My current DM is NOT leniant with races. We can pick something from the core and that's it. Personally I find this limiting, but when I confront him, his answer is "If a villager saw that thing in a town He'd kill it."
What is your take on allowing kobolds, tieflings, dhampirs, goblins and other bestiary races as characters?
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Personally as a player I like to sometimes do something out of the ordinary. So I like to make a character every now and then of a non core race.
As a DM I feel that each of those races has a time and a place. Really it all depends on the setting. If you DM is using Golarion then each of the races has an area that they would be as common as a core race and then there are other places where they are as common as a machine gun in a fantasy setting.
But also as a DM I prefer that my players have a good reason to want to play a non core race. And saying because it gives you a bonus to an ability or gives you access to something is not a good reason.
But all in all that is my own opinion and you can take it how you want.
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Personally as a player I like to sometimes do something out of the ordinary. So I like to make a character every now and then of a non core race.
As a DM I feel that each of those races has a time and a place. Really it all depends on the setting. If you DM is using Golarion then each of the races has an area that they would be as common as a core race and then there are other places where they are as common as a machine gun in a fantasy setting.
But also as a DM I prefer that my players have a good reason to want to play a non core race. And saying because it gives you a bonus to an ability or gives you access to something is not a good reason.
But all in all that is my own opinion and you can take it how you want.
this
If we saw those things our group would suspect it was an NPC and kill it. After all, NPC's are just for buying/selling magic, giving quests, and killing. And really, if you just kill it you can take its magic and the quests just start happening.
Greg
Depends on the setting.
As for goblins and kobolds, in the adventures I know these creatures seem quite vicious, killing villagers and stuff - that's indeed not what the towns guard should let in, your DMs "kill on sight"-argument holds.
Tieflings well, in a Cheliax campaign they'd fit in quite nice, as for other nations, well, they will attract some trouble, but half orcs are the same in this regard.
What's your DMs opinion on Aasimar and other creatures that don't look vicious?
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My current DM is NOT leniant with races. We can pick something from the core and that's it. Personally I find this limiting, but when I confront him, his answer is "If a villager saw that thing in a town He'd kill it."
What is your take on allowing kobolds, tieflings, dhampirs, goblins and other bestiary races as characters?
I would have to agree with your GM.Unless there is a really good reason or backstory to having a non core race most likely it would not be welcomed by the general populace of golarion.
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Depends on the setting.
As for goblins and kobolds, in the adventures I know these creatures seem quite vicious, killing villagers and stuff - that's indeed not what the towns guard should let in, your DMs "kill on sight"-argument holds.
Tieflings well, in a Cheliax campaign they'd fit in quite nice, as for other nations, well, they will attract some trouble, but half orcs are the same in this regard.
What's your DMs opinion on Aasimar and other creatures that don't look vicious?
this... personally I wish Golorian weren't so human centric. I refuse to play humans - they're boring. Abd things like looke like humans are boring... that leaves me with 1/2 orcs and gnomes
i get assuming that fetchlings, tieflings (except in cheliax) goblins, kobold and maybe Ifrit and stuff would be killed, or not allowed in, but there's plenty that that would be strange for.
like Aasmar, sylphs, oread, dhampire, and changelings seem like they could pass for human. Odd humans, but at a glance it may not be super noticeable and wouldn't be grounds for execution as a threat to teh general safety.
(that said, i'd probably have a tough time convincing anyone i was an oread for any reason other than the +2 strength and Darkvision)
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What is your take on allowing kobolds, tieflings, dhampirs, goblins and other bestiary races as characters?
In my homebrew, you could be any of those races and mostly get by with varying levels of prejudice and acceptance depending on where you are.
In Golarion, it would be a bit tougher depending on the race and the location, but I would work with the player to give them options to get by and enjoy their character rather than be out to get them.
