RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I hate the Ultimate line. All that creative energy could have been poured into the regular universe. And then theres the fact that just about everyone's flaws in there are heightened to the N'th degree. Wasp- codependant, Antman -regularly abusive, Cap -emotionally repressed, Thor - crazy (maybe), Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver... ew. Thats not how I want me heroes. You can be realistic without being unhinged. If thats not true, then I'm not trusting anyone in the police or the Fire Dept. Or any of us who are in the military. The Ultimate line is THE derivative. If it didnt have the 616 to take from, it would be Rob Liefeld's Image.
Don't hold back... tell us how you really feel. ;-)
I didn't get into the ultimates in the original incarnations (though I enjoyed the movies). I'm just saying that this 'leaping on point' might actually get my money. I'm not a fan (read, hated) of the entire Hank/Jan thing, though I want a 'freshly thawed' cap to be more anachonistic than 616 cap (Read Mark Waid's Man out of Time to see the kind of things I'm talking about, or some of the writing in Avengers:Earth's Mightiest Heroes). We don't see Cap as a caveman being freaked out about things, he just accepts them and moves on.
"In my day, we didn't call anything that flew this high an airplane."
"What did you call it?"
"Science Fiction."
Miles Morales interests me as he's got a different hill to climb than Peter Parker. The Ulti-X-men intrigue me because they are Kitty-centric. Iron man I'm not sure of (though I think I still have signed copies of the series somewhere)
Well 616 Cap has been thawed for around a decade or more of in-universe time. It would be weird if he HADN'T caught up yet.
And poor Hank. Guy went crazy and hit her once and noone will never let go. Some mass muredering supervillains get more forgiveness than he does.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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VMM, I actually see where heroes are coming from with regards to Hank.
Sure, Sandman is disreputable, but nobody ever particularly trusted him before. If he's trying to go straight, let's see what we can do for him.
Hank, on the other hand: people looked up to him, figuratively as well as literally. He was not just their friend, he was a founding member of the Avengers. When the team was at its low ebb, he helped keep it together. When he is revealed to have a temper, and feet of clay, and a chemically-induced psychosis, then (1) their faith in their friend is betrayed, and (2) it reflects basely on the entire team.
And they'll never make the mistake of trusting him again.
And poor Hank. Guy went crazy and hit her once and noone will never let go. Some mass muredering supervillains get more forgiveness than he does.
In the meanwhile, everybody conveniently forgets the time that Spider-Man backhanded his pregnant wife.
VMM, I actually see where heroes are coming from with regards to Hank.
Sure, Sandman is disreputable, but nobody ever particularly trusted him before. If he's trying to go straight, let's see what we can do for him.
Hank, on the other hand: people looked up to him, figuratively as well as literally. He was not just their friend, he was a founding member of the Avengers. When the team was at its low ebb, he helped keep it together. When he is revealed to have a temper, and feet of clay, and a chemically-induced psychosis, then (1) their faith in their friend is betrayed, and (2) it reflects basely on the entire team.
And they'll never make the mistake of trusting him again.
Seems like some inconsistency on their part, then. I mean, this is the same team that made up with Tony Stark after he became a fascist and pulled every dirty trick in the book to arrest their friends (not to mention that time that he staged an assassination attempt to get superhumans to register faster). And they're currently palling around with the Red Hulk, who is fresh off of trying to overthrow the United States government.
Civil War aside (It was a stupitidy fest on BOTH sides), Ton7y is a recovering alcoholic, Spidey sold his marriage to the devil (and I bet his soul too), and they brought Wolverine (and later Ares) on the Avengers specifically so they would have someone capable of outright killing enemies when necessary. A stupid decison on it's own, since Cap was in the war and gunned down several enemy soldiers, and Thor was a viking god, you know the guys that codified 'rape, pillage and THEN kill' as a rule. These people aren't saints.
About Spidey soul, I just recently realized but: Mephisto didn't ask for his soul. Why? Because he didn't need to! See, you go to hell because of sin, specially sin you don't repent or regret. Dealing with the devil is probably very high on the list of sins that send straight to hell, and if you don't remember, you can regret much less repent. The thing about 'hearing their souls in agony' is either BS or a bonus, anyway Mephisto got both their souls and eliminated their daughter. I know the writers didn't do it on purpose, but Mephisto won, thoroughly and completely won.
