Advice for a three PG party group (RotRL)


Advice


Hi all

we (3 player+master) will start in next weeks the Rise of the Runelords campaign.
We will start from first level, using 30 point buy system.

Two player had already declared the characters:

- Slayer (player is a typical hammer, half orc ranger, inquisitor melee builds... )
- Magus (player is a typical blaster sorcerer, but this time would play a more melee based character)

And now i am left with the utility build (i am the GM of this group , but this time i will play!)

I am thinking about a Oracle (Ancient or Lore mystery) or Warpriest... or maybe some bard archetype ?
3pp allowed.

Any suggestion ? (please no summoner or druidzilla, i don't like summoner type... maybe biased being a master...)

thanks

BHH

The Exchange

With 3pp, and a 30 point build, why not consider the following:

Theurge

30 point build will probably allow you to have decent int and wis for prepared casting on both sides.


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A lot of people will recommend Evangelist Cleric, as it combines performances with divine spellcasting.

No need to build Druidzilla, but if Druid interests you, you could totally make a blaster Druid (Urban or Storm archetypes) or a weapon-based combatant Nature's Fang.

Oracle as usual is a strong choice, and is Bard. Between the two, I'd probably go with Oracle between these two, as you could go for Heavy Armor Proficiency at level 1 and frontline while the Magus starts getting more spells and better armor proficiencies.

Finally, Occult classes could be nice additions as well. Particularly, I think a Medium could be fitting.

Warpriest is also nice but I'd advice you to go with archery if you do.

Dark Archive

I second Theurge, and would suggest that if you go oracle you take the psychic searcher archetype, the lore mystery, and be an archer as to be able to provide knowledge checks along with some much needed ranged damage and full casting.

Liberty's Edge

My suggestion:

Do a Cleric with some sort of ability to get a pet/bound outsider ect.
With only three people you will have issues with action economy.

Consider doing a seperatist with the Void domain(your seperatist domain) and the Glory doimain. This will allow you to get access to creatures with many abilities to buffer out your party if you are missing something.

And since these are not summons but bound creatures it should give you plenty of roleplaying possibilities. Oh and Glory(heroism) has some fantastic buff spells for your Slayer or your self if you want to do melee.

Just a Mort and others: That Theurge one seems a bit crazy to me though. A little to much cheese.

The Exchange

Don't see anything wrong, you have the same number of spells a wizard would have, except you can prepare divine spells as well. Its not as if in a true mystic theurge, you gain the casting abilities of a wizard, and cleric, at the same time. I've heard from someone who played in rappan athuk the theurge is not cheesy and OPed, its perfectly fine.

I would suggest some kind of ability to make knowledge checks or it'd be a shame to miss out on the story, at the same time, you need to crowd control. That would hint at some int based class, yet you may need condition removal at the same time. Theurge appears to fill both roles.

Failing that, you might want to try a witch. OP already stated his preference not to mess with summoning types - might extend to animal companions or eidolons, since it appears to be GM phobia.


If the slayer is handling traps then a Skald might be a great addition to that group. Personally I favor a dwarf using a Dwarven Waraxe and a shield with an agile breastplate. The strength boost will help the other two in melee and the rage powers can be very nice. The skald gets you a lot of face abilities, party buff spells while still being able to contribute damage to a fight which for RoTRL with only 3 PCs you will need to.

30 point

16 Stength (10)
14 Dex (5)
16 Con (5)
10 Int (0)
12 Wis (0)
14 Cha (10)

Grand Lodge

Go with a Real Theurge. With 30 point buy you can accomplish the MAD required for it.

I am a fan of Full Prepared Casters. I know it seems like Homework but I tend to fix a few Staple Spell Lists and Adjust the Staple List as needed.

I recommend Wizard/Evangelist Cleric

Opposing Abjuration and Divination you can pick up most the spells you oppose on the Cleric list.

Book 2 is heavy RP with only 2 really deadly fighting parts in it. So the Levels your getting behind on spell levels it is no real big deal...allowing you to be a Mystic Theurge by the final fights of Book 2. By the time the book kicks into Deadly mode Book 4 you will easily have 2-4 MT levels and be catching back up to where your supposed to be.

Sure you wont see 9th level spells but the AMOUNT of spells you have to cast will make up for that.

Silver Crusade

I second the Evangelist Cleric suggestion above. Such a PC is a force multiplier for the entire party. This PC gives the whole party Bardsong, plus full casting, plus the possibility of an Animal Companion, plus the option to be a melee beast if you want. This PC fills the Arm role with aplomb, and can take on a strong secondary role as either Hammer or Anvil.

While you can easily make such a PC very powerful, you do not have to. I suggest you merely match, not exceed, the optimization of the other PCs. You would not want to overshadow them. To whit, I'll suggest two builds.

Weak Evangelist Cleric build: have zero melee ability and plan not to use Summon Monster spells. You will have the best buffs in the game, making you a consummate Arm. Hang out in the back and provide buffs and utility spells. A very effective option. Make more effective, but certainly not overpowered, by adding cheap basic martial competence. Your 30 build points are mostly wasted, as this PC can be 100% effective when built on 1 character point.

Hyper powered Evangelist Cleric build: Buff better than a bard, inflict massive HP damage in melee (less if you avoid CODZilla), be highly mobile, have strong defenses (you should never have to take a Full Attack), control the battlefield, and cast powerful spells. All in the same round, because of your awesome action efficiency. Take Feather and Growth domain, longspear, and the right feats. For extreme over-the-top anvil power, also choose the Variant Channel (Daze) option, available to deities Ra and Horus. This build is extremely powerful, verging on overpowered, so only go this route if you need to match a very high level of optimization in the other PCs.

