I have a request from a player that wishes to play a mobile teleporting class that has some decent combat ability in the upcoming Jade Reagent module. He is converting to Pathinder from 4.0 D&D so I want to allow him to play something he will really enjoy. His inspiration is the 'Avenger' class from 4.0 and he is hoping to find something like that.
*Of note he has read the monk and while he likes some of the abilities it is not what he is looking for, which is unfortunate as this was my initial suggestion.*
Maneuverability and full bab while in no armor or light armor seems to be what he is after.
Any suggestions for builds or information on converting certain 4.0 class flavors to Pathfinder would be appreciated. All current standard Pathfinder content is allowed (core, apg, UM, beastairy 1, 2). No 3.5 resources.
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I have a request from a player that wishes to play a mobile teleporting class that has some decent combat ability in the upcoming Jade Reagent module. He is converting to Pathinder from 4.0 D&D so I want to allow him to play something he will really enjoy. His inspiration is the 'Avenger' class from 4.0 and he is hoping to find something like that.
*Of note he has read the monk and while he likes some of the abilities it is not what he is looking for, which is unfortunate as this was my initial suggestion.*
Maneuverability and full bab while in no armor or light armor seems to be what he is after.
Any suggestions for builds or information on converting certain 4.0 class flavors to Pathfinder would be appreciated. All current standard Pathfinder content is allowed (core, apg, UM, beastairy 1, 2). No 3.5 resources.
A barbarian possibly, but he would have way to teleport at all.He would be mobile with full BAB.
A ranger also tends to be lightly armored with a full BAB. If 3rd party PF compatible sources are allowed, Dreamscarred Press' Psionics Unleashed Soulknife, now with full BAB as opposed to 3.5's medium BAB, might be worth a gander.
That being said, the 4th Edition Avenger would more or less operate as striker-class, which includes Thieves and Monks (both of whom are medium BAB classes in PF) so if he'd reconsider on the BAB part, classes like the Magus and the Time Oracle (from UM)/Time Thief and Time Warden (from SGG, 3rd party PF) might be right up his alley; just wanted to throw that out there.
A ranger also tends to be lightly armored with a full BAB. If 3rd party PF compatible sources are allowed, Dreamscarred Press' Psionics Unleashed Soulknife, now with full BAB as opposed to 3.5's medium BAB, might be worth a gander.
That being said, the 4th Edition Avenger would more or less operate as striker-class, which includes Thieves and Monks (both of whom are medium BAB classes in PF) so if he'd reconsider on the BAB part, classes like the Magus and the Time Oracle (from UM)/Time Thief and Time Warden (from SGG, 3rd party PF) might be right up his alley; just wanted to throw that out there.
Did they rework the soulknife to give it teleporting options in the Unleashed book? I know there was a fairly mobile PrC in the SRD called the Elocator which would probably be right up the players ally so to speak. However not knowing anything about the 4E class, the player might be put off by the "wait" in levels to get into the good stuff. Unfortunately, if they are looking for early access to teleportation, there isn't much to choose from in PFRPG Core. If you are allowing 3.5 splat book spells/psionics, there were a handful more options available.
Core, the closest you will see is probably the psychic warrior/elocator build which you could get from srd, or reworked by Dreamscarred (who did very good work, get the book if you are remotely likely to use psionics).
Magus might be good, if you could contrive some good low level short range teleportation spells!
Convert the Swordsage from the Tomb of battle/book of Nine swords over, it has three short ranged teleports. Or, the Swift Blade found here .
edit: saw your no 3.5 allowed thing, shame. Um, try Ranger 6 / Horizon Walker 3 with Astral Plane Dominance, should be able to get 6 dimension doors a day no problem. Added bonus if you use the Guide from APG variant. I'd focus on archery, but 2 hand spring attack or vital strike would also work decently.
Unfortunately short range teleporting hasn't really made it into pathfnder yet in that kind of flavor.
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The Shadowdancer Prestige class is a good character choice. It goes off rogue or monk but with pathfinder it can be fighter or ranger too since skill points are not cut in half for non-class skills. It gives the player the ability of shadow jumps which are short range teleports. At 10th Lv they can shadow Jump 360ft per day.