Full disclocure: I'm not a believer in inherent alignments for mortal races. Always Chaotic Evil has always been my most hated trope in the game. This is also from the perspective that the player involved wants to play those races for the flavor rather than just the numbers.
My current DM is NOT leniant with races. We can pick something from the core and that's it. Personally I find this limiting, but when I confront him, his answer is "If a villager saw that thing in a town He'd kill it."
What is your take on allowing kobolds, tieflings, dhampirs, goblins and other bestiary races as characters?
I can see peasants chasing kobolds: small size and reptilian features make it an easy target for drunken lynch parties. Tieflings can either inspire fear or hatred, so reactions vary from one to another. Dhampir look like humans except for an uncanny valley effect: dead eyes, inhumanly fluid movements, and so on. There should not be a problem with dhampir at all; if your GM is using the Bestiary 2 dhampir image as canon, please urge that he use dhampir from fiction instead. Goblins are almost always insane psychopathic shorties, therefore hostile reactions are common.
Personally, I hate elves and halfings and I'm not fond of half-orcs either. Dwarves are fine in small high-fantasy doses. Gnomes and humans are always welcome. When I create a new fantasy homebrew, I always remove elves, dwarves, and halfings immediately (dwarves just get caught in net, what can I say?) and distance half-orcs as rarities. Tieflings are almost always available along with gnomes, goblins, mites, merfolk, aasimar, tengu, dhampir, and fetchlings.
I try to make use of new races added to the game as much as possible, but some races' climate restrictions prevent their appearance every session. The only time my players see halfings or elves are as goodly foes in a Dungeon Keeper-themed campaign and thankfully none of them care.
Your best bet is likely to convince your GM that dhampir are not the black-skinned mockeries shown in the second Bestiary. An illustration in the latest Carrion Crown AP (without spoiling anything) proves this.
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I'd call cockamainia on your dm atleast for the ones that walk upright and look mostly human. I'd allow it.
the kobold and goblin, I agree with your DM, even more so if said game is taking place where the chaotic creatures are known to live.
but as was typed earlier, give a good reason to your dm to let you play, and not the copout that said race grants you this ability or skill.
besides, as for the tiefling at the flame race, a hooded cloak can hide the horns of both races and tail og the tiefling
Personally, I think you should try to talk your GM into letting you play that Merman Barbarian you've always wanted. On land. With the 5 base move + 10 from Barbarian.
*flop flop flop* SWING!
I think your GM has done the right thing. I think most of the bestiary races are not appropriate as PCs even if they are technically 0 HD. It's up to the GM to decide what is and is not appropriate for the game and calling it limiting is rather low. Discuss it maturely. If you still get told no, live with it or find another game. Player entitlement is not a good attitude to try bandying around.
Before you think I'm a big stick in the mud, I do allow kobolds in my home game, but before I did, I rewrote their statblock to put them as precisely on par with core races as I could manage. It was the actions of player characters that brought kobolds into civilisation. If the same happened with another race, I'd do a rework of their stats to make them playable as well. As it stands, very few of the Bestiary races are up to my standards.
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My DM has the same opinion on non-core races as I do when I DM: you can play any race you want, but you cannot complain about the consequences. Wanna play a tiefling? Sure! Just don't be surprised that if people find out you're not welcome in most shops.
Most people won't kick you out of town or kill you on sight, but they will be a bit unnerved by you. You've got horns, weird eyes, flaming hair, or gills. It is something they are NOT used to and each NPC will respond according to their personality and the situation. Some will take an instant liking to you. Others will make sure their children don't go near you. But rarely will a mob form to lynch you, unless you start killing civilians or something.
Basically, if you've read/played book 1 of Carrion Crown, the way the people treat the PC's is how I have regular NPC's treat monster races. They typically start out as wary, but they're not gonna lynch you on sight.
My DM has the same opinion on non-core races as I do when I DM: you can play any race you want, but you cannot complain about the consequences. Wanna play a tiefling? Sure! Just don't be surprised that if people find out you're not welcome in most shops.
