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| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Tonight one of my players was shocked to be reminded his Eidolon doesn't heal naturally -- and it just received 6 points of CON damage from a couple of venomous snake attacks.
So, now he's stuck: there does not seem to be a way to heal ability damage on an Eidolon without resorting to magic. That means ability damage to an Eidolon is permanent unless one burns up slots on spells known with spells from Ultimate Magic or begs for/gains the privilege of a restoration spell.
This does not seem fair nor well thought out design-wise. My player likes the Summoner in general, but the above issue is one of several that have made me decide in future campaigns to ban this class. It never was to my taste -- too contrived compared to other class concepts IMO -- but I didn't want players to be restricted because how I felt about it. However, I am getting very frustrated adjudicating a class feature that creates problems at the table -- the healing issue above is the latest we've experienced. The hit point inconsistencies before and after errata where the worst for us.
The root offending RAW for me: "the Eidolon doesn't heal naturally". This. Makes. No. Sense. There's no qualification, so taken RAW, it blows for the Eidolon. Surely it is natural in its home plane...?
Typically all other outsiders can heal on their home plane in some fashion RAW or RAI. So I am forced to house rule the Eidolon heals ability damage naturally on its home plane -- where ever that is -- but not on the Prime Material plane. This is the kind of rules detail that should have been obvious on play testing IMO.
Sorry if I'm grumpy, it's 1:15 a.m., and that's how it looks to me.
Anyone know of a solution that does not require magic, or a house rule?
I'm pretty sure most outsiders still heal naturally whether they're on their plane or not. Eidolons are just an exception.
Healing ability damage requires either lesser restore eidolon or lesser restoration. If there's a cleric in the party, that might be the best option, though you can certainly just houserule that the eidolon does heal naturally.
If the character is so reliant on the eidolon, it was a mistake to not take those spells or to aquire a scroll (or several) or wand for such occasions when it was needed. This just poor judgement and or laziness on the players part (not reading the class and its abilities) sorry to say.
If they cannot do it, the party cleric should have the ability to repair such damage.
If a cleric isn't an option, kill off the eidolon. It will be available the next day at half hit points minus the ability damage unless you are being particularly harsh and saying it comes back from the dead with the ability damage still in effect.
I was also wondering how an Eidolon recovers from negative levels to zero. If you die from negative levels to zero, you're permanently dead. So how do you recover them if you can never summon your eidolon again because it is permanently dead?
The Eidolon lack of natural healing was such a dumb way to design the eidolon. I'll never quite understand why they chose to make it that way. There was no reason as far as balance goes. It doesn't even fit the flavor of the eidolon since no other outsiders work in that fashion. Sometimes I completely don't understand a game designer's decision process. It makes no sense.
The Eidolon is an Outsider, if it "dies" of negative levels on the Prime Material Plane it simply returns and reforms "alive" on it's own home plane (which is never known so the chances of the party being ON that plane are incredibly remote) Therefore if your Eidolon dies from Ability damage, negative levels of Hit point damage it is reformed on its home plane back to normal, just like a Fiend that gets killed on the Prime Material Plane.
So if you Eidolon dies you just summon him again and he's back to full health. (Not feasible in combat since it's a minute long process) Though your DM might make a ruling on how LONG it takes your Eidolon to reform.
In the situations where it doesn't DIE the Summoner is equipped with a huge assortment of spells to heal and restore their Eidolon. That's pretty much your JOB as the summoner.
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When an eidolon dies, it can be summoned the following day at half hit points. It says nothing about healing any other type of damage. The only way to get rid of eidolon's ability damage is with magic.
Keep a scroll of Purified Calling on hand for emergencies.
I assume two or three applications of lesser restoration can't solve the problem of ability damage for some reason? I know that there's a version especially for the eidolon, but I've not been able to find anything that directly states that they cannot be affected by normal cures, restores, and positive energy.
So:
Your player doesn't read the entry of the class he's playing very well and therefore doesn't plan for his Eidolon to take ability damage and so.. you are going to ban the class?
Why not smack him upside the head with a thick rule book (the CRB comes to mind, and is handy for that) and go from there?
Every class has strong points and weaknesses and its up to the PLAYER to read their class throughly, gain an understanding of those points, and balance it out.
