Agree - I really like WHRP's character creation system - careers were fun man! Abilities etc were straight up pretty decent and what's not to love about Fate Points ;)
Cybergeneration
HERO
Earthdawn
Powers & Perils
Tales From The Floating Vagabond
Warhammer - love the flavor, great setting, careers were cool
RIFTS - yeah, horrible system but the universe is cool
Fading Suns - Dune like with a cool mix of low and high tech and fantasy elements
DragonQuest - published by SPI, bought out by TSR
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Wow sooo much dislike of the Rifts and the Palldium system. I honestly think its far superior to any version of DnD ever made. Guess that is just me though.
Probably just you. I love the setting. Especially rifts. But the system is clunky and hard to understand. And it is hell for new gamers to learn. And on top of that, it is written pretty confusingly. DnD was easy to learn.
Alternity. I really liked this rpg and still to this day cannot understand why their has been no new edition
I love it too...several of my first games were in alternity. But the system is hard to learn and clunky. Maybe a little less then Palladium/Rfits but still....
Mutants and Masterminds
Paranoia
Champions
Star Wars d6
Basic Roleplaying
Top Secret
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Bushido
Dungeons and Dragons Rule Compendium
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Alternity 2e was really d20. Alternity was a stepping stone from D&D 2e to D&D 3e.Alternity. I really liked this rpg and still to this day cannot understand why their has been no new edition
Besides using the same Aliens and Creatures in the D20 Future Book and of course both having the Dark*Matter Campaign setting, I fail to see the connection between Alternity (rules) and D20/D&D 3e (rules), so I guess I have to disagree with you there.
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Besides using the same Aliens and Creatures in the D20 Future Book and of course both having the Dark*Matter Campaign setting, I fail to see the connection between Alternity (rules) and D20/D&D 3e (rules), so I guess I have to disagree with you there.
Alternity 2e was really d20. Alternity was a stepping stone from D&D 2e to D&D 3e.
It takes a bit of history to see the connections. If you start with a base of D&D 2e, and compare that with what had changed with Gamma World 4e and Alternity, some of the new mechanics like skill ranks and ability score value ranges appeared in these systems first. Although they had been done elsewhere, they were novel for TSR. Yes, a lot of the fiddly bits with Alternity were discarded (like the Control Die), and many of the mechanics were streamlined. However, I still see Alternity as more of a "pruned branch" than a full separate direction.
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I played 2e, Gamma World (not as much as I liked, still I know (knew) the rules of most editions. I still don't see it.
No HP progression
No auto - boni to combat skills
No real class distinction (cheaper skills and one bonus ability were all there is to a class)
Spellcasting, combat, psionics all resolved through skills.
These are not fiddly bits, that is a complete different design philosophy then either 2nd or 3rd edition D&D.
I'm sure they took something of the Alternity game (skills, skill ranks, although these were present in many other games ), but not nearly enough to see a stepping stone progression 2e D&D -> Alternity -> 3e D&D
Cybergeneration
As someone who contributed a lot to the second edition of that game, I thank you. :)
I played 2e, Gamma World (not as much as I liked, still I know (knew) the rules of most editions. I still don't see it.
No HP progression
No auto - boni to combat skills
No real class distinction (cheaper skills and one bonus ability were all there is to a class)
Spellcasting, combat, psionics all resolved through skills.These are not fiddly bits, that is a complete different design philosophy then either 2nd or 3rd edition D&D.
I'm sure they took something of the Alternity game (skills, skill ranks, although these were present in many other games ), but not nearly enough to see a stepping stone progression 2e D&D -> Alternity -> 3e D&D
I'm with feytharn, here. I would go so far as to say that 3E takes its inspiration from games using the Interlock System or the vast number of other Stat + Skill + D(X) vs. Difficulty systems that were prevalent at the time that 3E was written. Alternity uses a completely different type of resolution system (Closer to today's Cortex system, really - seriously, there's a bunch of Alternity in there... or maybe I'm just crazy). Alternity is essentially a classless system, and while it may have found a modicum of support in D20 Future, I don't rightly see a connection between 3E and Alternity.
Mind you, I still think Alternity is vastly underrated and I loved it to pieces - I just don't see the tie.
Oh, new vote for underrated game from me (I know, I know), but Spycraft 2.0. For all the problems of the first edition, the second was a lot tighter, better put together, and really very enjoyable. The chase rules are a little clunky, but the character classes and archetypes are engaging, most are pretty darned unique, and with a little tweaking you can run everything from "Indiana Jones And The Monkey God Of The Amazon" all the way up to "Super Spies Of The 31st Century".
I forgot to mention earlier: Talislanta.
It was using the d20 + stat + skill system for over a decade before 3E was released. Ok, it uses a -difficulty instead of a DC. Which I think it is better, because if your modified result is a 10 or better, you succeed. If your modified roll is 20+, you critical. If your modified roll is 1 or less, you crit fail.
It has a fairly unique magic system, one that lets you craft your own spells. It also has a fairly unique and well detailed world.
The other amazing thing about Talislanta, they released the PDFs for free on the internet.
