As you know, I've been playing a druidess/bard. We're 11th level, and as we were travelling through a town called Coalmore, we learned that the miners are on strike, and the big man of the town has hired thugs to try to intimidate the miners into honoring their contract.
My PC is chaotic neutral, but we're travelling with a paladin, and he's caused enough stir about standing up for justice, that I don't think we can just leave town without resolving this problem.
So, primarily because I think it would be interesting, I thought I'd come here for advice on what we should do. I suppose slaying the big man in the town is out of the question, especially with a paladin in the party and all. Besides, my character is chaotic neutral, not chaotic evil. (But wait, if you are CN, and you kill a guy to make life in a town more pleasant, is that really an evil act?) Anyway, it is out of the question.
The party consists of the following characters:
Asgar, an 11th level paladin who is invested with legal authority as a "chevron".
Noralith Andonna, my chaotic neutral 1st level sorceress/4th level druidess/6th level bard.
Dolonar, an 11th level halfling rogue.
Nicodemus, an 11th level gnome sorcerer.
Orlen, an 11th level gnome oracle.
Find out why the miners are striking. Is it because of unsafe working conditions, insufficient pay, mysterious disappearances caused by mysterious creatures that only an 11th level party can handle. . . ?
Call treants to kill them all -- then stop the treants right before they attack and ask everyone if they would very much like to sit down for some tea while you tell them how this is going to be resolved.
Chaotic neutral is perhaps the easiest alignment to justify just about any action. If you play the alignment as "it's all about me" then so long as your druid has any reason to go against the big man of the town (say, for example, he kicks his dog) then you could justify pretty much whatever you want.
If, however, you play "chaotic neutral" as "anything to restore balance" then you might have to investigate the mine and its impact on the local ecosystem itself. Doing so may convince you that the mine itself needs to be shut down.
Frankly that's probably the tack I would take in a situation like that with my druid if she were chaotic neutral. Since she is lawful neutral and the "lawful" part is to follow the "law of nature" she would probably consider the whole dispute to be completely outside her range of interest and not have any desire to get involved at all.
I seriously think if she were chaotic neutral her immediate impulse would be to simply shut down the whole mine and resolve the dispute that way.
She has been using her social abilities to talk to people, and found out that the miners are striking because of safety conditions. They also want to cut their hours from 80 to 60 hours a week.
She's encountered the big man of the town before and does not much like him. But for some reason, she just feels inclined to be charitable toward his point of view. The rest of the party has taken an antagonistic stance towards him and the thugs he's hired, especially considering some of the things that have been said about gnomes.
Philosophically, she is kind of an existentialist, and coming from a barbarian background she believes that everybody needs to take responsibility for their own problems. So it doesn't matter to her whether the strikers prevail, whether the big man prevails, or whether they come to some sort of compromise, or whether the mine stays shut down forever. She's just in it to help the paladin.
I think you should approach the problem with the mindset of "What would my character do?" instead of "What would a chaotic neutral aligned character be justified in doing?"
It seems like your character has a strong background and a flavorful concept. Use this to help you come up with a decision you like the most.
Chaotic neutral is, perhaps, the easiest alignment to justify doing anything with but I still consider constraining your character's actions to the alignment you wrote on your sheet a little bit of a bad habit but what do I know.
As a druid, you don't have to care about the workers. It isn't like you share a mystical bond with the Interplanar Worker's Rights League. However you do share a tie with nature and thereby obligated to make sure the mining operation is being done in a reasonable way. I use the nebulous term reasonable because it is up to you to determine what is reasonable.
What is reasonable could range from is enforcing the mitigation of environmental impact to making sure you get your fair share of the profits.
As a bard, doing nothing is pretty boring, don't you think? It is hard to tell a story or write an epic ballad about nothing! You're sitting on a great story of the underdog and as you know everyone loves a good story where the underdog wins!
Hope I helped!
As a bard, doing nothing is pretty boring, don't you think? It is hard to tell a story or write an epic ballad about nothing! You're sitting on a great story of the underdog and as you know everyone loves a good story where the underdog wins!
