At 14th level, we can just... I dunno. What -can- we do????Have you given the caster and weapon the ability to flank (for +2) yet? =)
I think I made that a special magus arcana the sword dancer can take if he likes. Do you think that should be an automatic ability at 14th level? Seems pretty good, especially since it would be "free."
Here's the text of the magus arcana, btw, in case you missed it:
Attack From All Sides (Ex): When using dance of swords, the sword dancer's target counts as being flanked by the sword dancer and any ally of the sword dancer's who attacks it in melee until the start of the sword dancer's next turn. The sword dancer must be at least 9th level before selecting this arcana.
Come to think of it... wording should probably be clarified...
Attack From All Sides (Ex): When using dance of swords, the sword dancer receives a flanking bonus to hit against the target of his dance of swords. He need not actually be flanking with any allies to receive this bonus. The sword dancer does not receive this bonus against creatures with uncanny dodge or similar abilities. The sword dancer must be at least 9th level before selecting this arcana.
Blue text is tentative; as I rethink the ability it seems a bit strong. What do you guys think: should this be automatic, or an optional magus arcana? Should the blue bit be included, or excluded?
EDIT: 5th page GET
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I think I made that a special magus arcana the sword dancer can take if he likes. Do you think that should be an automatic ability at 14th level? Seems pretty good, especially since it would be "free."
It should be better than pretty good at 14th, no? =)
You could also make it an arcana, with a subsequent arcana allowing it to make an attack of opportunity every round. Just brainstorming.
I've always felt that flanking with a spiritual weapon or dancing weapon should provide the +2 bonus.
But the sword dancer doesn't have dancing weapons, he dances -with- his weapon.
P.S. Elghinn, how is the Lord of Constructs working out?
Slow. I have lots to ponder and work out first be fore i can post anything.
Whooooa just noticed something, why did you take heavy armor away from the knight errant?? That's a pretty big nerf/feat tax.
EDIT: ok I'm just going to belligerently ignore that nerf. :P
Here're the current versions of the knight errant and arcane fist, as of our last collaboration on them, with a few wording tweaks on my part to clarify some things.
Arcane Fist
Knight Errant
....
Sword Dancer
EDIT 2: ignore what I said about using weapon training prog (1,5,9,13,17) for bladethirst. It doesn't solve the problem! Hahahaha. I'd say keep it at 1/5/10/15/20 because that's the arcane pool enhancement progression. At 14th level, we can just... I dunno. What -can- we do????
1) The knight errant was always light and medium armor from the beginning, as far as I remember. If you think heay should be added, that's fine.
2) Your Arcane Fist has 2 mistakes? You forgot to add the +2 reflex adjustment into the advancement table. Also, I thought we had the unarmed strike damage 1 dmg die less than what it is for a full monk, thus 1d4 at 1st...to 2d8 at 20th?
3) I think we could simply make that arcana a full ability for the sword dancer. Maybe a name more in line with the rest of the abilities?
1. Ok, I never noted it in my knight errant and I assumed that meant cavalier defaults. I think he should get full armor.
2A. My advancement chart can't do your non-standard save progressions quite yet (it's generated by a script, which I have not yet tweaked to include random +2s).
2B. I think he should get full unarmed strike damage, so I assumed we'd agree to disagree on that one. My 'final' version has full unarmed strike damage, whatever you do in your PDF can have full-1. Seems fine to me, no?
3. Okay -- level 14 default ability, minus the blue text, call it 'Dance in Circles' ? :P
Revised Sword Dancer
...we need a write up her...
Primary Class: Magus.
Secondary Class: Bard.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Saves: +2 Reflex.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: Sword dancers may select three bard skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal maguc class skills. The sword dancer gains a number of ranks at each level of the multiclass archetype equal to 4 + Int.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A sword dancer is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light armor, but not with shields. He can cast arcane spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a sword dance wearing medium armor, heavy armor, or a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component.
Spellcasting: A sword dancer casts arcane spells drawn from the magus spell list presented in Chapter 1 of Ultimate Magic, in addition to a small number of bard spells listed below. He can cast these spells spontaneously and can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. Every sword dancer spell has a verbal and somatic component in addition to its normal component, unless the sword dancer has selected the Silent Spell or Still Spell feats. To learn or cast a spell, a sword dancer must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a sword dancer’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the sword dancer’s Charisma modifier. Like other spellcasters, a sword dancer can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day, and may not exceed his daily spell allotment or his spells known as presented in this entry In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score.
As stated above, the sword dancer adds the following bard spells to his magus spell list:
0–Level Bard Spells: ghost sound, lullaby
1st–Level Bard Spells: chord of shards**, dancing lantern*, solid note*, ventriloquism.
2nd–Level Bard Spells: allegro**, distracting cacophony**, distressing tone**, ghostbane dirge*, heroism, silence.
3rd–Level Bard Spells: arcane concordance*, haunting choir**, purging finale*, reviving finale*.
4th–Level Bard Spells: dance of a hundred cuts*, discordant blast*, heroic finale*, shout, sonic thrust**, virtuoso performance**.
5th–Level Bard Spells: frozen note*, shadowbard**, song of discord.
6th–Level Bard Spells: dance of a thousand cuts**, deadly finale*, greater shout.
*Advanced Player’s Guide
**Ultimate Magic
Dance of Swords (Su): At 1st level, a sword dancer learns to integrate his attacks with a magical dance that accelerates his strokes and confounds his foes. To do this, the sword dancer must wield a one-handed weapon in his primary hand, have his off-hand free, and be able to take a 5-foot step. As a full-round action, the sword dancer can make a full attack against the same opponent, and gains one extra attack per round with that weapon at his highest attack bonus with a –2 penalty, as described in the two-weapon fighting entry of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook. The sword dancer is considered to have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat and a light weapon in his off-hand for the purpose of determining his extra attacks and penalties for two-weapon fighting, despite using only a single one-handed weapon. All attacks must be made against the same opponent when using dance of swords or any subsequent two-weapon fighting ability.
Prior to each attack, the sword dancer must take a 5-foot step, as a free action. He must move from one adjacent square to another adjacent square, as long as each square is adjacent to his opponent. Doing so does not provoke any attacks of opportunity from his opponent. The sword dancer cannot enter or reenter any adjacent square he has already occupied during his turn. He may make fewer attacks that his maximum number of attacks, but once he stops moving his turn ends. If the only square into which the sword dancer can move to continue his routine is occupied by an ally, he instead moves 10 feet, moving through his ally's square. This ability functions only while the sword dancer is not deafened or affected by a silence spell or similar magic. This ability replaces spell combat.
Bardic Performance: This is exactly like the bard ability of the same name, though the sword dancer has access to a limited but varied selection of performances that he may select at the appropriate levels. He uses his sword dancer level as his bard level for determining the effects of his bardic performances. This ability replaces arcane pool.
