Avatar - the Last Airbender series


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The Exchange

Cartigan wrote:
LazarX wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:
The 'Benders' we learn over the course of the series are broken up into four 'elemental' manipulating factions - water, earth, fire, and air -
Only three, by the beginning of the series, the Air Nomads are extinct as a culture and save for one, as a people as well. This will probably not change that much in the new series as it seems that Katara and Aang will at most only leave one child to the world.
You forgot the gift of the ancient lion turtle. He retaught Aang the true power of the Avatar - the ability to grant or remove the ability to bend any element.

Energy Bending...

The Exchange

Cartigan wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Doesn't it make sense that if pretty much the whole world is changing so rapidly, that fashions would change along with it?
No. otherhwise the Fire Benders would have changed first when they industrialized

There were cultural changes to the fire nation. Soon after the beginning of the hundred years war the fire nation 'outlaws' or discourages dancing to music. This may be carried through the culture as a stifling of change to fasion.

Aang teaches some fire nation children several traditional fire nation dances that were popular when he last visited the fire nation (a century earlier). - Ep. The Headband

What fasion changes do occur are to the millitary uniform - the shoulder spikes become less pronounced. - Ep. Siege of the North (part 1).


LazarX wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:
The 'Benders' we learn over the course of the series are broken up into four 'elemental' manipulating factions - water, earth, fire, and air -
Only three, by the beginning of the series, the Air Nomads are extinct as a culture and save for one, as a people as well. This will probably not change that much in the new series as it seems that Katara and Aang will at most only leave one child to the world.

All air nomads can air bend. All of them.

That means literally every descendent from Aang will be able to air bend.

Won't take too many generations to start building the nomads back up.


yellowdingo wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Doesn't it make sense that if pretty much the whole world is changing so rapidly, that fashions would change along with it?
No. otherhwise the Fire Benders would have changed first when they industrialized

There were cultural changes to the fire nation. Soon after the beginning of the hundred years war the fire nation 'outlaws' or discourages dancing to music. This may be carried through the culture as a stifling of change to fasion.

Aang teaches some fire nation children several traditional fire nation dances that were popular when he last visited the fire nation (a century earlier). - Ep. The Headband

What fasion changes do occur are to the millitary uniform - the shoulder spikes become less pronounced. - Ep. Siege of the North (part 1).

So in a century, a couple of things make minor changes. In LESS tha 100 years, COMPLETE cultural transformation.

Right, good evidence.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Cartigan wrote:
LazarX wrote:
jemstone wrote:


I don't dispute the mechanics and engineering and science - I simply don't understand the necessity for a dramatic s+&@ in clothing and fashion styles. The Fire Kingdom had 100 years of technological advancement over the other nations, and still stuck with their traditional garb. Part of the "feel" of Avatar is the costuming, and the change just seems very jarring.

But then again maybe it's supposed to?

Again, think of how rapidly fashion styles change in our century... from the 00's to the 10's and the 10's to the 20's and 30's. Also remember that Republic City is a fusion of all 3 Bender cultures that's a heck of a culture dynamic. Think how rapidly fashion changed in Japan afer contact with the West, especially again in our century.
But why does fashion suddenly change drastically from what they wore for centuries. Before the Fire Benders decided to take over the world, they got along with the other nations perfectly fine. Look at the flashbacks from the previous bending lifetimes - everyone dressed the same. There is literally no reason for everyone to suddenly dress like they stepped out of the 20s.

They were changing in Aang's day as well. This is shown when Sooka points out that the Northern Water Tribe's info on Fire Nation uniforms was fatally out of date.

We actually don't know that much about how the 3 main bending nations related to each other before Sozin's War. We know that there was a conquerer type in the Earth Kingdom by the name of Chin, but we dont' know how far he got before his fateful meeting with Kiyoshi.

But remember pre-tech socieities tend to change a lot slower than tech societies once a critical mass has acheived. And when you mix Fire Nation tech with Earth Kingdom saavvy, you're talking serious critical mass.

The Exchange

ProfessorCirno wrote:
LazarX wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:
The 'Benders' we learn over the course of the series are broken up into four 'elemental' manipulating factions - water, earth, fire, and air -
Only three, by the beginning of the series, the Air Nomads are extinct as a culture and save for one, as a people as well. This will probably not change that much in the new series as it seems that Katara and Aang will at most only leave one child to the world.

