Well I just thought her boob job meant she went up in levels. I mean if anime has taught us anything is that the bigger boobs a girl has the more powerful she is. :)
We always (jokingly) argued that charisma = boob size, so if you buy a charisma booster item, you need new bras.
For male characters, there is another characteristic that can be used to directly measure charisma, like a dipstick for ability scores.
Give back Shalelu long ears!
Record of Lodoss War fans, unite and fight!
Sylphs of the South Winds, lift up my ears and bring me news!
While I am not a fan of Record of lodoss wars, it still had the best looking Dark elf I had ever seen.
Meh, its just artwork, great artwork at that imho. I like the new Shalelu and Ameiko. I probably will never understand why folks get into an uproar about things like this.
It is a fantasy game after all.
Well, for me, at least, it's because I think athleticism looks attractive on a lady. Often, I read about a female NPC who's lean and mean; muscular and tough; or tomboyish; and I get a picture of a skinny 18-str supermodel, or a boobulous babe.
Serpent Skull
Yes, boobs are nice. I like them myself. But I also like chicks who are awesome and dangerous and darn well look the part. That's a part of fantasy for me.
As much as I enjoy a lot about Paizo and yes, much of the artwork they do; that's one thing I think WotC's artwork has over them or had at least, (I haven't seen a lot of new stuff...) is a better balance of female character appearances. Sometimes in their art you have sexy women, sometimes you have tough women, and sometimes you have women who balance both perfectly (though as said, I think tough is attractive.)
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And then, grant you, I could go on about the men in Pathfinder APs who have 8-10 strength and bulging muscles growing out of their shoulder muscles, but I've gone on long enough.
Serpent's Skull
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All that said, I do rather like the cover art for Ameiko. She does look kind of tough and mean there with that bad attitude and cocky posture.
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We're missing the bigger question...when did she get so stacked?We've got Shalelu illustrated on the cover of the second volume as well—she's a LOT more on-model there than she is in the Player's Guide, where she does indeed have a much bigger chest than she should.
Wondering what my Ranger in RotRL saw in her then, apart from a cute common hatred of Goblins (they stink, you know).
Now that I know for sure that she is not getting any "endowment feat" in the foreseeable future, Sir Felix Einen will more easily stay a faithful (though unhappy) husband in the eyes of Holy Father Erastil to his pretty (and well endowed) wife, former worshipper of Urgathoa (long story involving alcohol and drugs abuse - nothing nice really).
Creative Director
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One of the truths of ordering art for RPGs:
VERY few RPG artists play the game. We can't say "This character has only a 10 Strength, even though he's a 9th level fighter." That'd make no sense to the vast majority of our artists.
What we CAN say is something like: "This swashbuckler fights with a rapier and is thin." If we say "This swashbuckler is thin with no muscles" I'm afraid he'd come back looking like someone starving to death.
And then, of course, there's the fact that often times art comes in and the character is slightly or even entirely different looking than what we ordered. Sometimes we have the luxury of sending the art back and asking for revisions or complete redos, but often the art comes in with only a few days left before we go to print and we don't have an option other than "Rebuild the stat block at the last minute to make it fit the art." Obviously, doing that is an excellent way to create stat block errors, so we try to avoid that as often as possible... but changing a character's physical description is a lot easier.
That said... the covers are things we generally DON'T have this problem with, since we use artists who have proven their ability to follow our art direction AND understand the game AND are awesome artists. And furthermore, since they're COVERS, they have to do a bit of double duty—they have to serve as an illustration for the contents of the book, but they also have to serve as marketing. They have to entice possible buyers to buy the book, or at least be intrigued enough to pick the book up and look through it. Might be an artifact of our magazine days, where putting attractive people on the cover = better sales, but as unfortunate as it is... sex sells.
Doesn't stop us from putting non-sexy folk on the covers though... Pathfinder #25 and Pathfinder #33 being good examples. But as a general rule, there's a reason why on our covers you see good looking characters more often than not.
