When GM'ing, my group uses a gridded dry erase board. It makes the game more fun (in my opinion) and makes things simpler for everyone. But Ive hit a snag with using a labyrinth in my upcoming session. Im seeing a few way to do this:
1) Only show them what they see at the given moment and erase what theyve already walked through.
2) Show them what they see at any given moment and require regular Int/Survival checks to remember what theyve already walked through, using the roll to determine how far back they remember.
3) Keeping everything theyve explored so far visible on the board.
I dont want to make it too easy by just showing everything, b/c that will ruin any instance of the party going in circles, but i still want to use the board for simplicity of combat and puzzles i have in the labyrinth.
Help? :)
Honestly? Don't do mazes. It's not something your game can't live without. They can be boring and frustrating, both to you and your players. If you do want them, they are generally best handled by letting their first foray be hit-or-miss (if you want that), but then letting them find a map or something like that. Also allow liberal intelligence checks for the entire path out.
Banizal, your post brought up some fond old memories, and actually I have some great insight to this. In the "old days" (please don't start a new school vs. old school thread this is not meant to be contentious, merely nostalgic) it was very common for the party of players to select one of the players to be a cartographer.
In many cases it would be a player playing a wizard or bard, or other knowledge based class. This character would, quite literally, have several sheets of graph paper and draw what the GM was describing (unless the GM had a grid map of their own. Speaking of which I just recently got a Gamemastery Flip Mat Basic from Amazon for about $14.00 including shipping and it works great for this type of gaming. I use a set of fine point Expo dry erase markers and it works wonders, but I digress). If the GM had a grid map and was drawing the labyrinth as the game progressed, the appointed cartographer would copy the map line for line on their graph paper.
The in game mentality here is that the knowledge based character would be interested in mapping this location in case they wanted to explore it again later, for further study, or to sell to a collector at some point. Regardless, what you have is a character that is filling a pretty powerful role outside of combat, it helps them feel entirely useful even if they never do anything during encounters. I know this because during a very lengthy campaign, I was that individual. Playing a caster (at least during the low levels) I didn't have a whole lot to offer after my spells were used up, but I was looked to often when mapping questions arose.
I think its hard to justify why party doesn't draw map while realizing its in maze. Also going circles isn't maybe as fun as it sounds.
Unless there are enemies in the maze. For example goblins who know the mazy by heart, attack suddenly from directions and immediatly after that run away. If you in that situation get party splitted, then its reasonable to assume that characters have no time to draw map & running circles gets some exitement.
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Our GM had a good way to do labyrinth. He printed out a copy of a maze he found online. He had the person in the lead draw his way out of the maze. For every minute we spent on the maze, one hour went by in game and he would roll for a random encounter. He also had treasure scattered in various corners and dead-ends in the maze. This way if we to explore we could find random loot, we also had to fight more.
The group had a good time winding its way through the labyrinth, but it did not take too much real time to do.
Our GM had a good way to do labyrinth. He printed out a copy of a maze he found online. He had the person in the lead draw his way out of the maze. For every minute we spent on the maze, one hour went by in game and he would roll for a random encounter. He also had treasure scattered in various corners and dead-ends in the maze. This way if we to explore we could find random loot, we also had to fight more.
The group had a good time winding its way through the labyrinth, but it did not take too much real time to do.
*idea ganked*
That is probably the best way I've ever heard of doing a labrinth. The way we usually do one, is the GM has a map behind the screen, and someone in the party has to be cartogropher. Typically, somewhere in the maze IS a map, and once found the GM pulls it out from behind the screen so everyone can see it; but that doesn't mean it WILL be found.
Remoh, interesting and clever idea.
IMO;
Mazes are tricky. They can be fun, but if handled poorly will be frustrating, boring and Unfun.
- Don't actually try to map it out on the gridded dry erase board. If they get into combat, map that section on the board.
- Don't make it too large.
- Don't require the players to remember/map the maze. Unless a player comes up with a clever plan, use skill or stat checks to navigate the maze.
it was very common for the party of players to select one of the players to be a cartographer.
This brought back a hilarious memory for me.
TL;DR - A guy I didn't know blamed me for his character's death because I left a game in progress with the map.