Bladethirst (Su): At 1st level, a sword dancer may use performance to grant one weapon, one natural weapon, one end of a double weapon, or 50 items of ammunition of the same type within 30 feet a +1 enhancement bonus. This enhancement bonus increases to +2 at 4th level and by +1 for every five levels after to a maximum of +5 at 19th level). These bonuses stack with existing bonuses and may be used to increase the item’s enhancement bonus up to +5 or to add any of the following weapon properties: dancing, flaming, flaming burst, frost, icy burst, keen, mighty cleaving, shock, shocking burst, speed, or wounding. If the weapon is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before adding special abilities. These bonuses and properties are decided when the performance is made and cannot be changed until the next time the sword dance uses this ability. These bonuses do not function if the weapon is wielded by anyone other than the sword dancer. A sword dancer can only enhance one weapon in this way at one time. If he uses this ability again, the first use immediately ends. This ability also replaces arcane pool.
At 3rd level, a sword dancer may select one of the following bardic performances in place of a magus arcana: distraction, fascinate, or inspiring blow*. (*Advanced Player’s Guide bard archetype)
At 6th level, a sword dancer may select one of the following bardic performances in place of a magus arcana: inspire competence, inspire courage, satire*, or wordstrike**. (*Advanced Player’s Guide or **Ultimate Magic bard archetype)
At 12th level, a sword dancer may select one of the following bardic performances in place of a magus arcana: dirge of doom, dramatic subtext*, inspire greatness, or suggestion, (*Advanced Player’s Guide bard archetype)
At 18th level, a sword dancer may select one of the following bardic performances in place of a magus arcana: dance of the dead**, frightening tune, or inspire heroics. (**Ultimate Magic bard archetype)
Blade Performance (Ex): At 2nd level, whenever the sword dancer performs his dance of swords (or any subsequent dance of swords ability), he may use any bardic performance that requires 1 standard action or less to initiate, as a free action. Doing so expends one extra round of his daily bardic performance. This ability replaces spellstrike.
Whirring Dance (Ex): At 4th level, the sword dancer gains partial concealment against the target of his dance of swords until the beginning of his next turn. This ability replaces spell recall.
Bonus Feats: At 5th level, a sword dancer may learn any bardic masterpiece listed in Ultimate Magic that he meets the prerequisites for in place of a bonus feat, and additional masterpieces in place of subsequent bonus feats.
Ritual Dance (Su): At 7th level, a sword dancer gains the ritual dance ability in place of knowledge pool. This ability functions like the magus' knowledge pool ability, but with the following changes. Whenever the sword dancer regains his daily allotment of spells, he may engage in a 30-minute ritualistic performance by expending 4 rounds of his daily bardic performance. At the end of the ritual, the sword dancer selects one spell from his spell list that and adds it to his list of spells known. This spell remains in his list of known spells until the next time he regains his spells for the day, at which time it is wiped from his memory. The sword dancer may perform this ritualistic dance a number of times per day equal to his Charisma modifier, and must select a different spell each time it is performed. This ability replaces knowledge pool.
Shield of Blades (Ex): At 7th level, whenever the sword dancer uses dance of swords, he gains a shield bonus to his AC equal to the number of attacks he made during his turn, but only against attacks made by his opponent. This bonus remains until the beginning of the sword dancer’s next turn. This ability replaces medium armor.
Improved Dance of Swords (Su): At 8th level, the sword dancer is considered to have the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat and a light weapon in his off-hand for the purpose of determining his extra attacks and penalties for two-weapon fighting, despite using only a single one-handed weapon. This ability otherwise functions as dance of swords. This ability replaces improved spell combat.
Improved Whirring Dance (Su): At 11th level, the sword dancer gains total concealment against the target of his dance of swords until the beginning of his next turn. This ability replaces improved spell recall.
Fortress of Blades (Ex): At 13th level, the sword dancer’s shield bonus to AC granted by his shield of blades is applied to all attacks. This ability replaces heavy armor.
Dance in Circles (Ex): At 14th level, when using dance of swords, the sword dancer receives a flanking bonus to hit against the target of his dance of swords. He need not actually be flanking with any allies to receive this bonus. The sword dancer does not receive this bonus against creatures with uncanny dodge or similar abilities. The sword dancer must be at least 9th level before selecting this arcana.
Greater Dance of Swords (Su): At 15th level, the sword dancer is considered to have the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat and a light weapon in his off-hand for the purpose of determining his extra attacks and penalties for two-weapon fighting, despite using only a single one-handed weapon. This ability otherwise functions as dance of swords. This ability replaces improved spell combat.
Intense Blade Performance (Ex): At 19th level, whenever the sword dancer performs his dance of swords (or any subsequent dance of swords ability), he may use two bardic performances that require 1 standard action or less to initiate, as free actions. Doing so expends one extra round of his daily bardic performance, but includes both performances. The sword dancer must end one of his two performances when his dance of swords ceases. This ability replaces greater spell access.
Perfect Dancer (Ex): At 20th level, the sword dancer takes no penalties for two-weapon fighting when using dance of swords. This ability otherwise functions as dance of swords. This ability replaces true magus.
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These remind me of a Dragon article from way back at the beginning of the 3E era that had some cool multi-class combos. I forget what issue that was in.You may be referring to Dragon #289, which featured:
The Martial Artist (Fighter/Monk)
The Monastic Defender (Monk/Sohei)
The Spirit Warrior (Fighter/Shaman)
I think it went back further than that. The one i like was the Dwarven Slayer which was a fighter/rogue build. My first 3E character was a skinny dwarven tunnel rat built on that idea. I just started with rogue first so I wouldn't get screwed on the skill points. I'll have to look that article up.
The article from #289 came out when Oriental Adventures was published, iirc.
SM
For those interested, here is my basic guidelines for making the archetypes. I will include this and a more comprehensive point system with ability break-downs in a pdf. i will announce when I've posted that.
ELGHINN LIGHTBRINGER’S MULTICLASS ARCHETYPE BUILDER GUIDELINES
Base Ability Exchange
Creating a multiclass archetype in not an exact science, but I have endeavored to make as close to one as I can. That said, it also take a certain artistic ability and flourish to make it all work. Thus, I present the general guidelines I’ve used to create my archetypes, in hopes that others may take up the proverbial sword and create their own unique and exciting multiclass archetypes.
Caveats
*Any ability of similar level or effect may be exchanged (), as can any ability within each subgroup (1/day challenge for a 1/day smite evil, a +1d6 channel energy for a +1d6 sneak attack, etc.)
**Any secondary class ability should be gained by the primary class at the same level, or up to 3-4 levels higher, depending upon flavor and archetype build.
alchemy ability
bardic performance ability
rage ability
trapfinding ability
arcane pool
ki pool
1 “exploit” (evasion, uncanny dodge, etc.)
1 bonus feat
1 discovery
1 domain power
1 domain spell
1 hex
1 mystery power
1 mystery spell
1 order ability
1 rage power
1 revelation
1 rogue talent
1 sorcerer bloodline power
1 sorcerer bloodline spell
1 wizard school power
1 wizard school spell
any one class ability of equal level
1 increment of armor training
1 increment of favored enemy
1 increment of favored terrain
1 increment of weapon training
1/– DR
1/day challenge
1/day judgment
1/day smite evil
1/day wild shape
+1d6 bomb
+1d6 channel energy
+1d6 lay on hands
+1d6 lay on hands (heal or damage)
+1d6 sneak attack
+1 AC bonus
+2 banner
+2 bravery
+2 oracle curse
+2 trap sense
divine bond
eidolon
familiar
hunter’s bond
mount
nature bond
I'm a bit puzzled by some of your rewording, Elghinn... why does dance of swords require a one-handed weapon, and why are the penalties as if he had a light weapon in his offhand? The way I see the ability...