Most people won't kick you out of town or kill you on sight, but they will be a bit unnerved by you. You've got horns, weird eyes, flaming hair, or gills. It is something they are NOT used to and each NPC will respond according to their personality and the situation. Some will take an instant liking to you. Others will make sure their children don't go near you. But rarely will a mob form to lynch you, unless you start killing civilians or something.
Basically, if you've read/played book 1 of Carrion Crown, the way the people treat the PC's is how I have regular NPC's treat monster races. They typically start out as wary, but they're not gonna lynch you on sight.
+1
I pretty much stick with the core races.
Not my only reason, but one I haven't seen posted yet: for each player drawn by the unique RP opportunities offered by race X, I've seen at least ten for whom it's "Wow, this race has REALLY good stats for the class I want to play."
Which isn't the end of the world, but I don't see much good in encouraging it either.
I pretty much stick with the core races.
Not my only reason, but one I haven't seen posted yet: for each player drawn by the unique RP opportunities offered by race X, I've seen at least ten for whom it's "Wow, this race has REALLY good stats for the class I want to play."
Which isn't the end of the world, but I don't see much good in encouraging it either.
That's one of my main reasons as well. I don't want players just picking a race because the stats and abilities line up perfectly. The more races there are, the more likely that is going to happen. I have never seen someone ask for a non-core race for anything other than mechancial reasons, with the sole exception of kobold.
+2+1My DM has the same opinion on non-core races as I do when I DM: you can play any race you want, but you cannot complain about the consequences. Wanna play a tiefling? Sure! Just don't be surprised that if people find out you're not welcome in most shops.
Most people won't kick you out of town or kill you on sight, but they will be a bit unnerved by you. You've got horns, weird eyes, flaming hair, or gills. It is something they are NOT used to and each NPC will respond according to their personality and the situation. Some will take an instant liking to you. Others will make sure their children don't go near you. But rarely will a mob form to lynch you, unless you start killing civilians or something.
Basically, if you've read/played book 1 of Carrion Crown, the way the people treat the PC's is how I have regular NPC's treat monster races. They typically start out as wary, but they're not gonna lynch you on sight.
+3
And while wanting a race for stats is not a good reason how often do those of you who argue this as a reason for not allowing those races question why your player choose the base races they want do you require them to explain why its not just stats that made them choose halfing for their ray specialist halfling sorcerer.
And while wanting a race for stats is not a good reason how often do those of you who argue this as a reason for not allowing those races question why your player choose the base races they want do you require them to explain why its not just stats that made them choose halfing for their ray specialist halfling sorcerer.
I am careful about any concept presented to me, even if it's a core race/class. 'Elf wizard' is one that gets scrutinized, for example. I prefer that someone actually put some thought into what it means to be an elf in my world, not just pick it for the +int and free spell penetration.
I pretty much stick with the core races.
Not my only reason, but one I haven't seen posted yet: for each player drawn by the unique RP opportunities offered by race X, I've seen at least ten for whom it's "Wow, this race has REALLY good stats for the class I want to play."
Which isn't the end of the world, but I don't see much good in encouraging it either.
So the fact that some of us hate Middle Earth and its spawn with a burning, screaming passion has nothing to do with roleplay? I know that when I get a chance to play, I want something besides the core races.
So the fact that some of us hate Middle Earth and its spawn with a burning, screaming passion has nothing to do with roleplay? I know that when I get a chance to play, I want something besides the core races.
