So I'm going to build a Magus for a Roman-themed game. I have an idea for his backstory, but I'd like input for a build.
So my stats are: 9, 14, 15, 13, 14, 12 in no particular order.
I'm thinking just straight Magus, but I might do a Staff Magus. Bladebound and the other one kinda don't really appeal to me, and hexcrafter i just say meh.
It's 5th level, and I'm going strength build. Any suggestions on feats? Traits? Anything?
Obviously I'm going Scimitar, and I don't want to go dervish dance.
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First step, let me discourage a strength build, you won't benefit nearly as much as you think from it as you've been classically trained to think. Easily 80% of your damage will be coming from spells, and magical effects generated by your weapon striking the opponent (think flaming,spell storing quality, magical enhancement to damage, bane, critical hit bonuses etc) and the +1-2 extra damage from your strength quickly gets eaten. Sure you don't want a LOW strength score simply for carrying capacity but more than 14 is a waste IMO. Weapon finesse offers a simple way out at level 1, and lets you focus your better stats where you want them.
I'd do the following with your stats.
STR-12
DEX-14(+2 from racial) >16<
CON-14
INT-15(+1 from 4th level) >16<
WIS-13
CHA-9
Obviously depending on your race this is subject to change but it leaves you with a physically competent (175 heavy load, +1 to strength checks) character with good reflexes, good accuracy (+3 to hit, AC, Ref saves, multiple skills), a nice healthy character (Average 38 HP, +2 fort saves) who is more than competent with his spellcasting. The WIS or CHA can be switched depending on how you want to run the character as well.
As far as feats and traits go I'm going to point you towards Arcane Strike again, now that it stacks with the magus class abilities again. What's better than a swift action to add +1 enchantment to your weapon for free? Not much, you can pick that up right off the bat.
Thrown weapons make excellent weapons in the hand of the Magus as well, so do try to keep a few throwing daggers or some other non magical ranged weapon on hand just for backup, just be careful tracking your arcane pool.
If you are going to try out Staff Magus, best of luck with you, as that not in every game is it as easy to craft or get you hands on certain items you might rely on as other, so be wary.
At fifth level with those stats I would suggest the following for a STR build.
STR 15
DEX 14 (or 13)
CON 13 (or 14)
INT 14
WIS 12
CHA 9
I would take Extra Arcane Pool, Combat Casting, Focused Mind (Trait), Reactionary (trait). I would go with Human. The extra feats could be power attack, dodge, toughness, improved initiative, etc if you like those things. Make sure you take Acid Splash and Close Arcana to allow unlimited extra attacks the two class features that allow spellcasting with a free extra attack.
Half orc and the tusked feature could be fun too for an extra bite attack.
Mostly just have fun with it.
If you go DEX then an elf is the way to go. Pick Rapier and Weapon Finesse.
Well, ok. You guys convinced me on a finesse build.
If I do an elf I'm thinking the following for stats:
STR: 12
DEX: 14 >> +2 >> 16
CON: 15 >> -2 >> +1 (4th level) 14
INT: 14 >> +2 >> 16
WIS: 13
CHA: 9
9, 14, 15, 13, 14, 12
feats:
1 Weapon finesse
3 Dervish dance
5 Combat Casting
7 Arcane Strike
9 ?
Focused Mind (Trait +2 on concentration checks
Reactionary (Trait) +2 on Initiative checks
This gives me
HP: 38 (avg)
AC: 17 with chain shirt
+7 to hit, +8 with Arcane Strike, then modified by arcane pool
+14 to concentration checks, which means I fail a second level spell on a 5 or less, 1st level on a 3 or less
+5 to Initiative checks,
good saves, good skills.
What do you guys suggest for magic items? I'm guessing he's giving us wbl to buy stuff
Without knowing the world and just going by a raw power build... I would say the below is a good bet.
WBL at level five is 10,500 and the below list is 10,565
+1 Scimitar
+1 Chain Shirt
+1 Cloak of Resistance
+1 Amulet of Natural Armor
+1 Ring of Protection
Handy Haversack
You can drop any one or two things for potions, wands, and other fun stuff if you want.