Also, best explanation for the DC reboot I've seen (all the way from the beginnig to 1:25).
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Well 616 Cap has been thawed for around a decade or more of in-universe time. It would be weird if he HADN'T caught up yet.
And poor Hank. Guy went crazy and hit her once and noone will never let go. Some mass muredering supervillains get more forgiveness than he does.
IIRC, there was a Comic Book Legends Revealed that said that the writer wanted a violent push, but the artist misudnerstood, thus the 'punch heard 'round the world.'
It's a shame in a way, I only really became familiar with Hank in West Coast Avengers. And really liked 'Dr Pym the gadget guy.'
Edit: And yeah 616-Steve should be up to speed. But I enjoyed some of the anachronisms in Avengers:EMH, and would love to see some in Avengers/Captain America II. (smoking indoors, or a bit of 1940's style sexism, etc)
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Personally I think Marvel having two seperate universe the regular MU and the Ultimates to me was actually a smart move. If I as a fan hate the MU I have the Ultimates and vice-versa. Where with DC it's like they going to try and merge both the DCU and the parts of the Flashpoint universe into one which imo will be a mistake. They should have have two universe the DCU and the Flashpoint universe for the same reasons above.
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Personally I think Marvel having two seperate universe the regular MU and the Ultimates to me was actually a smart move.
I really do think that the Ultimates universe came around for two reasons;
1) To reconceptualize the characters so that they could be made more 'cinematic' for eventual movie adaptations. Hence we have an Iron Man design that looks more like Ultimate Iron Man, Sam Jackson as Nick Fury instead of David Hasslehoff (shudder), Captain America wearing his strappy Ultimate uniform instead of the 'chainmail' (that was always drawn as scalemail anyway), Hawkeye and Black Widow as founding Avengers, etc.
2) To allow writers who are current fan-favorites, big fans of deconstructing heroes (and never remembering to build them back up afterwards, since their only real talent is petulantly destroying decades-old properties that better writers have created), and hate, hate, hate the idea of 'good-guys' or 'superheroes' to write their beloved dystopian jackbooted thugs and violent jerks and sociopathic freaks, without actually getting their hands on the 'real' Captain America, Hawkeye, etc.
.
And yeah, I think DC would have benefitted from doing the same thing. Instead of turning Wonder Woman into a head-cutting-off hardcore pragmatist (she who came to 'man's world' as an ambassador of peace, to show us a better way), they could have taken the uglier storylines of the last decade or so, and put them into an 'Ultimate DC' line, where Superman is a disaffected emo alien, who is more terrifyingly in his very real sense of alienation than inspiring, and Wonder Woman comes from a sword-happy martial culture and Batman likes to break legs by way of teaching someone a lesson and Dr. Rape (sorry, Dr. Light) likes to sexually assault and / or murder supporting characters and teenaged heroes.
There's been a number of writers in the last decade who seem to virulently loathe the entire concept of the superhero, and have taken every opportunity they've been given to tear down, deconstruct and 'dirty up' every character they've gotten their hands on.
Deconstruction is a valid storytelling tool, when it's used to build someone up, after tearing them down. But these deconstructionists seem to always forget to fix what they've broken, leaving me with the impression that they are just upset that creators decades ago have crafted lasting characters, and all they can do is smash other people's toys in frustration, as they lack the ability to create anything so lasting, so inspiring or so iconic.
Well I'm reading on CBR that Wally and Iris aren't married.
So apparently Marriage seems to be equal to being a parapalygic in the DCnU. :/
Geez Matt... I HOPE you meant "Barry and Iris" aren't married... because... c'mon... Wally was Iris's nephew.
Edit: And yeah 616-Steve should be up to speed. But I enjoyed some of the anachronisms in Avengers:EMH, and would love to see some in Avengers/Captain America II. (smoking indoors, or a bit of 1940's style sexism, etc)
The smoking bit I could see as entertaining. The sexism not so much. I like to think of Captain America as a bit more progressive or at least beyond the general bigotry of his era. I wasn't a big fan of Ultimate Cap being a dick to the French for that very reason.
Sure, a bigoted Cap would probably be more realistic given the situation, but I like the escapism of comics and would rather not see Captain America of all people talking down to women or the like.