Kill them all and take their stuff.
A good choice, but alas, it won't work given the criteria. The silly paladin will probably stand in the way of mother nature's vengeance. What a surprise.
The best you can do is to side clearly with the PROPER AUTHORITY of the big man in town. If the paladin doesn't respect the proper authority, well, I guess he shouldn't be a paladin? Hopefully so many miners will leave/be killed being subjugated to the big man's will that the mining operation will fail and the earth will win.
Use your bardic abilities to calm the emotions of the miners and let them see that the big man has a point. Enthrall, hypnotize. . . there's lots of options. Or, if they keep defying said big man, the miners will have a point. . . in them. Maybe some good ol' intimidation will do the trick if you can get the paladin to scoot away for a while. . . .
Well, I still think even a multi-classed druid would first look into the mine's ecological footprint before even considering what side to get involved on, if any at all. If the mine is an environmental blight on the earth, I just don't see any type of druid helping to get it back in operation for any reason, buddy of the paladin or no. If I were in this situation I would probably do some investigation, find some things that could be improved (like perhaps hauling the tailings away from a critical creek watershed) and negotiate with the big guy that you will help if he promises to correct that particular problem. Then you can intervene with a good conscience.
After thinking it over, here's what I'd do. . .
1) Initially speak to the miners as if you actually mean to help them. Tell them you'll have a talk with the big guy and get this situation resolved.
2) Talk to the big guy (with the paladin in tow) and act as neutral as possible. Listen to his viewpoints and tell him (and paladin) that you'll try to talk to the miners to understand the big guy's perspective. . . but after you and the party get some well-earned rest.
3) Leave a note with the big guy while leaving that you wish to have a secret, private meeting to discuss how to get rid of the miner problem. . . permanently.
4) Hint to the paladin (after the meeting) that the big guy has some unnatural features. Perhaps he has a certain type of possession or illness that makes him a bit. . . unstable.
5) That night, get away from the party (perhaps you need a walk. . .) and meet with the big guy and possibly his henchmen. Get the big guy alone (or use fascinate/suggestion) and convince him (through magic or diplomacy) that the miners (all of them) have a secret plan to kill him in his sleep. Late this evening, big guy must slaughter them before they slaughter him. . . *convince* him that there's no other way.
6) That evening, take the party on a wild goose chase outside of town. Tell them that you saw what appeared to be the big guy roaming in the woods on your walk. Buy the big guy time to do his magic.
7) Hopefully the big guy will have killed all the miners.
8) When you confront the big guy, convince the paladin to attack the big guy and his henchmen for their dastardly deeds! Surely no proper authority figure would slaughter his own people in cold blood. If the big guy blames you for all of this, tell the paladin he's simply mad and psychotically paranoid.
9) Paladin smites him (or at least attacks him, since I assume the big guy isn't evil).
10) Big guy and miners are all dead. Earth 1. Coalmore 0.
The player playing a bard in the campaign I DM faced this situation in Falcon's Hollow. She opposed oppressive hierarchy wherever she found it. She defused a riot, dealt with its cause (a short adventure), killed the boss' ambushers, then got the boss arrested and successfully tried.
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Druids were invented before the earth had a martyr complex. Before the words 'ecological footprint' were ever uttered. And long before anybody thought of the earth as something that needs to be protected. You gain power and protection from the earth, not the other way around. The Earth is a 4,550,000,000-year-old, 5,973,600,000,000,000,000,000-tonne ball of iron. It has taken more devastating asteroid hits in its lifetime than you've had hot dinners, and lo, it still orbits merrily. Let the man-creatures mine out precious metals from the surface layers that amount to the earth's dead skin cells. Somebody has to make those scimitars and sickles for you.
Anyways, your character is probably not much concerned about honoring contracts. He may or may not care about getting paid (If he does, make sure to pitch it as 'honoring the contract' to the paladin). He may or may not care about the miners (If he does, that should be an easy sell to the paladin).