1. you can use a single one-handed weapon for both your 'mainhand' and 'offhand' strikes, taking penalties as though your offhand were a one-handed weapon, OR
2. you can use a single light weapon for both your 'mainhand' and 'offhand' strikes, using the reduced penalties for having a light weapon in your offhand.
Also, bringing '5-foot steps' into the equation is just a big rules headache. 5-foot steps by definition are a special action (the only one of their kind) with wonky rules as to when you can use them, and they don't provoke attacks of opportunity. I think it's a much safer bet to specify that the sword dancer makes free movement as a part of the dance of swords ability, with the note that it doesn't provoke AoO from the target of the dance but it does from any other threatening enemies. In short, I'm sorry but I don't think your description is an improvement... in fact I think it's less clear, both from language and rules standpoints.
You also have some other things... like you changed my "unless the sword dancer uses the Silent Spell or Still Spell feats" to "unless the sword dancer has selected the Silent Spell or Still Spell feats" which makes it sound like if he has the feats, his spells don't have those components. I dunno. I appreciate that you made a note about him needing a certain Cha score to learn or cast a spell (I'd overlooked that). But yeah for the most part this may be a downgrade.
Sorry if I'm coming across as rude...
I'll post in the morning with what I hope will be the best possible synthesis of our versions.
I'm a bit puzzled by some of your rewording, Elghinn... why does dance of swords require a one-handed weapon, and why are the penalties as if he had a light weapon in his offhand? The way I see the ability...
1. you can use a single one-handed weapon for both your 'mainhand' and 'offhand' strikes, taking penalties as though your offhand were a one-handed weapon, OR
2. you can use a single light weapon for both your 'mainhand' and 'offhand' strikes, using the reduced penalties for having a light weapon in your offhand.Also, bringing '5-foot steps' into the equation is just a big rules headache. 5-foot steps by definition are a special action (the only one of their kind) with wonky rules as to when you can use them, and they don't provoke attacks of opportunity. I think it's a much safer bet to specify that the sword dancer makes free movement as a part of the dance of swords ability, with the note that it doesn't provoke AoO from the target of the dance but it does from any other threatening enemies. In short, I'm sorry but I don't think your description is an improvement... in fact I think it's less clear, both from language and rules standpoints.
You also have some other things... like you changed my "unless the sword dancer uses the Silent Spell or Still Spell feats" to "unless the sword dancer has selected the Silent Spell or Still Spell feats" which makes it sound like if he has the feats, his spells don't have those components. I dunno. I appreciate that you made a note about him needing a certain Cha score to learn or cast a spell (I'd overlooked that). But yeah for the most part this may be a downgrade.
Sorry if I'm coming across as rude...
I'll post in the morning with what I hope will be the best possible synthesis of our versions.
1) I think I either miss read or missunderstood what was happening in that ability then. I had thought it was saying the SD faught with just one one-handed weapon in one hand, as if she were fighting with two, and thus gained the benefits of the two-weapon fighting style. SO, what you are saying is they are allowed to do the "Drizz't" style fighting, using any one-handed weapon as if it were a light one? That makes more sense to me now...my bad.
As for the rest, fix it and post it. If I've got something wrong, and it's not worded they way it should be, I'm big enough to admit it when I screw up. Working on these different archetypes all at once has my head spinning at times. No rudeness preceived, Flak, just somone wanting get things right. Onward and upward...
I'm not saying they should be able to use a one-handed weapon as if it were a light one. THat's what YOUR text for the ability says. Hahaha, I'll post something up soon hopefully it'll be clearer. :)
+1 :D
Alrighty. Spent a long time on it so it should be pretty clear at this point. I think I cleared up spellcasting, fixed some grammar in the bonus skills & ranks section, did a major reworking of dance of swords, and some other stuff. I changed ritual dance to be pricier but performable at any point in the day (basically, another performance). And I think improved & greater dance of swords are way clearer, as well as blade performance and its improved version. Also reworded bardic performance, and changed bladethirst back to 1/5/10/15/20 because, as I said, that's arcane pool's progression. The sword dancer's getting a new (and free) ability at 14th level, so no need to 'fill' that level with a progression. Let me know if anything's unclear, or if you disagree with any of the wording. I'm also adding a description. Hope this works out.
====
Somewhere between the musical talent of the bard and the magus's dedication to the arcane lie the talents of the sword dancer. He is a warrior, as skilled in combat as his cousins. And while he is a spellcaster who primarily casts the magus's combat-focused spells, he weaves song and dance into his every action. He can learn performance-themed spells not normally available to a magus, and instead of blending combat with wizardry, he gains the ability to dance through the fray, attacking with musical precision.
Advancement Chart
1. Bardic performance, bladethirst +1, cantrips, dance of swords
2. Blade performance
3. Magus arcana or performance
4. Whirring dance
5. Bladethirst +2, bonus feat or masterpiece
6. Magus arcana or performance
7. Ritual dance, shield of blades
8. Improved dance of swords
9. Magus arcana or performance
10. Bladethirst +3, fighter training
11. Bonus feat or masterpiece, improved whirring dance
12. Magus arcana or performance
13. Fortress of blades
14. Dance in circles
15. Bladethirst +4, greater dance of swords, magus arcana or performance
16. Counterstrike
17. Bonus feat or masterpiece
18. Magus arcana or performance
19. Intense blade performance
20. Bladethirst +5, perfect dancer
Primary Class: Magus.
Secondary Class: Bard.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Saves: +2 Reflex.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: A sword dancer selects three bard skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal magus class skills. The sword dancer gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A sword dancer is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light armor, but not with shields. He can cast arcane spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a sword dance wearing medium armor, heavy armor, or a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component.
Spellcasting: A sword dancer casts arcane spells drawn from the magus spell list presented in Chapter 1 of Ultimate Magic, in addition to a number of bard spells listed below. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, a sword dancer must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The DC for a saving throw against a sword dancer's spell is 10 + the spell level + the sword dancer's Charisma bonus.
Like other spellcasters, a sword dancer can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is the same as the magus's. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score. A sword dancer's selection of spells is extremely limited. He gains spells known as a bard of his level.
Every sword dancer spell has both verbal and somatic components in addition to their normal components, unless the sword dancer is using the Silent Spell or Still Spell feats.
The sword dancer adds the following bard spells to his spell list at the indicated levels:
0–ghost sound, lullaby.
1st–chord of shards**, dancing lantern*, solid note*, ventriloquism.
2nd–allegro**, distracting cacophony**, distressing tone**, ghostbane dirge*, heroism, silence.
3rd–arcane concordance*, haunting choir**, purging finale*, reviving finale*.
4th–dance of a hundred cuts*, discordant blast*, heroic finale*, shout, sonic thrust**, virtuoso performance**.
5th–frozen note*, shadowbard**, song of discord.
6th–dance of a thousand cuts**, deadly finale*, greater shout.