Then I'm sure you wouldn't mind, when asking to play an ifrit, that you are told you can so long as you count as humanoid instead of outsider and don't get the sorcerer bonus? :)
So the fact that some of us hate Middle Earth and its spawn with a burning, screaming passion has nothing to do with roleplay? I know that when I get a chance to play, I want something besides the core races.Then I'm sure you wouldn't mind, when asking to play an ifrit, that you are told you can so long as you count as humanoid instead of outsider and don't get the sorcerer bonus? :)
No i dont mind and i assume you mean all of affinity when you say sorcerer bonus. As long as you can show where i am not lower powered now than the standard races since i have balanced stats a once a day 1st level spell resist 5 fire and darkvision. The fire resistance should be noted wouldn't even stack if i took the fire sorcerer bloodline thus negating its usefulness to this as a sorcerer build.
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I pretty much stick with the core races.
Not my only reason, but one I haven't seen posted yet: for each player drawn by the unique RP opportunities offered by race X, I've seen at least ten for whom it's "Wow, this race has REALLY good stats for the class I want to play."
Which isn't the end of the world, but I don't see much good in encouraging it either.
Agree. I'm GMing a lot these days and am a bit bummed when players choose races based on stats vs. what is appropriate for the campaign.
And, bottom-line, he's the GM. He's going to put hours of his own time into creating a good experience for you. In exchange for that, he gets to draw a few lines. If you really, REALLY don't like that, you can always play somewhere else, or feel free to offer to GM yourself.
So the fact that some of us hate Middle Earth and its spawn with a burning, screaming passion has nothing to do with roleplay? I know that when I get a chance to play, I want something besides the core races.Then I'm sure you wouldn't mind, when asking to play an ifrit, that you are told you can so long as you count as humanoid instead of outsider and don't get the sorcerer bonus? :)
Let's change that to an example I care about: tiefling. Change a tiefling's type to humanoid? Sure. No fiendish sorcery? Doesn't matter, I don't like playing tiefling sorcerers/oracles. Whether I'm allowed an INT bonus or if we're still playing "punish the non-core PC", I'd choose either a conjuration specialist (an affinity for the planes, a feeling like the character doesn't belong on the prime), a rogue (this tiefling enjoys tinkering, locksmithing, and puzzles), or a druid (eschews the need for acceptance in human societies and embraces the wild).
If I play any race for mechanics, it's human.
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Going on 32 years at this, I've allowed a whole lot of weirdness into my games, from non-core to gestalt to things just entirely made up. I can tell you that more-often-than-not, the weirdness eventually, sometimes sooner, sometimes later, ruined something for somebody.
Weirdness is hard to control like that. Even seasoned GMs can let it get out of hand.
And though I like occasional weirdness and have grown to have a pretty good command over what it can do to a game, I think it's a bad, bad idea to try to force, cajole, dare, goad, or otherwise try to get a GM who does not want that stuff in his game, to allow it.
And here's why:
GMing is hard, complicated, sometimes confusing work. Each GM knows his comfort level. When you force a GM to allow something he is not comfortable with, basically forcing that thing into an already-complicated, already-confusing situation, you are asking for trouble. And likely, the person who will suffer most for that trouble, is the GM himself.
The player will have got what he wanted, got his, excuse the expression, jollies out of it, had a hand in ruining the fun for others, and then likely we be back on this forum, complaining about all the bad rulings him GM is making lately, and how the game is rapidly going downhill. We will all try go to comfort that person, all the while the real victim - the GM - is sitting in a dark closet, wondering what happened to his game.
Personally, I'd rather not be a party to that, so here is my advice in a nutshell (too late, I know). Leave your GM alone. Remember he is the hardest working person at the table, and your fun often comes at the expense of his. At least let him have his comfort level, if nothing else. If you want more, go out and get it from another GM. This is not a marriage. But your default method of obtaining fun should not be through sacrifice of another's, and right now, that is what you are pursuing.
So the fact that some of us hate Middle Earth and its spawn with a burning, screaming passion has nothing to do with roleplay? I know that when I get a chance to play, I want something besides the core races.I pretty much stick with the core races.
Not my only reason, but one I haven't seen posted yet: for each player drawn by the unique RP opportunities offered by race X, I've seen at least ten for whom it's "Wow, this race has REALLY good stats for the class I want to play."
