mdt has it.
You will be waiting a very long time for that "just kidding", I'm not going to try to explain why I said that about fighters, you are still convinced that casters are the end-all be-all, when they can be turned off by the local environment, much less any actions from opposing forces, while the noncasters keep trucking on.
On paper casters are superior to everyone else, but paper is a flimsy thing that goes see-through when you spill grease on it, in actuality if the non-casters fight smart the casters will lose 9 times out of 10. Often times the best solution is to wait for the caster to run out of time, spells only last so long, and once they are gone, the caster is screwed. That patience thing, it is on the side of the normals.
I also like the massive level of hypocrisy in this, the thread is asking about power creep in ultimate combat, a book primarily about non-casters, and you are going on about how casters can't be beaten. Such a delicious dichotomy.
How do you plan to run the casters out of spells, and have them exactly where you want them to be when this event takes place? It won't happen unless the casters are ran by incompetent people, in which case commoners could probably handle them.
PS:The game is not pvp so there is no casters vs noncasters.
...Reading comprehension plox!? I was stating that the fighter could duplicate other classes. I'm not anyone is more powerful than anyone else, the proper use of tactics is the true decider of victory. Killing someone in their sleep is perfectly viable, by the time the wizard is high enough level to get someplace normally considered "safe", the fighter has enough money to get there as well, and all he has to do is be sneaky. Fight dirty or go home.
The biggest culprit of this is the insanely flexible (and aptly-named) fighter, who can fake being several other classes, and unlike the wizard, can do that until the cows come home. Technically he can keep doing it after that, but he's going to get bored eventually.... we don't exactly have warforged here, though some GMs would still allow them, after making them fit a bit better in all aspects.I had to do a double take here.
Fighters are overpowered? First I've heard of that, and honestly, I'm glad someone thinks so.
Who are the fighters imitating? They use int to get skills they still dont do them as well as the other class, and are now giving up something else. A fighter can out ranger a ranger. It can pretend to be one, but I can pretend to be a professional athlete to.
Expecting Core to be equal to Core + Splat is ridiculous, especially in a game with variables that can't be measured in number.
X+Y is always greater than X assuming Y is positive.
It isn't X + Y.
The sum is the build. Lets say there are 20 variables in a build. You can pull these variables from any source you like, but they will total 20.
If you take a little from X and a little from Y, if X and Y are equal it will still come up to 20 variables.
Actually it is. X give you so many options. Y gives even more options.
If I have more options then I am going to be able to do more stuff.If every option was equal, and they did not build upon one another then it would make sense, but since the options are like lego building blocks the kid with the most sets can make the best toys.
@Man in Black: Long story short: no it doesn't. Take a monster, compare it to a properly built fighter equal to it's CR, and then apologize. Fighters don't need magic to win, it just helps a lot in the process. Since I've played several fighters, who have all had very useful skills to the party (only one who took survival, engineering, or stealth...oddly enough), I know first hand that you don't need a billion skill points to be useful out of combat.
Make a will save. The bad guys own you. You as a fighter need magic items in most people's games. If you were to post an example of your fighter without magic items he gets his butt kicked barring dice god intervention, which is not a good idea. The entire community knows this except for you it seems.
Typically archers do around 1d8+15 or so. Also, you step out of line of sight, then the fighter just leaves. A fighter can simply throw powder if he figures out the wizard has gone invisible, he's also likely to have blind fighting, at which point you were better off casting Displacement. Plus, he's probably going to hit.
Furthermore, an archer fighter is just going to hit the wizard with a grappling/trip arrow. The fighter can also delay until the wizard's turn, if the wizard appears to be moving around a corner, the fighter moves to keep the wizard in LoS, then takes his shot. Another good option is to have an item that casts silence. Like an arrow or whatever.