*Advanced Player’s Guide
**Ultimate Magic
Dance of Swords (Su): At 1st level, a sword dancer learns to integrate his attacks with a magical dance that accelerates his strokes and confounds his foes. To do this, the sword dancer must have one hand free and be able to dance and hear. He cannot use this ability when wielding two weapons, a double weapon, or a shield, nor when paralyzed or otherwise unable to move, nor when deafened or silenced or otherwise unable to hear himself. As a full-round action, the sword dancer designates one enemy to whom he is adjacent as the target of his dance. He then makes a number of attacks against that enemy as though he were making a full attack with two-weapons, using his singular weapon for both his 'mainhand' and 'offhand' attacks. His penalty to attacks is calculated as though he had the Two-Weapon Fighting feat and were wielding a weapon of his weapon's type in both his mainhand and off-hand. He adds his full Strength bonus to damage with all attacks when using this ability.
Before each attack, the sword dancer must move 5 feet. This movement is free, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity from the target of his dance, though it provokes attacks of opportunity as normal from any other threats. This movement must always be made into a square adjacent to the sword dancer's target. The sword dancer cannot reenter any square he has already occupied during his turn. If the only square into which the sword dancer can move to continue his routine is occupied by an ally, he gains an extra 5 feet of movement (passing through his ally) and continues his dance. The sword dancer can choose to make fewer than his maximum number of attacks, but his turn ends when he stops attacking. This ability replaces spell combat.
Bardic Performance: At 1st level, a knight errant gains this ability, which functions as the bard class feature of the same name, except that the sword dancer has access to a more limited selection of performances. He begins knowing bladethirst. At 3rd level, and every three levels thereafter, he may choose to learn another bardic performance in place of a magus arcana. All performances use the sword dancer's level as his effective bard level. This ability replaces arcane pool.
Bladethirst (Su): At 1st level, a sword dancer may use performance to grant one weapon, one natural weapon, one end of a double weapon, or 50 items of ammunition of the same type within 30 feet a +1 enhancement bonus. This enhancement bonus increases to +2 at 5th level and by +1 for every five levels after to a maximum of +5 at 20th level). These bonuses stack with existing bonuses and may be used to increase the item’s enhancement bonus up to +5 or to add any of the following weapon properties: dancing, flaming, flaming burst, frost, icy burst, keen, mighty cleaving, shock, shocking burst, speed, or wounding. If the weapon is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before adding special abilities. These bonuses and properties are decided when the performance is made and cannot be changed until the next time the sword dance uses this ability. These bonuses do not function if the weapon is wielded by anyone other than the sword dancer. A sword dancer can only enhance one weapon in this way at one time. If he uses this ability again, the first use immediately ends.
Starting at 3rd level, a sword dancer may select one of the following bardic performances in place of a magus arcana: distraction, fascinate, or inspiring blow*. (*Advanced Player’s Guide bard archetype)
At 6th level, a sword dancer adds the following to the list of performances he may select in place of a magus arcana: inspire competence, inspire courage, satire*, or wordstrike**. (*Advanced Player’s Guide or **Ultimate Magic bard archetype)
At 12th level, a sword dancer adds the following to the list of performances he may select in place of a magus arcana: dirge of doom, dramatic subtext*, inspire greatness, or suggestion. (*Advanced Player’s Guide bard archetype)
At 18th level, a sword dancer adds the following to the list of performances he may select in place of a magus arcana: dance of the dead**, frightening tune, or inspire heroics. (**Ultimate Magic bard archetype)
Blade Performance (Ex): At 2nd level, whenever the sword dancer uses dance of swords, he may, as a free action, start any bardic performance that requires 1 standard action or less to initiate. Doing so expends one extra round of his daily bardic performance. This ability replaces spellstrike.
Whirring Dance (Ex): At 4th level, the sword dancer gains partial concealment against the target of his dance of swords until the beginning of his next turn. This ability replaces spell recall.
Bonus Feats: A sword dancer may learn any bardic masterpiece listed in Ultimate Magic for which he meets the prerequisites in place of a bonus feat.
Ritual Dance (Su): At 7th level, as a special use of bardic performance, a sword dancer can spend 10 minutes and expend 6 rounds of bardic performance in order to expand his spell knowledge. Upon completing the ritual dance, the sword dancer selects one spell from his spell list that he does not know and adds it to his list of spells known. The chosen spells remain on his list of known spells until the next time he regains his spells for the day, at which time it is wiped from his memory. A sword dancer may perform this ritual a number of times per day equal to his Charisma bonus, as long as he has bardic performance rounds to spend, each time selecting another spell. This ability replaces knowledge pool.
Shield of Blades (Ex): At 7th level, whenever the sword dancer uses dance of swords, he gains a shield bonus to his AC equal to the number of attacks he made during his turn, but only against attacks made by the target of his dance. This bonus remains until the beginning of the sword dancer’s next turn. This ability replaces medium armor.
Improved Dance of Swords (Su): At 8th level, the sword dancer is considered to have the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat when using his dance of swords, gaining a second 'offhand' attack with his single weapon. This attack otherwise follows all the rules for improved two-weapon fighting, receiving a -5 penalty to hit in addition to the normal two-weapon fighting penalties. This ability replaces improved spell combat.
Improved Whirring Dance (Su): At 11th level, the sword dancer gains total concealment against the target of his dance of swords until the beginning of his next turn. This ability replaces improved spell recall.
Fortress of Blades (Ex): At 13th level, the sword dancer’s shield bonus to AC granted by his shield of blades ability is applied against attacks from all enemies. This ability replaces heavy armor.
Dance in Circles (Ex): At 14th level, when using dance of swords, the sword dancer receives a flanking bonus to hit against the target of his dance of swords. He need not actually be flanking with any allies to receive this bonus. The sword dancer does not receive this bonus against creatures with uncanny dodge or similar abilities.
Greater Dance of Swords (Su): At 15th level, the sword dancer is considered to have the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat when using his dance of swords, gaining a third 'offhand' attack with his single weapon. This attack otherwise follows all the rules for greater two-weapon fighting, receiving a -10 penalty to hit in addition to the normal two-weapon fighting penalties. This ability replaces greater spell combat.
Intense Blade Performance (Ex): At 19th level, whenever the sword dancer performs his dance of swords, and benefits from his blade performance ability, he may start two performances as a free action instead of one. Both performances must require 1 standard action or less to initiate. He expends no rounds of bardic performance in order to start the second performance, but he must end it when his dance of swords ceases. This ability replaces greater spell access.
Perfect Dancer (Ex): At 20th level, the sword dancer takes no penalties for two-weapon fighting when using dance of swords. This ability replaces true magus.
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Finally -- question about those save bonuses. I incorporated them into my advancement chart script ( Arcane Fist | Knight Errant ), could you check to see if the progression is correct? I'm a bit shaky on the who&why of the bonuses. Because we're trading all other abilities with an eye for balance, the save bonuses seem just 'good'—an archetype with them is strictly better than an archetype (or single-classed character) without them. Also on that note, many of your advancement charts in the APG multiclass archetypes sample PDF you seeded a while ago are missing the +2 save bonuses. Also in the latest version of your core PDF... for example the Divine Blade. Just thought I'd point that out :)
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Edit: and the sword dancer is on my site now. I removed the APG/UM notes on my site since I'll just use links to d20pfsrd or something. But they're still in the copy I posted here.