This also leaves nothing for ranged attacks so you may want to change out the ring and the cloak for a Mighty (+1 STR) Comp Long Bow +1 if do not want to use ranged spells... but a Magus is not that great of a ranged character so just throwing out an Acid Splash when you have to is not too bad in a pinch. (You really need to be in close combat with a Magus.)
Without knowing the world and just going by a raw power build... I would say the below is a good bet.
WBL at level five is 10,500 and the below list is 10,565
+1 Scimitar
+1 Chain Shirt
+1 Cloak of Resistance
+1 Amulet of Natural Armor
+1 Ring of Protection
Handy HaversackYou can drop any one or two things for potions, wands, and other fun stuff if you want.
This also leaves nothing for ranged attacks so you may want to change out the ring and the cloak for a Mighty (+1 STR) Comp Long Bow +1 if do not want to use ranged spells... but a Magus is not that great of a ranged character so just throwing out an Acid Splash when you have to is not too bad in a pinch. (You really need to be in close combat with a Magus.)
I might drop the Amulet of Natural Armor for a couple of 1st-lvl Pearls of Power
Note that you get 2 feats at 5th level.
I am still struggling with an initial Magus build as well, here's a couple suggestions
May want to consider bumping Str to 13 so you can qualify for Power Attack to use in concert with Dervish Dance.
I'd take the Magical Lineage Trait with Shocking Grasp then eventually pick up Intensified Spell once you're past 5th level.
What arcana are you looking at? If you're not bladebound, may want to take Close Range as your 3rd level Arcana.
I am still struggling with an initial Magus build as well, here's a couple suggestions
May want to consider bumping Str to 13 so you can qualify for Power Attack to use in concert with Dervish Dance.
I'd take the Magical Lineage Trait with Shocking Grasp then eventually pick up Intensified Spell once you're past 5th level.
What arcana are you looking at? If you're not bladebound, may want to take Close Range as your 3rd level Arcana.
I haven't taken a look at the arcana yet, but this campaign starts at 5th level.
I'll think about intensified spell, but I wouldn't take it for a while, maybe 9th level.
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I'm not convinced that arcane strike will be that great. Your magus might be using swift actions in other ways and AS isn't that impressive of a damage boost (though at least it doesn't lower the magus's already shaky to hit). Extra arcane pool is always nice to power spell recall and the keen bonus you'll be adding most fights. Instead of close range, you might take wand wielder and buy a wand of shocking grasp for cheap to start out. The +3 to hit for a lot of fights is even better than the extra damage over acid splash. Anyway enjoy your magus. I just started a dex magus and I'm really loving his spinning, dancing, spell weaving style!
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Maxximilius, can you link a ruling on this? Most of the posts I've read list the dervish dance build for a magus as legal.
"At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand."
Seems pretty clear to me, or else two-weapon fighting wouldn't have been mentioned, even less the fact that this functions as if the spell is a off-hand weapon.
I humbly guess that if this was intended to consider the off-hand free during spell combat, the description would just say something like "this capacity allows you to additionally cast a spell during a full-round attack action by taking -2 to all your attacks of this round".
A spell is considered as a weapon in your off-hand when using spell combat. So, no free-hand for Dervish Dance.Dervish Dance. . . +1 Scimitar. . .Not usable with Weapon Finesse, unless I'm missing something.
There's another magus archetype that allows you to wield a force athame and still be considered having a "free" hand for casting spells and delivering touch attacks. (UM Page 149)
However, I think the quote is referring to the mechanics being invoked since you end up with a -2 to hit later referenced in the Spell Combat mechanic.
Later under spell combat, where you're quoting from it also states;
To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand
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In fact, there's another magus archetype that allows you to wield a force athame and still be considered having a "free" hand for casting spells and delivering touch attacks. (UM Page 149)
Well, the answer is already in yours.
"[...] the hand holding (the athame) is still considered free for the purpose of casting spells and delivering touch attacks."