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I was recently reading some old, late 60s/early 70s era Captain Americas (In the Essentials reprints) and there's a good deal of sexism in Caps relationship with Sharon Carter, the very capable Shield Agent 13. Not so much condescending, but very overprotective. Constantly backing off from a relationship because he was afraid of her getting targeted and hurt because of him.
He also went through a lot of the man out of time angst. Not so much anachronisms as constantly feeling like there was no place for him.
You just can't keep that up for 40 years worth of comics.
Oh, but they certainly can keep Spidey, single, perpetually late, nearly unemployed and terminally afflicted with survivors guilt for just as long, even longer.
Well, when (As Stan Lee and others at Marvel have said) your entire time-line is always encapsulated in a constantly revolving door of "The last ten years of real time," it's not so much that you're keeping it up for forty years, but rather than you're doing it for the same ten years, over and over and over.
The dates may change, but for the Marvel characters, they're living in a ten year slice of life. Always. Kind of makes me sad for them.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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IDK, it could be pretty funny to see Cap innocently ask a female Avenger to go make him a sandwich, only for her to yell at him for it.
This kind of sexism, not the 'barefoot and pregnant' kind.
Other things I think of.
Holding the door for a woman.
Pulling out the chair
Standing up when a woman enters the room.
Things that aren't demeaning to women, just things a man does to respect the fairer sex.*
*
IDK, it could be pretty funny to see Cap innocently ask a female Avenger to go make him a sandwich, only for her to yell at him for it.This kind of sexism, not the 'barefoot and pregnant' kind.
Other things I think of.
Holding the door for a woman.
Pulling out the chair
Standing up when a woman enters the room.
Things that aren't demeaning to women, just things a man does to respect the fairer sex.*
*** spoiler omitted **
Okay, that I could see Cap doing.
I have often wondered if the deconstructionists just were never left on a project long enough to build the character back up.
a fair question. The musical chairs of who writes for what can do a lot of damage this way.
IDK, it could be pretty funny to see Cap innocently ask a female Avenger to go make him a sandwich, only for her to yell at him for it.This kind of sexism, not the 'barefoot and pregnant' kind.
Other things I think of.
Holding the door for a woman.
Pulling out the chair
Standing up when a woman enters the room.
Things that aren't demeaning to women, just things a man does to respect the fairer sex.*
*** spoiler omitted **
At least according to one source, when it gets done too often, it gets demeaning. I could see a more liberal minded woman yelling at cap that she knows how to open a door, etc.
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I really do think that the Ultimates universe came around for two reasons;1) To reconceptualize the characters so that they could be made more 'cinematic' for eventual movie adaptations. Hence we have an Iron Man design that looks more like Ultimate Iron Man, Sam Jackson as Nick Fury instead of David Hasslehoff (shudder), Captain America wearing his strappy Ultimate uniform instead of the 'chainmail' (that was always drawn as scalemail anyway), Hawkeye and Black Widow as founding Avengers, etc.
2) To allow writers who are current fan-favorites, big fans of deconstructing heroes (and never remembering to build them back up afterwards, since their only real talent is petulantly destroying decades-old properties that better writers have created), and hate, hate, hate the idea of 'good-guys' or 'superheroes' to write their beloved dystopian jackbooted thugs and violent jerks and sociopathic freaks, without actually getting their hands on the 'real' Captain America, Hawkeye, etc.
.
And yeah, I think DC would have benefitted from doing the same thing. Instead of turning Wonder Woman into a head-cutting-off hardcore pragmatist (she who came to 'man's world' as an ambassador of peace, to show us a better way), they could have taken the uglier storylines of the last decade or so, and put them into an 'Ultimate DC' line, where Superman is a disaffected emo alien, who is more terrifyingly in his very real sense of alienation than inspiring, and Wonder Woman comes from a sword-happy martial culture and Batman likes to break legs by way of teaching someone a lesson and Dr. Rape (sorry, Dr. Light) likes to sexually assault and / or murder supporting characters and teenaged heroes.
There's been a number of writers in the last decade who seem to virulently loathe the entire concept of the superhero, and have taken every opportunity they've been given to...