Item that cast silence? In short a GM has to make up an item to keep casters in check. Keep talking. :)
How is the archer moving when it is not his go. Readying an action does not mean you can move as an immediate action. The throwing powder thing only works on objects by RAW, and even if it did now how do you know where to throw it. While you are throwing powder your party is getting own.
One could coat an invisible object with flour to at least keep track of its position (until the flour falls off or blows away).
Nothing quite like provoking attacks of opportunity from an archer.
When did this become possible? You can only threaten with melee weapons.
Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn.
This is more common knowledge stuff.
Expecting Core to be equal to Core + Splat is ridiculous, especially in a game with variables that can't be measured in number.
X+Y is always greater than X assuming Y is positive.
Nope. If Y is 0, then X + Y = X.
You should be using set notation.
Darn you MDT. :)
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Nothing quite like provoking attacks of opportunity from an archer.When did this become possible? You can only threaten with melee weapons.
Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn.This is more common knowledge stuff.
Snap Shot, Ultimate Combat pg. 119.
Snap Shot, Ultimate Combat pg. 119.Nothing quite like provoking attacks of opportunity from an archer.When did this become possible? You can only threaten with melee weapons.
Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn.This is more common knowledge stuff.
I am betting he did not know about that. :)
I am not checking it because I think you know what you are talking about, but this guy is mixing readied actions, and holding actions. He is chasing the wizard around the corner when it is not his turn, from the way I read his post. He thinks low damage will stop concentration checks, and fighters don't need magic. I should probably stop messing with him just because I am bored though. If he gets serious he can post his nonmagical fighter, and see how it does in various AP's. Of course if he has to use any books that were not out when the AP was out.....PS/unrelated:There is a rogue ability called snap shot. Double naming things is not cool.
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Snap Shot, Ultimate Combat pg. 119.Nothing quite like provoking attacks of opportunity from an archer.When did this become possible? You can only threaten with melee weapons.
Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn.This is more common knowledge stuff.I am betting he did not know about that. :)
I am not checking it because I think you know what you are talking about, but this guy is mixing readied actions, and holding actions. He is chasing the wizard around the corner when it is not his turn, from the way I read his post. He thinks low damage will stop concentration checks, and fighters don't need magic. I should probably stop messing with him just because I am bored though. If he gets serious he can post his nonmagical fighter, and see how it does in various AP's. Of course if he has to use any books that were not out when the AP was out.....PS/unrelated:There is a rogue ability called snap shot. Double naming things is not cool.
Snap Shot makes you threaten 5ft with ranged weapons, make AoOs with ranged weapon and your ranged AoOs don't provoke AoOs.
Next in the tree is Improved Snap Shot which makes you threaten 15 ft. and Greater Snap Shot which gives you scaling bonus on damage and critical confirmation with ranged AoOs.
As for doubling names... is that witch a Witch, or just a Wizard in a funky dres? ;)
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Snap Shot makes you threaten 5ft with ranged weapons, make AoOs with ranged weapon and your ranged AoOs don't provoke AoOs.Oh, huh, I didn't read it that carefully. That is power creep. That's strictly better than Point Blank Master, which was already a great feat.
Not exactly.
Point-Blank Master makes ALL your ranged attacks non-provoking, while Snap Shot makes only your ranged AoOs non-provoking.
Also, PBM requires only Weapon Spec, while Snap Shot requires PBS, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus, BAB +6 and Dex 13.
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Snap Shot, Ultimate Combat pg. 119.Nothing quite like provoking attacks of opportunity from an archer.When did this become possible? You can only threaten with melee weapons.
Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn.This is more common knowledge stuff.I am betting he did not know about that. :)
I am not checking it because I think you know what you are talking about, but this guy is mixing readied actions, and holding actions. He is chasing the wizard around the corner when it is not his turn, from the way I read his post. He thinks low damage will stop concentration checks, and fighters don't need magic. I should probably stop messing with him just because I am bored though. If he gets serious he can post his nonmagical fighter, and see how it does in various AP's. Of course if he has to use any books that were not out when the AP was out.....PS/unrelated:There is a rogue ability called snap shot. Double naming things is not cool.
