Some points here:
Readied actions don't preclude movement. You can ready a standard action:
"I move and shoot when the wizard is about to cast a spell."
Or,
Delay until right before the wizard, move to a position where the wizard can't easily move into cover...you can still move every round as you cast a spell.
A Stilled Mislead is at worst a Spot check to see that you are casting. DC 15+ Spell level. Stilled spells are still spellcasting, and can be seen as such. They allow you to ignore armor % penalties.
Fog, etc can be moved around or through.
Quickened spells, unless you have Rods or Metamagic bonus as a generic wizard, are going to be VERY low level and not get you out of danger.
The fighter can buy potions as cheap as anyone.
A fighter can generally do enough damage in one round to take out a wizard. The only thing that might save a wizard is miss chances...and the effective miss chances are temporary in nature.
I don't believe a wizard is going to be effective against a lot of monsters in those first conditions, either.
A wizard hit by a swarm can't make concentration checks, I believe? At the least he's taking damage...10 + 2x Spell level + damage to cast, please!
An underwater foe can't be targeted by spells without a specific feat, and a mage underwater can't cast at all without water-breathing active. Summoning a monster gets you something far weaker then what is attacking you...and there is a round of delay while it happens.
Overland flight is only useful with the room to use it in. And an archer doesn't care.
Rings of Freedom of Action aren't really affordable until 12th+ level, I believe?
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A wizard preparing specifically to take down an archer, IF he has the spell library to do it (also anything but a given) will probably win.
Of course, this will then leave him hideously vulnerable to non-archers, so there's a tradeoff. A standard adventuring wizard will NOT have such a setup, because it will get him killed or make him useless.
But an archer preparing specifically to take down a wizard is going to be a very dangerous foe. People beside wizards can prepare too, you know?
Kais, you're also severely underestimating that Will Save vulnerability. If he can stay alive 3 rounds and get off 3 Quickened Charm Persons, odds are you just lost.
Also, just because you shoot an arrow at someone, doesn't mean it sticks in him. You'd have to use a tanglefoot bag...that would stick.
Also, just use Dust of Dispelling in a powder head on your arrow. Hits him, poof, antimagic shell around the wizard. Proceed to terminate.
I love A-M shell.
===Aelryinth
also dex 20 is plausible at level 1.
Not if you are an Aamisar (remember this is how you fight Supernatural Darkness, because you didn't choose blindfighting)
And not if you are also going to have-
-A really high CON score (remember you said you fight high CR swarms by standing them in them, so you'll be taking a lot of HP and CON damage)
-A high STR score (remember, you are good at swimming, fighting with a spear, and have a good CMB at low levels to escape grappling- not to mention doing decent damage with the bow)
-A decent INT score (remember, you said most fighters have more than 2 skill points- and you aren't human)
-A decent WIS score (unless you never want to make a Will save, because hell, you don't even have Iron Will on your feat list).
So what point buy are you using again? And you use monster races...
Okay, so I will say Fighters are okay in 50 point buy, when everyone else assumes 20. And we'll let you use any monster race in any splat book, when 95% of campaigns and PFS doesn't let them in.
Yeah, I think I'm going to agree with AMIB on this one, your fighter can do anything and everything that is in any book. I think it's pointless to continue with you any more.
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I'm working around the will saves with concentration checks, if he never gets to cast, I never make a will save.
Also: allow me to solve this issue of the spell only targeting you, ergo it can't be added to a potion/item/etc. http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/seeInvisibility.html#see-invisibi lity
Instant, personal, you, still on at least 3 items.
That was another hypothetical scenario not based around any specific type of fighter, that was based around level 5, that technically wouldn't work to begin with, most creatures that use deeper darkness, can use it more than once, unlike the Aasimar. Dex 20 is still plausible at level 1, just not with Aasimar or a few other races.
You're an adventurer? That means you probably have a bounty on your head. Not an adventurer? And I quote: "At the end of the day, so long as there are two people in the world, someone is going to want someone dead."
Uh..duh. Comes with being an adventurer.
Those spells provide cover bonuses, which is ignored utterly.
Um...none of those spells provide cover. Did you mean concealment?