All air nomads can air bend. All of them.

That means literally every descendent from Aang will be able to air bend.

Won't take too many generations to start building the nomads back up.

Unless you think the Sand benders are Airbenders gone to ground...Given they use a whirlwind to power their sand yachts.

The Airbenders are funny buggers - all air benders are monks (or monks in training) But someone is out there having children who can become airbenders. I dont think it is a bunch of men in their north and south air temple and a bunch of women living in the east and west air temples.

unless the boy monks are breeding with the girl monks - to get new monks - there are no air nomads.

The Exchange

Cartigan wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Doesn't it make sense that if pretty much the whole world is changing so rapidly, that fashions would change along with it?
No. otherhwise the Fire Benders would have changed first when they industrialized

There were cultural changes to the fire nation. Soon after the beginning of the hundred years war the fire nation 'outlaws' or discourages dancing to music. This may be carried through the culture as a stifling of change to fasion.

Aang teaches some fire nation children several traditional fire nation dances that were popular when he last visited the fire nation (a century earlier). - Ep. The Headband

What fasion changes do occur are to the millitary uniform - the shoulder spikes become less pronounced. - Ep. Siege of the North (part 1).

So in a century, a couple of things make minor changes. In LESS tha 100 years, COMPLETE cultural transformation.

Right, good evidence.

I'll let you know once I see the whole series but off in the Earth kingdom we have the Dai li who are a cultural Police brainwashing out any changes to culture in the Earth Kingdom city of Ba Sing Se.

Its not a complete cultural transformation over a hundred years of the fire nation for fasion to stall and dancing to be 'discouraged'. Adolf Hitler comes to power in the thirties and suddenly the unacceptable 'jewish' and 'negro' influences are exterminated from society in a matter of fifteen years. The entire system has collapsed and its all Leather pants with suspenders and little blond haired blue eyed kids.

Lets look at the episode 'The Beach' where the Firebenders all take a holiday. The clothes worn by beachgoing Zuko, Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee are different from the Fasions worn by the very young Twins who are now old ladies keeping an eye on Azula.

Cultural Tradition seems to be a powerful controlling influence - along with the Avatar who believes the Four Nations 'must remain four nations - forever apart'. That is pretty much why Water Tribes wear Blue - Earth Kindoms wear green, and Fire Nation wear Red/orange.


The thing I always wondered when looking at the world map they show is if it is supposed to be a distorted hemisphere or a really distorted globe.

If it's the whole globe, then is the west coast of the Fire Nation really a short sail from the east coast of the Earth Kingdom? Wouldn't that kind of put the Eastern and Western Air Temples... sorta close?

If it's just one hemisphere, then there's another entire hemisphere for some Air Nomads (on sky bison) to have escaped to at the beginning of the war.

And who knows what else is over there? Could've made a whole Book of Air season out of that, whether you find Air Nomad refugees or just search for them in vain and find wisdom instead. I guess it's too late for that, though.

The Exchange

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Kaer Maga Janitorial wrote:

The thing I always wondered when looking at the world map they show is if it is supposed to be a distorted hemisphere or a really distorted globe.

If it's the whole globe, then is the west coast of the Fire Nation really a short sail from the east coast of the Earth Kingdom? Wouldn't that kind of put the Eastern and Western Air Temples... sorta close?

If it's just one hemisphere, then there's another entire hemisphere for some Air Nomads (on sky bison) to have escaped to at the beginning of the war.

And who knows what else is over there? Could've made a whole Book of Air season out of that, whether you find Air Nomad refugees or just search for them in vain and find wisdom instead. I guess it's too late for that, though.

I suspect the map to be grosely distorted.

My map in Progress is Here

Some changes I made since then - The Southern Water Tribe camp is directly south of the Northern Water Tribe Capital - right on the meridian. (Seen in Ep. 4 - The Kyoshi Warriors; Zuko's Map of the Avatar's Trail)
Ba Sing Se should be right over against the mountains near the serpent's pass - making it much larger.

The Exchange

Fire Nation Dance Party!!!


yellowdingo wrote:
Fire Nation Dance Party!!!