Which isn't the end of the world, but I don't see much good in encouraging it either.
I don't think Dire Mongoose said you could not do what you wanted, he just said he doesn't allow it in his games. The original post wasn't "should they be allowed or not" it was " what do you do for your games " Dire was sharing what he does. and his experiences. My original post was just snarkyness for pure snarkyness.
But currently, my group of players would lynch me if I allowed a new person to play a noncore race. It is not this group's style. We have done it in the past...but truthfully, my group is tired of ALL races other than human. One reason Pathfinder became popular for my group, was that humans were no longer a suboptimal choice. You were not punished for not playing something from annother plane or an elf or somesuch.
If we want a more diverse game, we don't play Golarion Pathfinder...we play some other game. ( I keep pushing Talislantia, but *sighs* they just don't find it appealing :( )
Greg
I don't think Dire Mongoose said you could not do what you wanted, he just said he doesn't allow it in his games. The original post wasn't "should they be allowed or not" it was " what do you do for your games " Dire was sharing what he does. and his experiences. My original post was just snarkyness for pure snarkyness.
I get that, but it was also stated that no one, so far, has said that their reason for choosing a non-core race was for roleplay; I just wanted to get it across that my whole reason for choosing outside the core was to play something that offered different story opportunities. After running game, after game, I've got all these potential characters in mind that I want to run. So when someone questions the motivations for playing a certain race, I have to fight the urge to type pages of possible character backgrounds.
i would accept any of the races from the bestiaries (except maybe merfolk) with a caveat- they gotta have a good character idea and reason for playing said race, none of this "wow! an aasimar would make a great paladin because +2 to wis and cha".
i also feel the drow, duergar and svirfneblin don't really fit too well as pcs in golarion, and til kingmaker i never liked kobolds very much, still not my favorite but i'm coming around:).
i have a wonderful character idea for a tengu inquisitor of sarenrae.
My current DM is NOT leniant with races. We can pick something from the core and that's it. Personally I find this limiting, but when I confront him, his answer is "If a villager saw that thing in a town He'd kill it."
What is your take on allowing kobolds, tieflings, dhampirs, goblins and other bestiary races as characters?
I think it is comfort issue. Non-standard races normally bring a little more firepower to the table, and a GM should only allow what he can handle. As to your GM's statement the villager would probably run, and tell a guard, but that is the same thing really.
I do allow non-standard races depending on the gameworld, and the story, but I am pretty leneit as a GM. Most things with 0-HD can get in. I will tell the player up front that certain races may not be treated so well.
One of my players is playing an Undine (Bestiary 2) Godling (SSG Class), and it is fun watching the other players making rolls and roleplaying trying to find out what this character is.
Sometimes a little break from the Core Rules can add a bit of fun, excitement, and role playing interaction, a major win in my books.
While my first step is often finding a race best suited to playing a class, or fulfilling a role, my next step is to try to figure out an interesting character that works with it. I made a Drow Fey Sorcerer (and got to use the 3.5 unearthed arcana Doppelganger Bloodline IIRC), I liked the bonuses and powers, but with the bloodline I rolled, i made a really Happy-go-lucky kind of guy that ran away from the Drow society, and with the Doppelganger boost to Disguise, i put ranks in that, and take a 10 every day to look like an Elf.
He's a pretty fun character, pretty goofy, and likes to mess around a lot, and manages to avoid suspicion that he may be "evil". He's also pretty powerful, so i can play him for fun, and slaughter things in combat and then get back to goofing around like my character likes to do.
I find it easier to RP a well built combat machine cause there's very little you can do with "I swing!", "You miss.", "I swing!", "You hit.", "I do 3 damage!" -repeat as needed-
but truthfully, my group is tired of ALL races other than human. One reason Pathfinder became popular for my group, was that humans were no longer a suboptimal choice.