Summon some earth elementals to intimidate the miners? Should be worth a circumstance bonus. As a bonus, you can also use earth elementals to help with the mine's conditions. If you can't summon elementals, you can always summon a believable illusion, because you're a bard.
Re-negotiate the contract, for a fee? Depends on how persuasive your bard is.
I don't really know what your character's strengths and weaknesses are, now that I think about it. I've never played a caster who multi-classed so heavily.
As a bard, it certainly seems that she is expected to help the miners. A couple of stories come to my mind, including:
1. A story where this guy wanted to convince the mine owner to support better safety standards in the mine, so he convinced him to have a party inside the mine, and then caused a cave-in. That convinced the guy about the importance of safety standards.
2. A story where this hooker wanted a strike resolved. The business leader also wanted to run for a political office. She threatened to reveal some secrets if he did not negotiate.
However, seeing as the situation is being set up so heavily in the strikers' favor, there is a contrarian instinct to support the big man.
As a druid, I think she'll have to do some communing that night to try to determine what Silvanus wants her to do. But her instincts are to see the mine as a part of the earth. Beavers build dams, and humans and dwarves build mines. As long as the coal industry does not threaten to take over the world, or pollute outside of its environs, she is okay with it.
Still, she might want to do some investigation on whether the mine might be a threat to the local area.
The best course of action might be to use her Suggestion ability to get the leaders to negotiate in good faith. Perhaps she can convince them to play a card game to wager the stakes.
Or perhaps subject them to a test of bravery to resolve the wager. That would fit in with her barbarian background, although they're not likely to agree to it.
AHHH! We're going about this all wrong!
You're a bard. Find the daughter of the mine owner. Seduce her. Get her to get her father to settle with the miners so that you can do something fun elsewhere! It's a win-win!
Edit: ... or just do the mine owner. Whatever.
AHHH! We're going about this all wrong!
You're a bard. Find the daughter of the mine owner. Seduce her. Get her to get her father to settle with the miners so that you can do something fun elsewhere! It's a win-win!
Edit: ... or just do the mine owner. Whatever.
I didn't mention: My PC is engaged to the Paladin.
You're a bard. Find the daughter of the mine owner. Seduce her. Get her to get her father to settle with the miners so that you can do something fun elsewhere! It's a win-win!I didn't mention: My PC is engaged to the Paladin.
I'm sorry? I don't understand your point?
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Now, philosophy can vary wildly from one druid to the next, but I tend to approach it with a simple maxim: the "intelligent" races are still animals and still part of the natural world.
This makes it way easier to decide how to interact with societies, while still giving a fair range of opinions between druids.
With that in mind, working miners to death isn't any better than working your farm animals to death. And chaining them is no different than damming a great river.
There's a flipside here, of course, because it is in mankind's nature to be "inhuman" against his fellow man. Few druids would intervene in the hierarchy scuffles of a wolf pack. In fact it may be that the violent solution, with the miners testing their case against their lord by force of arms, is the most beautiful and natural outcome to the events.
As a chaotic druid, I would think your character sees the natural world as something primal and uncontrollable. So humanity's natural state would also be primal and uncontrollable. I'd shoot clear past the paladin, trying to convince them to throw off their bonds entirely, searching for freedom red in tooth and claw.
I didn't mention: My PC is engaged to the Paladin.
Which brings up another motivation: what is more human, or more natural, than doing things you don't want and risking your neck to impress your betrothed?
Cheers!
Landon
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Which brings up another motivation: what is more human, or more natural, than doing things you don't want and risking your neck to impress your betrothed?
Undermining them in public.
Druids were invented before the earth had a martyr complex. Before the words 'ecological footprint' were ever uttered. And long before anybody thought of the earth as something that needs to be protected. You gain power and protection from the earth, not the other way around. The Earth is a 4,550,000,000-year-old, 5,973,600,000,000,000,000,000-tonne ball of iron. It has taken more devastating asteroid hits in its lifetime than you've had hot dinners, and lo, it still orbits merrily. Let the man-creatures mine out precious metals from the surface layers that amount to the earth's dead skin cells. Somebody has to make those scimitars and sickles for you.