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We're missing the bigger question...when did she get so stacked?We've got Shalelu illustrated on the cover of the second volume as well—she's a LOT more on-model there than she is in the Player's Guide, where she does indeed have a much bigger chest than she should.Wondering what my Ranger in RotRL saw in her then, apart from a cute common hatred of Goblins (they stink, you know).
Now that I know for sure that she is not getting any "endowment feat" in the foreseeable future, Sir Felix Einen will more easily stay a faithful (though unhappy) husband in the eyes of Holy Father Erastil to his pretty (and well endowed) wife, former worshipper of Urgathoa (long story involving alcohol and drugs abuse - nothing nice really).
You wish .. you wish ...
Removed two posts. While definitely interesting, we don't consider those things as appropriate under community use. Please refer to this documentation for appropriate usage of our artwork (and what is and is not allowed).
One thing you might do, James, is find the best extant pic of elf eyes -- or maybe have a closeup made -- and include it along with the description when dealing with artists who haven't worked on Golarion elves.
Visual references can be worth their weight in gold.
While my choice in romantic partners irl would definitely lead one to believe that I prefer my women, *ahem*, voluptuous, I do like that Pathfinder elves were traditionally skinny, slight, or lanky (which actually made their height and weight tables make sense). I'm willing to handwave away random enhanced bustlines, and we understand that it's the artists' fault (well intentioned though they may be), not you writers.
Though I have to say, the comment about 'ear jokes' in Shalelu's dislikes had me and my old RotRL party guffawing.
Well I just thought her boob job meant she went up in levels. I mean if anime has taught us anything is that the bigger boobs a girl has the more powerful she is. :)
Never heard of Lina Inverse I take it? :P
Well I just thought her boob job meant she went up in levels. I mean if anime has taught us anything is that the bigger boobs a girl has the more powerful she is. :)Never heard of Lina Inverse I take it? :P
I think Lina is the Exception to the rule, given that the series is a fantasy comedy, that does parody some D&D cliches.
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Well I just thought her boob job meant she went up in levels. I mean if anime has taught us anything is that the bigger boobs a girl has the more powerful she is. :)Never heard of Lina Inverse I take it? :P
Yes I am aware she is the exception to the rule. But if I recall I think in slayers they make fun of her small boobs fairly often. I have not seen much of the show so i don't know for sure.
Yes I am aware she is the exception to the rule. But if I recall I think in slayers they make fun of her small boobs fairly often. I have not seen much of the show so i don't know for sure.Well I just thought her boob job meant she went up in levels. I mean if anime has taught us anything is that the bigger boobs a girl has the more powerful she is. :)Never heard of Lina Inverse I take it? :P
I was kidding of course, but yes the point was that she was board flat and stupidly powerful while her "nemesis" Naga was rediculously stacked and never dressed in more than a black bikini and cape and was entirely incompetent in comparison. The point was to make fun of other anime and the trope... I just thought it made a good point (and something you can use if you feel more Lina than Naga :P)
And furthermore, since they're COVERS, they have to do a bit of double duty—they have to serve as an illustration for the contents of the book, but they also have to serve as marketing. They have to entice possible buyers to buy the book, or at least be intrigued enough to pick the book up and look through it.
We come for the boobs, we stay for the stories!
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And furthermore, since they're COVERS, they have to do a bit of double duty—they have to serve as an illustration for the contents of the book, but they also have to serve as marketing. They have to entice possible buyers to buy the book, or at least be intrigued enough to pick the book up and look through it.We come for the boobs, we stay for the stories!
Or, to keep up with Paizos talent for tremendous titles: "We come for the cleavage, we stay for the stories" ;)
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And furthermore, since they're COVERS, they have to do a bit of double duty—they have to serve as an illustration for the contents of the book, but they also have to serve as marketing. They have to entice possible buyers to buy the book, or at least be intrigued enough to pick the book up and look through it.We come for the boobs, we stay for the stories!Or, to keep up with Paizos talent for tremendous titles: "We come for the cleavage, we stay for the stories" ;)
Absolutely accurate assertion! Brilliantly bequeathed! Continue conveying credible corrections!
