Anyone have suggestions for a home campaign I will be joining in two weeks?
The other players are a wizard (CG), a paladin, a cleric of civilization (LN), an uber strong half-ogre barbarian, a Lion Shaman elf druid, and a 60-year-old human rogue character with high charisma. Yes, it is a large group of friends and acquaintances. We played 3.5 before switching to Pathfinder, taking a break and then reforming.
The racially unmodified abilities I rolled were 15, 14, 14, 13, 13 and 8. I have no interest or skill in playing a full spellcaster, and generally prefer gish hybrids or versatile combatants. In this situation, though, I also want to find a niche that will complement, rather than compete with, the other party members if possible. I am more of a roleplayer than a power builder, but don't like to be useless and like to have a unique style or flavor.
I have tentatively told the group I would play a middle-eastern-type bard or monk. The setting, created by the GM, contains such a region (human) although we will probably never see it. The GM has forbidden any use of guns.
As far as my past experience with Pathfinder, I previously played a reincarnated barbarian. I have a reputation of taking supposedly suboptimal builds (like a dwarf bard or gnome barbarian) and making them functional and interesting characters that my fellow players still tell stories about. I am currently playing a gnome Inquisitor (wonderful) in Pathfinder Society.
Bard.
Most characters are add force to the party.
A well set up bard is a force multiplier.
I vote bard as well. Maybe coordinate with the rogue's player so skills don't overlap too much.
The rogue hopes to be the "face" and, I think, skill monkey of the party. Between the rogue, cleric and barbarian, diplomacy and intimidate are especially well covered. I'm unsure about bluff.
BTW, what level are you talking about?
BTW, what level are you talking about?
Level 1.
The rogue hopes to be the "face" and, I think, skill monkey of the party. Between the rogue, cleric and barbarian, diplomacy and intimidate are especially well covered. I'm unsure about bluff.Is the wizard covering knowledges?
I do not know. He does speak quite a few languages, but that didn't cost him any extra skill points. He's bright.
I also know that the cleric will favor ranged attacks (light crossbow) and the barbarian has a variant of monkey grip that he will use to wield an oversized weapon. The rogue's physical statistics (strength, dexterity and constitution) have been penalized due to his age, but he's received the age bonus to his mental statistics. The rogue doesn't plan on being much of a presence in combat.
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I also vote for Bard. Great addition to the team and can do plenty of things other than be the face - so there will be no issue with the Rogue filling that role.
Between songs and spells and enough skill points to fill in anything the team is missing, he is very helpful and fun to play. Whether you want to be an archer or melee it all works. The game we play the Bard actually went with Treantmonks slightly odder choice - the Whip Bard, which was a lot of fun! Fascinate this, grease them, whip trip that guy - he was having a ball, and with other players around doing damage he just played battlefield control...though he could just as easily switch weapons to do damage too.
Maybe a psionic class if allowed? If not, a high dexterity bard or monk, to do the roguey things the old guy is, well, too old to do. In your situation I would play either a monk (probably a mobility/defense focused one) or a bard (acrobatic, maybe the new archeologist?).
Also, a mid-eastern magus would be cool. You will help in any battles, against mooks, magic resistant monsters and damage resistant ones too!
Paying a bard will probably overshadow the rogue for the role of party face. A bard makes a much better face then a rogue any day. With a wizard, cleric, druid and paladin you have a lot of spell casters so the bard spells are not going to be that important. Now the bluffs will be useful in a party that large, but is that all you want?
In this situation I would go for the monk. Play a human monk with your racial bonus into STR and go scouting and stealth. This will also give the elderly rogue someone to back him when he is by himself trying to scout.
If you are open to other classes a Ranger may also work well. I would suggest a switch hitter for versatility. From the looks of it your party is lacking in ranged combat. Most paladins and barbarians usually focus on melee. A switch hitter would give good combat, stealth and some spell casting ability.
I fifteenth the bard. The paladin, barbarian, lion shaman, and any summons will love you.