Very nice!!

Carry on!

-- C.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
yellowdingo wrote:


Unless you think the Sand benders are Airbenders gone to ground...Given they use a whirlwind to power their sand yachts.

Remember what Toph said during their short-lived beach party? "Not bad, Twinkletoes, but I've been practicing my SandBending." And she makes a model city out of sand.

The Sandbenders were bending earth to move the sand, not air to blow it. Although the results can look very similar, they are very different, Sandbending does not involve the creation of any breezes or wind. But the sand can push the air around by it's presence.


LazarX wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:


Unless you think the Sand benders are Airbenders gone to ground...Given they use a whirlwind to power their sand yachts.

Remember what Toph said during their short-lived beach party? "Not bad, Twinkletoes, but I've been practicing my SandBending." And she makes a model city out of sand.

The Sandbenders were bending earth to move the sand, not air to blow it. Although the results can look very similar, they are very different, Sandbending does not involve the creation of any breezes or wind. But the sand can push the air around by it's presence.

Just like the Swampbenders were actually Waterbenders using the water in the swamp vines to build their enormous Swamp-Golem-Suits.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
jemstone wrote:
LazarX wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:


Unless you think the Sand benders are Airbenders gone to ground...Given they use a whirlwind to power their sand yachts.

Remember what Toph said during their short-lived beach party? "Not bad, Twinkletoes, but I've been practicing my SandBending." And she makes a model city out of sand.

The Sandbenders were bending earth to move the sand, not air to blow it. Although the results can look very similar, they are very different, Sandbending does not involve the creation of any breezes or wind. But the sand can push the air around by it's presence.

Just like the Swampbenders were actually Waterbenders using the water in the swamp vines to build their enormous Swamp-Golem-Suits.

Only one of the swap tribe, the mystic, actually worked that way. He was a bit on the weird side even to the rest of his tribe. The rest were conventional waterbenders.


LazarX wrote:
jemstone wrote:
LazarX wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:


Unless you think the Sand benders are Airbenders gone to ground...Given they use a whirlwind to power their sand yachts.

Remember what Toph said during their short-lived beach party? "Not bad, Twinkletoes, but I've been practicing my SandBending." And she makes a model city out of sand.

The Sandbenders were bending earth to move the sand, not air to blow it. Although the results can look very similar, they are very different, Sandbending does not involve the creation of any breezes or wind. But the sand can push the air around by it's presence.

Just like the Swampbenders were actually Waterbenders using the water in the swamp vines to build their enormous Swamp-Golem-Suits.
Only one of the swap tribe, the mystic, actually worked that way. He was a bit on the weird side even to the rest of his tribe. The rest were conventional waterbenders.

Point still stands, though. ;)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
ProfessorCirno wrote:
LazarX wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:
The 'Benders' we learn over the course of the series are broken up into four 'elemental' manipulating factions - water, earth, fire, and air -
Only three, by the beginning of the series, the Air Nomads are extinct as a culture and save for one, as a people as well. This will probably not change that much in the new series as it seems that Katara and Aang will at most only leave one child to the world.

All air nomads can air bend. All of them.

That means literally every descendent from Aang will be able to air bend.

Won't take too many generations to start building the nomads back up.

It's believed that had to do with several factors.

1. The Air Nomads were the smallest population of them all, and as pretty much all of them were monks they the most spiritually inclined people. Perhaps the ability to bend is something EVERYONE has potentially only in most cases it atrophies and dies out due to lack of the right environment for it to flourish.

2. The nature of element bending is not genetic. Iroh included elements from Water Bending in inventing his lightning deflection technique, and before the age of the Avatar, Bending was done on the unified energy, not segregated to individual elements. The present day separation seems to be more of a cultural origin rather than a mystic one.

3. We don't practically anything about the Air Nomad culture. It's hard to believe that they did not occasionally have children who were born without the bending capability. What did they do in such cases? Throw them off the mountain tops? Send them off to Earth Kingdom orphanages? And why were they called the Air Nomads, when they had at least four major enduring settlements?

4. If at least some of the above were true, future Air Benders need to have nothing to do with Aang's genetics. They just need to be children raised in the right way. I personally thought that if there was going to be a future Air Nation, the most likely genesis would be the air riders of the Mechanist's settlement. Of anyone they seem to be closest to the spiritual zeitgeist of the extinct Air Nomad culture.