When this expression is used, it's always exhaustive.
Being able to still "cast and deliver touch attack" doesn't mean the hand is free, only that you can still use a spell as an off-hand weapon for spell combat. By raw, your hand is not totally free, it's free only for casting spells and using touch attacks.
So, no dervish dance since your hand uses spell combat. Though, I guess you could use dervish dance with spellstrike or during normal full-attacks since these does not fill your free hand with a spell. It still isn't worth to lose your major class ability for some damage points.
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Maxximilius, can you link a ruling on this? Most of the posts I've read list the dervish dance build for a magus as legal."At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand."
Seems pretty clear to me, or else two-weapon fighting wouldn't have been mentioned, even less the fact that this functions as if the spell is a off-hand weapon.
I humbly guess that if this was intended to consider the off-hand free during spell combat, the description would just say something like "this capacity allows you to additionally cast a spell during a full-round attack action by taking -2 to all your attacks of this round".
I read that as more of an analogy for how spell combat works with the "much like" in there. Also what, happens when using spellstrike where the off-hand doesn't deliver the spell at all?
Dervish dance looks more at whether something is actually held in the off hand (without getting into carried vs. wielded):
You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.
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I read that as more of an analogy for how spell combat works with the "much like" in there. Also what, happens when using spellstrike where the off-hand doesn't deliver the spell at all?
Dervish dance looks more at whether something is actually held in the off hand (without getting into carried vs. wielded):
You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.
That's how I read it. Also, in order to even start spell combat you must have one hand free, I don't believe you disqualify from Dervish dance during the Spell Combat's sequence of actions, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Personally, it doesn't matter to me, I am trying a STR build. However, a definitive answer from Paizo would clear it up.
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I read that as more of an analogy for how spell combat works with the "much like" in there. Also what, happens when using spellstrike where the off-hand doesn't deliver the spell at all?
Dervish dance looks more at whether something is actually held in the off hand (without getting into carried vs. wielded):
You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.
Well, it's a pretty precise and useless analogy in this case, since this could have been explained in a perfecty understandable way without having to resort to this example. It still seems clear to me, especially with the precision that the spell works like a off-hand weapon in a two-weapon fighting-like situation. And in this case, the off-hand isn't free anymore from the moment you use Spell combat since it is like a held weapon.
Spellstrike not using the off-hand is an interesting question, and like I said before, I guess you could use DD with full-attacks and spellstrikes - though spell combat still precises that you need a free-hand to use it, even if you decide to spellstrike/spell combat at the same time.The spell is considered as a carried weapon at this time. So, DD couldn't apply. From my first reading it looked clear to me that this is how the ability works, but feel free to hit the FAQ button if you believe more detail is needed.
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Well, sorry to thread jack again, but I had one more consideration for how DD is interpreted. If you read it as Maxximilius has, then a creature/character with claws would never be able to use the feat.
I hope they clear this up officially as I imagine a lot of scimitar magus's are already hitting PFS play.
Well, sorry to thread jack again, but I had one more consideration for how DD is interpreted. If you read it as Maxximilius has, then a creature/character with claws would never be able to use the feat.
I hope they clear this up officially as I imagine a lot of scimitar magus's are already hitting PFS play.
Well, here's a thread from PFS that James answers around Dervish Dance. Again, though, I think the question is "a spell" considered a weapon. I also asked on the Ask James Jacob thread, hope he answers!
I'm not convinced that arcane strike will be that great. Your magus might be using swift actions in other ways and AS isn't that impressive of a damage boost (though at least it doesn't lower the magus's already shaky to hit). Extra arcane pool is always nice to power spell recall and the keen bonus you'll be adding most fights. Instead of close range, you might take wand wielder and buy a wand of shocking grasp for cheap to start out. The +3 to hit for a lot of fights is even better than the extra damage over acid splash. Anyway enjoy your magus. I just started a dex magus and I'm really loving his spinning, dancing, spell weaving style!