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While I am not a fan of Record of lodoss wars, it still had the best looking Dark elf I had ever seen.
AHA! Shalelu has been killed, and replaced with a DROW! The artwork makes it clear that drow have bigger boobs than normal elves. Search her backpack for the disguise kit.
Actually, I think that many fantasy artists have trouble distinguishing between "possible romantic interest" and "porn star".
"DOLLY PARTON!"
The artwork makes it clear that drow have bigger boobs than normal elves.
No, the rules do. Drow get a charisma bonus. That means bigger boobs! ;-P
Actually, I think that many fantasy artists have trouble distinguishing between "possible romantic interest" and "porn star".
You're rambling! Shut up! The love Cheri Luv and I share is totally real!
;-P
Sean Connery: "WHO IS SHALELU!"
Alex Trebec: "That's famous TITLES Mr. Connery."
You shink you're pretty shmart, with your dagger mustaache and your greashy hair!
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One thing you might do, James, is find the best extant pic of elf eyes -- or maybe have a closeup made -- and include it along with the description when dealing with artists who haven't worked on Golarion elves.
Visual references can be worth their weight in gold.
That's what we're already doing. You'll note that once we got Wayne to paint Merisiel that the incidences of off-model elves dropped quickly...
The vast majority of our problems with getting elves to look right occurred up to and included Pathfinder #3. After that, lovely Merisiel was always there to help our artists out. (Even if someone came along and kinda gave Shalelu green hair in Pathfinder #15... oops...)
One thing you might do, James, is find the best extant pic of elf eyes -- or maybe have a closeup made -- and include it along with the description when dealing with artists who haven't worked on Golarion elves.
Visual references can be worth their weight in gold.
That's what we're already doing. You'll note that once we got Wayne to paint Merisiel that the incidences of off-model elves dropped quickly...
The vast majority of our problems with getting elves to look right occurred up to and included Pathfinder #3. After that, lovely Merisiel was always there to help our artists out. (Even if someone came along and kinda gave Shalelu green hair in Pathfinder #15... oops...)
I hope you give artists pictures of Lini when they're drawing gnomes. The red-haired guy from Gnomes of Golarion who is now immortalized as a mini looks good, but Gelik from Serpent's Skull.... :P
The vast majority of our problems with getting elves to look right occurred up to and included Pathfinder #3. After that, lovely Merisiel was always there to help our artists out. (Even if someone came along and kinda gave Shalelu green hair in Pathfinder #15... oops...)
Actually, this brings up a really good question. What's the "normal" range for elven hair color? One of the players in the Kingmaker game I'm in has a green haired elf and everyone acted like it was absolutely bizarre and unheard of, though they let her keep it. Since then, we've looked at every resource we could find (Core book, Inner Sea World Guide, and even the Elves of Golarion companion, and no one ever mentions what color elven hair is supposed to be. We know they like it long and flowy, we know they dye it to match their clothes or mood, and we know that after long periods of time in one area, they might change to match their surroundings... but as far as I've seen, there's no definitional description of what their color range is.
If I've missed it, I'd be elated for someone to point me to the relevant passage.
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I hope you give artists pictures of Lini when they're drawing gnomes. The red-haired guy from Gnomes of Golarion who is now immortalized as a mini looks good, but Gelik from Serpent's Skull.... :P
We do just that.
Turns out, some artists are better (or more capable) of following instructions than others. Ishoru, for example, was supposed to be young...
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Creative Director
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The vast majority of our problems with getting elves to look right occurred up to and included Pathfinder #3. After that, lovely Merisiel was always there to help our artists out. (Even if someone came along and kinda gave Shalelu green hair in Pathfinder #15... oops...)Actually, this brings up a really good question. What's the "normal" range for elven hair color? One of the players in the Kingmaker game I'm in has a green haired elf and everyone acted like it was absolutely bizarre and unheard of, though they let her keep it. Since then, we've looked at every resource we could find (Core book, Inner Sea World Guide, and even the Elves of Golarion companion, and no one ever mentions what color elven hair is supposed to be. We know they like it long and flowy, we know they dye it to match their clothes or mood, and we know that after long periods of time in one area, they might change to match their surroundings... but as far as I've seen, there's no definitional description of what their color range is.
