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Okay, so i was running a mod tonight with a huge creature in it, (3x3) and i had a player through a bomb at it that dealt splash damage, he had it attack the center of the creature and dealt splash damage to each square around that spot.
If a creature is large or huge, does he get hit by the splash damage of the same attack that is thrown/cast, or does he only take the damage from the initial attack?
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Only the initial attack.
That would be like a large creature taking damage four times from a fireball.
Only the initial attack.
That would be like a large creature taking damage four times from a fireball.
No, it's not. A Fireball is an AoE, not a splash weapon. Different rules. I hate it when people bring that up.
I had this same question the first time I ran an alchemist, and haven't played with my usual group in a while, so I can't tell you what we decided. It's not dealt with in the core rules to the best of my knowledge.
A splash weapon is a ranged weapon that breaks on impact, splashing or scattering its contents over its target and nearby creatures or objects. To attack with a splash weapon, make a ranged touch attack against the target. Thrown splash weapons require no weapon proficiency, so you don't take the –4 nonproficiency penalty. A hit deals direct hit damage to the target, and splash damage to all creatures within 5 feet of the target. Splash weapons cannot deal precision-based damage (such as the damage from the rogue's sneak attack class feature).
This is the rule. To the target and all creatures. A splash weapon is an AOE, hense splash.
Seriously, this is pretty simple.
A splash weapon is a ranged weapon that breaks on impact, splashing or scattering its contents over its target and nearby creatures or objects. To attack with a splash weapon, make a ranged touch attack against the target. Thrown splash weapons require no weapon proficiency, so you don't take the –4 nonproficiency penalty. A hit deals direct hit damage to the target, and splash damage to all creatures within 5 feet of the target. Splash weapons cannot deal precision-based damage (such as the damage from the rogue's sneak attack class feature).
This is the rule. To the target and all creatures. A splash weapon is an AOE, hense splash.
Seriously, this is pretty simple.
Yeah, except AoEs require reflex saves and a splash weapons require a ranged touch attack with no save. Totally the same.
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A splash weapon is a ranged weapon that breaks on impact, splashing or scattering its contents over its target and nearby creatures or objects. To attack with a splash weapon, make a ranged touch attack against the target. Thrown splash weapons require no weapon proficiency, so you don't take the –4 nonproficiency penalty. A hit deals direct hit damage to the target, and splash damage to all creatures within 5 feet of the target. Splash weapons cannot deal precision-based damage (such as the damage from the rogue's sneak attack class feature).
This is the rule. To the target and all creatures. A splash weapon is an AOE, hense splash.
Seriously, this is pretty simple.
Though if it is through onto a creature that takes up 9 squares, and the PC throwing it in the middle of the creature, then it wouldn't effect the other 8 squares that the creature is inhabiting, just other creatures in a 5ft foot radios around the creature, or just the creature.
Throw Splash Weapon
...To attack with a splash weapon, make a ranged touch attack against the target ... A hit deals direct hit damage to the target, and splash damage to all creatures within 5 feet of the target.
You can instead target a specific grid intersection. Treat this as a ranged attack against AC 5. However, if you target a grid intersection, creatures in all adjacent squares are dealt the splash damage, and the direct hit damage is not dealt to any creature. You can't target a grid intersection occupied by a creature, such as a Large or larger creature; in this case, you're aiming at the creature.
This is directly quoted, but I edited out parts and made things bold to make it a bit easier to see the important points.
Its important to note that it says that it deals damage to all creatures within 5 ft. or adjacent to the target. It doesn't deal damage to each square, so creatures that occupy multiple squares do not take damage multiple times.
So in this fashion, YES, it does function similar to area effects. It is different, however, like you said, and this is why swarms mention both by name when they are taking extra damage from them...
You also can't target an intersection inside of a creature's space (such as a huge or even large creature) in this case you target the creature. The advantage IS that the splash damage does hit more creatures, as it hits all creatures within 5 ft. of the creature (larger creature, more adjacent squares). This can be equally disadvantageous however, happy bombing!
