Hi all. Forgive me if this quesiton has been posted before.
The party I'm GMing has captured a band of C-E brigands and has had them thrown in the local jail. One of my players, a L-G cleric with a heart of gold, is interested in redeeming their leader through a series of meetings & discussions regarding the merits of his religion, hope for a better future, etc.
So my question is... how do I handle this? The rules do not cover alignment change, other than through magical means. What skill check(s) are needed? What's the DC? How many days/weeks/months should it take? How much XP should I award the player if it's successful? How will the player know if it will never be successful, i.e. the villain is unredeemable?
Thanks.
Not every villain can be redeemed. Use your good judgment if its possible and what it would take. Is just talking really enough, especially for a CE villain?
There don't have to be rules for everything. Seriously, sometimes I wonder why there aren't more threads like "Help, there are no rules for breathing, how can my character survive the first 5 minutes?"
Attempting to rehabilitate a vicious scumbag isn't going to be easy.
As GM, you may want to decide how committed the bandit is to his beliefs. Is there a reason why he turned toward darkness and chaos? Did some terrible event in his history convince him that life has no meaning? What hidden anger motivates him? Is he just a sociopath?
Keep in mind, even someone who is evil may have people he likes. He may pretend to change to serve his own purposes or just becase he doesn't want to disappoint the naïve fool who gave him a break. A bandit may choose to nominally "repent" while still harboring a murderous worldview. Alternatively, he may turn from banditry while still being something of a jerk.
I'd agree with the idea that they would have to learn about the bandits' past and see what caused their fall to devilry.
Perhaps that will illuminate a way to help them find redemption, after all not everyone is without hope but its better to remain guarded for after all for every soul that could be saved there is always one that defies reason and seeks harm for no better reason than their own bitter enjoyment, these manipulate such people simply out of a perverse need to prove their superiority even when its for their own betterment and they're just unwilling to accept it as such.
This is a quest that has the potential to be rewarding but not without matching perils.
God I wish i could type that and not sound so philosophical!
All villains can bee redeemed! Simply return your villain to the service counter with the original receipt...
I would say that the checks your character makes for the meetings would be Diplomacy. The villain is basically starting our as hostile to your cleric and the cleric's ideals- if the cleric can change the hostile bandit to friendly, there will be a better chance of the bandit repenting. Maybe also Sense Motive to ensure the bandit really has changed.
I agree with the others though that there may be story reasons why the villains won't or can't change from being evil. That's your call as GM. I also wouldn't allow this line of reasoning on a creature with the Evil subtype like demons.
Also what does your LG cleric understand under redeeming?
Turn him from CE to CN?
To N?
Or has to to be LG?
Or stay CE but feel bad about what he did?
Would going to NE be a good step already?
All of those would have different difficulties.
I'd say all of them require that first he feels bad about what he did and wants to change. Then change to CN is the easiest (but still pretty hard), while to actual LG is bordering on the impossible.
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Some general advice:
- Decide what motivates the brigand leader (besides getting out of jail), if anything. It could be a turning point in the conversation, if the player makes mention of it.
- Similarly, decide what aggravates the brigand leader, or causes them to 'shut down' during conversation, if anything.
- Decide whether the brigand leader already worships a deity (in which case they could be more difficult to convert--especially if the deity is morally opposing the player's deity).
- If you've decided that the brigand leader has any strong beliefs (that would manifest outwardly, even involuntarily) consider allowing your player a sense motive check to pick up on said cues.
- Attempt to roleplay through at least some of the conversation and follow the roleplaying with the dice rolls.
- Diplomacy and Knowledge (Religion) are probably optimal choices here. If you can't find DCs, approximate fair DCs based on similarities and differences between the converter and the desired convert.
- If the attempt is unsuccessful, consider having the brigand leader convince the player of the opposite, to further their escape plans. =)
There don't have to be rules for everything. Seriously, sometimes I wonder why there aren't more threads like "Help, there are no rules for breathing, how can my character survive the first 5 minutes?"
Right, I get that. But I don't want to just tell him, "Okay, you talk to him for a while and he redeems." I want there to be some sort of element of chance. My question was what skills come into play, how many, and in what order? Also, what DC should I use?
Seems like there should be a series of Diplomacy checks. Seems also like there should be some sort of Knowledge [Religion] check in there somewhere.
I want them to roleplay, but I don't want it to be an automatic win. Get what I mean?