A BIG +1 to that!!
90% of my characters have not been human for just that reason. I find them dull and boring. I can be a human in any game. In a FANTASY game, I want to play an elf or dwarf... Considering we cut out 'level limits' in 2E, there was literally NO reason to ever play a human.
I'm not personally fond of the 'odd' races. I never found anything fun about the book of humanoids in 2E.
Though OTHERS in our group did. The last great campaign we finished... it had both a pixie and a minotaur who were massive roleplayers, who never forgot or ignored that they were a peculiar/freak race... The pixie was chaotic and playful ALL the time... while the minotaur often spent a lot of time hidden outside the town gates to avoid trouble with the guards.
Loved those characters...
Myself, I love the elves... I don't need to stray far from the core book. I'm NOT a fan of the way Pathfinder has treated the elves... but at least I still have my half-elves ;)
REALLY want to play a dwarf again... but of all the character ideas I have right now... none are really picutured as a dwarf. :(
Dhampir might be interesting... I'd love to play an Aasimar (1/2 angel) sometime.... purely for the RP potential... someone who strives to be the epitome of 'good'... but can never measure up as far he's concerned... (Now that I think of it... Kind of like the animated Hercules... Hoping to secure his spot in heaven by being a hero...)
I'm doing the flip side right now... an Infernal sorcerer striving to NOT be evil like his bloodline wants him to be....
As a DM: I looove non-core races. The menagerie of weirdness that players could pull out was my favorite thing about 3.5. I miss it sorely in PF, but you can't have everything. I almost never penalize my players for nonstandard races, and only then if they have something really absurd. I am more likely to punish violence (which some of my players tend towards even with human characters).
As a player: I make sure every non-core character I make has one of two things: high ranks in Intimidate or high ranks in Disguise. I'm rather fond of Tengu (who isn't) and when I play one I just pass him off as a little guy with a big nose. Hats of Disguise are a staple as soon as I can afford them.
I have no problems with a wide variety of races in my game, and I deleted half-orcs something like 30 years ago. With the advent of the 3.0 rules (and the tearing of the curtain), I have truely enjoyed adding new races that occupy interesting places in my world. I see no reason to suppose that races deemed 'Core' or somehow 'sacred' are any better than my own. I make an array of house rules because they fit my game better than Core, RAW or RAI.
I have little problem with appropriate weirdness. Weirdness out of the blue tends to be pretty dumb, but for example I would really like to find a way to make minotaurs reasonably balanced for play for plot reasons (there's a lot going on in my world that involves the systematic persecution of minotaur tribes and whether they count as 'people'). What I don't like is weirdness for its own sake or the imbalance and cherry-picking that can come with it.
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Personally I prefer to stick to core races.
However, if a player had a compelling argument why I might allow it but would just say it had the stats of a human and just role play the racial aspect. Humans are so flexible you really can make what you want out of them, and this would weed out someone just looking for mechanical benefits too.
So the fact that some of us hate Middle Earth and its spawn with a burning, screaming passion has nothing to do with roleplay?
Correct. Those two things don't have anything to do with each other. They're completely orthogonal.
Although if you'd said "I think I can breathe a lot more life into a character that isn't an elf/dwarf/orc/hobbit" I'd have to say that's relevant, and maybe you're that eleventh guy who's all about RPing the hell out of an ifrit.
My current DM is NOT leniant with races. We can pick something from the core and that's it. Personally I find this limiting, but when I confront him, his answer is "If a villager saw that thing in a town He'd kill it."
What is your take on allowing kobolds, tieflings, dhampirs, goblins and other bestiary races as characters?
As a fellow GM, I agree with your current one. I do not allow odd races for the most part. It is hard enough to not play another race as a "human in another skin." But, to further go down the pat of a monstrous or socially out of place race, takes even more role playing skill.