Me? You would be betting wrong if you think I didn't know about it, why do you think I said attack of opportunity? That would just be silly, everyone knows you haven't been able to take advantage of AoOs with bows until UC. Now now, it's called delayed action. Delay your action until their turn, when they move, you move, when they cast, you shoot them. 1d8+23 will cause you to blow your concentration check. No one has THAT high stats.
Were I to actually use anything, again, it would be a ninja, level 10, two-weapon fighting, improved two weapon fighting, point blank shot, rapid shot, vanishing trick, flurry of stars, pressure points, crippling strike. There are very few -characters- much less casters, who can deal with -27 strength (2 attacks base, 2-TWF, 2 flurry of stars, 1 haste, 1 extra attack from the ki pool, 1 rapid shot, so that's 9 attacks, each at -3 strength, so long as they hit), welcome to the floor. Population:you.
Delay your action until their turn, when they move, you move, when they cast, you shoot them
By choosing to delay, you take no action and then act normally on whatever initiative count you decide to act. When you delay, you voluntarily reduce your own initiative result for the rest of the combat. When your new, lower initiative count comes up later in the same round, you can act normally. You can specify this new initiative result or just wait until some time later in the round and act then, thus fixing your new initiative count at that point.
You never get back the time you spend waiting to see what's going to happen. You also can't interrupt anyone else's action (as you can with a readied action).
You're trying to interrupt the wizards turn. You need a readied action to do that, and you can't take the full round move and shoot on a readied action.
But still,i agree with you that wizard is stronger than fighter 1vs1,but that is in balance in PF as every class can beat some and cant some other.For example wizard is stronger than fighter but monk is stronger than wizard and fighter is stronger than monk
I don't see what the monk is supposed to do to the wizard that the fighter cant. A wand of dimension door pretty much negates grapple now.
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But still,i agree with you that wizard is stronger than fighter 1vs1,but that is in balance in PF as every class can beat some and cant some other.For example wizard is stronger than fighter but monk is stronger than wizard and fighter is stronger than monkI don't see what the monk is supposed to do to the wizard that the fighter cant. A wand of dimension door pretty much negates grapple now.
Make will saves probably.
Make will saves probably.But still,i agree with you that wizard is stronger than fighter 1vs1,but that is in balance in PF as every class can beat some and cant some other.For example wizard is stronger than fighter but monk is stronger than wizard and fighter is stronger than monkI don't see what the monk is supposed to do to the wizard that the fighter cant. A wand of dimension door pretty much negates grapple now.
I have a question.
What do all of you think of the Nodachi, specifically as it compares to the Elven Curve Blade?
I in my opinion feel that the Nodachi is a clear example of a small amount of creep, as now there is no reason other than Falcata for a two hand wielder to take EWP.
Just my opinion.
The nature of having more choices will mean that there is more powerful combos. There is no way to release additional material with out there being power creep unless you nerf the new stuff so much that it doesn't matter at all.
It's the nature of the game, I don't know how so many people thought this would be different when Pathfinder came out and they were revelling in the glory of it being different from WOTC's 3.5 stuff.
It's the same thing. People like options. Options mean more synergy. More synergy means more power.
This is on the money. Typically I don't mind it, since well-planned supplements will make the new combos only incrementally better than the old combos, and/or more situational. The problem emerges when the new spells follow the flawed paradigm:
1) To avoid power creep, make new spells highly situational so PCs continue to pick core options;2) Since new spells are so situational, we need to make them excellent at solving that situation.
Combine new spells with prepared casters (or anyone with access to spell mimicry through items, etc.) who do their homework - then those really situational spells can be applied when needed for greatest effect, and dropped in all other cases. Feat and class ability synergies that are a marginal improvement are no big deal, since they can't be cherry-picked or carried around in a scroll case for that time they're exactly needed. To summarize - I think the biggest challenge to avoiding power creep is printing spells that are both exciting and useful while not setting up one-shots capable of destroying specific encounter types.