Perhaps he's a crafter, wandering the world for new trinkets.
Perhaps he's a necromancer, like the dirge bard. Inspire Courage on your hordes of zombies? Nice.
Perhaps he's a wisened drifter with ranks in almost every profession.
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Battle Herald. It's like a bard, but a little more diverse. Take Arcane Duelist and the free Arcane Strike. You get lots of good buffs; and I'd concentrate on abilities that remove "difficulties" on party members.
You're also a good fighter; and the Arcane Spell Failure is NBD since you are barely a caster.
So Cav 1, then Bard 4, then Herald. I'd go human, and fight with a Halberd. Str: 17, Chr, Con 14, Int 8, Wis and Dex 13
The other (probably more powerful) option is Urban Ranger; great ranged damage, awesome perception, and you can trapfind for the party (among many other skills). Probably an Elf would suite those rolls best; 17 Dex with 12 Con, 13 Str, 15 Int, 8 Chr, 14 Wis. You can act as the primary in a group looking to do the perception tactic feat; and take boon companion to toss another animal companion in mix.
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Given the amount of melee characters your party seems to have, Bard really does seem like it'd be what would make the combats go the easiest though if that's what you want to play it'd be up to you. the spell casting will help shore up some of the groups melee heavy weaknesses and you'd have a little back up healer or something if needed.
Bard, but maybe an archetype. If you want a hybrid, arcane duelist or magician are interesting. But Inspire is gonna be good if you choose to keep it.
I recommend you cruise the bard archetypes till something jumpas out at you.
I second the recoendations for bard and magus.
Magus (with Ultimate Combat) gives you two archetypes that combine really well: bladebound and sensei.
How optimized are the characters of your fellow players? It is important, in my experience, that your optimization level be fairly close to that of the other players.
I'd suggest not stepping on the rogue's toes with a bard. Also, I'd caution on the force multiplier aspect of the bard as well with 7 players.
The GM is new to me so I'm uncertain what his style will be. He's actually new to Pathfinder but familiar with 3.5 and 4.0. I am pretty sure he is not a simulationist though.
My fellow players are mostly new to Pathfinder or poor at optimizing. The exception would be the player of the half-ogre barbarian, who is always heavily optimized and quite powerful.
The rogue, in particular, is sup-optimal so I really don't want to overlap him. I think I could easily outshine him with a bard or other class, and I don't want to do that. As with me, his focus is more on style than substance, but I have more experience at optimizing such a character.
As for what I personally would like to play, I initially did want to play a bard or monk, but as I look over the bard class and archetypes I'm daunted by the complexity and the bookkeeping that will be necessary. I haven't done more than skim over the monk class thus far.
Does your GM allow the college-trained fighter option?
He probably would I suspect.
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I still vote for bard, there are class archetypes that would not walk on your rogue probably, like dirge bard, etc.
However, a non-AC ranger would also "buff" the party with FE bonuses, or an inquisitor to fill in the gaps also probably would work well. If you consider yourself a more experienced player, there are a lot of variables to keep track of with judgments,etc that keep it interesting(at least from what I can tell sitting behind the screen). A sorcerer could also do well in this group if you have a mind to play a caster type, since you have a wizard and druid to fill in any gaps you might have.
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I can understand you not wanting to overstep your friend's "thing", specially if party's face is the ONLY role he will be playing. If you roll a bard it would be hard not to, but...the group benefits of inspire courage (and the likes) for a party this big would be amazing.
What i would recommend than, as it was already mentioned, would be the battle herald. Its a pretty solid buffer and front-liner.
Another wizard or sorcerer would also be great, there is not such thing as too many spellcasters...
A cleric or oracle would also be good additions. Both characters could open some interesting RP options with the party's cleric. Oracles are awesome and there is a new cleric archetype in UM that trade some core abilitys for inspire courage, i belive its called the "Evangelist".