Shadow Jump (Su)
At 4th level, a shadowdancer gains the ability to travel between shadows as if by means of a dimension door spell. The limitation is that the magical transport must begin and end in an area with at least some dim light. A shadowdancer can jump up to a total of 40 feet each day in this way; this may be a single jump of 40 feet or four jumps of 10 feet each. Every two levels higher than 4th, the distance a shadowdancer can jump each day doubles (80 feet at 6th, 160 feet at 8th, and 320 feet at 10th). This amount can be split among many jumps, but each one, no matter how small, counts as a 10-foot increment.
So a Fighter 5 can become a shadowdancer and he starts the class out with good BAB and a 3 point jump in stealth for now being trained. then he would get the ability to do short teleports.
The Time Theif, by super genius games might work.
I have a request from a player that wishes to play a mobile teleporting class that has some decent combat ability
I have an inquisitor with the travel domain. 8th level power: dimensional hop, 10 feet per level per day as a move action.
invisibility on the spill list to ad to the concept of being elusive
and with solo teamwork feats, he is an exellent flanker.
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One of the few things I found interesting in D&D 4 which isn't as well developed in other versions of the game is the idea of tactical combat placement. In 4.0 there are many effects which allow you to move around in combat without provoking attacks of opportunity, reposition allies and opponents, and take (or grant allies) immediate actions. Thus, a character can move an enemy 10' to the left... putting them into perfect position for the party's thief to backstab, or run into the middle of a group of enemies, and just as they've moved to surround him teleport out... leaving them bunched up for the Wizard's fireball spell. Get a couple people who are good at it on opposite sides and fights can start to resemble games of chess.
I suspect this is the kind of thing your player is looking for. The Monk's abundant step ability would cover alot of it, but they don't get that until 12th level. A Magus focused on movement spells (Dimension Door, Shadow Step, Force Punch, et cetera) could come close. A high Acrobatics skill (for moving without provoking AoO) could also help to simulate something like this. You listed Bestiary 1&2 as allowed; if that includes playing as 'monster' races then there are a few (e.g. Blink dog, Phase spider, Quickling) which could help provide the kind of mobility desired.
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Maneuverability and full bab while in no armor or light armor seems to be what he is after.
Full BAB is likely going to be an issue with any class which has access to teleport abilities, especially at low levels. The other issue you may hit is that a lot of 'combat teleport' style abilities work off Dimension Door, and that comes with the clause, '... After using this spell, you can't take any other actions until your next turn...' (Core book, page 269), which means it's not going to turn you into Nightcrawler (or his dad) from the movies... No other actions until your next turn also means no AoO, and not threatening means no flank, so anything built off of Dimension Door is better for quickly getting out of the way of the bad guys, rather than spanking them in melee.
That said, a full BAB / Wizard combo, moving to Eldritch Knight, may be an answer - taking the Teleportation focused school from the APG (page 147) for the Wizard levels. The Shift school power works off of Dimension Door, with all the associated limits, but it's the lowest-level teleportation available that I can think of.
I have a request from a player that wishes to play a mobile teleporting class that has some decent combat ability in the upcoming Jade Reagent module. He is converting to Pathinder from 4.0 D&D so I want to allow him to play something he will really enjoy. His inspiration is the 'Avenger' class from 4.0 and he is hoping to find something like that.
*Of note he has read the monk and while he likes some of the abilities it is not what he is looking for, which is unfortunate as this was my initial suggestion.*
Maneuverability and full bab while in no armor or light armor seems to be what he is after.
Any suggestions for builds or information on converting certain 4.0 class flavors to Pathfinder would be appreciated. All current standard Pathfinder content is allowed (core, apg, UM, beastairy 1, 2). No 3.5 resources.
You wont get teleportation and full BAB, sorry. gotta compromise somewhere.
However, there are a couple of cleric domains that give teleport ability. Travel and I believe there's another one in the APG.
Decent BAB, spells, full armored casting, plus teleport.
Ranger is also a full BAB that can have a highly maneuverable build, but teleport's an issue unless he has a magic item.
Magus might be good, if you could contrive some good low level short range teleportation spells!
This was a great suggestion, probably more than I could have known! After showing my player this class he found the 'Blackblade' archetype and I haven't stopped hearing about the character he is making since. :)
He is totally unfamiliar with how combat and spells work in Pathfinder so we will have to come up with a good list for his desire to teleport and be mobile, but I think he is going to enjoy this regardless of it's similarities or differences to the 'Avenger' in 4.0
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions, I think I have some ideas for some fun baddies that I might add to 'Jade Reagent' with these builds.