Not trying to fuel the fire of caster vs. noncaster - my main beef is with Vancian spellcasting in general.
Finally, the biggest problem I have with power creep is CR-scale disconnect. I remember playing in a 3.5 game with a DM who didn't have a really good head for numbers. He was under the false assumption that CRs were comparable between the first and third monster manuals, and wondered aloud (quite vehemently) when we obliterated "challenging" dragons in two rounds but had major trouble with a gloom golem. I may be better than he was at accounting for changes in difficulty scaling, but needing to constantly re-evaluate the CR of any monster I want to use from a book becomes tedious and defeats the purpose of using the book in the first place.
Expecting Core to be equal to Core + Splat is ridiculous, especially in a game with variables that can't be measured in number.
X+Y is always greater than X assuming Y is positive.
Nope. If Y is 0, then X + Y = X.
False, 0 isn't positive. 1 or greater is a positive number. In what world is zero considered a positive number?
False, 0 isn't positive. 1 or greater is a positive number. In what world is zero considered a positive number?Expecting Core to be equal to Core + Splat is ridiculous, especially in a game with variables that can't be measured in number.
X+Y is always greater than X assuming Y is positive.
Nope. If Y is 0, then X + Y = X.
You win a cupie doll, I was wondering if anyone would notice that. :)
I don't see what the monk is supposed to do to the wizard that the fighter cant. A wand of dimension door pretty much negates grapple now.
Monks can Dimension door as well. Wizard also has to pass their concentration check.
Snap Shot, Ultimate Combat pg. 119.Nothing quite like provoking attacks of opportunity from an archer.When did this become possible? You can only threaten with melee weapons.
Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn.This is more common knowledge stuff.I am betting he did not know about that. :)
I am not checking it because I think you know what you are talking about, but this guy is mixing readied actions, and holding actions. He is chasing the wizard around the corner when it is not his turn, from the way I read his post. He thinks low damage will stop concentration checks, and fighters don't need magic. I should probably stop messing with him just because I am bored though. If he gets serious he can post his nonmagical fighter, and see how it does in various AP's. Of course if he has to use any books that were not out when the AP was out.....PS/unrelated:There is a rogue ability called snap shot. Double naming things is not cool.
Me? You would be betting wrong if you think I didn't know about it, why do you think I said attack of opportunity? That would just be silly, everyone knows you haven't been able to take advantage of AoOs with bows until UC. Now now, it's called delayed action. Delay your action until their turn, when they move, you move, when they cast, you shoot them. 1d8+23 will cause you to blow your concentration check. No one has THAT high stats.
Were I to actually use anything, again, it would be a ninja, level 10, two-weapon fighting, improved two weapon fighting, point blank shot, rapid shot, vanishing trick, flurry of stars, pressure points, crippling strike. There are very few -characters- much less casters, who can deal with -27 strength (2 attacks base, 2-TWF, 2 flurry of stars, 1 haste, 1 extra attack from the ki pool, 1 rapid shot, so that's 9...
Caster level 20+14 stat bonus + 4 concentration check. 38 bonus to concentration check. You are also assuming all those attacks hit or that you even get the chance to attack, please don't. That still does not help your fighter argument.
I don't trust your rule-fu so now I have to see if anyone can tell me what pressure points are. Is it a class feature, a feat?Here is why I don't trust you:
Crippling Strike* (Ex): A rogue with this ability can sneak attack opponents with such precision that her blows weaken and hamper them. An opponent damaged by [n]one[/n] of her sneak attacks also takes 2 points of Strength damage.
If this was intended to be a multi-use per round ability rogues would catch a lot less flack than they do. Yet it has never been seen as a strong point.
