to know why you want to find Lamm - it needs to be something personal, and I'd suggest something based on the traits listed in the Crimson Throne Players Guide. I've got some extra skill bonuses listed for each one, based on the ones given in the guide.


Right, Jakthion, one of the things with weapon styles in Legend is that you can just use one of the weapons with that style (for example, sword and shield allows you to just use a single handed sword). So you can pick a different third combat style if you wish.

Next up, we've got professions. I'd suggest that both Balian and Jakthion take the Soldier profession, which gives +5% to Athletics, Brawn, Evade and Resilience, and +10% to two combat styles appropriate to your culture. It also opens up Lore (Tactics). For Catcher, I'd suggest Thief, which gives +10% to Evaluate, Perception, Sleight of Hand and Stealth, and opens up Streetwise, Disguise or Mechanisms (your choice).

Also, Jakthion may add +10% to Influence (since this is used for intimidation, so it makes the most sense), Balian may open up Streetwise, and Catcher either opens up Streetwise or, if she opened it up for the profession, add 10% to it.

Once that's all done, I'll list out all the skills, for those of you who don't have the rules, along with their default values, and you'll have 250 points to spread between them; spending no more than 30 on any one skill.


Well, rather than this game, I'm recruiting for a Curse of the Crimson Throne Legend game in a different thread; I've got three players so far who've done more than simply express interest, so there's definitely room.


PM sent. I'll create an alias when the game starts; for now my character sheet is on mythweavers. Backstory coming shortly.


I'd be interested in creating a Kensai for this, if that would be useful.


I'd pick up at least the first feat for called shots, and possibly the second if we reach a high enough level, but it's more to give options in terms of melee - if magic is a rare thing, then a magic user may wish to avoid attention, and the option of going for a vulnerable spot can be rather useful. There may be times where we don't actually want to kill the people we're fighting with, for example - stopping someone from fighting using a non-permanent status effect caused by a called shot is a decent alternative (most people won't keep fighting once they receive something like "Sickened" from a blow - not unless it's the kind of thing they're willing to die for.

But yeah, I'll go ahead and create a longsword wielding Kensai. He'll probably avoid using obvious magic unless he absolutely has to - and as such will also avoid mentioning his talents. Subtle magic, on the other hand...


I wouldn't mind playing a human magus (kensai). Would I be allowed to use the Slashing Grace feat that was introduced in the ACG playtest? If you're unfamiliar, it allows you to choose a single one handed slashing weapon and be able to count it as a light piercing weapon for all feats and class abilities that require one. As a magus, it'd just let me use Weapon Finesse with a longsword.

Also, would you be open to using the called shot rules from Ultimate Combat?


Catcher: So what did Gaedren Lamm do to you? You have to have a personal reason to want the man dead. I'd suggest taking a look at the Player's Guide for CotCT, and picking one of the traits from that (you'll be given bonus skill points later).

For those of you who have done stats so far: It's time to pick a culture. If you're from one of the Shoanti tribes, then you're a Barbarian; if you're from the city of Korvosa, then you're civilised. These will give you some free skills. Each skill starts off as the total of two stats. You may use a common skill without training, but you must be trained in the use of an advanced skill before using it.

In addition to that, everybody gets +30 to Culture (own) and Lore (regional), and +50 to Language (Common) and your own racial/ethnic language. 50% or higher in a language represents conversational fluency.

Barbarians pick three combat styles to add +10 to, while civilised people pick one. These must be appropriate to your culture - barbarians don't typically use rapiers, for instance, while civilised people don't typically use blowguns.

Barbarians get +10 to Athletics and Resilience and +5 to Brawn, Perception, Ride and Stealth, while civilised people +20 to evaluate and Influence.

Barbarians start with the Survival advanced skill, and one of Craft (any), Lore (any), Play Instrument or Track, while civilised people start with Courtesy and any three of Art (any), Craft (any), Language (any), Mechanisms, Play Instrument or Streetwise.

Finally, a barbarian starts with 4d6*20 silver pieces, while a civilised person starts with 4d6*75. There are five lead bits to the copper penny, ten copper pennies to the silver piece and twenty silver pieces to the gold crown. Silver is the most common unit of currency, but I'm sure you'll find some gold somewhere down the line.

Once you've all picked a culture, I'll suggest a few professions, which will add a few more skills.


Yep. You'll want a relatively even mix of all seven abilities (STR and DEX for swordsmanship, SIZ and CON for being able to take a beating, INT and POW for your more powerful magic and CHA for some of your weaker magic). You won't be able to start with full plate (in fact you'll have trouble starting with better than a chain hauberk - good armour is pretty expensive in this system), but there'll be nothing stopping you wearing it once you can afford it.


I'm still planning to run this, depending on players. You're one of only three people to do more than say they're interested though. I hope I get at least four players, but I'm willing to run with three. That being said, I have a feeling that the fights will be somewhat more challenging if that happens - stealth will definitely be an asset in that case.


I used Gaedren Lamm because it gives my character a reason to both be born into poverty and to have escaped into the countryside. Rather than try to get even, he just wanted to leave that life behind, and headed in the direction of where this campaign is set - he likely doesn't even know that Lamm is dead (assuming that Curse of the Crimson Throne has happened). There were many Little Lambs, after all... I'll set up an alias now, since I'm approved - I prefer not to do so until I'm approved, because I might want to reuse the name in the future.


Bil O'Donnel, Male Rogue (Knife Fighter); imprisoned for murder. He cut a man's throat, and was seen leaving the area covered in blood (low WIS, so I think that actually makes sense). It was an open and shut case.


By the way, are we using feats?

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