Getting back the build portion. I am debating arcane strike, it does scale and with Bladebound archetype it stacks with Black Blade Strike (untyped) and your Arcane Pool (enhancement). You can Arcane Pool enhance (swift) and Black Blade Strike (free action) on round 1 and the for the next 9 rounds, use your swift to Arcane Strike unless you have something better to do. Some of the swift actions are once a day (empowered/maximized) or until the end of your turn (arcane accuracy/spell shield) or per strike (dispelling strike), these can quickly drain points, especially reflection. I guess if you wanted personal haste and didn't want to memorize, hasted assault would at least give you better payback. Some of the better options, don't have any point cost (the two wand arcana, familiar, close range)
I think arcane strike is something you can fall back on in lieu of having no other swift actions. There's more combat arcana coming out with Ultimate combat so that might change. It might just be a feat you put in later on. I think Extra Arcane Pool will end up a must for most build. I am not so sure about Extra Arcana, maybe to pick up Close Range earlier if you're Bladebound.
Probably going to use your pool points mainly to power spell recall or your weapon most of the time, just a hunch.
Well, sorry to thread jack again, but I had one more consideration for how DD is interpreted. If you read it as Maxximilius has, then a creature/character with claws would never be able to use the feat.
I hope they clear this up officially as I imagine a lot of scimitar magus's are already hitting PFS play.
Well, here's a thread from PFS that James answers around Dervish Dance. Again, though, I think the question is "a spell" considered a weapon. I also asked on the Ask James Jacob thread, hope he answers!
You can have an object that's not a weapon or a shield in your off hand. This includes wands or potions or anything that's not a weapon or shield.
I think this answers it. Spells are not objects you hold, they're gestures you make. Pretty clear to me
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Familiar is definitely a solid arcana and opens up the improved familiar feat for later on. Nice to have the alertness bonus and a ready flanking partner for any fight.
Improved initiative will be really handy if you are the one throwing haste on your group (before half of them scatter out of range).
I wish hasted assault opened up earlier. By the time you get it at 9th, you're probably already just casting haste and you're 2 levels from spell recalling it for the same 1 arcane point.
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I think this answers it. Spells are not objects you hold, they're gestures you make. Pretty clear to me
Quoting myself again from the srd :
"At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast."
The spell is an off-hand weapon. So you are actually wielding a weapon in your off-hand from the moment you declare a spell combat round.
By raw, you don't have a free hand anymore when you declare spell combat since you are now wielding a spell in you off-hand, that you could or could not spellstrike with after.
Guess it can be interpreted either way, but come on, it's not like the magus in our group really needed the +3 bonus damage to deal 155 damage with a +1(+3)->+4 keen rapier critical hit containing an intensified, free-empowered shocking grasp at level 10, making an advanced androsphynx imploding. Or the 74 damage in the following round with a critical intensified shocking grasp. >_>
James Jacob responded and basically said YES and NO in the same answer, so outside of errata, I think it falls back to a call by a GM until we see an errata from the design team or FAQ. I'd be interested in seeing the ruling on Pathfinder Society.
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I love the strength magus.
But I recognize that the strength magus works best when you roll a single really high stat (for strength) and a pretty high stat (for intelligence). You have a bunch of pretty high stats, but nothing sky-high enough to really make the strength build sing.
Pearls of power are great for a magus, though not as necessary for a magus as for a wizard, due to the added flexibility of the arcane pool.
Using the magical lineage trait with intensified shocking grasp is kinda like cheating. So I kind of do recommend it, and kinda don't at the same time.
I don't understand why people seem to dislike Arcane strike. It seems like a decent feat. Weapon specialization requires weapon focus and 4 levels of fighter. You can take this feat out of the box and it scales. If you plan to keep magus throughout it seems to be a near match of the chain of feats previously mentioned. I understand it requires a swift action each round so their is a need for some level of action management but since many of the abilities of the class that use swift actions also require an expenditure of your limited arcane pool I can still see using the feat nearly all the time. It also has the added benefit of being usable on what ever weapon you happen to have in hand at the time.