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Off topic question:
Mr. Savage - is OWC still around and what is going on with the Chill license?OWC still exists but everything is going through Super Genius now. As for Chill, it's on indefinite hold. :/
Hyrum.
Do you guys need funding for the project or maybe looking to possibly sell it?
What would be the best way to contact you directly?
I remember when the last movie came out, I had to try to explain to people the difference between a reboot and the creation of a new timeline/universe. This is the third major different timeline explored (we hope at least). There is the original timeline (TOS->TNG->DS9->VOY), the alternate timeline (evil goatee universe caused by Bones saving the peace-worker, allowing Nazis to win), and now this one.The Mirror universe separated long before Edith Keeler. In the Enterprise episode, ...
I'll just feel free to disregard anything following this if you don't mind.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I remember when the last movie came out, I had to try to explain to people the difference between a reboot and the creation of a new timeline/universe. This is the third major different timeline explored (we hope at least). There is the original timeline (TOS->TNG->DS9->VOY), the alternate timeline (evil goatee universe caused by Bones saving the peace-worker, allowing Nazis to win), and now this one.The Mirror universe separated long before Edith Keeler. In the Enterprise episode, characters exploring the USS Defiant remark on how the fiction in this other universe is similar except with weaker and more compassionate characters, except for Shakespeare - it's not clear exactly which fictional works they peruse, but the differences thus date back to at least the Age of Sail.
I enjoyed those Mirror episodes. Both for the resolution of the fate of the Defiant, the nods to TOS, and Linda Park in the Mirror uniform. :-)
I've even seen some arguments that the Mirror universe is the 'real' one and First Contact created the divergent timeline (yeah, the Enterprise episode cans that, but it's still amusing.)
Enterprise worked best when they got rid of the "Time War" nonsense. And is was so nice to see the Borg as terrifying again.
What would be the best way to contact you directly?
My email address is hyrum (at) otherworlds (dot) cx
:)
It's a bit of a hard fit. Star Trek:TOS was produced by men who's attitudes date pretty much from the '50's and it drew a lot from that generation's fairly right-wing and patriarchal world-view. The attitudes of TOS especially toward's women would not have flown well with a modern audience. So you do have to make some allowances for that.
I haven't watched enough of Enterprise to know how well it sits in the original timeline. My wife (girlfriend then) and I watched the first season, but it was so brutal that we just couldn't keep watching it.
Well sure, I mean there was the episode that said that women couldn't be captains in TOS and I think we all would dismiss it. But I was talking more about things that directly reflect upon the historical events in the "later" series. I mean if Enterprise gets a transwarp drive and visits the delta quadrant and fights off a squad of Jem'Hadar somewhere I might be a bit disappointed.
Well sure, I mean there was the episode that said that women couldn't be captains in TOS and I think we all would dismiss it. But I was talking more about things that directly reflect upon the historical events in the "later" series. I mean if Enterprise gets a transwarp drive and visits the delta quadrant and fights off a squad of Jem'Hadar somewhere I might be a bit disappointed.It's a bit of a hard fit. Star Trek:TOS was produced by men who's attitudes date pretty much from the '50's and it drew a lot from that generation's fairly right-wing and patriarchal world-view. The attitudes of TOS especially toward's women would not have flown well with a modern audience. So you do have to make some allowances for that.
I haven't watched enough of Enterprise to know how well it sits in the original timeline. My wife (girlfriend then) and I watched the first season, but it was so brutal that we just couldn't keep watching it.
Which episode of the TOS or TAS was that?
I have watched them all, several times, and they never said anything of the kind. (Admittedly, the 1967 TV networks would never have allowed it in the show, but it was never actually a part of the setting.)
Assuming my recollection isn't faulty, it was the episode where a woman did a bodyswap with Kirk to take over command.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Assuming my recollection isn't faulty, it was the episode where a woman did a bodyswap with Kirk to take over command.
Turnabout Intruder.
Though that was the last episode, and the series was pretty much dead by that point.
Compare that to 'The Cage' and 'The Man Trap', radically different attitudes. Gene was a bit ahead of his time on some things. Not so much on others.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Well sure, I mean there was the episode that said that women couldn't be captains in TOS and I think we all would dismiss it. But I was talking more about things that directly reflect upon the historical events in the "later" series. I mean if Enterprise gets a transwarp drive and visits the delta quadrant and fights off a squad of Jem'Hadar somewhere I might be a bit disappointed.
Off the top of my head...
They do have visual communications with other ships (again could contradict Balance of Terror)
The Borg episode is excellent. They never name the Borg, or give any hints. We (the viewer) know what the Borg are, but the crew gets that scary "How do we stop these guys" vibe that the Borg lost. It also ends with a nice tie in to TNG with a stable time loop.