I'm not saying it isn't fun. The "stranger in a strange land" is certainly fun. But, I tell people that up front that they will have social stigmas and NPC reaction problems. Then I give them a day or two to think about it. A tiefling in Mendev is going to encounter social prejudge or even out right social persecution. As GM, I don't like to have to play NPCs against a player all the time. It is not fun for me and it takes a strong person to realize that I'm not trying to pick on you. I'm just trying to be believable.
For the people that can pull it off, it is fun though and it will create a character that has a strong resonating chord in you.
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Something on the note of social stigmas and prejudices:
I'm not going to say it's wrong; within reason it helps bring the world to life. But don't forget about the PC's deeds. If the player had gone the distance and the PC has risked life and limb repeatedly for the sake of others, it should have an effect. The prejudice and distrust may not disappear entirely, but an orc or tiefling that has saved some villagers several times over ought to be viewed differently after what they've done.
Just a bit of frustration seeping through, as I've both seen talk online discussing how some GMs never let the actions of the PC matter, no matter what, and have also experienced it firsthand with other players who continued to treat someone of race _________ like dirt regardless of all the times he/she saved their lives.
It's one thing to have the deck stacked against you and having to work for your place in the world. It's another to have absolutely no hope of bettering the situation.
Something on the note of social stigmas and prejudices:
I'm not going to say it's wrong; within reason it helps bring the world to life. But don't forget about the PC's deeds. If the player had gone the distance and the PC has risked life and limb repeatedly for the sake of others, it should have an effect. The prejudice and distrust may not disappear entirely, but an orc or tiefling that has saved some villagers several times over ought to be viewed differently after what they've done.
Just a bit of frustration seeping through, as I've both seen talk online discussing how some GMs never let the actions of the PC matter, no matter what, and have also experienced it firsthand with other players who continued to treat someone of race _________ like dirt regardless of all the times he/she saved their lives.
It's one thing to have the deck stacked against you and having to work for your place in the world. It's another to have absolutely no hope of bettering the situation.
Well, unless your game is set in the Marvel Universe.
*rimshot*
I'm pretty lenient as a DM, anything that makes sense in the Forgotten Realms setting I allow, meaning any elemental planetouched race is allowed and I'll listen to requests for tieflings, aasimar, or drow, and when I DM Planescape anything planar is negotiable. On the other hand, I nearly always play humans as a player, and feel that playing even an elf or dwarf is a big challenge.
I feel that putting myself into character for a human in a fantasy land is tough, especially one who might know magic or have experienced things we could never imagine, but getting into the mindset of an elf or dwarf is much, much harder. Their mindsets should be far removed from a human mindset, they are motivated by different base desires, see the flow of time, and everything based on time, much differently, and even have senses that work much differently than ours. All of these physical and mental differences, as well as the massive cultural differences, are part of why I feel playing an elf or dwarf should be something very, very different than playing a human, and am a little frustrated how often such beings are played as funny skinned humans with different abilities or as humans with a single defining stereotype.
Typically races outside the player's handbook are either more alien or are humans with a bit of other blood. If the race is even more different from humans than an elf or dwarf already is I am less than confident that someone can play one in a way that gets this difference across, and am more wary of allowing it, while if a race is half or mostly human I don't feel it matters as much.
My current DM is NOT leniant with races. We can pick something from the core and that's it. Personally I find this limiting, but when I confront him, his answer is "If a villager saw that thing in a town He'd kill it."What is your take on allowing kobolds, tieflings, dhampirs, goblins and other bestiary races as characters?
Hostile races (i.e. Orcs) are a no-go. City guard / watch will slice and dice. After that any non-human is going to get a certain amount of prejudice (from mild - say a Dwarf - to fearful hostility - for a half-Ogre) just because they're different (and yes, this includes core races). Really unusual races are going to be difficult to use effectively due to this. Larger cities are more cosmopolitan about it, villages much less so (unless they have a resident of similar race and are used to them).