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I had some ideas for the temple assassin last night, will work on that next.
Finally -- question about those save bonuses. I incorporated them into my advancement chart script ( Arcane Fist | Knight Errant ), could you check to see if the progression is correct? I'm a bit shaky on the who&why of the bonuses. Because we're trading all other abilities with an eye for balance, the save bonuses seem just 'good'—an archetype with them is strictly better than an archetype (or single-classed character) without them. Also on that note, many of your advancement charts in the APG multiclass archetypes sample PDF you seeded a while ago are missing the +2 save bonuses. Also in the latest version of your core PDF... for example the Divine Blade. Just thought I'd point that out :)
Good catch. Obviously I missed that with all the reworking on the advancement tables.
When you multiclass you usually get a combo of saves from one class and another. For example, a Ftr10 (+7/+3/+3) + Wiz10 (+3/+3/+7) = +10/+6/+10. With the archetypes, a 20th level Ftr(P)/Wiz(S) archetype = base Ftr saves +12/+6/+6 plus +2 Will (Wiz) = +12/+6/+8.
Essentially, you take your base primary class saves, then looking at your secondary class, you see which saves are different, and those saves gain a +2 overall bonus. So if you were to do a Paladin(P)/Cleric(S), no change to saves.
If you do a Rogue(P)/Cleric(S), rogues have good saves in Ref only as primary class, Clr has good saves in Fort & Will, so you would add a +2 to Fort and Will for the secondary cleric class(at 20th = +8/+12/+8). If the Cleric was the primary, you'd add a +2 Ref from the secondary rogue (at 20th level = +12/+8/+12)
A normal Rog12/Clr5 multiclass would be +4/+8/+4 plus +4/+1/+4 = +8/+9/+8. A 17th level Rog(P)/Clr(S) archetype would have a +5/+10/+5 base +2 to Fort & Will from the Cleric = +7/+10/+7/ Very similar in numbers. Fort & Will are lower by 1 in the archetype, but Ref is higher by 1 in the archetype. If you look at totals, the Rog12/Clr5 true multiclass has a total of 25 bonuses (+8 +9 +8 = +25), and the 17th level arcehtype has only 24 bonuses (+7 +10 +7 = +24).
A Clr12/Rog5 multiclass would have +8/+4/+8 plus +1/+4/+1 = +9/+8/+9. The Clr(P)/Rog(S) archetype of 17th level would have a total +10/+5/+10 clric base, then +2 to Ref for the Rogue secondary class = +10/+7/+10.
I simply found it easier to use the primary class base saves, then add an overall +2 bonus for any save that the secondary class had that was better than the primary class. As shown above.
Ah, right... I guess I'm just too used to using fractional bonuses (so, for example, a rogue 1/cleric 1 would have a bab of 1.5 or +1 instead of +0) and only giving the +2 to saves at 1st level. :P
Also, how's the dancer looking?
Alrighty. Spent a long time on it so it should be pretty clear at this point. I think I cleared up spellcasting, fixed some grammar in the bonus skills & ranks section, did a major reworking of dance of swords, and some other stuff. I changed ritual dance to be pricier but performable at any point in the day (basically, another performance). And I think improved & greater dance of swords are way clearer, as well as blade performance and its improved version. Also reworded bardic performance, and changed bladethirst back to 1/5/10/15/20 because, as I said, that's arcane pool's progression. The sword dancer's getting a new (and free) ability at 14th level, so no need to 'fill' that level with a progression. Let me know if anything's unclear, or if you disagree with any of the wording. I'm also adding a description. Hope this works out.
Looks great. Yeah, when I was looking at the two-weapon fighting penalties I muat have gotten all confused and wrote my last version as such.
1) So, just to clarify, dance of swords = Two-Weapon Fighting penalties according to the single weapon he's wielding, as if it he were wielding that weapon in both hands. Thus, if he uses a longsword, he receives the Two-Weapon Fighting feat penalty for primary and off-hands (-4 and -4). If he wields a light weapon, the penealties would be -2 and -2.
Then you add the -5 for the second off-hand attack, and -10 for the third off-hand attack.
Essentially, he's treats his single weapon "dance of swords" fighting style as two-weapon fighting, but with only one weapon.
2) Perfect Dancer (Ex): At 20th level, the sword dancer takes no penalties for two-weapon fighting when using dance of swords. This ability replaces true magus.
So, does that mean, no penalties at all, even his extra off-hand attacks, or no penalties to his base attacks with dance of swords, essentially losing the -4/-4 or -2/-2 penalties depending on the type of weapon he uses?
Looks great otherwise.
1. correcto
2. the latter was my intention =)
EDIT: so really we could just rephrase it 'his penalties are reduced by 2' since that's more in line with true magus. If he's wielding a long sword or a trident he'll still take -2 on attacks. i'm ok with that.
1. correcto
2. the latter was my intention =)
EDIT: so really we could just rephrase it 'his penalties are reduced by 2' since that's more in line with true magus. If he's wielding a long sword or a trident he'll still take -2 on attacks. i'm ok with that.
So This?
Perfect Dancer (Ex): At 20th level, the sword dancer's penalties for two-weapon fighting are further reduced by 2 when using dance of swords. This ability replaces true magus.
Or this?
Perfect Dancer (Ex): At 20th level, whenever the sword dancer uses dance of swords, his penalties for two-weapon fighting are further reduced by 2. This ability replaces true magus.
Perfect!
Perfect!
How about adding these too.
Magus Arcana: The following magus arcana complement the sword dancer archetype: close range, critical strike, maneuver mastery, quickened magic, silent magic, and still magic.
Special: The sword dancer qualifies for the Expanded Arcana, Extra Arcana, and Extra Performance feats.
Close range is useless because the sword dancer gives up spellstrike. The others are fine, though.
And saying that the sword dancer qualifies for those feats is, I think, pointless. He already meets the prereqs by having magus arcana, spontaneous casting, and performance class features...
... I incorporated them into my advancement chart script ( Arcane Fist | Knight Errant ), could you check to see if the progression is correct? ...
Yes, they are correct.
Wheee. I'm working on the temple assassin, but while I think what I have is a good blend of inquisitor and rogue it doesn't really feel like a 'temple assassin.' Will rework.
Alright, once again, someone (Flak) has caught a bunch of errors in my original archetypes final pdf. So, I have AGAIN posted the updated updated updated version, which also includes the new Living Refrain Sorcerer(Maestro bloodline)/Bard archetype proposed to me by Demon9ne, with whom I worked with to develop the final version of.
I have also renamed it to go along with the upcoming series of archetype pdfs. I will will also cease access to any previous versions of the original archetype, so that only the newest one is available.
I realize a lot of people will hate me now, but that's the price of progress.
If you're going to force a mystery or bloodline, I would force only one. Like, "He must select either the Bones mystery or the Undead bloodline." Make the language pretty so he can choose both, but forcing both would be kinda lame in my opinion.Um, actually I could give a limited choice in both. Like:
Mysteries: Ancestors, Bones or Dark Tapestry.
Bloodlines: Aberrant, Abyssal, Accursed, Infernal
Hey Bardess, just checking in to see when you're going to post your archetype write up. Waiting to see it. I have to say it's nice to not be doing it all anymore. It takes a LOT of work. Alright, we shall patiently await your unveiling!! :D
I had more luck with this link.