If I've missed it, I'd be elated for someone to point me to the relevant passage.
The "normal" range for elven hair is the same as for humans, with the exception that their colors are more vibrant, and that white/silver is a much more common hair color among elves than humans.
The picture of Shalelu with green hair that appeared in Pathfinder #15 came in relatively late, and in hindsight, I should have pushed the art team to do some magic filter stunts to un-green it, but I probably had other things distracting me at the time. Her hair was blonde in both illustrations she appeared in during Rise of the Runelords, in any case.
The picture of Shalelu with green hair that appeared in Pathfinder #15 came in relatively late, and in hindsight, I should have pushed the art team to do some magic filter stunts to un-green it, but I probably had other things distracting me at the time. Her hair was blonde in both illustrations she appeared in during Rise of the Runelords, in any case.
Eh, it was camouflage for the sneak attack on Celwynvian; helped her blend in with the foliage. ;)
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The vast majority of our problems with getting elves to look right occurred up to and included Pathfinder #3. After that, lovely Merisiel was always there to help our artists out. (Even if someone came along and kinda gave Shalelu green hair in Pathfinder #15... oops...)Actually, this brings up a really good question. What's the "normal" range for elven hair color? One of the players in the Kingmaker game I'm in has a green haired elf and everyone acted like it was absolutely bizarre and unheard of, though they let her keep it. Since then, we've looked at every resource we could find (Core book, Inner Sea World Guide, and even the Elves of Golarion companion, and no one ever mentions what color elven hair is supposed to be. We know they like it long and flowy, we know they dye it to match their clothes or mood, and we know that after long periods of time in one area, they might change to match their surroundings... but as far as I've seen, there's no definitional description of what their color range is.
If I've missed it, I'd be elated for someone to point me to the relevant passage.
The "normal" range for elven hair is the same as for humans, with the exception that their colors are more vibrant, and that white/silver is a much more common hair color among elves than humans.
The picture of Shalelu with green hair that appeared in Pathfinder #15 came in relatively late, and in hindsight, I should have pushed the art team to do some magic filter stunts to un-green it, but I probably had other things distracting me at the time. Her hair was blonde in both illustrations she appeared in during Rise of the Runelords, in any case.
Maybe she got bored and dyed it green for awhile. :)
The "normal" range for elven hair is the same as for humans, with the exception that their colors are more vibrant, and that white/silver is a much more common hair color among elves than humans.The picture of Shalelu with green hair that appeared in Pathfinder #15 came in relatively late, and in hindsight, I should have pushed the art team to do some magic filter stunts to un-green it, but I probably had other things distracting me at the time. Her hair was blonde in both illustrations she appeared in during Rise of the Runelords, in any case.
That's supposed to be blond? To me, the illustration in Burnt Offerings, pg 19 looks pretty darn yellow-green. Now that you tell me it's supposed to be blond, and how fond that artist was of tints (see Aldern Foxglove, same book), I'll buy it, but I'd always thought she had green hair.
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The vast majority of our problems with getting elves to look right occurred up to and included Pathfinder #3. After that, lovely Merisiel was always there to help our artists out. (Even if someone came along and kinda gave Shalelu green hair in Pathfinder #15... oops...)Actually, this brings up a really good question. What's the "normal" range for elven hair color? One of the players in the Kingmaker game I'm in has a green haired elf and everyone acted like it was absolutely bizarre and unheard of, though they let her keep it. Since then, we've looked at every resource we could find (Core book, Inner Sea World Guide, and even the Elves of Golarion companion, and no one ever mentions what color elven hair is supposed to be. We know they like it long and flowy, we know they dye it to match their clothes or mood, and we know that after long periods of time in one area, they might change to match their surroundings... but as far as I've seen, there's no definitional description of what their color range is.