Totally agree and seconded on all your points. If the reboot flops and it might very well they better hope it does not turn away too many fans as it might hurt profits. Then again something tells me that I just cannot see that many fans of DC flock to NMarvel so even if the reboot flops they should be safe. Having two seperate universe imo would have immunized them from anything negative if the reboot is not successful. They would still have the DCU and could drop the newer material from the reboot. As for the WW in the reboot words fail me. Lets take a character and make her the complete opposite of what she was in the DCU. I'm suprised someone gave the go ahead for such a change. Thier os imo a major difference in trying to make a character more grim and gritty as oppsoed to a total character reversal.
The smoking bit I could see as entertaining. The sexism not so much. I like to think of Captain America as a bit more progressive or at least beyond the general bigotry of his era. I wasn't a big fan of Ultimate Cap being a dick to the French for that very reason.
I think that whole "do you think this A stands for France" thing was actually more of a jab at America itself, than Cap. Remember, at the time that book came out, there was a whole lot of France hate going on in the states for France wanting to stay out of the situation in the Middle East. Millar is quite well known for using his comics to exaggerate and make fun of various flaws of society.[/end pseudo-political commentary]
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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The smoking bit I could see as entertaining. The sexism not so much. I like to think of Captain America as a bit more progressive or at least beyond the general bigotry of his era. I wasn't a big fan of Ultimate Cap being a dick to the French for that very reason.I think that whole "do you think this A stands for France" thing was actually more of a jab at America itself, than Cap. Remember, at the time that book came out, there was a whole lot of France hate going on in the states for France wanting to stay out of the situation in the Middle East. Millar is quite well known for using his comics to exaggerate and make fun of various flaws of society.[/end pseudo-political commentary]
Actually I think it was a joke of Millar's that backfired, because people rallied to it as part of our 'never say die' history.
I know of some vets who STILL won't forgive the French for their fightinf with the Germans in Africa and Europe. There's been a level of distancing I've seen in some Europeans, "Those Germans" "Those French" etc.
To me the 'French Hating' fit ultimate Cap, as he'd not been out of the fridge that long. Also did Ulti-Cap work with the French Resistance* like 616 Cap did?
Also to use another real world story. It wasn't until the turn of the century that Leonard Nemoy would go to a Trek Convention in Germany, because of the Holocaust.
*
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At least according to one source, when it gets done too often, it gets demeaning. I could see a more liberal minded woman yelling at cap that she knows how to open a door, etc.IDK, it could be pretty funny to see Cap innocently ask a female Avenger to go make him a sandwich, only for her to yell at him for it.This kind of sexism, not the 'barefoot and pregnant' kind.
Other things I think of.
Holding the door for a woman.
Pulling out the chair
Standing up when a woman enters the room.
Things that aren't demeaning to women, just things a man does to respect the fairer sex.*
*** spoiler omitted **
You would think that they would script it out for a few years and make use of some sort of series bible.
You would think that they would script it out for a few years and make use of some sort of series bible.
That implies a long term planning which is lacking in the industry. Most writers are given 6 month contracts for a book. Maybe a year.
Then again, when editorial starts making long term plans (ie, events) things tend to go poorly. I prefer it when they leave a writer alone on a book to just tell some good stories for a while.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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You would think that they would script it out for a few years and make use of some sort of series bible.That implies a long term planning which is lacking in the industry. Most writers are given 6 month contracts for a book. Maybe a year.
Then again, when editorial starts making long term plans (ie, events) things tend to go poorly. I prefer it when they leave a writer alone on a book to just tell some good stories for a while.
That's why I love PAD's run on the Hulk, and on X-factor. It only really gets bad* when editors meddle. Good writers can reward readers with entertainment while they make the big storyline pay off** (aside: His Star Trek novels often tie TNG deeply to the rest of the universe. Vendetta is a wonderful example of fixing a gaping hole in a TOS Episode with a Next Gen Answer.***
*
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***
*** spoiler omitted **
Actually, Peter David was on board with killing Betty. His editor suggested the idea since PAD had based the Bruce Banner/Betty relationship on his own marriage, which had just ended in divorce. His response was basically, "Fine, she's toast."
The problem was that editorial then wanted the Hulk to be a mute smashing machine to tie into the upcoming movie (said movie didn't happen until 2003, and when it did the film borrowed a lot of the psychological elements PAD had explored in his run). This derailed a massive plot PAD had spent years building up, and he wound up leaving the book as a result.