First encounter with the Ferengi.
There are some nice episodes with Augmented humans (kind of bringing the Eugenics wars into a more stable timeline) A Doctor Soong is involved, and it leads to an explaination for the TOS Klingons looking different than their Enterprise/TNG/DS9/Voy counterparts.
Som expansion on Vulcan culture. Some heavy handed, some not so much.
Hints on how Spock was born.
Assuming my recollection isn't faulty, it was the episode where a woman did a bodyswap with Kirk to take over command.Turnabout Intruder.
Though that was the last episode, and the series was pretty much dead by that point.
Compare that to 'The Cage' and 'The Man Trap', radically different attitudes. Gene was a bit ahead of his time on some things. Not so much on others.
I also remember that it was Dr. Janice Lester who said that. Not the most rational or trustworthy of individuals.
Even so, you may be right. (I will need to re-watch this episode to be sure.)
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Also contrast the ways the two different Romulan Commanders were defeated in the series. The male commander was generally defeated because Kirk had a better ship and crew behind him, not through lack of ability or nobility. The second Romulan Commander loses her cloaking device mainly because of being vulnerable as a woman. The Original Series overall was not very kind to women. Nichelle Nichols had planned to jump ship because of the way her character was nothing more than bridge ornamentation and it took a very persuasive Martin Luther King to change her mind.
Counter-point: the argument MLK used to change her mind was to inform her that by rank, she was directly behind Spock as far as Senior Officers go. Anytime Kirk and Spock were both absent, Uhura was technically the ranking officer on the bridge.
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Perhaps but in TOS, when that happened command would fall to Scott or Sulu. Uhura never had the big chair save for one episode in the Animated Series, which Roddenberry disavowed from canon. Uhura was never treated as a ranking officer.
Also contrast the ways the two different Romulan Commanders were defeated in the series. The male commander was generally defeated because Kirk had a better ship and crew behind him, not through lack of ability or nobility. The second Romulan Commander loses her cloaking device mainly because of being vulnerable as a woman. The Original Series overall was not very kind to women. Nichelle Nichols had planned to jump ship because of the way her character was nothing more than bridge ornamentation and it took a very persuasive Martin Luther King to change her mind.Counter-point: the argument MLK used to change her mind was to inform her that by rank, she was directly behind Spock as far as Senior Officers go. Anytime Kirk and Spock were both absent, Uhura was technically the ranking officer on the bridge.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm not a big enough trekkie to be able to debate it accurately. I just thought it was highly ironic that you brought up the MLK incident when the argument MLK used went contrary to your statement. Granted, the writers/directors etc may have run things contrary to the facts MLK pointed out, nullifying his argument, but that's neither here nor there.
It's still funny and ironic.
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Perhaps but in TOS, when that happened command would fall to Scott or Sulu. Uhura never had the big chair save for one episode in the Animated Series, which Roddenberry disavowed from canon. Uhura was never treated as a ranking officer.
Also contrast the ways the two different Romulan Commanders were defeated in the series. The male commander was generally defeated because Kirk had a better ship and crew behind him, not through lack of ability or nobility. The second Romulan Commander loses her cloaking device mainly because of being vulnerable as a woman. The Original Series overall was not very kind to women. Nichelle Nichols had planned to jump ship because of the way her character was nothing more than bridge ornamentation and it took a very persuasive Martin Luther King to change her mind.Counter-point: the argument MLK used to change her mind was to inform her that by rank, she was directly behind Spock as far as Senior Officers go. Anytime Kirk and Spock were both absent, Uhura was technically the ranking officer on the bridge.
Actually, Scott WAS third in command after Kirk and then Spock. Kirk held the rank of captain, Spock was a commander, Scotty was a lt. commander. Uhura and Sulu were only lieutenants, so they both fell under Scotty in the chain of command.
Yes, I'm a big Star Trek fan.
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Perhaps but in TOS, when that happened command would fall to Scott or Sulu. Uhura never had the big chair save for one episode in the Animated Series, which Roddenberry disavowed from canon. Uhura was never treated as a ranking officer.
Star Trek in general often seems to ignore rank unless it's a plot point. The same is true of some other sci-fi shows as well. It's particularly noteable in Babylon 5, where Corwin should step into the command role when both Sheridan and Ivanova are not there...but instead it was usually passed to Delenn. Despite the fact that she had absolutely no ties to Earthforce. This still continued even after Corwin confirmed his alligiance to the station above Clarke.
And don't even get me started on Troi ever being in command. I dunno her rank, but considering her abject uselessness for the entire run of the series, putting her in a Captain's Chair? Ridiculous.