The Exchange

Perhaps Sozin's plan to exterminate the other 'benders' was to make the Avatar a Fire nation Citizen no matter what.

The Air Temples exist for the purpose of training Airbenders in their ability to bend. I dont see why the ability to Sand Bend cant be considered Airbending - In exterminating the Air Temple Monks the technique of Airbending has changed to something closer to the ground. A Primitive Air Bending. Toph bends sand like an Earth Bender but Sand benders Bend Sand like Air benders.


Man Cartigan is grumpy even when the discussion isn't about D&D.


yellowdingo wrote:


The Air Temples exist for the purpose of training Airbenders in their ability to bend.

How do you know?

Quote:
I dont see why the ability to Sand Bend cant be considered Airbending

Because it is Earth Bending. Sand isn't air.

Sand benders bend earth in ways unique to their environment - like the swamp benders.

It's actually a sort of simple exercise to figure out what kind of benders they are - what martial art style do the sand benders mimic to bend sand.

The Exchange

Cartigan wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:


The Air Temples exist for the purpose of training Airbenders in their ability to bend.
How do you know?

Because there are no 'families' at the Air Temples And Aang was raised by monks along with other air bender capable children. So they obviously send potential airbenders to the air temples for training. Those who cant are little more than 'Peasants'.

Cartigan wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:
I dont see why the ability to Sand Bend cant be considered Airbending

Because it is Earth Bending. Sand isn't air.

Sand benders bend earth in ways unique to their environment - like the swamp benders.

It's actually a sort of simple exercise to figure out what kind of benders they are - what martial art style do the sand benders mimic to bend sand.

But if the technique uses Air to move the Sand...its Air Bending of Sand, not Earth bending of Sand like the way Toph does it.


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yellowdingo wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:


The Air Temples exist for the purpose of training Airbenders in their ability to bend.

How do you know?

Quote:
I dont see why the ability to Sand Bend cant be considered Airbending

Because it is Earth Bending. Sand isn't air.

Sand benders bend earth in ways unique to their environment - like the swamp benders.

It's actually a sort of simple exercise to figure out what kind of benders they are - what martial art style do the sand benders mimic to bend sand.

But if the technique uses Air to move the Sand...its Air Bending of Sand, not Earth bending of Sand like the way Toph does it.

What Cartigan is talking about is that every bending style in the series is modeled after a specific real world martial arts style. The Sand Benders use the same ridged style as the Earth Benders, and not the more fluid style of the air benders.

The Exchange

Caineach wrote:
What Cartigan is talking about is that every bending style in the series is modeled after a specific real world martial arts style. The Sand Benders use the same ridged style as the Earth Benders, and not the more fluid style of the air benders.

The Technique is a lot like Aang's when they travel on Sand Yacht making the whirlwind. its the same stance Aang uses when he creates a gust of wind while fighting Jet on a tree branch but it uses the repeating pattern of Waterbending like when Katara and Aang create whirlpools in the River to stop the pirate ship from going over the falls.

A really big mystery is in the episode 'Appa's lost Days' when they (the sand benders) actually do something that is like Water bending. To anchor themselves in the Sand when hauling Appa away, they cause the sand to wrap around their feet. I've seen that once in the series: Katara does it in her fight with the Water bending master at the North pole with Ice. Its possible that the Sand Benders are Water benders who have learned to adapt to the 'fluid nature' of sand particles as opposed to the 'fluid nature' of Water particles.


yellowdingo wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:


The Air Temples exist for the purpose of training Airbenders in their ability to bend.
How do you know?
Because there are no 'families' at the Air Temples And Aang was raised by monks along with other air bender capable children. So they obviously send potential airbenders to the air temples for training. Those who cant are little more than 'Peasants'.

You haven't proven anything here. There wasn't enough info in the series for this.

Quote:


But if the technique uses Air to move the Sand...its Air Bending of Sand, not Earth bending of Sand like the way Toph does it.

How do you know they are using air to move the sand? Any bender can cause any element they bend to defy gravity or any other natural opposition.