In Peter David's 12-year run on the Hulk, he only missed two issues before leaving. One was when a close friend died, and the other was due to more editorial interference - Betty was pregnant and Marvel wanted her to have a miscarriage because they didn't think readers would sympathize with her if she became a mother. PAD wound up sort-of going into what he wanted to do with the kid in his novel What Savage Beast.
(Meanwhile, years after the whole debacle, the Hulk is running around with three, possible four children.)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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*** spoiler omitted **
Actually, Peter David was on board with killing Betty. His editor suggested the idea since PAD had based the Bruce Banner/Betty relationship on his own marriage, which had just ended in divorce. His response was basically, "Fine, she's toast."
The problem was that editorial then wanted the Hulk to be a mute smashing machine to tie into the upcoming movie (said movie didn't happen until 2003, and when it did the film borrowed a lot of the psychological elements PAD had explored in his run). This derailed a massive plot PAD had spent years building up, and he wound up leaving the book as a result.
Thank you for the correction. :-)
I've read What Savage Beast. It was very enjoyable, and would have made a better story.
And poor Hank. Guy went crazy and hit her once and noone will never let go. Some mass muredering supervillains get more forgiveness than he does.In the meanwhile, everybody conveniently forgets the time that Spider-Man backhanded his pregnant wife.
Let's not forget Emma Frost's first appearance & the whole murdering several underlings for failure thing.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Let's not forget Emma Frost's first appearance & the whole murdering several underlings for failure thing.And poor Hank. Guy went crazy and hit her once and noone will never let go. Some mass muredering supervillains get more forgiveness than he does.In the meanwhile, everybody conveniently forgets the time that Spider-Man backhanded his pregnant wife.
Hopefully the writers will remember that Kitty's not forgotten that either.
And poor Hank. Guy went crazy and hit her once and noone will never let go. Some mass muredering supervillains get more forgiveness than he does.In the meanwhile, everybody conveniently forgets the time that Spider-Man backhanded his pregnant wife.
Spider-Man backhanded his wife? What are you talking about? Joey Q said he was never married, remember? Instead he was this 30+ loser manchild downloading porn in Aunt May's basement.
At least according to one source, when it gets done too often, it gets demeaning. I could see a more liberal minded woman yelling at cap that she knows how to open a door, etc.IDK, it could be pretty funny to see Cap innocently ask a female Avenger to go make him a sandwich, only for her to yell at him for it.This kind of sexism, not the 'barefoot and pregnant' kind.
Other things I think of.
Holding the door for a woman.
Pulling out the chair
Standing up when a woman enters the room.
Things that aren't demeaning to women, just things a man does to respect the fairer sex.*
*** spoiler omitted **
Sorry for contributing to the OT conversation, but my thing as a woman is--
-- If it's a matter of clearly being helpful and/or convenient (EVERYBODY where I live holds doors open for each other regardless of gender because that's a nice thing you do that makes things easier for each other), that's one thing. In my personal experience, I've never objected to that, nor ever seen a woman object to that kind of common courtesy that anyone would afford to anyone else. That's about basic civility, not about gender.
However, if it's a matter of putting a woman ON THE SPOT--you don't open the door for anyone else, JUST her, even when it may actually cause a traffic jam at the door rather than actually be helpful--it draws attention to her, and that can be embarrassing and frustrating. And I've seen that kind of thing happen, where someone fumbled and made a mess of things to try and "help" a woman who was clearly in a better position to just get the damn door or chair or whatever on her own.
It's also a matter of how you express yourself and your concern for the woman when you offer your help. One of my biggest pet peeves is carrying heavy things.
I've been in a couple different situations:
1. I was carrying an obviously heavy box, and straining to hold onto it. A male friend approached me and said, "You appear to be having trouble with that, may I help you?" I accepted his assistance with delight, as it was a clearly a kind offer based on an obvious show of a need of assistance. He also ASKED ME in a polite manner, letting me make the decision over MY situation, which to me is the MOST respectful thing you can do.