On the Rolemaster issue, I just have to jump in and add that most of the things people look for houserules on like facing, critical effects, and effects of low HP, are all covered by Rolemaster. Rather than trying to add all these to Pathfinder, people should just try Rolemaster.
I could take this system to a D&D type setting, or to the Rifts setting and it would work fairly well in either situation... which is pretty cool.
I have had success running a historic 1920's Gangster one-shot and an online 1980's James Bond campaign with M&M. I think it is far more versatile than people give it credit for.
C'mon guys - no love for Golden Heroes??? 4 stats, actions measured in frames [as in comic book frames/panels], quirky campaign mechanics and suitably vague powers... [i[Legacy of E.A.G.L.E.S.[/i] anyone?
Wow sooo much dislike of the Rifts and the Palldium system. I honestly think its far superior to any version of DnD ever made. Guess that is just me though.
I agree Rifts gets a very bum wrap...though I don't think it is far superior to any version of D&D....but that is a matter of taste.
Really I don't get it I have been playing Rifts for years...the rules work fine...actualy I can honestly say that there are alot less rules arguement when we play Rifts than say D&D or HERO system.
Maybe people just hate on it because Palladium givs lie to the 'fact' games need new edition every few years to remain alfoat...or that you can only get into one setting and be successful...etc.
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Artesia: Adventures in the Known World
Best game book I ever bought. Not only does it look beautiful from start to finish, but the system is genuinely interesting, if not perfect. However it has the hands down best character advancement system of any game ever.
Agreed, the lifepath was awesome.
Also, I'm pretty much in love with the Fuzion skill/skill cap and the gifts/bindings systems. And to boot it had the awesomest armor section ever in the equipment chapter (three-quarter bannerman's harness!).
I don't know if it's necessarily "under-rated" since it has won several awards since coming out, but the Dragon Age RPG by Green Ronin is surprisingly good. I expected it to be just a video game tie-in, but now that I've been able to play it here on the boards I really like it. Simple enough to pick up easily and keep play moving quickly, but the simple stunt system makes the whole thing feel more cinematic. Even though it was made with first-time role players in mind, I think with the addition of the second set it's growing into a really good game.
Maybe "under-played" is a better term, since I haven't met too many people that have tried it out.
Castle Falkenstein and SLA Industries have been mentioned, but there's one I recall that I had much fondness for, The Whispering Vault (1993). I don't know, maybe it was our GM, or the game... but I really loved it.
Artesia: Adventures in the Known World
Best game book I ever bought. Not only does it look beautiful from start to finish, but the system is genuinely interesting, if not perfect. However it has the hands down best character advancement system of any game ever.
Agreed, the lifepath was awesome.
Also, I'm pretty much in love with the Fuzion skill/skill cap and the gifts/bindings systems. And to boot it had the awesomest armor section ever in the equipment chapter (three-quarter bannerman's harness!).
Armour? Do you think your armour means anything to me? Hathalla,Queen of Vengeance, fill me with your Fury
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My favorite's in the "underrated" category are:
D6 Star Wars (Roll up a character in 10 minutes and get playing!)
Top Secret S.I. (Great percentage based system with some fun add-on's, died the infamous TSR death)
Outside the category of "underrated" would be:
Shadowrun (1E, 2E, 3E, or 4E, doesn't matter, the world is just tons of fun to play in).
Victory Games, "James Bond 007."
Still my favorite RPG of all time.
I've recently read about this Senzar RPG. Apparently when it was launched it was reviled as one of the worst games of all time, mostly because the creators were d***s and it was a powergamers dream come true. More recent reviews say the game has actually pretty solid rules and it is pretty awesome at what it sets out to do. Which is being a powergamers dream come true. Kinda like an Exalted that was launched at the wrong time. I really would like to find a copy of this game to judge by myself.
Review that picked my interest.
Posting more love for Space Master/RM/Merp/Cyberspace. I still miss the critical charts. (though my players don't)
One more for Fading Suns! Woot. Enjoyed the d20 reboot of that also.
One of my personal favorite under rated games:
Aftermath! by Fantasy Games Unlimited.
Tack on Flashing Blades by the same company.
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I think GR model of selling the game in seperate boxed sets rather than in one book does not help DA either imo. I like DA yet until either all the boxed sets are out or the compile the rules into one book I'm not touching the the rpg. Not exaclty fun to start an rpg and then arrive at a dead end because the Devs have not published the next rules expansion.
Maybe people just hate on it because Palladium givs lie to the 'fact' games need new edition every few years to remain alfoat...or that you can only get into one setting and be successful...etc.
Yeah, because that would be a rational thing that a non-imaginary non-straw-man person would hate on. :P
Personally, I hate on the Palladium rules as a result of having spent a fair amount of time playing with them, and a fair amount of time playing with other game systems, back before d20 largely eclipsed all. Great setting(s)! Great ideas! But Palladium combat bogs down like nothing I've seen before or since, not because players are taking that long to make up their mind of what they want to do on their turn (a frequent criticism of D&D 3.X I've heard) but because you just had to roll that many damn dice in succession to resolve each attack, and Rifts especially is the best example of power creep in a system ever published.