The other one didn't work? Arggh! Alright, thanx Demon9ne.
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If you're going to force a mystery or bloodline, I would force only one. Like, "He must select either the Bones mystery or the Undead bloodline." Make the language pretty so he can choose both, but forcing both would be kinda lame in my opinion.Um, actually I could give a limited choice in both. Like:
Mysteries: Ancestors, Bones or Dark Tapestry.
Bloodlines: Aberrant, Abyssal, Accursed, InfernalHey Bardess, just checking in to see when you're going to post your archetype write up. Waiting to see it. I have to say it's nice to not be doing it all anymore. It takes a LOT of work. Alright, we shall patiently await your unveiling!! :D
I'd be glad to work on another one for you, Elghinn. Is anyone currently working on the Magus(P)/Oracle(S) that was named the "Arcane Vessel"?
I'd be glad to work on another one for you, Elghinn. Is anyone currently working on the Magus(P)/Oracle(S) that was named the "Arcane Vessel"?
Please do! I don't think anyone else is doing that one. Anybody? As it sits, you, Flak, and Demon9ne are taking this challenge on in stride. I'm more than happy to share the load and the cudos at the end. And bardess if he lets us know what's happeneing.
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I'm probably going to take on the Munitions Expert next. Flak, according to his post above, seems to be looking into the Temple Assassin.
Elghinn - I'd also be happy to look at the finished version of the Sword Dancer, to look for typos, grammar wonkiness, balance concerns, etc. when you have it finished. (Take your time, of course.)
@Demon9ne the 'final' version of the sword dancer is in my latest post on the topic, I think, with the one change since then being to rework Perfect Dancer to reduce penalties by -2 instead of eliminating them.
Also, if temple assassin was your suggestion (I don't remember, sorry) and you have some ideas, feel free to work on it (obviously).
I'm here! Sorry for disappearing, I couldn't connect these last days.
So I was thinking to the Dead Shaman...
Mysteries: Ancestors, Bones, Dark Tapestry.
Bloodlines: Aberrant, Abyssal, Accursed, Infernal, Undead
He swaps his first bloodline power with the 1st level revelation, then the second for the 7th level revelation, and then at 11th and 19th level.
He can swap some or all the mistery spells with bloodline spells.
I'm uncertain with what to do with the 20th level power/final revelation...
At 3th level, he could have a special revelation similar to Wisdom of the Ancestors, to contact the spirits of his bloodline (aliens, devils, vampires etc.)
At 15th level, he could swap the revelation with the power of calling an army of defunct warriors of his bloodline (similar to Storm of Souls).
This is what I thought for now... but it seems too simple. Oracle and Sorcerer are very similar, after all... Also, this would mean replacing ALL the mistery revelations, and I don't know if it's good. Anyone?
These ideas really look fantastic. I'm not sure when I'd be able to test them at this point in time, but I will.
Personally I'm pretty bad at the mechanics part of this sort of thing so I'd rather leave that to the ones that can. As such I'll just spout some ideas. Use them or not use them as you see fit.
Bone Knight: Divine
Basically the same as your Bone Knight, only using the Oracle instead of a Sorcerer. It would, of course, be tied to the Bones mystery. In addition he would be tied to the Wasting Oracle's Curse, though I'd also add Handle Animal with regards to his own mount to the exceptions on the skill check penalty.
Agathion Heritor
The name's a bit shaky. The basic idea would be to mix a Sorcerer with the Celestial(Empyreal) Bloodline with a Druid, showing the deeper connection to the Sorcerer's Agathion ancestor and allowing for the use of a single stat for spellcasting. My idea would be to limit it to Neutral Good alignment and mainly use the Druid's Wildshape to add features. The Wild Shape would turn you into some sort of hybrid form like an Agathion and the animal selection would as such be limited. though I would advocate the addition of an Ursine form in addition to those present in Bestiary 2. Perhaps it could eventually also gain a Silvanshee as an animal companion/familiar, with an obvious penalty to effective druid/wizard level.
Baba Yaga Initiate
Another shaky name. The idea would be a Witch with Summoner or the other way around. The witch's familiar would go but the eidolon would function as a familiar in regards to learning spells and the flavor of the eidolon would be that it is a gift from the patron, which is Baba Yaga. As such patron choice would be limited to Deception, Portents, Winter and Wisdom, and perhaps Insanity, Occult, Plague and Vengeance.
Similarly Eidolon shapes would be limited to biped and quadruped and the idea would be that it slowly evolves into something frosty. In addition you would be locked into some Hexes or get a smaller selection. The only Hex I see as an absolute must is Witch's Hut from Ultimate Magic.
That's my ideas so far, rest is too vague to post at the moment, so I will post them once I get a better idea.
Dead Shaman
Bloodline Curse (Ex): The curse afflicting the shaman is in his bloodline itself (this is a pretty cool idea I just had, I'll need some help with details however).
Undead: Must eat human(oid) meat or drink human(oid) blood every day or suffer penalties, this meal/drink however makes him regain power uses
Aberrant: Has a deformed arm or leg, walks slowly or can't wield weapons/shields easily but masters some special combat maneuvers
Accursed: Ugly, causes fear/repulsion in opponents
Abyssal: His great strenght breaks object held, attack or damage bonus
Infernal: Fearsome visage, bonus on Intimidate and fear spells
Revelations/Bloodline Powers: Rather than swap fixed bloodline powers and revelations, simply add the powers to the mistery revelation list (the level at which a bloodline power would be gained is the minimum level needed to choose it as a revelation). I'll give instead some fixed revelations unique of the archetype, like "Wild Dance" (to call the spirits) or something.
Bloodline/Mistery Spells: At even levels, the shaman must choose one or the other of the two spells.
Spells: The shaman casts spells from both lists, using the oracle table for number of spells a day, number of spells known etc.
Bloodline feats: I'll give one or two feats from the bloodline list as bonus feats, maybe at 9th and 18th level?
Final Revelation/20th level Bloodline Power: Now this is the real challenge. I'm wondering if I should create a Final Bloodline Revelation for every combination (LONG!) or an all-catch one good for everyone, such Great Monster Armada (summon a swarm of spectral monsters of his bloodline to fight for him), or Final Blood Gift (transform in a monster of his type at will). What do you think?
Bardess-- re: final revelation/bloodline power -- why not just give them ancestral final revelation? Fits beautifully flavorwise, and oracle archetypes can do that (grant specific revelations from specific mysteries regardless of character's mystery).
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Dead Shaman
** spoiler omitted **
The Arcane Vessel is tasked with using the divine gifts granted to her from birth along with martial prowess to strike deadly, magic-infused blows against her enemies. She is infused with raw arcane energy and must expel it into her enemies often, or risk losing her mind to the insane visions caused by her innate power.
Primary Class: Magus
Secondary Class: Oracle
Hit Dice: d8
Bonus Skills and Ranks: Arcane Vessels may select three skills from either the Oracle class skills or those listed under the description of her Mystery and add them to her class skills, in addition to the normal rogue class skills. The Arcane Vessel gains a number or ranks at each level equal to 2 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Arcane Vessels are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and light armor. She can cast her spells while wearing light armor with no penalty, but incurs the standard arcane failure chance penalties for casting in medium or heavy armor or if wielding a shield..