And no. Just no. Water benders don't bend sand. Water benders bend water. Water. They may mimic the movements of other groups, but that has nothing to do with bending. There is no water in sand. Zero. No one shall water bend it. Ever.

And "making movements like Aang" means nothing. Each bending style are based on actual martial arts schools and are identifiable by people familiar with them. Bending groups may follow slightly difference styles, but they fall in the same school (Toph bends slightly differently than other earth benders)

The Exchange

As you say - each bending type uses a specific school of martial arts - but Sand Bending martial arts is not the same as earth bending martial arts - To the point where Sand Bending Martial Arts has more in Common with Air and Water - depending on what they are doing with the sand at the time.

So As you say An Air bender uses Air bending Martial Arts Style - why are the Sand Benders Using aspects of Air and Water Bending martial Arts? Their style isnt the martial arts used by Earth benders. Therefor they are not.


I don't think you understand what I am saying. I am not saying bending is a martial art. Bending is based on real world martial arts styles. Are you going to tell me Toph isn't an earth bender because she uses a different style than other earth benders?

The Exchange

Cartigan wrote:
I don't think you understand what I am saying. I am not saying bending is a martial art. Bending is based on real world martial arts styles. Are you going to tell me Toph isn't an earth bender because she uses a different style than other earth benders?

Toph uses the 'same' martial arts stances as other 'earth benders' So she is a 'earth bender'. The Sand benders are not using the same martial arts stances as earth benders. They are using martial arts stances seen to be used by Katara and Aang.

So if the martial Arts Stances defines the bending and they are supposed to be earth benders why are they using the martial arts stances of Katara and Aang?

Because they are some how bending Sand with Air in a 'Water' style.


I wash my hands of this ridiculousness.


The way that Sandbenders bend sand seems pretty easily explained as a direct relationship to the nature of sand. Earth is normally a very solid, hard element, requiring a similarly solid and hard stance and demeanor in order to bend that element to the will of the user.

Sand, on the other hand, is not made of the same material is earth is. Well...that's probably a bad way of saying it. A rock is a rock; the molecules in a rock are all very tightly packed, crystalline, and close together, giving a very solid constitution to the overall structure. Sand is very similar to a rock, it's just much, much smaller. It makes sense that Sandbenders would have a style that is more akin to Air or Waterbending, since I think it's reasonable to say that sand, with its very loose, flowy nature, would require a bending style that has adapted to be equally loose and flowy in most respects. There are obviously some exceptions to this, such as Toph's sandbending of the miniature Ba Sing Se. An earthbender must come to see sand as simply a mass collection of very tiny bits of earth, very similar to individual droplets of water, that can coalesce into a greater whole. It doesn't change the fact that, in the end, sandbenders are still bending rocks. They're just bending lots and lots of miniscule rocks instead of huge, 100+ pound boulders. It's also logical to assume that if you're bending a great many small grains of sand in the shape of a vortex, those many small grains are going to be pushing an awful lot of air around with them.

If it helps to think of it in a different way, imagine spinning a straw in a glass to make a vortex of water. The straw is still solid, having a nature not at all like the water, but the movement of the straw through the liquid forces a reaction from that liquid that draws it into a vortex form. If you think of air as a liquid, just with an even less solid nature, forcing many particles of sand through that medium is equally likely to "stir" the air into that vortex, resulting in a sand tornado of sorts.


Phillip0614 wrote:

The way that Sandbenders bend sand seems pretty easily explained as a direct relationship to the nature of sand. Earth is normally a very solid, hard element, requiring a similarly solid and hard stance and demeanor in order to bend that element to the will of the user.

Sand, on the other hand, is not made of the same material is earth is. Well...that's probably a bad way of saying it. A rock is a rock; the molecules in a rock are all very tightly packed, crystalline, and close together, giving a very solid constitution to the overall structure. Sand is very similar to a rock, it's just much, much smaller. It makes sense that Sandbenders would have a style that is more akin to Air or Waterbending, since I think it's reasonable to say that sand, with its very loose, flowy nature, would require a bending style that has adapted to be equally loose and flowy in most respects. There are obviously some exceptions to this, such as Toph's sandbending of the miniature Ba Sing Se. An earthbender must come to see sand as simply a mass collection of very tiny bits of earth, very similar to individual droplets of water, that can coalesce into a greater whole. It doesn't change the fact that, in the end, sandbenders are still bending rocks. They're just bending lots and lots of miniscule rocks instead of huge, 100+ pound boulders. It's also logical to assume that if you're bending a great many small grains of sand in the shape of a vortex, those many small grains are going to be pushing an awful lot of air around with them.