2. I was carrying a box where I obviously could handle it on my own, breezing down the hallway. A complete stranger nearly blocked myself and said, "That's too heavy for you, let me take that," and proceeded to try to GRAB the box out of my hands. This was offensive for two reasons:
a) He didn't ASK me anything. He made a judgement about me--I am not strong enough to carry that box--which was obviously incorrect based on the physical evidence before him. (I was in fact strong enough to hurl it at his face, which took some level of restraint to keep myself from doing.) I was not treated like an individual, I was treated like a blob with boobs and a weakling one at that.
b) He INVADED MY PERSONAL SPACE. He approached me, without my permission, as a stranger, to take an object which was mine out of my possession. That if that man did that to another man, I am sure the man carrying the box would strongly object to that action. I object for exactly the same reasons.
Come to think of it, invasion of personal space is probably why some women object to "chivalrous" behaviors done poorly (emphasis on DONE POORLY). If a guy gets up to get close to her to open a door or move a chair or take a box, etc., and she doesn't know him or trust him, it's quite possible that the instinctual reaction to that is that it's a threat to our safety (or at best, a cheesy attempt to make a pass), not an act of kindness or courtesy. I would wager these instincts go back to primitive days when life was more brutal--but then in some ways, life is as brutal now.
I know someone is going to take offense to what I've written and somehow take personally the above which is not meant to be a personal attack on anyone. I'm just saying this is why I MIGHT in certain circumstances object to a certain kind of behavior by men in particular (but certainly possibly women too in the right/wrong situation) and to offer it as food for thought. I am sure Matthew Morris for example has no ill intent in his behavior.
What I am saying, in summary, is THINK about how you present yourself before you go about socially programmed behavior rather than do it blindly. If you are a truly respectful person acting out of genuine civility, chances are, most of the time people will know that. If your intentions are poor or done out of bad judgment (maybe a judgment you're not aware of making), that will also be picked up on and responded to accordingly. If you truly respect the person before you, man or woman, you will act as your instincts tell you that individual will appreciate, not simply apply an outdated social routine to all people that you paint with a broad brush. And all this of course goes to women too--how they treat men and each other.
Bottom line is, think about how the individual before you feels, not just what you think you're "supposed to do" based on external factors that may not be relevant in the situation at hand.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I know someone is going to take offense to what I've written and somehow take personally the above which is not meant to be a personal attack on anyone. I'm just saying this is why I MIGHT in certain circumstances object to a certain kind of behavior by men in particular (but certainly possibly women too in the right/wrong situation) and to offer it as food for thought. I am sure Matthew Morris for example has no ill intent in his behavior.
Heh, in the world we live in, this doesn't arise to the 'things to take offense at' level. :-)
Keep in mind I am a sexist pig* by my own admission. But part of of being a '21st century kind of guy**' is accepting that my viewpoint isn't the only one (no matter how correct I may be). ;-) I'm saying there should be some culture shock. Technology shouldn't be as intimidating (a cell phone = portable radio, cars are cars even with more bells and whistles, etc. Though JARVIS should freak him out since Movie Cap never worked with Jim Hammond.) 1940's attitudes on racial divides would be too sore a subject, but when Natasha walks into the room for an Avengers briefing and Steve sees the iPad (which again, iPad = digital pen and paper) and assumes she is taking coffee orders that's something that could be written and played both for laughs and to show he has 'catching up to do'.
Back on the topic. It is funny we're talking about Steve Rogers (potential) sexism, when we have DC apparently deciding that marriage is bad. (Barry not Married, Wally not married, Lois and Clark not married, Heck if we see reboot Donna in some form, I'll bet the marriage to Terry Long is gone.) I also like how DC's explaination of the huge gaping holes they're leaving is 'it happened but not like you remember'. Kind of like Spiderman.
Maybe that's why DC is so 90's-like. Someone sold Warner Brothers to Mephisto. :-)
*
The two key elements are 1) to recognize that both roles are equally important, and 2) I'm not an emperor (yet). If I can provide a house and for my family myself, and the hypothetical Mrs. Morris wants to work, I can't stop her. I can accept it, or leave. (and if we have kids I can't do the later). All I can do is live up to my expectations of what a Man should do.
Oh, and only an idiot would assume that he comes home, flops down and does nothing for 12 hours before he has to get up and go to work.
**
Back on the topic. It is funny we're talking about Steve Rogers (potential) sexism, when we have DC apparently deciding that marriage is bad. (Barry not Married, Wally not married, Lois and Clark not married, Heck if we see reboot Donna in some form, I'll bet the marriage to Terry Long is gone.) I also like how DC's explaination of the huge gaping holes they're leaving is 'it happened but not like you remember'. Kind of like Spiderman.