Now Pressure Point may allows you to do this more than once, but I don't have a quote for it so I have to assume it doesn't.It would actually be viable in this case to take 10 levels of rogue, and then switch over to fighter or ranger as an example, assuming a 20 level campaign of course.
edit:fixed math.
I don't see what the monk is supposed to do to the wizard that the fighter cant. A wand of dimension door pretty much negates grapple now.Monks can Dimension door as well. Wizard also has to pass their concentration check.
Not with a wand, but they do have to retrieve the wand, or hope it is already out. Of course if he got grappled once.......
The monk can dimension door, but he might not know where the caster wizard/sorcerer went.
You win a cupie doll, I was wondering if anyone would notice that. :)False, 0 isn't positive. 1 or greater is a positive number. In what world is zero considered a positive number?Expecting Core to be equal to Core + Splat is ridiculous, especially in a game with variables that can't be measured in number.
X+Y is always greater than X assuming Y is positive.
Nope. If Y is 0, then X + Y = X.
I knew it, but I wasn't about to get drawn into a math debate(not my best area), and someone tried to tell me that once, but was not joking.
I don't see what the monk is supposed to do to the wizard that the fighter cant. A wand of dimension door pretty much negates grapple now.Monks can Dimension door as well. Wizard also has to pass their concentration check.Not with a wand, but they do have to retrieve the wand, or hope it is already out. Of course if he got grappled once.......
The monk can dimension door, but he might not know where the caster wizard/sorcerer went.
Move action: draw wand. It doesn't require an opposed grapple check anymore.
Standard action: use wand. Doesn't require a concentration check.
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That's at 20th level though. Here: let's describe the damage of a 20th level fighter.
Deadly aim: +12
Point-blank shot +1
Weapon training +5
weapon spec +2
Imp Weapon spec +2
+5 weapon
frost/corrosive/shock/flaming- +4d6
+6 Str
bracers of archery +1
So, 1d8+34+4d6. Statistically 53.5 points/shot. Meaning that your +38 concentration check still fails most of the time. Were I a fighter, I'd probably pay up for a large-category bow, giving 2d6, instead of 1d8, increasing the average DC by 2.5, meaning you would need 17 to pass your check (21 is the average of 6d6, +34=55), the odds are not in your favor.
That's at 20th level though. Here: let's describe the damage of a 20th level fighter.
Deadly aim: +12
Point-blank shot +1
Weapon training +5
weapon spec +2
Imp Weapon spec +2
+5 weapon
frost/corrosive/shock/flaming- +4d6
+6 Str
bracers of archery +1So, 1d8+34+4d6. Statistically 53.5 points/shot. Meaning that your +38 concentration check still fails most of the time. Were I a fighter, I'd probably pay up for a large-category bow, giving 2d6, instead of 1d8, increasing the average DC by 2.5, meaning you would need 17 to pass your check (21 is the average of 6d6, +34=55), the odds are not in your favor.
If you are readying an action you are most likely aiming at the caster, and eyeballing him. He knows what is up so he takes cover if possible. If not possible he can cast a spell, take the hit, then cast a quickened spell.
There is also the issue of winning initiative. There is also the issue that even if the player can't bypass this tactic when it is used against him it only means archers(not fighter specific) can handle a caster under in certain groups. At best it can be said that archery is the power source here, not the fighter. Since most casters have defensive spells in place as NPC's or PC's I don't see this working in an actual game on a consistent basis.
Of course if he got grappled once.......
Just tossing this out there as another consideration (I'm totally on your side in this debate) but, I've never seen a wizard that was as high level as you are guys are talking about, who wasn't immune to being grappled because I've never seen a high level wizard without a all day flight via Overland Flight and a Ring of Freedom of Movement unless they were specifically made hard to find, even in a planar metropolis (AKA DM fiat). Even then they can just MAKE one.