If it helps to think of it in a different way, imagine spinning a straw in a glass to make a vortex of water. The straw is still solid, having a nature not at all like the water, but the movement of the straw through the liquid forces a reaction from that liquid that draws it into a vortex form. If you think of air as a liquid, just with an even less solid nature, forcing many particles of sand through that medium is equally likely to "stir" the air into that vortex, resulting in a sand tornado of...

Exactly!

(They do Sandbending, which is a subset of Earthbending. Sand is just small particles of earth, really...)

-- C.

The Exchange

Psiphyre wrote:
Phillip0614 wrote:

The way that Sandbenders bend sand seems pretty easily explained as a direct relationship to the nature of sand. Earth is normally a very solid, hard element, requiring a similarly solid and hard stance and demeanor in order to bend that element to the will of the user.

Sand, on the other hand, is not made of the same material is earth is. Well...that's probably a bad way of saying it. A rock is a rock; the molecules in a rock are all very tightly packed, crystalline, and close together, giving a very solid constitution to the overall structure. Sand is very similar to a rock, it's just much, much smaller. It makes sense that Sandbenders would have a style that is more akin to Air or Waterbending, since I think it's reasonable to say that sand, with its very loose, flowy nature, would require a bending style that has adapted to be equally loose and flowy in most respects. There are obviously some exceptions to this, such as Toph's sandbending of the miniature Ba Sing Se. An earthbender must come to see sand as simply a mass collection of very tiny bits of earth, very similar to individual droplets of water, that can coalesce into a greater whole. It doesn't change the fact that, in the end, sandbenders are still bending rocks. They're just bending lots and lots of miniscule rocks instead of huge, 100+ pound boulders. It's also logical to assume that if you're bending a great many small grains of sand in the shape of a vortex, those many small grains are going to be pushing an awful lot of air around with them.

If it helps to think of it in a different way, imagine spinning a straw in a glass to make a vortex of water. The straw is still solid, having a nature not at all like the water, but the movement of the straw through the liquid forces a reaction from that liquid that draws it into a vortex form. If you think of air as a liquid, just with an even less solid nature, forcing many particles of sand through that medium is equally likely to "stir" the air into that vortex, resulting

...

Sand is a fluid...that functions like a viscous fluid in large volumes.


If my back didn't hurt enough to distract me, that would give me a headache. I wish you would stop.

Silver Crusade

most likely all of the elements have 'sub'element bending. You can say that water benders can also be called ice benders or mist benders (all actually water but different stages), or plant benders or blood benders, or healbenders? (whatever that's called). Firebending has lightning and I believe I saw steambending in a season 3 episode. Earthbending obviously has crystalbending and metalbending, and i'd say that sandbending falls under earth. Not exactly sure if airbending has any subelements though. I can't even think of what that would be. thunderbending? sonicbending? dunno.


Firebender can generate heat lightning but I don't recall ever seeing them bend steam.

Silver Crusade

Cartigan wrote:
Firebender can generate heat lightning but I don't recall ever seeing them bend steam.

yeah, it was on the episode where they have the flashback with Roku and Firelord Sozin. When the volcano exploded & Sozin shows up, he's shown sucking the volcanic steam up and shooting it out of his fingers.

The Exchange

sirmattdusty wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
Firebender can generate heat lightning but I don't recall ever seeing them bend steam.
yeah, it was on the episode where they have the flashback with Roku and Firelord Sozin. When the volcano exploded & Sozin shows up, he's shown sucking the volcanic steam up and shooting it out of his fingers.

I noticed that...Wouldnt that be Airbending? Or is it Earth Bending given the contents of the Volcanic Gas? Or are we going for Water bending of Steam?


Cartigan wrote:
Firebender can generate heat lightning but I don't recall ever seeing them bend steam.

Aren't all their steampunk contraptions... well uhm... steam?

And isn't lightning, the official energy of air?