Congratulations, you are surrounded in something that screws only you. I can see you casting those spells! I have Arcane Sight! I SEE MAGIC! You will not fool me with a clumsy spell like that.
Ah, I see. So you're mundane reliant fighter who uses NOT non-detection, magical bows and arrows, cloaks or resistance, dimensional anchor, and now he is using a WIZARD spell (that he can't even use unless someone invents a new ring or something) to fight the wizard. And you want to submit that as evidence that fighters can do things that matter while being capable of reliance on MUNDANE things? ...huh? You keep flip-floping around. Pick one. Is he capable of killing wizards with mundane items or not? Can he kill a wizard with HIS OWN CLASS FEATURES?
Hardly, I'd want most of this stuff as an archer anyway, it pays to be prepared.
You mean "It costs every resource I'll ever have to be prepared."
Anyway. I'm done. You're using a 20th level fighter to struggle against a 13th level wizard. Seriously, I haven't even begun talking about 8th and 9th level spells and the only 7th level spells I mentioned was simulacrum and control weather. I'm seriously just reading off of my old characters prepared spells and using his actual minions.
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You are a creature yes? The spell targets you yes? Then it's still plausible.
The creator of a potion needs a level working surface and at least a few containers in which to mix liquids, as well as a source of heat to boil the brew. In addition, he needs ingredients. The costs for materials and ingredients are subsumed in the cost for brewing the potion: 25 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster.All ingredients and materials used to brew a potion must be fresh and unused. The character must pay the full cost for brewing each potion. (Economies of scale do not apply.)
The imbiber of the potion is both the caster and the target. Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions.
The creator must have prepared the spell to be placed in the potion (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires.
Material components are consumed when he begins working, but a focus is not. (A focus used in brewing a potion can be reused.) The act of brewing triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting until the character has rested and regained spells. (That is, that spell slot is expended from the caster's currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.) Brewing a potion requires 1 day.
Man, Fighters vs Wizards inspires a lot of creep!
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I ignore concealment as well. Same feat.
Are we having the same conversation? I've said I'm using magic with this build since the beginning. I did say, you can get really far without magic, but that was on the level 5 thing, by level 20 it's suicide to not have magic of some form, but you should also be using mundane items where it's cheaper.
Prepared for anything! That's how this should work, you shouldn't have things left over if you are prepared to take on the world, and if you do, then clearly the GM needs to step up his world.
How does your fighter find his mark in a crowded city?
If he knows them or doesn't know them? Start making Gather Information checks while the wizard waits a day to cast Contact Other Plane. If the wizard doesn't actually KNOW his mark, scrying is useless, and the mark might have scrying defenses, too. Intimidate checks help when shaking up informants.
How does your fighter trail his mark to another plane?
Buy a plane shift spell from a caster? How does a caster do this if he can't scry a foe?
How does your fighter deal with ambushes while he's vulnerable?
You're going to have to define 'vulnerable'. He could be wearing glamered armor and have his favorite weapon in a hand of storing.
"vulnerable" to a wizard means low on/out of spells, i.e. useless wizard.
How does your fighter deal with a maze laden with illusions?
Make will saves like everyone else, and stick to the right hand wall. The wizard might have true seeing, probably not detect illusion, but has a better will save.
How does your fighter deal with a large, pitch-dark area?
Pop a continual flame torch? Wear darkvision goggles, or pay for permanent darkvision? The wizard probably does the same thing.
How does your fighter travel underwater or on a plane made entirely of fire?
Get an amulet of adaptation, or a potion of water-breathing? It takes an 8th level spell or so to be immune to hostile planes, so the wizard probably does the same thing.
How does your fighter defeat a villain he can't be seen fighting or harming?
Ambush him?
The wizard might be invisible, which only has people looking for spellcasters who can turn invisible...which isn't going to be the fighter there.
How does your fighter deal with a brainwashed or simply misguided foe?
Strike for subdual damage?
The wizard might dominate or charm..but that only works on a couple unless he's actually devoting major spell slots to mass suggestions or something in his standard spell load.
How does your fighter deal with a villain who's protected by the (innocent) city guard?
