| 8 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. |
My gut feeling is that the answer should be no, but I've been looking through the core rulebook and APG, and I can't find a rule to this effect. Conversely, insofar as you have a "caster level" for a spell-like ability, and some feats only list a "caster level" as a prerequisite, it seems that the answer should be 'yes', oddly enough.
Would anyone be able to direct me to a ruling one way or the other?
Do you have a specific example? I ask because many times a general answer will not fit all cases.
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Well, like an axiomite taking craft wondrous arms and armour, or a pit fiend learning arcane shield.
Unless it specifically says they cast as a <caster> of level <blah>, I'd say no.
Dragons cast as if sorcerers, I'd say they fully qualify for feats based on their caster level.
An archon has spell like abilities that treat their caster level as their HD. That is not the same as actually casting as a spell caster.
Now, having said that, that's my RAW interpretation. Would I allow it in a game I was running? All depends, on the race/spell-like ability/feat, etc.
For example, a Djinni I'd allow to buy any caster level required feat they want. They can cast wish already, which can simulate spells, so no reason they wouldn't qualify for all those nifty abilities. And even if they didn't, they could just wish themselves qualified. :)
Actually by the RAW it seems to work*, but the problem is that you need spells to make the items. Spell-like abilities are not spells.
*I don't know if that is RAI.
edit:I am sure it is not RAI. I guess it is time to FAQ it though.
Unless it specifically says they cast as a <caster> of level <blah>, I'd say no.
Dragons cast as if sorcerers, I'd say they fully qualify for feats based on their caster level.
An archon has spell like abilities that treat their caster level as their HD. That is not the same as actually casting as a spell caster.
Now, having said that, that's my RAW interpretation. Would I allow it in a game I was running? All depends, on the race/spell-like ability/feat, etc.
For example, a Djinni I'd allow to buy any caster level required feat they want. They can cast wish already, which can simulate spells, so no reason they wouldn't qualify for all those nifty abilities. And even if they didn't, they could just wish themselves qualified. :)
My RAW interpretation was (albeit reluctantly) that they could qualify for any feat requiring a caster level (since it is the "caster level" that is the requisite), but could not qualify for feats requiring either specifically arcane or divine casting.
Actually by the RAW it seems to work*, but the problem is that you need spells to make the items. Spell-like abilities are not spells.
*I don't know if that is RAI.
edit:I am sure it is not RAI. I guess it is time to FAQ it though.
I think Wraithstrike gets where I'm coming from. And it does kinda work since you can use scrolls and UMD to supply the spells, or just not use the spell and cop a +5 to the spellcraft check.
Please do FAQ the opening post if you agree that this is something that needs a proper ruling. =)
Also wondering if this sheds any light on the matter: under the spell description for arcane sight, it states that spell-like abilities register as arcane spell in nature.
Also wondering if this sheds any light on the matter: under the spell description for arcane sight, it states that spell-like abilities register as arcane spell in nature.
That is a spell specific rule, not a general rule.
I'm inclined to say no, they do not have caster levels with regards to feats. The only reference to caster levels is directly connected to the spell-like ability and that is all. Having a spell-like ability does not make you a caster. Having class levels in the appropriate class makes you a caster and the progression through those levels is what gives you those feats. That's my interpretation.
I'd say it's RAW and RAI.
If you have a "Caster Level" anything that uses CL as a prerequisite works unless specifically defined otherwise!
Eg: Must be a Divine caster of CL xx for this to work.
I don't think it needs a clarification.
Cue debate ;)
I reckon it could still be read either way at this point.
Insofar as the requisite is "caster level", with no further clarification, a literal reading still seems to favor the interpretation that you just need some form of caster level, even if the creature has no actual class levels in a spellcasting class.
RAI is a harder call, since the master craftsman feat might indicate an intention to make crafting easier rather than exclusive for spellcasters. Why is no one FAQing this?
Why is no one FAQing this?
To early in the morning, I guess.
Why is no one FAQing this?To early in the morning, I guess.
I recall seeing one of the developers mentioning that taking Minor/Major Magic as a rogue does not qualify as a giving you a caster level or qualify you for casting spells spontaneously
I can't imagine any other SLA not following those rules, but maybe it's just early.
The thing I've seen on this was that spell-like abilities are not Arcane or Divine. By that reasoning, they'd be fine for Craft Arms/Armor but not for Arcane Shield, Arcane Blast, or Arcane Strike.
Good point, did not notice the arcane caster requirement for arcane shield...guess that's something my vrock baddie is not getting for sure.
Still leaves the matter of the axiomite item crafter though...
I'd say it's RAW and RAI.
If you have a "Caster Level" anything that uses CL as a prerequisite works unless specifically defined otherwise!
Eg: Must be a Divine caster of CL xx for this to work.
I don't think it needs a clarification.
Cue debate ;)
So a drow fighter can craft items without taking the Master Craftsman feat?
Drows have dancing lights, faerie fire and darkness 1/day using total character level as caster level. So, a 9th level drow fighter can take Craft Rod?
That doesn't sound right. . .
The thing I've seen on this was that spell-like abilities are not Arcane or Divine. By that reasoning, they'd be fine for Craft Arms/Armor but not for Arcane Shield, Arcane Blast, or Arcane Strike.
So because a person can cast, say, Darkness once per day, they suddenly know how to put magic into items? Maybe if they only put Darkness into items, but...that still seems wrong.