I suggest choosing a build that does not overshadow the other PCs, yet gives you the chance to 'power up' for the hard parts. Two methods to 'power up' are Summoning and CODZilla, both of which the OP wants to avoid. So avoid those on a routine basis, but keep them as your ace in the hole.

The Exchange

How would a hyper powered evangelist cleric be statted up, and how would the feats look like, as channeling and combat fight for the same feats? You also need to save 1 skill point per level for handle animal. Is it even possible with a 30 point buy?

Grand Lodge

Quote:
How would a hyper powered evangelist cleric be statted up, and how would the feats look like, as channeling and combat fight for the same feats? You also need to save 1 skill point per level for handle animal. Is it even possible with a 30 point buy?

If you go Hangover cleric all your feats go to Channeling typically.

If you play Any other Cleric....you never take Channel feats and you take other feats depending on the focus.

Reach: (Evangelist w/ Growth Domain) Combat reflexes + Power attack
Reach/Animal Companion: (evangelist w/Feather domain) Combat reflexes + Power attack + Boon Companion
Reach/summon buddy: (Evangelist w/ Feather Domain) Combat reflexes + Power attack + Sacred Summoning
Reach/Summon Buddy/Animal Companion: (Evangelist w/ Feather Domain) Combat Reflexes + Power attack + Sacred Summoning + Boon Companion

Full summon focus: (Evangelist Cleric w/ Heroism Domain) Spell focus Conjuration + Augmented summoning + Sacred Summoning + Superior Summoning

Enchantment Cleric: (Evangelist Cleric w/ Dealer choice) Spell Focus Enchantment + Greater Spell focus Enchantment + Persistent Spell

All those builds are very effective.

Rule of Thumb on Clerics:
Channeling and its feats are only typically worth it on Life oracles, Oradins, and Hangover Clerics.

Most my channeling is Variant Channels and done between battles to touch up Multiple targets and to use along with my Wand of Cure Light/Moderate wounds. (Level 10+ I tend to get a Cure Moderate wounds wand as the group pitchs in)

Dark Archive

I 4th an evangalist cleric. As a GM it's a nice buff, a great healer, and lets the other PCs shine.


In terms of cleric I would be more tempted to go for Herald Caller and then get Feather Domain..... makes a very good summoner, has 4 skill points, full casting, spontaneous summons AND heals, can use channels to heal summons from infinite range, animal companion and due to it receiving effectively 3 bonus feats, it means feats can be used elsewhere.


Pretty much any full divine caster will be just fine


well.. we lost the Magus and got a Witch..
also loose the Slayer and got a silly Halfling Rogue knife master !!! :(

so now we have

- Halfling rogue, knife master
- Human Witch (standard debuff build)

and me. Party need some melee build. Warpriest or battle Cleric (maybe with a little bit of summoning..) ?

I will need to shine.. or we are going to death...

Also GM are suggesting some hunter build, but i'm not a "nature" type

BHH

Liberty's Edge

buzzqw wrote:

well.. we lost the Magus and got a Witch..

also loose the Slayer and got a silly Halfling Rogue knife master !!! :(

so now we have

- Halfling rogue, knife master
- Human Witch (standard debuff build)

and me. Party need some melee build. Warpriest or battle Cleric (maybe with a little bit of summoning..) ?

I will need to shine.. or we are going to death...

Also GM are suggesting some hunter build, but i'm not a "nature" type

BHH

Sounds like a standard Reach Cleric with a bit of summoning might be your answer. Restrict your self to only summon one thing at a time and get your Halfling to scout ahead so that you can have relevant buffs up.

Alternatively the Warpriest could work but you will suffer with not getting access to the higher level cleric spells later on.


With such a small group size, I would play one of the summoning specialists. If anything it's good for setting up flanking for your slayer and magus, but you can do a lot with summoning, including decent in combat healing.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

In the days of 3.5, we had a group of three: a pretty generic sword and board fighter (khopesh and face) with a late dip into mystic (atheist Dragonlance favored soul-type divine caster), an arcane trickster (fighter 2/rogue 3/wizard 5, then arcane trickster), and my elf druid archer (wardog animal companion, and very versatile build).

We only had 3 PCs, but my wardog was a tank (very high AC w/barding, Spring Attack build + Power Attack & rod-extended Greater Magic Fang), which helped with action economy AND only had 1 attack, so was QUICK and easy to run.

My elf druid started out with Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot (can Rapid Shot produce flame for lots of ranged touch attacks), then Natural Spell, of course. Later on, got Empower Spell (fun with flame strikes, Improved Counterspell (really fun canceling out enemy fireballs with flame strikes and Craft Wand (for CLW wands--no downtime in that campaign).

My druid was able to do archery, tank, wildshape, summon, blast, battlefield control, heal, face, scout (HUGE Listen and Spot!), transport, buff, de-buff, counterspell, sage, and more.

If you don't want to do archery, swap out Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot for Combat Reflexes and Power Attack. Use them at levels 1 through 3 with a longspear and act as a reach tank and summoner, then tank later while wildshaping. A lot of the later wildshape options are Large and strong, so you can multiply the damage with those feats.


I am doing an rotrl campaign with 2 people, 20 ability score points, and no gm playing either.

We have no source of healing what so ever.

I think you should be fine with 30 points 3 people, gm playing. Although you might want to ask your rogue player to maybe playing a stronger class ex. Cleric, Oracle, Wiz etc.

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