I still vote for bard, there are class archetypes that would not walk on your rogue probably, like dirge bard, etc.
I very much like the idea of a creepy Dirge Bard, primarily for flavor reasons, but by choosing that class I would be overlapping with the half-ogre barbarian, who is invested into intimidation. I don't think he'd like that I could outperform him in that area.
I am still reading and pondering the different suggestions.
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In a 7 man party, chances are you are walking on somebody's schtick, even if only a little bit. There are only so many core concepts to go around.
If you decided to play a dirge bard, you could write songs about how many people the half-ogre has torn in two. It would be hard for him to object if his name is on everyone's lips in conjunction with ripped apart bodies and enemies shaking in fear.
You didn't say what type of wizard your party had, but a Stormborn sorcerer is also a lot of fun.
In a 7 man party, chances are you are walking on somebody's schtick, even if only a little bit. There are only so many core concepts to go around.
I notice that the Sensei Monk archetype -- which can inspire courage and competence like a bardic performance as well as grant monk abilities temporarily to others -- seems to be compatible with the Qinggong Monk archetype. If that is so that would seem a versatile monk and buffer. Am I overlooking something?
In a 7 man party, chances are you are walking on somebody's schtick, even if only a little bit. There are only so many core concepts to go around.I notice that the Sensei Monk archetype -- which can inspire courage and competence like a bard as well as grant monk abilities temporarily to others -- seems to be compatible with the Qinggong Monk archetype. If that is so that would be a versatile monk and buffer. Am I overlooking something?
Nope. That's how it works.
However, the true strength of the Bard is when they can Inspire Courage, cast Good Hope, and cast Haste (using a metamagic rod of quicken, lesser) all in one round. That's like a multiplier of force multipliers.
just for curiosty, who is the ranged combatant(bow and arrows?
The cleric wishes to be a ranged combatant and has a light crossbow as her deity's favored weapon. The barbarian is melee, the paladin doesn't have the "Ultimate Combat" book so will be melee, and the wizard will probably not be melee. I don't know about the druid and the rogue.
A few hours ago before I came back to this site and saw the most recent posts, I finally settled on a quirky idea that tickled my imagination. I'm going to try an arcane duelist bard from the desert area of the GM's homebrew world who once mined metals before joining a nearby militia and working for them as a smith. (The GM already told the party that we will all know each other at the campaign's start because we belong to the same militia.)
Through official Paizo traits and racial feature swaps, my bard will at first level be able to use a net, prehensile scorpion whip (also augmented with "Animate Rope" spell), two-handed pickaxe, cestus and shortbow plus full casting in light armor. Treeant's bard guide inspired some of those weapon choices. The weapons will give him interesting tactical flexibility at low level although he's probably suboptimal overall and the light armor limit from levels 1-9 will be challenging. By avoiding Dervish Dancer, which I had originally thought I would choose, I'll be able to keep my bardic performance buffs available to the rest of the party, and the Arcane Duelist perks will offer some utility versus enemy spellcasters and also add a little bit of buffing options.
Here's another option... How about a mystic theurge? The tremendous flexibility and low raw power is an interesting challenge as a player.
That's an intriguing idea, and I probably would have seriously considered it if I hadn't already had my brainstorm. It sounds too close to a full spellcaster for comfort though. However it wouldn't hurt me to branch out of my comfort zone.
I think I may try a college-educated fighter someday. It offsets one of the things I dislike most about pure fighters.
Now that there's a cleric that gets inspire competence, I think that'll be a better fit for the party than an actual cleric. Take Glory as your 1 domain. Be a buff-o-matic with a sword. It's like a better bard :).
It would be. A cleric is a better anything usually. :) The archetype you're referring to is the Evangelist, and it sounds fun.
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. It really helped me to decide, and it gave me a lot to ponder. I probably would have ended up with a monk, ranger or Dervish Dancer bard without your intervention. The pieces for this odd character have finally come together in my head and I'm excited to see how it'll play out.