It affects one target. It doesn't matter how large or how small the target is.
Does it make perfect sense, no, but to make the game work we have to rule in something.
The splash will extend outward from the target and i that hits other creatures, they take damage. The GM can determine if creatures directly in front can be in the splash zone (meaning it hit the outmost square and splashes an adjacent target.
Splash weapons receive no saving throw except if thrown by an alchemist. A reflex save then applies for half damage.
Splash weapons receive no saving throw except if thrown by an alchemist. A reflex save then applies for half damage.
but that's only bombs and only on splash damage.
. . . bombs cannot critically hit . . .
Yes they can.
This is one of those situations where bringing the tabletop/paper to three D actually helps. Think about looking at something about 15-20 feet tall, and 15 feet across. If you have a flask of acid, you're going to aim for the center of the creatre's mass you are currently seeing.
This would roughly be the stomach, or the chest. Thus, the "splash" would splash away from there.
This is opposed to trying to throw "at the tile it is standing on." This probably wouldn't seriously hurt the monster at all, and would probably only marginally scuff the tile.
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. . . bombs cannot critically hit . . .Yes they can.
On a direct hit, an alchemist’s bomb inflicts 1d6 points of fire damage + additional damage equal to the alchemist’s Intelligence modifier. The damage of an alchemist’s bomb increases by 1d6 points at every odd-numbered alchemist level (this bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit or by using feats such as Vital Strike). Splash damage from an alchemist bomb is always equal to the bomb’s minimum damage (so if the bomb would deal 2d6+4 points of fire damage on a direct hit, its splash damage would be 6 points of fire damage).
They can crit, but they don't do any additional damage.
Pathfinder is not D&D 3.0, so any rules from it about how flasks work isn't really relevant. It seems pretty cut and dry that bomb bonus damage does not multiply on a critical hit. You can lawyer whether crit damage is precision based damage or not, but ultimately the class description is what it is.
So it's not "lawyering," insofar as that is a pejorative term. Critical damage and precision damage are explicitly different things.
As for the bonus damage being "cut and dry" there is another thread discussing this right now, and as Ogre pointed out:
Actually, the bomb damage (1d6+INT) is doubled on a crit as far as I can tell. It's the bonus damage the alchemist gets at 3rd level and ever odd level after that that's not doubled.
So a crit with a bomb that does 5d6+INT does 6d6+INT*2.
So bombs do deal extra damage on a crit. The first d6 and the Int mod are doubled, it is only the bonus damage from subsequent alchemist levels which is not multiplied. Similarly, vital strike will increase the bomb's damage, but it is counted as having base weapon damage of d6, not however many d6s you have from alchemist levels. So a 5d6 bomb would deal 6d6+Int with vital strike and 7d6+2Int on a vital strike critical hit.
This is one of those situations where bringing the tabletop/paper to three D actually helps. Think about looking at something about 15-20 feet tall, and 15 feet across. If you have a flask of acid, you're going to aim for the center of the creatre's mass you are currently seeing.
This would roughly be the stomach, or the chest. Thus, the "splash" would splash away from there.
This is opposed to trying to throw "at the tile it is standing on." This probably wouldn't seriously hurt the monster at all, and would probably only marginally scuff the tile.
I was thinking about this before I ever got to that point in the thread. It's one of those things that isn't in the rules, and it's probably too "realistic" for most people's games to look at it the way I do... If you are throwing a splash weapon through the air with a more-or-less horizontal trajectory at a "huge" target, I would think that the splash would create a plane of squares that ran roughly perpendicular to the ground...
In any case, my ruling would depend on the splash weapon: liquids (alch. fire, acid, etc.) would compound damage their damage on the target; explosives would not. Makes no sense to me to extend the splash area just because the target is bigger.