Pound his way through the innocent dupes without killing them, and fight the mastermind, OR distract the guards and face him alone...or just thread arrows through the mass because he's just that damn good?
The wizard basically has to move the guard out of the way, because he can't target a villain with cover from the guard, unlike an archer.
How does your fighter pick a disguised foe out of a crowded room?
Spot checks, like anyone else?
And unless the disguised foe is an idiot, detects aren't going to work for the wizard. And wizards don't invest in Spot.
How does your fighter deal with an antagonist that completely overpowers him in a fight?
Like a reasonable person, runs away by assorted means?
Which is basically what the wizard does.
How does your fighter deal with any challenge he can't riddle with arrows?
By being a lateral thinker and realizing not every solution requires arrows, just like every solution doesn't require magic?
How does a wizard deal with any challenge he can't just cast a spell to solve?
===Aelryinth
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You are a creature yes? The spell targets you yes? Then it's still plausible.Man, Fighters vs Wizards inspires a lot of creep!
The creator of a potion needs a level working surface and at least a few containers in which to mix liquids, as well as a source of heat to boil the brew. In addition, he needs ingredients. The costs for materials and ingredients are subsumed in the cost for brewing the potion: 25 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster.All ingredients and materials used to brew a potion must be fresh and unused. The character must pay the full cost for brewing each potion. (Economies of scale do not apply.)
The imbiber of the potion is both the caster and the target. Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions.
The creator must have prepared the spell to be placed in the potion (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires.
Material components are consumed when he begins working, but a focus is not. (A focus used in brewing a potion can be reused.) The act of brewing triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting until the character has rested and regained spells. (That is, that spell slot is expended from the caster's currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.) Brewing a potion requires 1 day.
Eh, so I have it made into a pair of goggles, or add it to the goggles with see invisibility on it. Not a huge change, it's a bit more expensive, but still plausible.
Prepared for anything!As long as that thing is murdering a guy. Otherwise, not so much!
Ahem! Let me make this clear: FIGHTER. That said, a guy like this can probably do a lot more than kill people. Depends on his remaining stats and what he did with his skill points. He'd need a 15 int or so to do all of that, he has 20 levels in skills, I bet he could do all kinds of stuff.
@Aelryinth: I had no intention of answering that, because I thought the answers were pretty obvious. This isn't nearly as hard as people make it out to be.
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Eh, so I have it made into a pair of goggles, or add it to the goggles with see invisibility on it. Not a huge change, it's a bit more expensive, but still plausible.So are these goggles in Ultimate Combat?
RAW states you can make items using any spell. I'm not sure why people take the examples in the back of the book as THE ONLY ITEMS THAT EXIST IN THE GAME. For Iomedae's sake, there isn't a potion or scroll list.
Edit:Also, how is it you don't have that book yet? It's like 10$ for a digital copy. Also, pretty much the only magic items in it are for the gunslinger, though I can think of a few uses for some of those scopes. One of which is SEE INVISIBILITY!
Literally this is Giacomo's monk all over again.
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Edit:Also, how is it you don't have that book yet? It's like 10$ for a digital copy. Also, pretty much the only magic items in it are for the gunslinger, though I can think of a few uses for some of those scopes. One of which is SEE INVISIBILITY!You totally missed the point of my post.
And you only payed attention to one part of mine.
your 20th level fighter has 880,000 gold worth of wealth
darkvision is 12,000 gold
see invisibility is 18,000 gold
arcane sight is 60,000 gold
adding the other 2 costs +50% of the cheaper abilities
60,000 +18,000 +27,000
105,000 that is 10% of you wealth
your effectively +9 longbow costs 162,000 for magic, 300 for masterwork and the price of the composite bow, a +3 strength bonus composite bow costs 440 gold pieces
162,740 + 105,000 = 267,740. just the goggles and the bow take up more than 25% of your total average 20th level wealth. higher strength bonuses cost 110 gold pieces more per point of strength bonus. arrows cost a gold piece for every 20 arrows you buy.