Did they rework the soulknife to give it teleporting options in the Unleashed book? I know there was a fairly mobile PrC in the SRD called the Elocator which would probably be right up the players ally so to speak. However not knowing anything about the 4E class, the player might be put off by the "wait" in levels to get into the good stuff. Unfortunately, if they are looking for early access to teleportation, there isn't much to choose from in PFRPG Core. If you are allowing 3.5 splat book spells/psionics, there were a handful more options available.
Core, the closest you will see is probably the psychic warrior/elocator build which you could get from srd, or reworked by Dreamscarred (who did very good work, get the book if you are remotely likely to use psionics).
The Dreamscarred Press' version of the PF Soulknife in Psionics Unleashed would still have to dip into a manifesting class/prestige class to gain "teleporting powers" (of course, they are in the midst of creating their psionic version of the APG...).
Teleportation spec'd wizard/fighter/eldritch knight.
Here's a homebrew class I made. Another suggestion would be to look at the Shadowcaster from Tome of Magic. There is a 3rd level mystery (spell) called flicker that lets you teleport 5 feet per 2 caster levels as an immediate action; if done in response to an attack, there is a 50% chance the attack is negated; the duration is 1 round per level. Maybe get a cloak or belt or boots of flicker? At 8th level, you could teleport 20 feet per round as an immediate actin for 8 rounds, twice a day.
Quickjack
BAB: +3/4
Good Saves: Reflex
Hit Dice: 1d8
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Knowledge (dungeoneering, geography, local, nature, planes), Linguistics, Perception, Profession, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Survival, Swim.
Skill Ranks Per Level: 6 + Int modifier.
Quickjacks are proficient in all Simple Weapons, handaxe, longbow, rapier, scimitar, shortbow, shortsword, and throwing axe. Quickjacks are proficient in light armor, but not shields.
1. Dimensional Pocket, Skirmish +1d6, Trapfinding, Warp Pool
2. Bonus Feat, Dimensional Hop
3. Evasion, Fast Movement
4. Skirmish +1d6/+1 AC
5. Blink
6. Bonus Feat, Fast Movement, Uncanny Dodge
7. Dimensional Haven, Skirmish +2d6/+1 AC
8. Dimension Door
9. Fast Movement, Improved Uncanny Dodge
10. Bonus Feat, Skirmish +2d6/+2 AC
11. Improved Blink
12. Fast Movement, Improved Evasion
13. Improved Dimensional Haven (sustaining health), Skirmish +3d6/+2 AC
14. Bonus Feat, Teleport
15. Anchor Resistance, Fast Movement
16. Skirmish +3d6/+3 AC
17. Greater Teleport
18. Bonus Feat, Fast Movement, Freedom of Movement
19. Greater Dimensional Haven (Astral Body), Skirmish +4d6/+3 AC
20. Gate
Dimensional Pocket (Su). As long as the Quickjack has at least 1 point in his Warp Pool, he can access an extradimensional storage space. This extradimensional space can hold upto 10 pounds worth of gear per class level. Removing or stowing an object from the Dimensional Pocket is a free action.
Skirmish (Ex). As the Scout ability. It improves at levels 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, and 19.
Trapfinding (Ex). As the Rogue ability.
Warp Pool (Su). A Quickjack as a number of points in his Warp Pool equal to 1/2 his class level + Charisma bonus (minimum 1). The Quickjack can spend a Warp Pool point as a free action to gain a +20 bonus to Acrobatic skill checks to Jump for 1 round, gain a +4 Dodge bonus to AC for 1 round, or to increase his speed by +10 feet per Warp point spent for 1 round.
Bonus Feat. At levels 2, 6, 10, 14, and 18, the Quickjack may select a bonus feat from the following list of bonus feats. He must meet all requirements for the selected feat.
Acrobatic, Agile Manuvers, Alertness, Athletic, Blindfight, Combat Expertise, Deadly Aim, Dodge, Double Slice, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Expeditious Dodge, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Critical, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Initiative, Improved Precise Shot, Improved Trip, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Lightning Stance, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Mobility, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Pinpoiny Accuracy, Quick Draw, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run, Spring Attack, Stealthy, Two Weapon Defense, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Whirlwind Attack, Wind Stance.
Dimensional Hop (Su). At 2nd level, by spending 1 point from his Warp Pool, the Quickjack can teleport up to 10 feet per point of his Charisma bonus (minimum 10 feet) as a swift action.
