I have a problem with the Hidden master ability because if I use 2 ki to become invisible and I can't be detected any way I'm guaranteed to get my sneak damage and if I trade out my sneak damage to deal 10 points of con damage then the enemy loses 5 HP per HD plus it doesn't state you have to use this greater invisibility ability to deal the ability damage and if you do a high lv campaign where you get to 20th lv your gonna be fighting stuff with 26-30 HD (at least in my experience)so your getting rid of at least 130 hit point plus whatever damage you deal and even if that ability damage doesn't stack with it's self in one score you're going to be dealing over 130ish damage but if it's a crit you could deal a horrible amount of damage plus it does not state that you can't effect more then one ability score at a time only that you can't effect the same ability score more then once so then you go after str,wis,or int depending on what you are fighting and in 2 attacks you can make a 26-30 HD monster useless by making what your fighting lose 5 to hit and damage or poss 7 to damage if they use a 2 handed weapon or you can make a spell caster lose spells making him alot worse whether he just loses a few spells that day or if he has an int under 29 he will lose the ability to cast spells of a certain level(s) completely also you could render feats unusable example: if you use it on dex they could lose the ability to use 3 attacks with their off hand wep which would make the character not quite as usable
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Holy run on sentence, Batman! Stopped reading after the first line. Lets try this in a readable manner...
I have a problem with the Hidden master ability. If I use 2 ki to become invisible, and I can't be detected any way, I'm guaranteed to get my sneak damage. If I trade out my sneak damage to deal 10 points of con damage, then the enemy loses 5 HP per HD plus it doesn't state you have to use this greater invisibility ability to deal the ability damage.If you do a high lv campaign where you get to 20th lv your gonna be fighting stuff with 26-30 HD (at least in my experience). So your getting rid of at least 130 hit points, plus whatever damage you deal. Even if that ability damage doesn't stack with it's self, in one score you're going to be dealing over 130ish damage; but if it's a crit you could deal a horrible amount of damage!
Plus it does not state that you can't effect more then one ability score at a time, only that you can't effect the same ability score more then once. So then you go after str,wis,or int depending on what you are fighting, and in 2 attacks you can make a 26-30 HD monster useless. How? By making what your fighting lose 5 to hit and damage (possibly 7 to damage if they use a 2 handed weapon). You can make a spell caster lose spells, making him a lot worse. Whether he just loses a few spells that day or if he has an int under 19 he will lose the ability to cast spells of a certain level(s) completely.
Also you could render feats unusable. For example: if you use it on dex they could lose the ability to use 3 attacks with their off hand wep which would make the character not quite as usable
*edited by Kabump
Now, lets address this. First off, I'm assuming you are talking about the Ninja level 20 capstone ability. You never mention this specifically, but I was able to figure it out :)
Pretty simple, its a level 20 ability, and a powerful one at that. Point is, capstone abilities are SUPPOSED to be awesome. And high level creatures have plenty of other defenses to prevent such things. Now I will be the first to admit I have very little high level experience, but a quick perusal through the B1 and B2, I see that there are things that are immune to ability damage/drain, or have multitude of other offensive/defensive abilities not tied to their stats. Or they will have a friend who will be quite pissed off by said trick and murder the rest of the party while the ninja id off being sneaky sneaky.
Considering the levels at which you obtain the ability, it seems perfectly fine to me.
A lot of high end creatures have ability scores in the 30s. Losing 10 points does surprisingly little against their overall effectiveness (especially since many monsters at high levels have multiple attack forms).
Your right that some things can't be stat drained but if you run a ninja like I would/did in 3.5 is with 2 wep fighting so by that time I'm doing 6 attacks (or at this lv I will be doing at least 3 attacks) now I may miss on hits hell I prob will but how many monsters that have the ability to not be effected by ability drain plus with each hit I make that is one ability score down by 10 assuming I have greater invisibility which I would more then likely be using or if I'm flanking unless they have a certain feat I believe it is uncanny dodge but I don't remember off the top of my head so for each hit I do that is 1 enemy effected by a minus 10 to an ability score and now that constructs (although I do think that they can't be effected by ability drain) and undead can be affected by sneak attack damage not many creatures won't be able to be effected unless the creature is house rued by the GM so I can effectively destroy all of a creatures ability scores in 1-3 turns depending on rolls I get if i 2 wep fight 2-5 if I use one wep while a creature could cast a restoration spell but the fastest one takes 4 rounds to cast (lesser restoration and only does 1d4 points) or you could take a potion of lesser restoration but the only one you can buy (unless the GM house rules) is lesser restoration which again is only 1d4 points restored
Considering the levels at which you obtain the ability, it seems perfectly fine to me.
A lot of high end creatures have ability scores in the 30s. Losing 10 points does surprisingly little against their overall effectiveness (especially since many monsters at high levels have multiple attack forms).
I don't care what your fighting if you can deal 130ish damage in one hit that is a huge deal
I don't care what your fighting if you can deal 130ish damage in one hit that is a huge deal
When compared to a high level fighter (stunning assault) or spellcaster (flesh to stone) that can take a creature out of the fight in one hit, no, it really isn't.
I don't care what your fighting if you can deal 130ish damage in one hit that is a huge dealConsidering the levels at which you obtain the ability, it seems perfectly fine to me.
A lot of high end creatures have ability scores in the 30s. Losing 10 points does surprisingly little against their overall effectiveness (especially since many monsters at high levels have multiple attack forms).
I suggest trying level 20 sometime, hell a cavalier can charge for over 300 damage every round if built right, if you have two with the massed charge ability they can each do it twice a round.
Things get crazy wonky at this level
Hidden Master (Su): At 20th level, the ninja becomes
a true master of her art. She can, as a standard action,
cast greater invisibility on herself. While invisible in this
way, she cannot be detected by any means, and not even
invisibility purge, see invisibility, and true seeing can reveal
her. She uses her ninja level as her caster level for this
ability. Using this ability consumes 2 ki points from her
ki pool. In addition, whenever the ninja deals sneak attack
damage, she can sacrifice additional damage dice to apply
a penalty to one ability score of the target equal to the
number of dice sacrificed. This penalty does not stack
with itself and cannot reduce an ability score below 1.
i think just tore the OP's argument apart with the bolded part of this quote from the ultimate combat round 1 playtest.
if this ability is overpowered at 20th level, does that mean that ray of enfeeblement is too good at 1st level?
or is it too powerful because the ninja is not a spellcaster and does not deserve nice things?
At that time, it doesnt really matter if the penalty stacks with itself or not. You deal 10d6 SA, that makes 10 ability drain on one hit. After that, you can apply (if you took the feats) 10 bleed and 1 point DEX/STR drain per hit. So with TWF or flurry of stars you can do a lot of damage that hurts over time. But thats the ninja and rogue iconic ability actually. And yes, all other classes do crazy damage and stuff too, look at a level 20 shapeshifting druid and his companion, a ranger or fighter or inquisitor.