Your player screwed up. Great. Next time he levels he can take the appropriate spell and fix it himself. Until then, he can (nicely) ask the cleric, or pay a cleric in town, to fix the problem.
No ban required.
Rather- require everyone to *read the entire class* they choose before they choose it. The game just works so much more smoothly that way.
-S
Do the fair and logical thing. Let the eidolon heal naturally. If animal companions can do it then why should the superior pet class be hung up on this?
Sorry, but this is in no way comparable. You can't just call back an injured animal companion every day like you can a Eidolon. An eidolon is far more resilient and powerful than a simple animal companion. If your animal companion dies, you have to spend 24 hours doing nothing else to get another one. If your eidolon dies, you can just resummon it the next day. It not healing naturally is truly the ONLY drawback to an eidolon, so letting it heal naturally really makes your eidolon be over powered.
This is from my experience running a campaign with an ediolon for a few months now. Its a REALLY powerful ability if you don't put some drawbacks and stick to them, and it really can come to overshadow the rest of the party if your not careful with it.
One thing that those of you suggesting acquisition of wands or scrolls of the spells required to fix up an ability damaged or level drained eidolon is that the problem is most acute at very low levels, when a player character cannot afford such things. Ultimate Magic took care of ability score damage for Summoners of level 4+ -- that Lesser Restore Eidolon spell is one that no Summoner should be without unless he is willing to count on always having a Cleric or Paladin of sufficient level around. Level draining is far more problematical, since it is possible to drain an eidolon of levels to the point that it is "forever dead" -- then what is the Summoner to do?
In our home games, the solution of killing the eidolon in such situations worked well -- especially given that a Summoner really does not want to have to kill somebody that he is in constant telepathic contact with. Maybe, for players who show no empathy for what their characters are going through, there should be some sort of mechanical effect on the Summoner in such cases?
In our home games, the solution of killing the eidolon in such situations worked well -- especially given that a Summoner really does not want to have to kill somebody that he is in constant telepathic contact with. Maybe, for players who show no empathy for what their characters are going through, there should be some sort of mechanical effect on the Summoner in such cases?
You mean that creature he/she knows for a fact will come back in a few hours. That creature that accepted the bond in the first place, basically knowing it is putting its outsiders rear end on the line for the summoner?
Summoner: I'm really sorry about this, but seeing as I came unprepared for the situations we are in I'm going to let you sit around gimped until I can figure out what to do about it.
Eidolon: "See you tomorrow boss..." *realizes it bonded with a moron and wanders off to get itself killed to remove the penalties from this conjured body and get a couple hours break on its home plane from said moron*
I do not understand your reference to the Summoner as a moron if he is below 4th level -- there is absolutely no way for a Summoner to deal with ability score damage until either (1) He or somebody else in the party is able to cast Lesser Restoration or Lesser Restore Eidolon, or (2) He collects enough treasure to afford paying somebody else to cast it. This problem was worse before the publication of Ultimate Magic. I don't know where you and other people get the idea that even very low level characters can afford to buy whatever magic items they need.
In the situations where I resorted to killing the eidolon to deal with ability score damage, my Summoner did the deed himself -- although he did prefer to have the eidolon unconscious when he did it -- either from hit point damage or from a concoction provided by the party Alchemist. After all -- do you really want to be on the receiving end of telepathic messages from somebody who is being killed? That is what I was getting at in my earlier posting.
Problem with that is it relies on a party still having access to somewhere to purchase those items / services. If your a party of lvl 1 characters starting on something like the serpents skull campaign those aren't really options and the way our GM was running it there was a ton of ability damaging poisons etc cropping up in the jungle.For our summoner the GM ran it that the ability damaged healed on its home plane when it was unsummoned at the normal rate. This also meant were it to die it would still come back with the appropriate amount of ability damage so no killing it and then resummoning it the following day with all the ability damage healed (intentionally killing something bonded to a party member the way an eidolon is didn't really sit well with the party).
So the DM (un)?intentionally screwed over the party/summoner. Didn't run it as written and made house rules, not problem with the summoner rules. The game is BUILT on the assumption magical items and spells are available. I understand some people don't like it and restrict it, but again changing that fact alters and ripples down in ways like this. This becomes a problem with the way the DM is running it, not a "problem" with the rules. He or she changed a fundamental and didn't give anything back to the PCs to compensate.