The year was 1987, and I was at university. I joined a game at the university's RPG club: a 1st edition one-off adventure for high level characters (i.e., lvl 12). There were nine of us. We were given 1 million GP starting cash for the whole group, and were allowed to buy anything at all from the DMG as long as it wasn't an artifact. As a gnome thief, my own needs were mild: a ring of invisibility, slippers of spider climbing, and a half dozen +1 poison-tipped daggers. This left plenty extra gold for the other players.
For some strange reason, it was tradition for the thief to be the cartographer. As the only thief in the party, the sacred duty fell on me.
We entered the dungeon, and I quickly learned I wasn't allowed to speak directly to the DM unless spoken to. Everything had to go through the party leader. So if I had questions about the dimensions of the rooms, I had to go through the leader. I don't think he liked me too much, or maybe he was role-playing, but the map wasn't going too well. Neither was the adventure. These guys were very un-meta, and kept falling for simple traps and ambushes. I'd say, "Um, guys, would you like me to check for traps?" And the response from the party leader would be, "I kick open the door!"
Room after bloody room, it was a war of attrition, and the damage the party took was horrendous. Healing potions ran out quickly. Me, I took no damage at all, invisible on the ceiling as I was. Occasionally, toward the end of an encounter, I would drop down on the back of an unsuspecting victim to do my quadruple back-stab damage (or whatever it was for lvl 12 thieves back then). Otherwise I flung daggers from the safety of the ceiling.
Eventually I got bored and hungry, so I said, "Guys, it's been great, but I have to go." They bid me farewell as I gathered my things and departed.
Months passed. I was standing in line at an ATM and noticed this guy glaring at me. After a few uncomfortable moments I asked him if I could help him. Given that it was 24 years ago there's no way I can remember the exact conversation, but it went something like this:
Him: "We died."
Me: "Excuse me?"
"We all died. Every one of us."
"Uh..."
"You took the map."
"Oh. Oh!" Dawning realization. "I'm, um, sorry."
"We couldn't find our way out, and we all died!"
"I'm really sorry."
Silence returned. A few minutes later I took my cash and beat a hasty retreat.
I would give anything to be able to put my hands on that map today.
Creative Director
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yeah... Pretty much every time I've seen a maze in play it's been more frustrating and annoying than fun. They look neat as maps, but they're almost never fun in play. My suggestion; describe the PCs wandering around in the maze with a few quick sentences, then have them make Survival checks to determine what encounter areas they reach first.
There is a nice section that goes over this topic in the Council of Theives AP #1, Bastards of Erebus if you are interested in research and aren't worried about spoilers.
The PFS scenario
My suggestion; describe the PCs wandering around in the maze with a few quick sentences, then have them make Survival checks to determine what encounter areas they reach first.
You could also use their heuristic to determine logically which encounters / locations they'll come across. For example, if they use the "keep the wall on the left" approach, you can look at your map and apply the same logic to determine their path.
One of the games I played in, the GM printed the "rooms" and areas of the map where there were encounters on regular 8.5x11" (with 1" grids), and so whenever we ran into something, he'd just put down the paper, and then pick it up when we left that area.
At the same time, the ranger made tracking rolls when we got to intersections to make sure that we weren't unknowingly backtracking. (And as we crossed areas we'd been more than once, he also left some small marks in places)
End result: We never saw the whole thing, we were wary about running blindly away from encounters (for fear of getting lost), we didn't need to draw a map on graph paper like we used to in the old days, and we explored a funky new area.
yeah... Pretty much every time I've seen a maze in play it's been more frustrating and annoying than fun. They look neat as maps, but they're almost never fun in play.
+1, I was about to post something similar!
The PFS scenario in question also deals with a maze and has some special rules to handle it.
THIS was an awesome way to handle a maze!
It wasn't dull or boring. It took into account a variety of skills and abilities. And it was really fun to play through.
Very similar to the chase scene in one of the Crimson Throne modules.
CJ
I think abstracting a maze is always a better way to go about things then actually drawing one out. But if you are going to do so, then I recommend (assuming the maze fits on your draw erase board) draw out the whole thing, then cut pieces of paper just a bit larger then every room on the board. You can then cover each room and expose only the room the players are in and can see, and then if you so choose cover up previous rooms again as they pass out of sight.