Top Secret S.I. (Great percentage based system with some fun add-on's, died the infamous TSR death)
I so miss Top Secret. I'd still play that if I could find someone to run it.
Especially since now I probably wouldn't be playing with teenagers who all picked ridiculous ego signature flaws, total cruelty, etc. Man, I loved that system of rating traits as an alternative to an alignment system for that game, too.
Maybe people just hate on it because Palladium givs lie to the 'fact' games need new edition every few years to remain alfoat...or that you can only get into one setting and be successful...etc.
Yeah, because that would be a rational thing that a non-imaginary non-straw-man person would hate on. :P
Personally, I hate on the Palladium rules as a result of having spent a fair amount of time playing with them, and a fair amount of time playing with other game systems, back before d20 largely eclipsed all. Great setting(s)! Great ideas! But Palladium combat bogs down like nothing I've seen before or since, not because players are taking that long to make up their mind of what they want to do on their turn (a frequent criticism of D&D 3.X I've heard) but because you just had to roll that many damn dice in succession to resolve each attack, and Rifts especially is the best example of power creep in a system ever published.
You roll to hit...the defender may roll to defend...if you hit you roll damage. That really is not that hard. Really ir is no different from D&D....except for the fact that the defender may dodge or parry....at most it is three dice rolls. How is this 'too many dmn dice in succession'?
And they actualy fixed the power creep for the most part.
SilCore (Tribe 8) the rules system is great, the setting is cool, but the scope is, alas, too small...
Adventure! - my, did we have fun flying that biplane into that old temple!
Spycraft
True20
And they actualy fixed the power creep for the most part.How did they do that? That sounds like one of those "can't unpublish" problems.
They went back and fixed the two books(the two SA books) that were the biggest culprits...they also went back to increase the power level of some of the things in the base book.
After that they have tried to keep the power level down. Are they alwats successful...no but which game is?
Actualy I think at times they have gone in the direct opposite direction of power creep.
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I really wish they had left the two South America books alone. Carella damage values actually made sense. As opposed to what is the norm in Rifts. A guy with an energy rifle does more damage than the main gun of a tank, giant robot. They dont even give a logical reason for the damage values. Beyond at least from what I can see is a reaosn to increase PC survivablity while totally imo destroying suspension if disbeleif.
Army of Darkness (Eden Studios)
I really wish they had left the two South America books alone. Carella damage values actually made sense. As opposed to what is the norm in Rifts. A guy with an energy rifle does more damage than the main gun of a tank, giant robot. They dont even give a logical reason for the damage values. Beyond at least from what I can see is a reaosn to increase PC survivablity while totally imo destroying suspension if disbeleif.
Well the personal weapons needed to be changed....but yeah I kinda agree with you in that weapons on giant robots should probably do more damage. That sorta was where I think they kinda went in the opposite direction of power creep.
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Well the personal weapons needed to be changed....but yeah I kinda agree with you in that weapons on giant robots should probably do more damage. That sorta was where I think they kinda went in the opposite direction of power creep.
If they would give a logical in game reason for why the weapons damage values were so wonky it would not bother me. Instead they nerfed the damage values to increase player survivaability. Which is a good idea except not when you sell the rpg as being "deadly and dangerous". When the guy with the energy pistol does more damage than a turret on a battleship something is wrong imo. Even Star Wars D6 had you double dmaamge values on ground targets if the weapons were fired from something large enough. Such as an AT-AT or a battlecruiser.
- Earthdawn (But not the Living Room Games "2nd" edition)
- Aberrant (I love that system)
- Star Wars (d6)
- 'Mechwarrior 2 (especially with the addition of the companion)
- Earthdawn (But not the Living Room Games "2nd" edition)
I agree!
- Aberrant (I love that system)
Shun :) I am glad you enjoy it I wish I did. I personally find any system that you have 7-12 health levels and the difference between min damage for an attack(mega str 5 + mono sword im looking at you!) and max "soak" can be 15+ to be broken.
Now it is one of the few settings developed for a game that is really, really solid.
- Earthdawn (But not the Living Room Games "2nd" edition)I agree!
- Aberrant (I love that system)Shun :) I am glad you enjoy it I wish I did. I personally find any system that you have 7-12 health levels and the difference between min damage for an attack(mega str 5 + mono sword im looking at you!) and max "soak" can be 15+ to be broken.
Now it is one of the few settings developed for a game that is really, really solid.
*Shrug* It's the difference between being the Hulk (or equivalent) and something far more fragile. Besides which, that's why people tend to spend nova points on armor and ranks of personal force field, etc. And to me, the thing you're not liking is what allows for the the system to allow you to actually create characters that are super, even at creation -- unlike other supers type systems where the typical starting character would get beat into powder by most second- or third- string comic book characters.
Now, having said that, it can be very, very ard to balance the opposition in those games, for that reason -- but if you can find the sweet spot, it's pretty darn fun.
Oh I also forgot:
Star Frontiers!
(80's sci fi goodness)
Star Frontiers! (80's sci fi goodness)
Wow, I haven't played that in ... well, forever, really...
In fact, Star Frontiers was the whole reason I was willing to try Alternity.