Mystery: At 1st level, an Arcane Vessel chooses one Oracle Mystery. Once made, this choice cannot be changed. Beginning at 2nd level, she adds a Mystery Spell to her spell list. At 4th level and every four levels after, she adds another Mystery Spell to her spell list, up to and including her 6th-level mystery spell at level 20, and she gains a bonus spell slot for each of these spells, which can only be used for a Mystery spell (although she may sacrifice a higher level bonus spell slot to cast a lower-level Mystery spell). These spells are cast spontaneously (they need not be prepared each day) but otherwise act as Magus spells of the same level. In addition, the mystic knave does not add all of her chosen mystery skills to her class skill list, as described above. This ability replaces Spell Recall, Improved Spell Recall.
Spellcasting: An Arcane Vessel casts prepared spells drawn from the Magus spell list, and in addition can cast any of her Mystery spells spontaneously as a Magus spell of the same level (see description in the Mystery ability above). Other than the bonus spell slots granted by her Mystery spells, she follows the spellcasting progression shown in the Magus class table. She incurs arcane spell failure when wearing medium or heavy armor, or when wielding any type of shield.
Oracle's Curse (Ex): An Arcane Vessel is constantly afflicted with strange visions caused by the pure arcane energy that fills her, and these cause her to act strangely during and outside of battle. At 1st level, she must choose the Insane Visions Oracle's curse. This works exactly like the Oracle ability of the same name, but her effective oracle level is equal to her Arcane Vessel level for determining any level-dependent effects.
New Oracle’s Curse: Insane Visions – The Oracle’s mind is cluttered by visions that distract her and inhibit her interactions with others, but these visions give her some defense against others trying to attack her mind. The oracle can never take a 10 or 20 on a skill check. The oracle also suffers a -4 penalty on all Concentration checks and a -2 penalty on Diplomacy checks due to her lack of attention during conversations. At 5th level, as the Oracle begins to learn to relegate her attention better, the penalty to Concentration checks becomes -2, and she gains a +2 bonus to saving throws against mind-affecting effects. At level 10, her bonus to saving throws against mind-affecting effects increases to +4. At level 15, that bonus increases to +6. At level 20, she is immune to mind-affecting effects.
Revelations: Beginning at 1st level, an Arcane Vessel may select one revelation associated with her chosen Mystery. Unless otherwise noted, the DC to save against a given revelation is 10 + 1/2 the Arcane Vessel level + the Arcane Vessel's Charisma modifier. Levels in the Oracle class stack with this ability when determining the required level for a revelation and any save DCs associated with it. The Arcane Vessel may choose an additional revelation in place of a Magus Arcana at any level when she could normally choose an Arcana.
Arcane Visions (Su): At 4th level, the Arcane Vessel begins to tolerate, and even comprehend the insane visions that raw magic constantly assails her with, and can begin to turn them on other magic users. When an Arcane Vessel is targeted with a spell or spell-like ability by an opponent (even as part of an area effect), part of the spell's magic is rebounded onto the caster. The caster must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 Arcane Vessel Level + Cha modifier) or be stricken with the Arcane Vessel's insane visions and dazed for 1 round as they try to sort out the confusing images assailing their mind. This ability can be used a number of times per day equal to 3 + the Arcane Vessel’s Charisma modifier. This ability replaces the bonus feat at level 5.
Improved Arcane Visions (Su): At 11th level, if an opponent fails to save against the effect of the Arcane Vessel’s Arcane Visions ability, the opponent is instead confused for 1d4 rounds. This ability replaces the bonus feat at level 11.
Greater Arcane Visions (Su): At 17th level, the Arcane Vessel can choose to target up to her Charisma modifier creatures within a 30-foot radius of the caster of the spell which targeted her, as well as the caster of the spell. Each of these creatures must make a Will save (DC 10 + ½ Arcane Vessel Level + Cha modifier) or be afflicted with Arcane Visions. This ability replaces the bonus feat at level 17.
Divine Spell Access (Su): At 19th level, the Arcane Vessel is so in tune with the arcane forces that empower her that deities of magic begin to take notice and grant her small boons. She learns and places 12 spells from the Cleric spell list into his Magus spellbook, two from each spell level (level 0 to level 5). These spells are cast as Magus spells and can be cast using either Magus spell slots or the Arcane Vessel’s bonus slots from her Mystery spells. The Arcane Vessel may not learn or cast any spells which are opposed to her alignment (for example, a Neutral Good Arcane Vessel may cast spells from the Cleric spell list with either the Chaotic or Lawful descriptor, but not the Evil descriptor). If her alignment changes, she loses access to those spells that are opposed to her new alignment. This ability replaces Greater Spell Access.
Magus Arcana: The following Arcana complement the Arcane Vessel archetype: Concentrate, Dispelling Strike, Empowered Magic, Maximized Magic, Quickened Magic, Reflection, Silent Magic, Still Magic.
Mysteries: The following Mysteries complement the Arcane Vessel archetype: Battle, Lore, Wind, Metal
Revelations: The Arcane Vessel adds the following revelations to those available based on her Mystery:
Dance of the Blades (Ex): Your base speed increases by 10 feet. At 7th level, you gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls with a metal weapon in any round in which you move at least 10 feet. This bonus ncreases by +1 at 11th level, and every four levels thereafter. At 11th level, as a move action, you can maneuver your weapon to create a shield of whirling steel around yourself until the start of your next turn; non-incorporeal melee and ranged attacks against you have a 20% miss chance while the shield is active. You must be wielding a metal weapon to use this ability.
[Any new revelations that make sense for this archetype??]
Special: An Arcane Vessel qualifies for the Extra Revelation feat.
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Class Abilities
1 0 2 0 2 Arcane Pool, Cantrips, Spell Combat, Mystery, Oracle’s Curse (Insane Visions), Revelation
2 1 3 0 3 Spellstrike, Mystery Spell
3 2 3 1 3 Magus Arcana
4 3 4 1 4 Mystery Spell
5 3 4 1 4 Arcane Visions
6 4 5 2 5 Magus Arcana
7 5 5 2 5 Knowledge Pool, Medium Armor
8 6 6 2 6 Mystery Spell, Improved Spell Combat
9 6 6 3 6 Magus Arcana
10 7 7 3 7 Fighter Training
11 8 7 3 7 Improved Arcane Visions
12 9 8 4 8 Mystery Spell, Magus Arcana
13 9 8 4 8 Heavy Armor
14 10 9 4 9 Greater Spell Combat
15 11 9 5 9 Magus Arcana
16 12 10 5 10 Mystery Spell, Counterstrike
17 12 10 5 10
18 13 11 6 11 Magus Arcana
19 14 11 6 11 Divine Spell Access
20 15 12 6 12 Mystery Spell, True Magus
What do you guys think? Anything OP or nerfed?
Cool. Originally I was like "wut, curse for free?" but then the special curse you wrote is actually really harsh, so eh.
Greater arcane visions seems a -lot- better than a feat. Also, you should note that the action for using arcane visions is immediate, yeah?