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your 20th level fighter has 880,000 gold worth of wealth
darkvision is 12,000 gold
see invisibility is 18,000 gold
arcane sight is 60,000 gold
adding the other 2 costs +50% of the cheaper abilities
60,000 +18,000 +27,000
105,000 that is 10% of you wealth
your effectively +9 longbow costs 162,000 for magic, 300 for masterwork and the price of the composite bow, a +3 strength bonus composite bow costs 440 gold pieces162,740 + 105,000 = 267,740. just the goggles and the bow take up more than 25% of your total average 20th level wealth. higher strength bonuses cost 110 gold pieces more per point of strength bonus. arrows cost a gold piece for every 20 arrows you buy.
Or you could build these items yourself, for at most 1/2 the cost of the items, it costs a feat and a few skill points. Also: it's only 100gp for each additional point of strength on a bow. The cost is actually why I don't have a +13 from my dex, I simply didn't think I'd have enough money to pull this off with a book, but some heavily cheapened other items are right up my alley. Also: abusing the item creation rules by adding alignment restrictions and skill restrictions makes it even cheaper, I end up paying a mere 30% for most of the stuff I build.
Man, Fighters vs Wizards inspires a lot of creep!
Man, creep inspires a lot of Fighters vs Wizards arguments. :p
Or you could build these items yourself, for at most 1/2 the cost of the items, it costs a feat and a few skill points. Also: it's only 100gp for each additional point of strength on a bow. The cost is actually why I don't have a +13 from my dex, I simply didn't think I'd have enough money to pull this off with a book, but some heavily cheapened other items are right up my alley. Also: abusing the item creation rules by adding alignment restrictions and skill restrictions makes it even cheaper, I end up paying a mere 30% for most of the stuff I build.your 20th level fighter has 880,000 gold worth of wealth
darkvision is 12,000 gold
see invisibility is 18,000 gold
arcane sight is 60,000 gold
adding the other 2 costs +50% of the cheaper abilities
60,000 +18,000 +27,000
105,000 that is 10% of you wealth
your effectively +9 longbow costs 162,000 for magic, 300 for masterwork and the price of the composite bow, a +3 strength bonus composite bow costs 440 gold pieces162,740 + 105,000 = 267,740. just the goggles and the bow take up more than 25% of your total average 20th level wealth. higher strength bonuses cost 110 gold pieces more per point of strength bonus. arrows cost a gold piece for every 20 arrows you buy.
crafting them for half cost won't change your wealth by level in most cases. you are likely selling several items for half price to make the item. which results in the same net wealth, and i'm pretty sure there isn't a DM who literally hands out all the treasure in coins, nor the most desirable items. and crafting the item requires the investment of skill ranks, 2 or more feats, and you must accurately roll the check, which uses an applicable craft skill in place of spellcraft. problem is that you keep taking a -5 penalty for every prerequisite you fail to meet and intellegence isn't even a tertiary stat for you.
you didn't start 20th level with 880,000 gold pieces in raw cash, you collected treasure over the course of 20 levels. and less than 10% of that treasure at best is raw cash.
and please, show me a real build. so we can tear it apart. we only have snippets. we want the complete stat block. you must supply the whole enchilada, not just the tortillas.
no alignment, skill or class restrictions are allowed to be used to cheapen costs for items that are going to be used by characters of the intended role anyway.
And you only payed attention to one part of mine.No, I paid NO attention to your post.
But TOZ, Kais didn't threadjack just so you'd ignore him all willy-nilly.
And yet, he's going to be better at those situations then a wizard has unless the wizard
a) has the appropriate spell in memory to do better
b) has the appropriate spell in a book
c) has the time to memorize it
d) or has the time to make an item to do the same thing.
The wizard can summon something? The fighter can hire someone...probably for less money.
the fighter can always invest a few skill points into ancillary skills if he wants to.
A fighter doesn't NEED sneak attack damage, thank you. That's for sneaks. He needs surprise and one round of doing damage. Let the rogue rely on dice. And you don't need stealth for surprise...you need surprise for surprise.
And we aren't comparing SKILL situations with a rogue, we're comparing them with a wizard.