Evasion (Ex). At 3rd level, the Quickjack gains the rogue ability of the same name.
Fast Movement (Ex). At 3rd level, and every 3 levels beyond 3rd, the Quickjack's speed increases by 10 feet.
Blink (Su). At 5th level, the Quickjack gains the benefits of the Blink Spell as a swift action for 1 number of rounds equal to his Charisma bonus (minimum 1) by spending 1 point from his Warp Pool.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex). At 6th level, the Quickjack gains the rogue ability of the same name.
Dimensional Haven (Su). At 7th level, by spending 1 point from his Warp Pool as a standard action, the Quickjack can benefit from a Rope Trick effect (without the need to use a rope) with a caster level equal to the Quickjack's class level. At 13th level, the Quickjack gains the benefits of the Improved Dimensional Haven. All within the effects of the Dimensional Haven benefit from the effects of a Ring of Sustenance and heal a number of hit points equal to their hit dice each hour. At 19th level, the Quickjack can remain safe within his Dimensional Haven and use Astral Projection.
Dimension Door (Su). At 8th level, by spending 1 Warp Point as a swift action, the Quickjack can use a Dimension Door effect with a caster level equal to his class level.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex). At 9th level, the Quickjack gains the benefits of the rogue's Improved Uncanny Dodge ability of the same name.
Improved Blink (Su). At 11th level, the Quickjack can benefit from the Improved Blink spell for a number of rounds equal to his Charisma bonus (minimum 1 round) by spending 1 Warp Point as a swift action.
Improved Evasion (Ex). At 12th level, the Quickjack gains the rogue ability of the same name.
Teleport (Su). At 14th level, the Quickjack can use Teleport with a caster level equal to his class level as a swift action by spending 1 Warp Point.
Anchor Resistance (Ex). At 15th level, the Quickjack gains Spell Resistance 15 + his class level against effects that would suppress his ability to teleport or use dimensional or astral travel.
Greater Teleport (Su). At 17th level, the Quickjack can use Greater Teleport as a swift action by spending 2 points from his Warp Pool.
Freedom of Movement (Ex). At 18th level, the Quickjack is protected with a constant Freedom of Movement effect.
Gate (Su). At 20th level, as a full round action, the Quickjack can spend 3 points from his Warp Pool and use a Gate effect.
theres a spell you could allow him to get out of Rite Publishing's 101 2nd level spells.
its called dimension hop, and does exactly what dimension door does, except is close range and you can move after casting it.
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However, there are a couple of cleric domains that give teleport ability. Travel and I believe there's another one in the APG.
Decent BAB, spells, full armored casting, plus teleport.
The Deception subdomain gets a shift ability at 1st level, but it's a reaction, not an action. I really like it, though. When someone attacks you in melee and misses, you can, as an immediate action, teleport up to 10', as long as you remain within the attacker's reach.
I had great fun playing an Inquisitor with the travel domain.
Not quite full BAB, but you can specialize them for melee and really pump out some damage. The travel domain teleport is really flexible, too, and you get other mobility-based benefits from it.
With the DM's permission, this could work nicely:
1. Play a ranger;
2. Ask to trade your pet or companion bond for access to the Travel domain (there's precedent for that, since Druids can swap a pet for a domain).
With the DM's permission, this could work nicely:
1. Play a ranger;
2. Ask to trade your pet or companion bond for access to the Travel domain (there's precedent for that, since Druids can swap a pet for a domain).
So far in our mini game he seems to be doing fairly well with his magus, had a few save issues versus some baddies, but were getting him back on track. He had expressed an interest in playing 2handed dwarf ranger with the dorn derger, as he saw another player use it at the end of our last game.
The travel domain fix would be perfect for him. I'd suggest he take trapper ranger instead of spells as well. This would make for a very interesting mobile (because of domain abilities not 10ft' increase on dwarf) ranger with some fun tricks.
With the DM's permission, this could work nicely:
1. Play a ranger;
2. Ask to trade your pet or companion bond for access to the Travel domain (there's precedent for that, since Druids can swap a pet for a domain).So far in our mini game he seems to be doing fairly well with his magus, had a few save issues versus some baddies, but were getting him back on track. He had expressed an interest in playing 2handed dwarf ranger with the dorn derger, as he saw another player use it at the end of our last game.
The travel domain fix would be perfect for him. I'd suggest he take trapper ranger instead of spells as well. This would make for a very interesting mobile (because of domain abilities not 10ft' increase on dwarf) ranger with some fun tricks.