PCs can, and have, tried a number of races (Centaurs, Goblins, and Half Ogres)if they don't mind digging into the races background in my game and playing it right for the setting. Having said that my game is a home brew setting and relations between races are different than the norm. There is a Goblin ghetto in my main human city for example and although they are subject to considerable prejudice they fit in by doing menial / unpleasant jobs and sticking to their own quarter. Half Orcs are viewed with distaste, Dwarves with suspicion and Elves (and Half Elves) with envy. Centaurs are considered arrogant (and in my world tend to be) and apt to overindulge. Goblins are a bit crazy and less than reliable. Half Ogres are just plain mean and scary. Nobody has opted for anything more exotic than these.
What is your take on allowing kobolds, tieflings, dhampirs, goblins and other bestiary races as characters?
For the most part, I'm gonna have to agree with Mikaze: It depends both on the exact race, and where you are.
So the fact that some of us hate Middle Earth and its spawn with a burning, screaming passion has nothing to do with roleplay? I know that when I get a chance to play, I want something besides the core races.
You, too?
Actually, I should clarify: I don't hate Middle Earth, per se. It's fine in its place (that is, as a specific and distinct setting). But the way that its influence has gotten all over the fantasy genre is doing more harm than good.
Then I'm sure you wouldn't mind, when asking to play an ifrit, that you are told you can so long as you count as humanoid instead of outsider and don't get the sorcerer bonus? :)
Not in the least.
I find that how well it goes down in a game also depends on the rest of the party. If one of your party of six happens to be a tiefling rogue, or an orc barbarian, he'll get odd looks. But when you've got your human paladin doing all the talking, people are more apt to just dismiss you as 'one of those strange adventurers' or ignore you altogether.
However, when the drow wizard, the ogre barbarian, the goblin rogue, the lizardfolk ranger, the ghoul fighter, and the half-dragon cleric walk into town, people are going to notice, and probably react with pitchforks and fire, if not outright military action from the city.
I find that how well it goes down in a game also depends on the rest of the party. If one of your party of six happens to be a tiefling rogue, or an orc barbarian, he'll get odd looks. But when you've got your human paladin doing all the talking, people are more apt to just dismiss you as 'one of those strange adventurers' or ignore you altogether.
However, when the drow wizard, the ogre barbarian, the goblin rogue, the lizardfolk ranger, the ghoul fighter, and the half-dragon cleric walk into town, people are going to notice, and probably react with pitchforks and fire, if not outright military action from the city.
Everyone looks to the half-dragon as they enter town. "Your doing the talking you might live long enough for the diplomacy check"
With some background you can fit almost any race into play. For example if your race was hunted in this area he would much likely have some sort of disguise. You just gotta be creative and be prepared that if something goes wrong your character dies. But if by the time your group finds out who you really are, has gotten to know you better they might accept you nevertheless.
Just last weekend I started playing as a Troll, because I was curious how the regeneration ability would affect play (both game and role play).
First I gave him a good reason why he was not living like normal trolls and why he'd try his luck fitting in with "civilised" people.
To circumvent NPCs and such PCs from killing him on sight I gave him a hat of disguise he picked up from a group of hiding thieves he met in the forest. The hat makes him look like an elf (although a very large, hunched over elf, who can't speak elven and has no elvish manerisms at all... it got the group puzzled for a while. Was funny ^^)
Troll is of course an extreme case. Other races can blend in more easily. They might just need mundane measures to hide horns, fangs, etc. And if you are hideously ugly you can of course say you have a long lasting disfiguring disease and such.
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In general, I prefer core races unless I specifically say anything goes. (Current party: ghaele eladrin, dragonblooded changling, catfolk, lizardfolk, elf, half-elf, human.)
However, with consideration I would allow non-core races. And while they might be handled carefully, a single monstrous character will not be murdered on sight. Only if there is a large number of them will things like gnolls and lizardfolk be treated with open hostility.