Maybe that's why DC is so 90's-like. Someone sold Warner Brothers to Mephisto. :-)
Neither Barry nor Wally is married anymore? Gah... Just, whatever. I don't have enough rage in me.
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Neither Barry nor Wally is married anymore? Gah... Just, whatever. I don't have enough rage in me.Back on the topic. It is funny we're talking about Steve Rogers (potential) sexism, when we have DC apparently deciding that marriage is bad. (Barry not Married, Wally not married, Lois and Clark not married, Heck if we see reboot Donna in some form, I'll bet the marriage to Terry Long is gone.) I also like how DC's explaination of the huge gaping holes they're leaving is 'it happened but not like you remember'. Kind of like Spiderman.
Maybe that's why DC is so 90's-like. Someone sold Warner Brothers to Mephisto. :-)
Well, Barry's not. We don't actually know Wally even exists yet so his marriage is definitely Schrodingered.
Also Earth 2 is coming back, with the JSA on it. This makes me happy. Given that the rest of the reboot brings on frothing nerd rage, it's not much, but it does.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Neither Barry nor Wally is married anymore? Gah... Just, whatever. I don't have enough rage in me.Back on the topic. It is funny we're talking about Steve Rogers (potential) sexism, when we have DC apparently deciding that marriage is bad. (Barry not Married, Wally not married, Lois and Clark not married, Heck if we see reboot Donna in some form, I'll bet the marriage to Terry Long is gone.) I also like how DC's explaination of the huge gaping holes they're leaving is 'it happened but not like you remember'. Kind of like Spiderman.
Maybe that's why DC is so 90's-like. Someone sold Warner Brothers to Mephisto. :-)
I agree. I feel disappointment, not rage.
I mean, I love Gail's work on Secret Six, and BoP. I don't have any interest in Firestorm, and won't buy Batgirl (as much as I would enjoy Barbara under her pen, I won't support DC over losing Stephanie/Tim/Connor/Bart/Rose/et al.*)
Essentially, the DCnU isn't the world I grew up with, and I'd rather not support it at all, not cheer pale reflections with swiss cheesed continuity.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Well, Barry's not. We don't actually know Wally even exists yet so his marriage is definitely Schrodingered.
Also Earth 2 is coming back, with the JSA on it. This makes me happy. Given that the rest of the reboot brings on frothing nerd rage, it's not much, but it does.
Clear up until they 'reimage' the JSA into unrecognizability :P
I read the link on Hawkman. So the reincarnation thing is gone, but Blackest Night/Brightest Day still happened...
*sigh&
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Well, Barry's not. We don't actually know Wally even exists yet so his marriage is definitely Schrodingered.
Also Earth 2 is coming back, with the JSA on it. This makes me happy. Given that the rest of the reboot brings on frothing nerd rage, it's not much, but it does.
Clear up until they 'reimage' the JSA into unrecognizability :P
I read the link on Hawkman. So the reincarnation thing is gone, but Blackest Night/Brightest Day still happened...
*sigh&
I was trying to be optimistic. Do you know how hard that is?! Do you?!!
But, they have a plan and a story bible and no one's going to get it wrong or go off message this time. Honest injun. I mean, it worked so well after Crisis. What could possibly go wrong?
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I would almost like to see a separate imprint using the DC characters, yet split to different worlds based on comic book history and maybe even story elements. It would have nothing to do with current continuity and would last a predetermined time say 10 years, with most if not all story elements worked out before hand.
If only.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I would almost like to see a separate imprint using the DC characters, yet split to different worlds based on comic book history and maybe even story elements. It would have nothing to do with current continuity and would last a predetermined time say 10 years, with most if not all story elements worked out before hand.
If only.
I was thinking this morning how it is a shame IP has been extended ad nausem.
Look at John Carter of Mars. I was reading the Dynamite books, they seemed loyal to the story, but the art (espeically Dejah Thoris) was ok to horrid. I eventually dropped the book.
Now I'll take a look at the Disney/Marvel book when it comes out. Competition is good. Sure you'd have things like Batman XXX (oh, wait...) but DC could still argue they write the 'one true Batman' and let a dozen Batmen bloom and let the market sort 'em out.