Personally I think sandbending is related to air more than earth. Pushing a sail with that much sand would require a new sail in about three minutes. The swamp-benders too seem to be air, at least in that they are mimicking an airboat, but maybe that is just a personal interpretation. Toph struggles to even recognize things in the sand and likens the sandbenders to 'twinkle-toes'

Also by definition nomads, would not be tied to any one area. They have temples in the same way most RL nomads have permanent or at least seasonal locations. It was the temples taken out by the fire nation, and the implication is they took out the rest of the nomads as well. but we see lots of refugees so they could be mixed in somewhere. D'oh in Serpent's pass we see lot of refugee air benders!

Spoiler:
Who moved all the bodies in Aang's old temple into one room? huh?!? answer me that! Someone still survived.... dun dun Dun!

FWIW air=bog wah, fire=northern shaolin, water=tai chi, earth=hung gar, but not being an expert on hung gar or bog wah I cannae tell what style sand benders are mimicking.

yeah, I am just joking about that official air thing... :)

I dinnae have cable or even TV, is the new series out yet?

Silver Crusade

yellowdingo wrote:
sirmattdusty wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
Firebender can generate heat lightning but I don't recall ever seeing them bend steam.
yeah, it was on the episode where they have the flashback with Roku and Firelord Sozin. When the volcano exploded & Sozin shows up, he's shown sucking the volcanic steam up and shooting it out of his fingers.
I noticed that...Wouldnt that be Airbending? Or is it Earth Bending given the contents of the Volcanic Gas? Or are we going for Water bending of Steam?

it was Sozin the Firelord, not Avatar Roku bending steam. Sozin can't bend air or water.

The Exchange

So Lightning bending.
"Iroh explains to his nephew the essence of lightning and how a Firebender can come to engender it. Lightning, or the "cold-blooded fire" as some call it, is a pure expression of the elemental art and completely without aggression, contrasting with the other forms of Firebending. Much like his sister Azula, it is precise and deadly and performing lightning requires a peace of mind.

Iroh continues with his lecture. Positive yang energy and negative yin energy must be separated, creating an imbalance, and only a select few Firebenders can separate the energies. When the different energies recombine to restore the balance, they come crashing back together."

The Exchange

Curaigh wrote:


** spoiler omitted **

To answer your spoiler...

Spoiler:
It's been listed in some of the Avatar games and such, at least one airbender managed to survive the assault on the air temples and lived out her days in exile/striking fire nation folks from the mountains... basically like a ghost or somesuch. I remember reading that on one of the wikias of characters and she was listed due to being in some nickelodeon stuff. Of course, not in the series, but... that's the only way to explain something like that.

Oh yeah and...

Spoiler:
Explosive Runes!


yellowdingo wrote:
Sand is a fluid...that functions like a viscous fluid in large volumes.

I defer to Merriam-Webster in disagreeing. To quote (emphasis mine):

"Definition of SAND
1
a : a loose granular material that results from the disintegration of rocks, consists of particles smaller than gravel but coarser than silt, and is used in mortar, glass, abrasives, and foundry molds"

I would further reply by saying that while I agree sand IS fluid, meaning that its' particles move easily in relation to each other without losing mass and responds easily to pressure (yet again, Merriam-Webster), that still doesn't make sand A fluid in the sense of being a liquid. It's still just lots and lots of very tiny rocks.


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But if all these other benders are somehow secret airbenders, then why is the show titled "The LAST Airbender" then?

But one thing alone tells me that sandbending isn't a form of airbending beyond any question. Toph does it. And last I knew, she had no airbending talents whatsoever.


Jason Ellis 350 wrote:

But if all these other benders are somehow secret airbenders, then why is the show titled "The LAST Airbender" then?

But one thing alone tells me that sandbending isn't a form of airbending beyond any question. Toph does it. And last I knew, she had no airbending talents whatsoever.

Yes, Toph does it. But does she do it the same way as the others? There is more than one way to skin a cat. If one person is making the sand defy gravity, and annother is blowing it with the wind, can people tell the difference?


Caineach wrote:
Yes, Toph does it. But does she do it the same way as the others? There is more than one way to skin a cat. If one person is making the sand defy gravity, and annother is blowing it with the wind, can people tell the difference?

I can! I can!!

Wait, uhmmm no. no I cannot.