Anyways, your character is probably not much concerned about honoring contracts. He may or may not care about getting paid (If he does, make sure to pitch it as 'honoring the contract' to the paladin). He may or may not care about the miners (If he does, that should be an easy sell to the paladin).
Summon some earth elementals to intimidate the miners? Should be worth a circumstance bonus. As a bonus, you can also use earth elementals to help with the mine's conditions. If you can't summon elementals, you can always summon a believable illusion, because you're a bard.
Re-negotiate the contract, for a fee? Depends on how persuasive your bard is.
I don't really know what your character's strengths and weaknesses are, now that I think about it. I've never played a caster who multi-classed so heavily.
Heh, by this logic druids are completely unconcerned about any threat to the natural world, including chaotic evil arsonists setting continent wide forest fires. This may be your view but I doubt you would find a handful of players at a gaming convention who agreed with this interpretation of druidic philosophy.
In the common understanding of druids and their philosophy about nature's balance, it would be an unusual druid who didn't explore the mine's impact to the environment as part of their decision to intervene.
I'd be inclined to agree with you for the most part Brass, but on the same token we do have to remember that in the era most fantasy game settings are in, humans are unlikely to possess the necessary technology to really contribute in a hugely detrimental manner to the environment through a mine. It's not like modern day, where we can (and sadly, often do) strip mine something to the point where nothing would ever grow there again, we're talking about some peasants with pickaxes cutting a most likely negligible hole into the side of a mountain.
To really come up answer the question I think I would need more information. Specifically, as others have mentioned, you have a VERY odd mechanically selection of classes in your character. Not that it's bad or anything, but I would really need some explanation as to what this character's overall motivation it is, given you have a class that typically is concerned with the natural world versus one that traditionally is concerned with the goings on of big, urban environments.
As for the paladin, they should be siding with the legitimate authority and telling the miners to get their tails back to work, right after the legitimate authority fulfills their responsibility to ensure that work is safe. 80 hours a week of physical labor is a lot (I've done it before, for months in a stretch), but it won't kill you... and plus, we don't know how long "a week" is in this particular world.
I'd be inclined to agree with you for the most part Brass, but on the same token we do have to remember that in the era most fantasy game settings are in, humans are unlikely to possess the necessary technology to really contribute in a hugely detrimental manner to the environment through a mine. It's not like modern day, where we can (and sadly, often do) strip mine something to the point where nothing would ever grow there again, we're talking about some peasants with pickaxes cutting a most likely negligible hole into the side of a mountain.
To really come up answer the question I think I would need more information. Specifically, as others have mentioned, you have a VERY odd mechanically selection of classes in your character. Not that it's bad or anything, but I would really need some explanation as to what this character's overall motivation it is, given you have a class that typically is concerned with the natural world versus one that traditionally is concerned with the goings on of big, urban environments.
As for the paladin, they should be siding with the legitimate authority and telling the miners to get their tails back to work, right after the legitimate authority fulfills their responsibility to ensure that work is safe. 80 hours a week of physical labor is a lot (I've done it before, for months in a stretch), but it won't kill you... and plus, we don't know how long "a week" is in this particular world.
Robb, there are many scientists who believe that the Sahara Desert was created through human agricultural overgrazing.
I live in a state in the US that has spent billions and billions of dollars in "Superfund" amounts cleaning up environmental disasters caused by mines that were dug and worked with mules and pickaxes. Tailings are generally the worst offenders, and most hand-dug mines simply dump tailings right at the entrance to the mine, creating huge heavy-metal laden piles of earth that leech into local streams and groundwater.
The largest environmental threat in the world today, outside of ocean overfishing and pollution, is the slash-and-burn clearing of equatorial rainforests, virtually all of which is done by people using nothing but axes and torches.
Don't underestimate the environmental damage that can be done by pre-industrial humans.
I think my character should definitely prepare a speak with animals spell tomorrow and go inquiring how the situation is in the woods.