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Perhaps but in TOS, when that happened command would fall to Scott or Sulu. Uhura never had the big chair save for one episode in the Animated Series, which Roddenberry disavowed from canon. Uhura was never treated as a ranking officer.Star Trek in general often seems to ignore rank unless it's a plot point. The same is true of some other sci-fi shows as well. It's particularly noteable in Babylon 5, where Corwin should step into the command role when both Sheridan and Ivanova are not there...but instead it was usually passed to Delenn. Despite the fact that she had absolutely no ties to Earthforce. This still continued even after Corwin confirmed his alligiance to the station above Clarke.
And don't even get me started on Troi ever being in command. I dunno her rank, but considering her abject uselessness for the entire run of the series, putting her in a Captain's Chair? Ridiculous.
Good point.
FYI, Troi was a Lieutenant Commander in the first few seasons and then got promoted to full Commander later in the series
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Actually, Scott WAS third in command after Kirk and then Spock. Kirk held the rank of captain, Spock was a commander, Scotty was a lt. commander. Uhura and Sulu were only lieutenants, so they both fell under Scotty in the chain of command.Yes, I'm a big Star Trek fan.
Scotty didn't serve on the bridge, though.
And Sulu can't run a ship, he's too busy driving. You know, if you can't focus on staying in your lane, some dude is gonna take your acting job and crash into the side of the space port...
Uhura was only a lieutenant? Say it isn't so, MLK!
I like Star Trek, but I'm much more Casual about it. There's a metric ton I don't know.
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Scotty didn't serve on the bridge, though.
Actually, Scott WAS third in command after Kirk and then Spock. Kirk held the rank of captain, Spock was a commander, Scotty was a lt. commander. Uhura and Sulu were only lieutenants, so they both fell under Scotty in the chain of command.Yes, I'm a big Star Trek fan.
Actually, Scotty did serve on the bridge and was considered a senior bridge officer. Although he certainly spent much of his time down in Engineering, Scotty had an Engineering post right there on the bridge and was often seen there in the series.
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Actually, Scotty did serve on the bridge and was considered a senior bridge officer. Although he certainly spent much of his time down in Engineering, Scotty had an Engineering post right there on the bridge and was often seen there in the series.Scotty didn't serve on the bridge, though.
Actually, Scott WAS third in command after Kirk and then Spock. Kirk held the rank of captain, Spock was a commander, Scotty was a lt. commander. Uhura and Sulu were only lieutenants, so they both fell under Scotty in the chain of command.Yes, I'm a big Star Trek fan.
You have defeated me, sir! That's what I get for watching Enterprise instead.
I'm going back to the bar where my CMO can pour me something stiff to wallow in...
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By the way, do you realize that this isn't true?
The reboot movie happens in a damaged timeline.
Spock's traveling to Romulus with the Red Matter is predicated on the events from Star Trek: Nemesis.
So, for that to happen, all the original continuity is still valid in the "original" or "Prime" timeline.
And if I thought that they were going to continue to make movies or TV shows in the "prime" timeline you would have a valid point. It doesn't matter which timeline events happen if they're never going to film, say, a DS9 movie because of the Abrams reboot. For all intents the old continuity has been erased.
And no, the novels don't count.
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And if I thought that they were going to continue to make movies or TV shows in the "prime" timeline you would have a valid point. It doesn't matter which timeline events happen if they're never going to film, say, a DS9 movie because of the Abrams reboot. For all intents the old continuity has been erased.
And no, the novels don't count.
Agreed.
The whole "no really, this is the damaged timeline and the original is still the 'prime' timeline" thing is really nothing but a way to pacify the trekkies. But in reality it marginalizes their interests and steals the franchise from the hardcore fans whose dedication has kept it on life support since TOS was cancelled in the first season. Their cultish dedication resurrected a dead series, put it back on the air, generated a multi-mega $$ franchise, only to have it wrenched from their loving care and handed over to the lowest common denominators (like me) in the name of Berman's cold-hard cash-god$.
Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed the movie. I will watch more, regardless of the fact that it has ostrasized hardcore trekkies like older edition gaming loyalists.
It's a reboot that invalidates everything post-Enterprise. It's not "in addition to", it's not faux anything.
It's a replacement. I'm a dirty little traitor maggot for looking forward to the next one, I'm not going to lie to myself about it, and I'm not going to let Berman lie to me in my place.
Chief Technical Officer
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Let's leave the Trek talk for the Movies and TV forums, where people who might want to join in the conversation might actually find it.
As for the original topic, I think folks have seen that Hyrum is now representing Super Genius right here on the boards again, and we're happy to have him do so.
Locking the thread now...