If I've missed it, I'd be elated for someone to point me to the relevant passage.
The "normal" range for elven hair is the same as for humans, with the exception that their colors are more vibrant, and that white/silver is a much more common hair color among elves than humans.
The picture of Shalelu with green hair that appeared in Pathfinder #15 came in relatively late, and in hindsight, I should have pushed the art team to do some magic filter stunts to un-green it, but I probably had other things distracting me at the time. Her hair was blonde in both illustrations she appeared in during Rise of the Runelords, in any case.
See? SEE? When I said she was blonde in Runelords, they shouted me down and told me I'm blind! But now I have a T-rex on my side! A T-REX! What are you going to do now, you color-challenged rodents?!
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See? SEE? When I said she was blonde in Runelords, they shouted me down and told me I'm blind! But now I have a T-rex on my side! A T-REX! What are you going to do now, you color-challenged rodents?!
Cook up some jambalaya and have a luau?
Sadly not very powerful, but I have other ass-sets to help out. :)Well I just thought her boob job meant she went up in levels. I mean if anime has taught us anything is that the bigger boobs a girl has the more powerful she is. :)How powerful are you then?
What does it say about me that my first thought, upon reading this, was "Ah, that means you've been taking a prestige class instead of sticking with base class levels."? And does the fact that I've been single far too long factor into that reaction?
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See? SEE? When I said she was blonde in Runelords, they shouted me down and told me I'm blind! But now I have a T-rex on my side! A T-REX! What are you going to do now, you color-challenged rodents?!Cook up some jambalaya and have a luau?
Sorry sir, we do not usually eat Jambalaya at luaus... though a big fat roast pig, no that you will see! ;P
EDIT: But I see by your pic, you are Ulfen, so you are excused my friend. ^_^
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That's supposed to be blond? To me, the illustration in Burnt Offerings, pg 19 looks pretty darn yellow-green. Now that you tell me it's supposed to be blond, and how fond that artist was of tints (see Aldern Foxglove, same book), I'll buy it, but I'd always thought she had green hair.
It's blonde. And yes, we've moved on to different artists. Like Wayne Reynolds, for one...
That's supposed to be blond? To me, the illustration in Burnt Offerings, pg 19 looks pretty darn yellow-green. Now that you tell me it's supposed to be blond, and how fond that artist was of tints (see Aldern Foxglove, same book), I'll buy it, but I'd always thought she had green hair.It's blonde. And yes, we've moved on to different artists. Like Wayne Reynolds, for one...
I don't believe you. You should... show me.
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What does it say about me that my first thought, upon reading this, was "Ah, that means you've been taking a prestige class instead of sticking with base class levels."? And does the fact that I've been single far too long factor into that reaction?Sadly not very powerful, but I have other ass-sets to help out. :)Well I just thought her boob job meant she went up in levels. I mean if anime has taught us anything is that the bigger boobs a girl has the more powerful she is. :)How powerful are you then?
Honestly I am not sure what that says about you... and I am going to go with yes as the answer to your second question. :)
I don't believe you. You should... show me.That's supposed to be blond? To me, the illustration in Burnt Offerings, pg 19 looks pretty darn yellow-green. Now that you tell me it's supposed to be blond, and how fond that artist was of tints (see Aldern Foxglove, same book), I'll buy it, but I'd always thought she had green hair.It's blonde. And yes, we've moved on to different artists. Like Wayne Reynolds, for one...
Why yes, preferably on the blog. After Ameiko has gotten her day in the sun, of course. :p
Seriously, though, shouldn't we get the real cover for Night of Frozen Shadows somewhen soon on the products page?
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Why yes, preferably on the blog. After Ameiko has gotten her day in the sun, of course. :p
Seriously, though, shouldn't we get the real cover for Night of Frozen Shadows somewhen soon on the products page?