As for what a chaotic druid/bard is like, it's kind of like taking all of Julie Andrews characters that she portrayed in the movies, and combining them into one, then giving that character a longspear.
I think my character should definitely prepare a speak with animals spell tomorrow and go inquiring how the situation is in the woods.
As for what a chaotic druid/bard is like, it's kind of like taking all of Julie Andrews characters that she portrayed in the movies, and combining them into one, then giving that character a longspear.
I totally cracked up at that image.
Noralith Andonna, my chaotic neutral 1st level sorceress/4th level druidess/6th level bard.
My question is what do you do to help party with that build?
Wow, I wish my bard's problems were this simple and straight foreword.
You are a third, well... not quite so neutral party. You, flanked by your paladin beloved, should offer to hold negotiations. CN, trying to please your intended. If it don't work, it don't work. There is very little adventurers can really do in this situation, unless you and your future husband want to settle down in one place and police that these guys are going to continue to get along.
Because, let's face it, if things in the mine have devolved to this point, there is a lot of animosity brewing that a bard with fancy words and/or magic isn't going to be able to deal with. You get them to talk, you can change their attitudes towards you the charismatic bard, but you cannot change their attitudes towards each other.
Things to bear in mind.
What I would not give for a labor dispute in my campaign. But noooo, I gotta be one party trying to forestall some demon worshiping sex cult operating on the shadow plane while avoiding being murdered by a cult of ancient black wyrm worshipers, and now have to deal with the chaotic influence of an Eldest in my free time. Oh, and maintaining a functioning romantic relationship with a kind-hearted oracle when my character is essentially a triple agent at this point.
In the session, my character ended up not doing very much, especially not much that required any class abilities at all.
There was a thug trying to cause trouble in the bar. My character wanted to diffuse the tension with her diplomatic abilities, but the Paladin intimidated him into leaving, instead.
Then someone came up with the idea to buy the coal mine. My character used Bardic Knowledge to figure out the approximate cost of the mine, which allowed her to suggest a value about half that when they negotiated a deal with the mine owner.
Because of my character's neutrality, she did not use her abilities to try to negotiate a deal. She happened to have a really fine outfit that she could use to present herself as a serious negotiator, and made a few helpful comments during the negotiation. If she really tried, the Paladin probably could have gotten a better deal -- especially if she tried using her Suggestion ability. But she felt it to be wrong to use her Suggestion ability for this purpose. (odd, since she is chaotic neutral, but oh well.)
At the end of the negotiations, the Paladin said that the owner should be sure to treat his future workers nicely. The owner said that until he got the money, they were _his_ workers.
My character: They belong to nobody, except for themselves.
Owner: Ah, women, with no real grasp of the world.
My character: I am a Druid. I know the _real_ world.
So, I guess being a Druid meant I got a good line in.
Back at the bar there was a fight, and the Paladin and my character got there just in time to see the leader of the thugs bleeding on the floor, so my character "called on the spirits of the earth", casting stabilize on him. It was not a necessary gesture, as the Paladin quickly healed up everybody who needed healing. But she did use some of her spells to clean up the bar and repair damage.
I don't know where the Paladin is going to get the money, but my character will be preparing call animal and speak with animal to try to assess the mine's impact on the general area. It might even be a good way for her to get her new animal companion.
On the other hand, if it falls under new management, she can make sure it respects any environmental regulations she can think of. (can they hire someone to cast neutralize poison on the tailing?)
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I did forget one other cool use of bardic power. After healing the thugs who started the bar fight, my druid used Summon Nature's Ally to summon a giant centipede in front of the leader of the thugs, and then suggested that he and his friends get them out of town. Then the Paladin marched them all out of the bar, with the centipede following them to the door.
I don't know of those guys are going to want to go into that bar again. Unfortunately, after my character told these guys to get out of town, the Paladin marched them to the town jail and locked them up, so now they CAN'T get out of town. Sometimes having lawful and chaotic characters in the same party can be disorganized.