A wizard is 100% situational in effectiveness. If he doesn't have the right spells in memory at that moment, he's useless. If he doesn't OWN the right spells, he's doubly useless. He has dumped Charisma, no social skills, no physical ability whatsoever, and he's reliant on buffs that can be dispelled or fade away at any moment. His ability to go out and buy spells is no different then a fighter's to go out and buy some potions. The vast majority of a wizard's skill points are dumped into Int skills which have no utility outside of combat, but which he is expected to have.
The fighter has no such expectations on skills, because that's not his job. And it doesn't take many ranks in a skill to be surprisingly effective at it, and 1 rank allows you to Aid Another.
When you cater to the wizard style of play, i.e. unlimited spells, unlimited time, sure, wizards are freaking GODS. You've given them an unlimited toolbox.
In a normal campaign, that's just not the case.
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As for vulnerability, he's certainly better off then the wizard. Without armor, weapons and buffs, he's got more HP, can grapple well, and a good fort save. The wizard that wakes up inside an A-M shell, silence sphere, or what have you with an assassin making a death attack has a bit of a problem.
===Aelryinth
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But TOZ, Kais didn't threadjack just so you'd ignore him all willy-nilly.And you only payed attention to one part of mine.No, I paid NO attention to your post.
I'm not the one who considers spellcasters to be the end-all-be-all, and I wouldn't be arguing against people who think they are, if they weren't so absolutely certain that they are right, when I know they aren't. TOZ and I have never exactly seen eye-to-eye on things to begin with, while I am sorry for the threadjack, people considering that "WIZARDS ARE THE GREATEST CLASS EVAR" is a bit of a pet-peeve of mine, because they are wrong, and I can prove them so.
@Shuriken Nekogami: I've never seen a GM put that much effort into a 20th level game before. When I do, I'll concede some semblance of that point. That said: What I showed before still has some 3-4 feats left, he could afford filling those slots with item creation feats if he came up short.
The feat itself gives a +2 to my craft skills, and making most items is DC10+ at most 20, which means, if I have a 10 int (which isn't likely) I still need a 5 to pass the roll (20 skill points,3 class skill 2 master craftsman)and that's a 20th caster-level item, which I will be making almost none of. Even if I am building something that level, I can always hire on 2 blokes for the duration of building that item, and charge them for the experience of working with a grandmaster craftsman.
You have the vast majority of the build an archer archetype fighter, with the aforementioned feats, and the aforementioned items, it's not that hard to extrapolate from there. Besides, it's not exactly like the wizards are providing their builds. 15, 4th levels spells my butt, you'd need a int/cha in the 80s for that
RAW states you can cheapen those items using alignment restrictions and skill restrictions, the implication is to keep it out of the hands of people of opposing alignment.
i intended to use it as another word for fool. and fool is neither a curse word nor a racial slur. heck, it's not even really profanity. if i were really pissed off about the situation, i would be using far harsher words.
For sure, synonyms are wonderful for changing the flow of one's writing. This probably stems from my own reading comprehension. I understand that calling someone a fool isn't a curse or racial slur, but I don't limit insults to only including those two categories of words.
Bleh, that last sentence I just wrote has a tone that I don't care for, feels more stern than I'm actually feeling at the moment.
Then why the crap are you arguing about 20th level if you don't have any experience with it?
Cuz yelling about theory until you're blue in the face is fun.
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Wizards aren't that great! Fighters can be good too, if they sink a ton of gold into emulating some wizard spells!
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@Shuriken Nekogami: I've never seen a GM put that much effort into a 20th level game before. When I do, I'll concede some semblance of that point.Then why the crap are you arguing about 20th level if you don't have any experience with it?
You misunderstand me, when I play in a 20th level game, most of the GMs I play with that are willing to run such monstrosities, don't care what the players buy, or how they build so, long as the end result is legal. Simply because building each character can very quickly end up a game of the player sitting in front of the GM and asking "Can I have this?" GM responds yes/no/only if, then the player asks another question. This process continues with several questions each level.
@Ettin:10k gp really is a ton of gold at 20th level isn't it? The only spells I'd probably want to duplicate are flight, truesight, silence.
I can try though, it's the thought that counts, even if it only counts to me.
