Hey all, quick question:
In the book, it says that to cast a Somatic spell, you need one free hand to gesture. A Heavy shield is too much for this, definitely, but a light shield lets you "use your hand to carry [items]."
Could a Cleric use a Light shield and cast spells with a weapon in their other hand?
Conversely, what if I as a DM ruled that a Cleric's holy symbol could be on their shield? Would that work (to obsolete the use of a Divine Focus?)
Thanks!
Weapon cords were made specifically for this.
You could use your semi free hand with a light shield to cast the spell
There's no rule i know of for what sort of action it is to pass something back and forth between hands, like say magnetizing your mace , sticking it onto your shield, casting, and picking it back up.
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Hey all, quick question:
In the book, it says that to cast a Somatic spell, you need one free hand to gesture. A Heavy shield is too much for this, definitely, but a light shield lets you "use your hand to carry [items]."
Could a Cleric use a Light shield and cast spells with a weapon in their other hand?
Conversely, what if I as a DM ruled that a Cleric's holy symbol could be on their shield? Would that work (to obsolete the use of a Divine Focus?)
Thanks!
I think that if a spell requires a divine focus (DF) but no somatic components, then the cleric can grasp the divine focus with his light shield hand, without surrendering the weapon. I would argue that any spell with a somatic component would require a truly free hand (not just a hand that can grasp something). The hand/arm needs to gesture intricately.
As a GM, I couldn't see a problem letting the player use their shield as their divine focus. Just make sure they role play it a little: The shield should bear the symbol of their god, it should probably be blessed, it should probably be fancy (maybe add a little to the cost), etc. I would also rule that the cleric cannot gain his shield's bonus in any round in which he uses the shield as his divine focus. The same for using the shield's hand to "carry" or hold something. To be effective, the shield must be grasped firmly.
I allways said yes to light and bucket for free hand but you still need hand for a material copoent or diven focus.
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One way to figure out how something does or does not work is to read up on similar things. For instance, if you read the description of the buckler, it specifically says (among a list of other things), that the hand is free to cast spells with somatic components. Meanwhile, the light shield lists only the ability to carry things. Thus, I think it's reasonable to believe that the things listed for the buckler and not the light shield (such as being able to cast somatic spells) can be done with the buckler but not the light shield.
And since the buckler and light shield offer the same protection, I suggest that unless you want to shield bash, you just use the buckler. ;)
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You could also use the Birthmark trait, which functions as a divine focus and can be used with no hand slot.
Not a bad idea; I haven't played with that trait, but it sure sounds good.
Get a heavy shield in one hand, a buckler in the other, and cast through your birthmark (using the buckler hand for somatic gestures as needed). You'll be like a piece of artillery. ;)
Clerics and heavy shields, no no no
Clerics and light shields, yes yes yes
When you are weilding a light shield and a weapon you can cast spells with somatic components, mechanically you 1)use a free action to switch your weapon to your shield hand 2)cast the spell 3)use a free action to move your weapon from your shield hand to the other.
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Clerics and heavy shields, no no no
Clerics and light shields, yes yes yes
When you are weilding a light shield and a weapon you can cast spells with somatic components, mechanically you 1)use a free action to switch your weapon to your shield hand 2)cast the spell 3)use a free action to move your weapon from your shield hand to the other.
If you're going this route anyway (and I agree; I wouldn't use a heavy shield on my cleric either), why not make it a buckler instead of a light shield? Same AC bonus and ACP, you don't have to move your weapon around, and you gain other options like being able to use a bow/crossbow without penalty if need be. Basically, the only downside of a Buckler as compared to a Light Shield is the inability to do a Shield Bash, which I'm guessing you weren't going to do anyway.
EDIT: If you couldn't tell, I'm a big fan of bucklers. ;)
Clerics and heavy shields, no no no
Clerics and light shields, yes yes yes
When you are weilding a light shield and a weapon you can cast spells with somatic components, mechanically you 1)use a free action to switch your weapon to your shield hand 2)cast the spell 3)use a free action to move your weapon from your shield hand to the other.If you're going this route anyway (and I agree; I wouldn't use a heavy shield on my cleric either), why not make it a buckler instead of a light shield? Same AC bonus and ACP, you don't have to move your weapon around, and you gain other options like being able to use a bow/crossbow without penalty if need be. Basically, the only downside of a Buckler as compared to a Light Shield is the inability to do a Shield Bash, which I'm guessing you weren't going to do anyway.
EDIT: If you couldn't tell, I'm a big fan of bucklers. ;)
2 reasons:
1) Shield bashing.2) i don't like how bucklers look.
2 reasons:
1) Shield bashing.I did say "if you're not planning on shield bashing". Naturally, that changes the whole equation. :)
2) i don't like how bucklers look.In Soviet Russia... meh, nevermind.
Yes you did say it, i just wanted to make my post clearer.
In Soviet Russia what?
IN soviet Russia bucklers choose if they wear you! (and they are vain.)
==Aelryinth
In Soviet Russia what?2) i don't like how bucklers look.In Soviet Russia... meh, nevermind.In Soviet Russia, bucklers don't like how YOU look.
(Don't worry if you're confused; it's just a really old meme.)
I don't get it...... and i am confused......
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Usually the idea behind the light shield is that you can hold your weapon in that hand and use your now free hand to cast the spell with.
There is usually some discussion as to what switching a weapon from hand to hand is (free action, swift action, move action?) and all that. Most folks just ignore it and let the game continue moving forward then worry about it.