Could you imagine trying to do an LXG if none of those characters were public domain?
I'm still trying to figure out how Damien is the age he is, with Bruce being the age he is, post-reboot.
I knew Talia liked 'em young, but... maaaaaaaaaaaan.
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Now I'll take a look at the Disney/Marvel book when it comes out. Competition is good. Sure you'd have things like Batman XXX (oh, wait...) but DC could still argue they write the 'one true Batman' and let a dozen Batmen bloom and let the market sort 'em out.
You have seen the size of the Batman line in NewU, right? i think Dc is doing that without competition. Rather like Marvel does with Wolverine or Spider-Man.
I know someone is going to take offense to what I've written and somehow take personally the above which is not meant to be a personal attack on anyone. I'm just saying this is why I MIGHT in certain circumstances object to a certain kind of behavior by men in particular (but certainly possibly women too in the right/wrong situation) and to offer it as food for thought. I am sure Matthew Morris for example has no ill intent in his behavior.Heh, in the world we live in, this doesn't arise to the 'things to take offense at' level. :-)
I am glad you see it that way. :)
Back on the topic. It is funny we're talking about Steve Rogers (potential) sexism, when we have DC apparently deciding that marriage is bad. (Barry not Married, Wally not married, Lois and Clark not married, Heck if we see reboot Donna in some form, I'll bet the marriage to Terry Long is gone.) I also like how DC's explaination of the huge gaping holes they're leaving is 'it happened but not like you remember'. Kind of like Spiderman.
It is a truly odd creative turn, and I am wondering what they're going for. What was so negative about those stories?
Maybe that's why DC is so 90's-like. Someone sold Warner Brothers to Mephisto. :-)
I'd believe it!
Neither Barry nor Wally is married anymore? Gah... Just, whatever. I don't have enough rage in me.Back on the topic. It is funny we're talking about Steve Rogers (potential) sexism, when we have DC apparently deciding that marriage is bad. (Barry not Married, Wally not married, Lois and Clark not married, Heck if we see reboot Donna in some form, I'll bet the marriage to Terry Long is gone.) I also like how DC's explaination of the huge gaping holes they're leaving is 'it happened but not like you remember'. Kind of like Spiderman.
Maybe that's why DC is so 90's-like. Someone sold Warner Brothers to Mephisto. :-)
Well, Barry's not. We don't actually know Wally even exists yet so his marriage is definitely Schrodingered.
Also Earth 2 is coming back, with the JSA on it. This makes me happy. Given that the rest of the reboot brings on frothing nerd rage, it's not much, but it does.
So, there won't be a JSA on New Earth or have ever existed in its continuity just like the Pre-Crisis days?
Meh, Im going to give it a shot. Im not happy with some of the changes but it's a new jumping on point for me.
The Titans thing doesnt bother me all that much (and im a fan of the titans), I can deal with some titans being in the Outlaws book. The titans through the years have always started out strong and then nose-dived with roster changes. I like members like Robin, Starfire, Wonder Girl, Arsenal, Wally, Cyborg, and Raven. I hate the Titans version of Superboy, I dont care for the newer titans like M'gann and Ravager. Kid Devil is plain stupid, etc.
While I'm not a Jason Todd fan either, I can deal with his persona leading the Outlaws. Arsenal and Starfire will hold me to the book and I'm sure Nightwing will drop in from time to time.
Best Case Scenario for the new DC reboot- a new jumping on point (some folks will jump off). Maybe it'll be a "Copper Age" for comics.
Worst Case Scenario for the new DC reboot- its the new Image Comics launch all over again, pretty pictures, crappy writing, etc. in which case I drop al titles at the drop of a dime.
Btw, A new JSA book will be awesome.
I was trying to be optimistic. Do you know how hard that is?! Do you?!!
We do. Oh sweet God, we do.
I mean, I love Gail's work on Secret Six, and BoP. I don't have any interest in Firestorm, and won't buy Batgirl (as much as I would enjoy Barbara under her pen, I won't support DC over losing Stephanie/Tim/Connor/Bart/Rose/et al.*)
*[spoiler omitted]
That's what I saw in my RSS feed. It made me giggle. Spoiler omitted indeed.