Well, at least your heart is in the right place I guess.
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You're describing extremely generous house rules that were allowed to your character in order to make the game more entertaining. Every good GM does this, but it's a lot of extra work to do it well, and the GM wouldn't have to do this if classes were better balanced.
It goes to the main reason that balance is important: fixing class imbalance between party members is a tremendous headache for the GM.
It's not a house rule to have a player come in at a higher level with their money, it's right here:http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/gamemastering.html
Furthermore, I am coming in with most of my money in items, just as it says I should, it's just that I built all of those items with my own two hands, at considerable cost in time. That's no house rule, that's the GM deciding how it is being handled, if I wasted the resources to have crafting feats, then I should get the return on my investment, and he can houserule that while I can make items, I can't put restrictions on them.
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It's not a house rule to have a player come in at a higher level with their money,It is a houserule to allow a player to come in with triple wealth-by-level and fairly extreme custom items.
It's more than triple WBL(30%X3=90% of item cost), there is only a few items that are custom (just the goggles and arrows, which I won't have that many of to begin with), and it's not a houserule, it's the item creation rules. They are written in the books, ergo I can use them.
And I thought arguing about politics was sad.
i don't think any of us really played a serious level 20 game. the highest i have ever gotten was level 18. about 4 years ago in a 3.5 shackled city campaign. the character i played was essentially a skill monkey with arcane utility spells to cover the skills he couldn't.
but most of the time, i cannot exceed 10th, let alone 15th. and 11th-15th are even rarer than 10th.
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i don't think any of us really played a serious level 20 game. the highest i have ever gotten was level 18. about 4 years ago in a 3.5 shackled city campaign. the character was essentially a skill monkey with arcane utility spells to cover the skills he couldn't.
I've been as far as 16 with a character I played from 1st, it was 3.5, and we ended up stopping because one of the players had this brilliant idea to attack an epic campaign, which in all fairness those characters were powerful enough to handle (I mean, we walked into the city of Dys, and the guy who owned it was eventually forced to give us what we wanted just so he could get rid of us) the campaign, assuming we didn't run into any clerics. Which naturally we ran into a cleric who killed us all with Blasphemy.
I was in a Pathfinder group that made it to about 14 before one of the players decided he wanted to run really badly... I still think he's deranged for wanting that, and I ended up leaving his game, because the group suddenly forgot they were adventurers, instead thinking they were a pack of ninnies, and the GM had screwed me over a few too many times.
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Or you could build these items yourself, for at most 1/2 the cost of the items, it costs a feat and a few skill points. Also: it's only 100gp for each additional point of strength on a bow. The cost is actually why I don't have a +13 from my dex, I simply didn't think I'd have enough money to pull this off with a book, but some heavily cheapened other items are right up my alley. Also: abusing the item creation rules by adding alignment restrictions and skill restrictions makes it even cheaper, I end up paying a mere 30% for most of the stuff I build.
Except you can't make them yourself. Mastercraftsman can't be taken twice, and no craft is going to let you make bows and magical goggles.
Your idea of superior strategy... and lets be honest, what you think is your, the players', superior gaming ability, is to somehow know the day and time that a wizard will be out and about and inexplicably unprepared.(using your 2 skill points per level to buy Diplomacy/ gather information)
You are then going to sneak up on him (using your 2 skill points per level to buy stealth). hit him with a magic device of dimensional anchor (using your 2 skill points per level for use magic device), make a ranged trip attack against him, AND stick a silence arrow in him (which you made with your 2 skill points in craft: bowyer/fletcher),activate your boots of haste AND drink your fly potion apparently all while he stands there slack jawed at the sheer awsome that is you. You are then going to proceed to hold an action to shoot him if he casts a spell, use your Spell craft (another of your 2 skill points per level) to figure out that he ISN"T just calling you the son of a motherless kobold in draconic, and then break the delay and readied action rules because you are just that cool, and use your other held action to follow him if he heads to cover and THEN disrupt his spell.