I'm not sure strict science applies to bending. We see earthbenders throwing coal around, but isn't coal technically... originally... wood?

Regarding the scene with Sozin and Roku fighting the volcano, the move that Sozin was doing appeared to be him redirecting heat itself. Note that when he does it, the lava in the caldera below him rapidly cools and solidifies. I assume the visible stream from his fingers is supposed to be heat mirage.

Just me guessing, though.

The Exchange

Phillip0614 wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:
Sand is a fluid...that functions like a viscous fluid in large volumes.

I defer to Merriam-Webster in disagreeing. To quote (emphasis mine):

"Definition of SAND
1
a : a loose granular material that results from the disintegration of rocks, consists of particles smaller than gravel but coarser than silt, and is used in mortar, glass, abrasives, and foundry molds"

I would further reply by saying that while I agree sand IS fluid, meaning that its' particles move easily in relation to each other without losing mass and responds easily to pressure (yet again, Merriam-Webster), that still doesn't make sand A fluid in the sense of being a liquid. It's still just lots and lots of very tiny rocks.

You assume Waterbending is about Liquids but They bend Ice as well. So it is the fluid nature that they manipulate.

The Exchange

Kaer Maga Janitorial wrote:

I'm not sure strict science applies to bending. We see earthbenders throwing coal around, but isn't coal technically... originally... wood?

Regarding the scene with Sozin and Roku fighting the volcano, the move that Sozin was doing appeared to be him redirecting heat itself. Note that when he does it, the lava in the caldera below him rapidly cools and solidifies. I assume the visible stream from his fingers is supposed to be heat mirage.

Just me guessing, though.

Which annoyed the hell out of me because despite that episode equating coal with earth - sure its - coal has a water content like mud making it as bendable to a water bender as metal is to an earth bender.

Indeed Sozin must be redirecting heat as a convection current moving particulates as gas.


yellowdingo wrote:
Phillip0614 wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:
Sand is a fluid...that functions like a viscous fluid in large volumes.

I defer to Merriam-Webster in disagreeing. To quote (emphasis mine):

"Definition of SAND
1
a : a loose granular material that results from the disintegration of rocks, consists of particles smaller than gravel but coarser than silt, and is used in mortar, glass, abrasives, and foundry molds"

I would further reply by saying that while I agree sand IS fluid, meaning that its' particles move easily in relation to each other without losing mass and responds easily to pressure (yet again, Merriam-Webster), that still doesn't make sand A fluid in the sense of being a liquid. It's still just lots and lots of very tiny rocks.

You assume Waterbending is about Liquids but They bend Ice as well. So it is the fluid nature that they manipulate.

Did anyone else feel like they just got punched in the brain? I'm going to start billing all my Excedrin Migraine to yellowdingo.

Yes, coal used to be wood. It is now a rock. Called coal.


Honestly, at this point I have to wonder if some of you are continuing this line of thought and debate solely to frustrate Cartigan.

Can we stop this and get back to talking about Aang and Katara and Toph and Sokka and Zuko and Momo and all the rest? 'cause that'd be really swell.

Heck, we could postulate things on Korra.

How about that Waterbending, eh? Must be pretty boss to be an Avatar born a Waterbender!

(And yes, I realize that I had a part in the gross digression based on my curiosity about the various fashion changes, but I knocked it off when we started going way off the rails.)


I'm frustrated that the series title was changed to "The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra" because supposedly there are a few more airbenders than in the previous series. I suspect it has to do with the James Cameron film or property identity in wake of the live-action film, but it's a stupid change.

Do you think there will be any new martial arts styles used in the new series? I suspect that a lot of the non-benders will show off a plethora of new styles, possibly even non-Asian martial arts (though that might be a bit of a long shot; I only think that because of the massive swing in culture).

I am curious as to how a world who is starting to dislike benders is going to function alongside the alleged metal-bending police (not that they'll be able to, but there's lots of speculation).

Also: am I the only one who expects to see Korra mix-n-matching her water/firebending styles, as in, using water movements for firebending and vice versa? I think that would make for a wildly unpredictable fighter, something I suspect is part of her character based on her heritage and situation.

All speculation, but it's fun to think about.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Where did ya'll see info on a new air bender show? Nick?

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