The ranger's -3 CL would hurt this ability quite a bit.
Didn't there used to be githyanki dimension dooring warriors? Maybe adjust it to be a fighter archetype? Replacing either weapon training, armor training, or bravery for some teleporty goodness? Maybe call it the Silver Sword Marauder? Must take Weapon Training I in heavy blades?
There is also a 6-level Forgotten Realms PrC that is good for teleporting warrior archetype. Teffelan Flame Lord or something weird like that.
Maybe you should shift focus to what kinds of magic items let you teleport. Add boots of teleportation for 3/day teleporty goodness. Cloak of Etherealness for walk-through walls 10 min/day. And err... Amulet of the planes i guess. But what you realy want is a custom item to let you dimension door or the like.
Oh, and take a look at the deception subdomains 1st level power.
Deception subdomain
That on an inqisitor would be a decent go at fighting + teleporting, at level 1 no less.
And apparently, the Synthethist archtype for the Summoner allows for personal teleporting (dimesnion doors) at level 6; can't think of any PF equivalent of teleporting back with an enemy in tow that some 4th edition Avengers could do though.
I know you said you arent interested in 3.5 stuff, but if your player is using the magus and wants a teleporter, I strongly recommend taking a look at some of the lower level sorc/wizard conjuration spells in the 3.5 spell compendium. Greater slide, dimension hope, benign and baleful transposition are very much the alley of the kind of character you were describing at the start of this thread. Have a look and see about adding them to the magus' spell list.
Speaking of 3.5 stuff, 6th level warlocks could teleport 40 feet at will....and left an image behind at their source. Warlocks can be made into decent tanks. And Quicken Spell-like ability lets you flee the scene swiftly 3 times a day!
ASTRAL MARAUDER Fighter Archetype
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Fly (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge geography (Int), Knowledge planes (Int), Profession (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str).
Skill Ranks per Level: 2 + Intelligence modifier
Astral Shifting (Sp): At 3rd level, the Astral Marauder can teleport once per round as a move action. The Astral Marauder is limited to teleporting 10 feet per level each day, and must teleport in 5 foot increments.
This ability replaces the standard fighter’s Armor Training 1 class feature.
Swift Astral Shifting (Sp): At 7th level, the Astral Marauder can teleport once per round as a swift action. The Astral Marauder is limited to teleporting 20 feet per level each day, and must teleport in 5 foot increments.
This ability replaces the standard fighter’s Armor Training 2 class feature.
Sudden Astral Shifting (Sp): At 11th level, the Astral Marauder can teleport once per round as an immediate action; if this is done in reaction to an attack, there is a 50% chance the attack does not affect the Astral Marauder. The Astral Marauder is limited to teleporting 30 feet per level each day, and must teleport in 5 foot increments.
This ability replaces the standard fighter’s Armor Training 3 class feature.
Astral Spring Attack (Sp): At 15th level, the Astral Marauder can teleport twice per round, once as a swift or immediate action, and once as a move action. This allows the Astral Marauder to teleport, take a standard action (such as an attack), then teleport again in the same round. The Astral Marauder is limited to teleporting 40 feet per level each day, and must teleport in 5 foot increments.
This ability replaces the standard fighter’s Armor Training 4 class feature.
Astral Shifting Mastery (Sp): At 19th level, the Astral Marauder can teleport at will as a free action. If the Astral Marauder takes the full attack action, he can teleport between each attack as a free action. The Astral Marauder is limited to teleporting 50 feet per level each day, and must teleport in 5 foot increments.
This ability replaces the standard fighter’s Armor Mastery class feature.
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Well if you want to save the effort of making up new spells. Have him use his arcane pool points to use the travel powers from the 3.5 Jaunter class.
Jaunter
The Jaunter is a PRC from Expedition to the Demonweb Pits... it has some very nice Transport Abilities, and the important thing is...they are Dexterity Based. the Jaunter Prc gives the Following Spell-like Abilities:
Its a 4 level prc
Benign Transposition
Baleful Transposition
Dimension Door
Teleport
Freedom of Movement
PlaneShift
Each Ability uses Travel power uses... total uses/day = Class lvl + Dex mod
Also they gains +10' to land speed.
Substitute arcana pool points for the classes Dex + level uses and make the access to the powers level dependent as compared to the spells he casts and BAMF! you home.