You are the only one who's going to have any permanent spells, or gods forbid, a contingency in place. You will automatically win initiative (because wizards are apparently pumping iron for massive pecs these days) ANd proceed to make the wizard burn through all of his prepared spells by using up your daily allotment of boots of haste and your whatever of fly. You will then peer into the wizards skull, see how low he's running on spells, re requip your fly/dimensional anchor/haste item and re engage when he's "run out" but you are inexplicably, not down any of the resources you used to engage and escape.
I'm doubt if its possible for anyone to be good enough at the game to win a fight with a 20th level fighter against a 20th level wizard, but i KNOW i'm not seeing anything that would let you do that with what you offered here. Your "strategy" consists of doing the implausible, followed by doing the impossible, and STILL requires that your opponent is not taking standard operating procedure precautions.
Playing weak classes is NOT what makes someone a good player. Being a good player is what makes someone a good player. Strategy, tactics, innovation WITHIN THE RULES is what helps someone win a fight and creates fond memories with your fellow gamers for "remember the time we...." That can help you have fun, but attempting to munchkin the item creation rules will quickly ruin it. Trying to play by one set of rules while everyone else plays by the book will ruin it before it starts.
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What are you talking about? Master Craftsman let's you take both craft arms and armor, and wondrous items. Your skill level counts as a caster level for purposes of taking those feats.
You haven't been paying very much attention to this, I'm going to have more than 2 skill points a level pretty much guaranteed. I tend to see somewhere on the order of 6 skill points a level. Not including if I build an item that gives me Int and wisdom. Why would I drink a magic potion to let me fly, when I could take celestial armor or wings of flying instead? Why wouldn't I also take the potion when I was sneaking up to him?
There are so many flaws in your argument, I honestly don't feel like pointing them all out to you. I mean, let's be honest here, there are 3 flaws in your first sentence, much less the rest of that textwall. I would be here all night tearing that thing apart.
I'm doing this all by the book, only imagine the words by the book written in 60 foot high steel reinforced concrete. Read the Core Rulebook, from back to front, then do it two more times so that you will remember it better. Then you can come back and try to make a decent argument.
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What are you talking about? Master Craftsman let's you take both craft arms and armor, and wondrous items. Your skill level counts as a caster level for purposes of taking those feats.
Master Craftsman
Your superior crafting skills allow you to create simple magic items.
Prerequisites: 5 ranks in any Craft or Profession skill.
Benefit: Choose one Craft or Profession skill in which you possess at least 5 ranks. You receive a +2 bonus on your chosen Craft or Profession skill. Ranks in your chosen skill count as your caster level for the purposes of qualifying for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats. You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level. You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item . The DC to create the item still increases for any necessary spell requirements (see the magic item creation rules in Magic Items). You cannot use this feat to create any spell-trigger or spell-activation item.
Normal: Only spellcasters can qualify for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats.
-You can't use Craft: bowyer to make a handy haversack or a suit of armor.
You haven't been paying very much attention to this, I'm going to have more than 2 skill points a level pretty much guaranteed.
-Right. You get a large int, a high strength, a high dex, and good con.
I tend to see somewhere on the order of 6 skill points a level.
So you play fighters with a 14 int?
Not including if I build an item that gives me Int and wisdom. Why would I drink a magic potion to let me fly, when I could take celestial armor or wings of flying instead? Why wouldn't I also take the potion when I was sneaking up to him?
I haven't seen any explanation for how you know where he is to sneak up on him besides your allegedly superior gameplay.
There are so many flaws in your argument, I honestly don't feel like pointing them all out to you. I mean, let's be honest here, there are 3 flaws in your first sentence, much less the rest of that textwall. I would be here all night tearing that thing apart.
No, you wouldn't be. You'd be making vague aspersions on other people that you can't back up through demonstration the same way you make vague claims to gaming superiority that you can't back up through example
I'm doing this all by the book, only imagine the words by the book written in 60 foot high steel reinforced concrete. Read the Core Rulebook, from back to front, then do it two more times so that you will remember it better. Then you can come back and try to make a decent argument.
I've already pointed out your errors on
-held actions
-delayed actions
-Magic craftsman
-The attack of opportunity rules.
You have done NOTHING to prove, suggest, imply, or even hint at me being the one who needs to reread the rules here.