Just tossing this out there as another consideration (I'm totally on your side in this debate) but, I've never seen a wizard that was as high level as you are guys are talking about, who wasn't immune to being grappled because I've never seen a high level wizard without a all day flight via Overland Flight and a Ring of Freedom of Movement unless they were specifically made hard to find, even in a planar metropolis (AKA DM fiat). Even then they can just MAKE one.Of course if he got grappled once.......
We were not level specific, and I agree that it is hard to get to a wizard, but my point was that if the wizard is being played in such a manner that you got to him once then you can probably do it again.
I don't think the "walk up and grab" that is being envisioned will happen at my table. My wizard would definitely have a ring of freedom of movement on.
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That wizard is still making an incredibly difficult concentration check, so what if he casts the lower level spell, it's not going to be a very powerful spell, and he is still eating a high-level spell slot for that quickened spell. You didn't even bother showing the math on how you got a 38 concentration check. You're right, I'm not using the class to power this, because it applies to all non-casters vs. the supposedly invincible casters.
Your wizard is likely to lose the initiative, against any of the non-casting classes, every last one of them uses dex for something vital to their class (AC in most cases), so they will have a pretty good dex, and they are more likely to take improved initiative. When the caster needs an average of 17 to beat the noncaster, I'm pretty sure that it's in their favor.
I always picture everyone as having rings of freedom of movement, especially by 20th level, there's no reason not to have one. Though, we would end up finding out, the archer fighter will use the trip, and grapple maneuvers at least once, and these will be made at range.
Yes, one sneak attack. Every time a ninja/rogue punches through your DR, with a sneak attack, you have been hit, with one sneak attack. Every time. Not just once ever, that's like saying the paladin can only pick one weapon or one mount in their -entire- life time. That's not how it works.
That wizard is still making an incredibly difficult concentration check, so what if he casts the lower level spell, it's not going to be a very powerful spell, and he is still eating a high-level spell slot for that quickened spell. You didn't even bother showing the math on how you got a 38 concentration check. You're right, I'm not using the class to power this, because it applies to all non-casters vs. the supposedly invincible casters.
Your wizard is likely to lose the initiative, against any of the non-casting classes, every last one of them uses dex for something vital to their class (AC in most cases), so they will have a pretty good dex, and they are more likely to take improved initiative. When the caster needs an average of 17 to beat the noncaster, I'm pretty sure that it's in their favor.
I always picture everyone as having rings of freedom of movement, especially by 20th level, there's no reason not to have one. Though, we would end up finding out, the archer fighter will use the trip, and grapple maneuvers at least once, and these will be made at range.
Yes, one sneak attack. Every time a ninja/rogue punches through your DR, with a sneak attack, you have been hit, with one sneak attack. Every time. Not just once ever, that's like saying the paladin can only pick one weapon or one mount in their -entire- life time. That's not how it works.
Actually I did show the math, and since casters are single stat dependent and wizards specifically get bonus feats they can have a very high initiative. Most of them do so they can go first to buff the party or debuff bad guys. Why would a caster not try to be the super initiative guy?
The fighter still has to bypass displacement and mirror image at the least. Most wizards/sorcerer are hard to kill because they are hard to hit. Once you can hit them things go downhill. Every table is a little different, but if your game world assumes this is a common tactic(trip/grapple from range) then there is a feat that lets a caster's HD count toward his CMD. Most likely he is still in trouble, but a lot less trouble, and being prone does not interfere with spell casting. Sundering the spell component pouch would be a good idea though, which is why I always gives my wizards 2 of them. Sorcerers just dont have to worry about it.
We were not level specific, and I agree that it is hard to get to a wizard, but my point was that if the wizard is being played in such a manner that you got to him once then you can probably do it again.I don't think the "walk up and grab" that is being envisioned will happen at my table. My wizard would definitely have a ring of freedom of movement on.