Turns out that Gen Con is a pretty serious disruption to pretty much every single schedule in every single department. We've had the art for the cover of that one for months (in fact, we've got art for every Jade Regent AP installment but the last right now... but only have covers built for the first 3 since those three are the only ones we've shipped to the printer so far)... but coordinating that with other projects (be they Gen Con or launching interactive maps or sudden miniature deals with WizKids or whatever) is complicated. It's also an Upstairs Thing, but I've got it on good authority that they'll be going live soon with the new art.
Turns out that Gen Con is a pretty serious disruption to pretty much every single schedule in every single department. We've had the art for the cover of that one for months (in fact, we've got art for every Jade Regent AP installment but the last right now... but only have covers built for the first 3 since those three are the only ones we've shipped to the printer so far)... but coordinating that with other projects (be they Gen Con or launching interactive maps or sudden miniature deals with WizKids or whatever) is complicated. It's also an Upstairs Thing, but I've got it on good authority that they'll be going live soon with the new art.Why yes, preferably on the blog. After Ameiko has gotten her day in the sun, of course. :p
Seriously, though, shouldn't we get the real cover for Night of Frozen Shadows somewhen soon on the products page?
Thanks for the detailed info, James. :)
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I see the new artwork is up for the 2nd book. Shalelu looks fantastic and was well worth the wait.
I thought there would have been a bit more of a fan-fare from James or the art team once it went up. Or am I the first to notice with my Aussie future seeing ways?
The only nitpick (and it's not, just thought I would jump in before someone else) is that in the picture, she seems to be wielding a Comp Shortbow and not a Longbow as per her stat block.
But a great picture all the same and finally a better art piece to put on my campaign webpage for her. Great job (Wayne)?
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I see the new artwork is up for the 2nd book. Shalelu looks fantastic and was well worth the wait.
I thought there would have been a bit more of a fan-fare from James or the art team once it went up. Or am I the first to notice with my Aussie future seeing ways?
The only nitpick (and it's not, just thought I would jump in before someone else) is that in the picture, she seems to be wielding a Comp Shortbow and not a Longbow as per her stat block.
But a great picture all the same and finally a better art piece to put on my campaign webpage for her. Great job (Wayne)?
The timing of when the actual covers go live on the web store happens more or less without my input, and without my knowledge. It's hard to do fanfare when you don't know the schedule, and are distracted by other projects and all that!
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The timing of when the actual covers go live on the web store happens more or less without my input, and without my knowledge. It's hard to do fanfare when you don't know the schedule, and are distracted by other projects and all that!
Oops, didn't mean to imply that you were slacking mate, I understand that you guys have a lot of products on the go.
However, when you do have a chance, I reckon a lot of us would be interested in your opinion on this art piece compared to the previous one. Is it what you imagined when writing the character and closer to the guidelines you have of elves?
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The timing of when the actual covers go live on the web store happens more or less without my input, and without my knowledge. It's hard to do fanfare when you don't know the schedule, and are distracted by other projects and all that!Oops, didn't mean to imply that you were slacking mate, I understand that you guys have a lot of products on the go.
However, when you do have a chance, I reckon a lot of us would be interested in your opinion on this art piece compared to the previous one. Is it what you imagined when writing the character and closer to the guidelines you have of elves?
Wayne's depiction of Shalelu is 100% entirely how I've envisioned Shalelu from the start, pretty much. I have no complaints whatsoever about it. It's more or less perfect.
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Wayne's depiction of Shalelu is 100% entirely how I've envisioned Shalelu from the start, pretty much. I have no complaints whatsoever about it. It's more or less perfect.
The timing of when the actual covers go live on the web store happens more or less without my input, and without my knowledge. It's hard to do fanfare when you don't know the schedule, and are distracted by other projects and all that!Oops, didn't mean to imply that you were slacking mate, I understand that you guys have a lot of products on the go.
However, when you do have a chance, I reckon a lot of us would be interested in your opinion on this art piece compared to the previous one. Is it what you imagined when writing the character and closer to the guidelines you have of elves?
I agree, and nominate Laori Vaus as the next NPC who should get new art. She'd also be a good pick for a recurrence cameo.