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Back in the day (how old are you?), there was a meme called a "Russian Reversal", where someone makes a comment and you reply by saying "In Soviet Russia..." and restate their original comment with the subject and object switching places in the sentence.
So "I don't like how bucklers look" becomes "In Soviet Russia, bucklers don't like how YOU look."
EDIT: Ninja'd. Also, I feel old.
I don't get it...... and i am confused......In Soviet Russia what?2) i don't like how bucklers look.In Soviet Russia... meh, nevermind.In Soviet Russia, bucklers don't like how YOU look.
(Don't worry if you're confused; it's just a really old meme.)
Yakov Smirnoff started the whole thing. Go to the bottom of his wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakov_Smirnoff
==Aelryinth
In Soviet Russia what?2) i don't like how bucklers look.In Soviet Russia... meh, nevermind.In Soviet Russia, bucklers don't like how YOU look.
(Don't worry if you're confused; it's just a really old meme.)
Oh god now I'm going to have to do an intelligent communist buckler.
Back in the day (how old are you?), there was a meme called a "Russian Reversal", where someone makes a comment and you reply by saying "In Soviet Russia..." and restate their original comment with the subject and object switching places in the sentence.
So "I don't like how bucklers look" becomes "In Soviet Russia, bucklers don't like how YOU look."
EDIT: Ninja'd. Also, I feel old.
Just turned 21.
How old is that meme?|
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Clerics and heavy shields, no no no
Clerics and light shields, yes yes yes
When you are weilding a light shield and a weapon you can cast spells with somatic components, mechanically you 1)use a free action to switch your weapon to your shield hand 2)cast the spell 3)use a free action to move your weapon from your shield hand to the other.
JJ position on that.
I have a bit more problem when the sequence is something like this:
1) left hand shield right hand weapon
2) grab your weapon with the left hand and release it with your right
3) pick up your spell components
4) somatic gesture and cast spell (possibly doing a touch attack too)
5) pass back your weapon from left to right
6) be ready to do your attacks of opportunity
7) in the meantime move your full movementMy opinion is that there are too many "free actions" in there. I would limit the guy doing that to a 5' adjustment and not full movement .
My opinion is that that's an awful lot of clutter going on in the middle of a combat, and that I would indeed become annoyed at a player trying to do all of that at once because it slows down the game.
My take: you can do two of these three things in a round:
1) cast a spell
2) gain AC from a buckler or light shield
3) threaten with a weapon so you can take attacks of opportunityPick the two you want and that's the two you get.
And in the 2nd edition of Pathifnder, I'd champion adding "switch objects held in hands" to be a swift action, which would limit you to doing one per round.
J
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Back in the day (how old are you?), there was a meme called a "Russian Reversal", where someone makes a comment and you reply by saying "In Soviet Russia..." and restate their original comment with the subject and object switching places in the sentence.
So "I don't like how bucklers look" becomes "In Soviet Russia, bucklers don't like how YOU look."
EDIT: Ninja'd. Also, I feel old.
Just turned 21.
How old is that meme?
Apparently it's from the mid-80's. Cripes.
*sulks in corner, then goes to look for a cane*
Oh god now I'm going to have to do an intelligent communist buckler.
Oh, that's brilliant. Every time you don't offer your coin to help impoverished street urchins, the buckler gets you in a contest of wills -- when you wake up, your coinpurse is empty and you're standing in line with a slip of paper waiting to get a loaf of bread from someone who will tell you the paper's expired. :)
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Could just be me but I haven't seen anything that says you actually need to hold the DF in your hand. Just that you need to have it and and you need to be able to see it.
Wow, that's an interesting point. I remembered reading something about needing to present your holy symbol, but now that I look at it, that line was for Channeling and I can find no such reference for spells. The closest is that spells with a "DF" component, but as you said, it only says you need to "have" it. Interesting.
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To me it just wouldn't make sense if for instance I wanted to cast aid that I have one hand for the focus, one hand for somatic component, and a third hand to touch. Forget weapons and shield.
Generally the DF is used as part of the hand gestures and you can use the hand holding it to deliver the touch attack.
You go something like:
"Feel the wrath of Iomeade", grab the holy symbol in your right hand, present it forcefully and then touch your target with it.
Deliver your touch spell.
The only problem is having that free hand at the start of the casting, so you switch your weapon to the shield hand and can't do AoO after your round end.
If a ruling says the DF has to be held in hand it would seem to need to be in the other hand.
It never says it has to be held in hand. Just like Material and Focus components, you just need to have them. I think it's assumed that preparing your spell components and gesturing is all part of the standard action used to cast a spell. It doesn't say the measured and precise movement of the hand (somatic component) takes up the entire action.
Standard Action: Cast Ghoul Touch. You grab the earth from a ghoul's lair from your spell component pouch, speak the rotting words of arcana, forming your hand into a twisted claw as the earth rains down, flaring into tiny motes of blackness, which swirl around and imbue you with negative energy. You reach out and in a morbidly gentle way, caress your target, as they seize up and a foul odor cascades from their pores.
Same thing with a Cleric casting Poison, only without the pouch. Cast, gesture, speak, fiddle with holy symbol, poke someone, all part of the same action, and all only requiring one free hand.
Interesting.
I operated under the hold-your-holy-symbol-in-"free"-hand assumption, and so assumed the point of the Ultimate Magic "Create Reliquary Arms and Shields" feat was to allow you to hold both weapon and shield and still cast, since one (made with the feat) could count as your holy symbol.