No doubt. If I knew before hand that I was going to fight an archer (and I have Prying Eyes and minions scouting ahead for me so its highly likely) then I'd cast Control Weather and laugh when he can't even make any ranged attacks. But even if I was caught by surprise, the one thing he would never be able to do to me is grapple me.
Every time a ninja/rogue punches through your DR, with a sneak attack, you have been hit, with one sneak attack. Every time. Not just once ever, that's like saying the paladin can only pick one weapon or one mount in their -entire- life time. That's not how it works.
You got to prove it. The "rogues sucks" threads would disagree. There are more than a few around here.
edit:part of me wants you to be correct.|
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Every time a ninja/rogue punches through your DR, with a sneak attack, you have been hit, with one sneak attack. Every time. Not just once ever, that's like saying the paladin can only pick one weapon or one mount in their -entire- life time. That's not how it works.You got to prove it. The "rogues sucks" threads would disagree. There are more than a few around here.
I think those people are probably crazy.
No, you didn't say how you got those stats, 20+14 stat+4 feats isn't plausible math, getting a +14 from one stat bears showing a break down. For example: the fighter has a +14 from dex, 18 base, +2 racial, +5 over 20 levels, +5 from a book, +6 from an item. That gives him a +13 though, so he'd have to take a species with a +4 to dex, just to get a +14 from that stat. That said, even with your crazy caster-stat, you still are needing 17+ to make your roll when I shoot you while you cast.
Every time a ninja/rogue punches through your DR, with a sneak attack, you have been hit, with one sneak attack. Every time. Not just once ever, that's like saying the paladin can only pick one weapon or one mount in their -entire- life time. That's not how it works.You got to prove it. The "rogues sucks" threads would disagree. There are more than a few around here.I think those people are probably crazy.
No, you didn't say how you got those stats, 20+14 stat+4 feats isn't plausible math, getting a +14 from one stat bears showing a break down. For example: the fighter has a +14 from dex, 18 base, +2 racial, +5 over 20 levels, +5 from a book, +6 from an item. That gives him a +13 though, so he'd have to take a species with a +4 to dex, just to get a +14 from that stat. That said, even with your crazy caster-stat, you still are needing 17+ to make your roll when I shoot you while you cast.
You still assuming the auto-hit. It ain't that easy.
Why am I going to break the math down to that level if you know how I am getting it? Now if you said you had no idea how I got those numbers then that is a good reason for a breakdown. oops I was off by one, so its a 13.
As an example I need to know how you are assuming you are going to hit this caster, know the caster is not relying on AC for defense most likely.
At the very least you need to get past displacement and mirror image.
I have to go now, but I will be back later.
Funny, I don't feel particularly inspired by Ultimate Combat -- Oh wait, you said creep, not creeps. :P
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You still assuming the auto-hit. It ain't that easy.
Why am I going to break the math down to that level if you know how I am getting it? Now if you said you had no idea how I got those numbers then that is a good reason for a breakdown. oops I was off by one, so its a 13.
As an example I need to know how you are assuming you are going to hit this caster, know the caster is not relying on AC for defense most likely.
At the very least you need to get past displacement and mirror image.I have to go now, but I will be back later.
Permanent arcane sight, the wizard will be glowing with a bunch of different auras, the images won't be. Displacement doesn't work when the fighter has improved precise shot, which by 20th, he would be out of otherwise useful feats, and would have probably taken that. He will probably miss on a 1, or some other small number, so I'm pretty sure he's going to hit, even invisibility doesn't particularly work, as having a permanent see invisible is even cheaper. Darkness won't help, because of goggles of darkvision, or another permanent darkvision spell.
When declaring large numbers (those being above10 in this system) you should show your work, it's good practice for when you are in a game anyway, and you don't have to do it on the spot like you would in an actual game.
Have you managed to thwart the wizards ability to walk around a corner and cast spells unmolested yet?
Have you managed to thwart the wizards ability to walk around a corner and cast spells unmolested yet?
Why wouldn't you simply follow the wizard around the corner?