You've got some he/she mix-up in there, you're missing greater arcane visions from your advancement chart @ L17, and you capitalize a bunch of things that shouldn't be capitalized (class & ability names), but that aside it looks pretty good =)
Bardess-- re: final revelation/bloodline power -- why not just give them ancestral final revelation? Fits beautifully flavorwise, and oracle archetypes can do that (grant specific revelations from specific mysteries regardless of character's mystery).
Do you mean the final revelation from the Ancestors mistery? This could do, but I might want to personalize it a bit. As you may remember, I would adapt some other Ancestors revelations for this archetype (I did it previously for a traditional oracle archetype of my own).
What do you think of the Bloodline Curse? My idea is to give the Bloodline Arcana as a benefit at 1st level, and then enhance the bonus at higher levels as for regular APG curses.|
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Cool. Originally I was like "wut, curse for free?" but then the special curse you wrote is actually really harsh, so eh.
Greater arcane visions seems a -lot- better than a feat. Also, you should note that the action for using arcane visions is immediate, yeah?
You've got some he/she mix-up in there, you're missing greater arcane visions from your advancement chart @ L17, and you capitalize a bunch of things that shouldn't be capitalized (class & ability names), but that aside it looks pretty good =)
1. Yeah I was trying for a tough curse (especially since the Magus needs Concentrations checks a lot) because some of the abilities are a little better than most.
2. I agree that Greater visions is a lot better than a feat, maybe I'll nerf it just a little. Maybe the DC to affect each person other than the caster is lowered by the number of people you're trying to affect? (Then, for example, at level 18 the caster of the spell would have to pass, say, a DC 23, but the three other people you target would only have to pass a DC 20). The two previous ones are on par with Revelations, though, so I figure they're pretty fair. Does this make Greater Visions a little more reasonable?
3. I always try to stick with "She" for these descriptions, but yeah sometimes I slip into the "he". I generally like the look of capitalizing all the abilities, but that's just aesthetics.
Agathion Heritor
The name's a bit shaky. The basic idea would be to mix a Sorcerer with the Celestial(Empyreal) Bloodline with a Druid, showing the deeper connection to the Sorcerer's Agathion ancestor and allowing for the use of a single stat for spellcasting. My idea would be to limit it to Neutral Good alignment and mainly use the Druid's Wildshape to add features. The Wild Shape would turn you into some sort of hybrid form like an Agathion and the animal selection would as such be limited. though I would advocate the addition of an Ursine form in addition to those present in Bestiary 2. Perhaps it could eventually also gain a Silvanshee as an animal companion/familiar, with an obvious penalty to effective druid/wizard level.
This intrigues me. You could "convert" some bloodline powers in sort of a "druidic domain": some druidic domains give a familiar too, so you could give the silvanshee to your character without level penalties. Of course, just at 7th level and beyond, since it's an enhanced familiar.
Some extra revelations for the Dead Shaman I was thinking of:
Spirit Advisor = an enhanced familiar (outsider) to sit on the shaman shoulder and give counsel for better or worse - 7th level
Ancestral Shape = take the shape of a monster of his type and level, a bit like wild shape - 15th level
2. I agree that Greater visions is a lot better than a feat, maybe I'll nerf it just a little. Maybe the DC to affect each person other than the caster is lowered by the number of people you're trying to affect? (Then, for example, at level 18 the caster of the spell would have to pass, say, a DC 23, but the three other people you target would only have to pass a DC 20). The two previous ones are on par with Revelations, though, so I figure they're pretty fair. Does this make Greater Visions a little more reasonable?
So this?
Greater Arcane Visions (Su): At 17th level, the arcane vessel can choose to target a number of creatures up to her Charisma modifier within a 30-foot radius, and centered on the caster of the spell which targeted her. Each creature within the 30-foot radius, including the caster upon whom it is centered, must make a Will save or be afflicted with arcane visions. The DC for one creature is equal to 10 + 1/2 arcane vessel’s level + the arcane vessel’s Charisma modifier, and is lowered by 1 for each additional creature targeted up to the arcane vessel’s Charisma modifier. This ability replaces bonus feat of 17th level.
That should be balanced. Maybe even allowing 2 creatures affected as normally, then lowering the DC by 1 for each additional creature?
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2. I agree that Greater visions is a lot better than a feat, maybe I'll nerf it just a little. Maybe the DC to affect each person other than the caster is lowered by the number of people you're trying to affect? (Then, for example, at level 18 the caster of the spell would have to pass, say, a DC 23, but the three other people you target would only have to pass a DC 20). The two previous ones are on par with Revelations, though, so I figure they're pretty fair. Does this make Greater Visions a little more reasonable?So this?
Greater Arcane Visions (Su): At 17th level, the arcane vessel can choose to target a number of creatures up to her Charisma modifier within a 30-foot radius, and centered on the caster of the spell which targeted her. Each creature within the 30-foot radius, including the caster upon whom it is centered, must make a Will save or be afflicted with arcane visions. The DC for one creature is equal to 10 + 1/2 arcane vessel’s level + the arcane vessel’s Charisma modifier, and is lowered by 1 for each additional creature targeted up to the arcane vessel’s Charisma modifier. This ability replaces bonus feat of 17th level.
That should be balanced. Maybe even allowing 2 creatures affected as normally, then lowering the DC by 1 for each additional creature?
Yeah I think that works, although I meant to have the original caster of the spell still have the full DC, but it's probably too complex that way. How you have it written flows better.
Yeah I think that works, although I meant to have the original caster of the spell still have the full DC, but it's probably too complex that way. How you have it written flows better.
Do want this?
Greater Arcane Visions (Su): ... The save DC for one creature is equal to 10 + 1/2 arcane vessel’s level + the arcane vessel’s Charisma modifier, and is lowered by 1 for each additional creature targeted up to the arcane vessel’s Charisma modifier...
Or this?
...The save DC is equal to 10 + 1/2 arcane vessel’s level + the arcane vessel’s Charisma modifier for up to two creatures. For each additional creature targeted, this DC is lowered by 1 up to the the maximum number of creatures this ability can affect....
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Yeah I think that works, although I meant to have the original caster of the spell still have the full DC, but it's probably too complex that way. How you have it written flows better.
Do want this?
Greater Arcane Visions (Su): ... The save DC for one creature is equal to 10 + 1/2 arcane vessel’s level + the arcane vessel’s Charisma modifier, and is lowered by 1 for each additional creature targeted up to the arcane vessel’s Charisma modifier...
Or this?
...The save DC is equal to 10 + 1/2 arcane vessel’s level + the arcane vessel’s Charisma modifier for up to two creatures. For each additional creature targeted, this DC is lowered by 1 up to the the maximum number of creatures this ability can affect....
I think the first one is more reasonable, the DC is the same for all of the creatures targeted, but for every more than one targeted creature the DC goes down by 1.
I think the first one is more reasonable, the DC is the same for all of the creatures targeted, but for every more than one targeted creature the DC goes down by 1.
+1
Alright, I'm working on the "Lord of Constructs" thing. I need some help with the name, I'm not liking Lord of constructs. Here's what I have:
Construct Master
Golemcrafter
Golemsmith
Animator
Constructor
Constuctist
Engineer
Automotonist
Assembler
Which one's the best? Other suggestions?
Constructor, it's the most general
I like Golemsmith.