So because a person can cast, say, Darkness once per day, they suddenly know how to put magic into items? Maybe if they only put Darkness into items, but...that still seems wrong.The thing I've seen on this was that spell-like abilities are not Arcane or Divine. By that reasoning, they'd be fine for Craft Arms/Armor but not for Arcane Shield, Arcane Blast, or Arcane Strike.
They do still need to learn the feat to actually enchant items. And between this and the master crafter feat, this still seems to make more sense. "I'm a fighter who knows *nothing* about magic, but hey, I spent a feat so now I can enchant items".
They do still need to learn the feat to actually enchant items. And between this and the master crafter feat, this still seems to make more sense. "I'm a fighter who knows *nothing* about magic, but hey, I spent a feat so now I can enchant items".So because a person can cast, say, Darkness once per day, they suddenly know how to put magic into items? Maybe if they only put Darkness into items, but...that still seems wrong.The thing I've seen on this was that spell-like abilities are not Arcane or Divine. By that reasoning, they'd be fine for Craft Arms/Armor but not for Arcane Shield, Arcane Blast, or Arcane Strike.
@ fiddlersgreen. Exactly.
D20PFSRD
Craft Wondrous Item Caster Level 3rd if you have a "Caster Level" lower than 3rd you can't craft a Wondrous item.
However taking your "Darkness 1/day" example; Darkness is a 2nd level spell;
Level bard 2 CL4, cleric CL3, oracle 2 CL4, inquisitor 2 CL4, sorcerer CL4, wizard 2 CL3.
The Caster level between each class is a difference of 1 (CL3 / CL4) as long as they take the feat and meet the requirements no problem.
However you could house rule / impose the limitation of the "known ability" only!
I personally would allow collaborative creation of extra items so the Spell Like Ability user creating the item can utilise Allies abilities to create other items too.
You do not have a Caster Level unless something explicitly says you do. A SLA does not give YOU a caster level though it itself may need a caster level assigned to it, which it then usually proceeds to define the method for calculating.
Tangentially, having an SLA that counts as X spell does (or should if it inexplicably doesn't) qualify you for feats or anything that you need X spell to qualify for.
You do not have a Caster Level unless something explicitly says you do. A SLA does not give YOU a caster level though it itself may need a caster level assigned to it, which it then usually proceeds to define the method for calculating.
Tangentially, having an SLA that counts as X spell does (or should if it inexplicably doesn't) qualify you for feats or anything that you need X spell to qualify for.
However a SLA does have a Caster Level assigned to it for purposes of determining the effects of the spell in regards to duration / area of effect / damage dice
9 different SLA's but no actual Caster level because it's not a "typical Caster" as defined in the Core classes.
Heck if we want to get semantically silly, readying an action to "Disrupt the Barbed Devil if it starts to cast a Spell, wouldn't work as it's not Casting in a traditional sense, it's a Spell like ability but it's not a spell!! ;) It doesn't have a Caster Level because it's not a Caster!
Heck if we want to get semantically silly, readying an action to "Disrupt the Barbed Devil if it starts to cast a Spell, wouldn't work as it's not Casting in a traditional sense, it's a Spell like ability but it's not a spell!! ;) It doesn't have a Caster Level because it's not a Caster!
Yes, the fact you aren't casting a spell is why you can't disrupt SLAs. I fail to see how that is comedic .
Yes, the fact you aren't casting a spell is why you can't disrupt SLAs. I fail to see how that is comedic .
Heck if we want to get semantically silly, readying an action to "Disrupt the Barbed Devil if it starts to cast a Spell, wouldn't work as it's not Casting in a traditional sense, it's a Spell like ability but it's not a spell!! ;) It doesn't have a Caster Level because it's not a Caster!
That's odd, Spell like abilities have a cast time. Why can't they be disrupted. . .?
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.
But having a spell-like ability doesn't make you a caster.
That's odd, Spell like abilities have a cast time. Why can't they be disrupted. . .?
Because they are not spells, they are abilities which have spell-like effects. Among other things, they are specifically excluded from AoOs.
Yes, the fact you aren't casting a spell is why you can't disrupt SLAs. I fail to see how that is comedic .
Heck if we want to get semantically silly, readying an action to "Disrupt the Barbed Devil if it starts to cast a Spell, wouldn't work as it's not Casting in a traditional sense, it's a Spell like ability but it's not a spell!! ;) It doesn't have a Caster Level because it's not a Caster!That's odd, Spell like abilities have a cast time. Why can't they be disrupted. . .?
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.But having a spell-like ability doesn't make you a caster.
I guess it depends how it is being disrupted.
That's odd, Spell like abilities have a cast time. Why can't they be disrupted. . .?Because they are not spells, they are abilities which have spell-like effects. Among other things, they are specifically excluded from AoOs.
Not true. See Glossary -> Table: Special Ability Types
Spell-Like Ability -> Attack of Opportunity? -> Yes
That's odd, Spell like abilities have a cast time. Why can't they be disrupted. . .?Because they are not spells, they are abilities which have spell-like effects. Among other things, they are specifically excluded from AoOs.Not true. See Glossary -> Table: Special Ability Types
Spell-Like Ability -> Attack of Opportunity? -> Yes
Which doesn't really have anything to do with them being disruptable or not anyway.
That's odd, Spell like abilities have a cast time. Why can't they be disrupted. . .?Because they are not spells, they are abilities which have spell-like effects. Among other things, they are specifically excluded from AoOs.
I beg to differ!
Normal: The use of a spell-like ability normally requires a standard action (at the very least) and provokes an attack of opportunity.
Which doesn't really have anything to do with them being disruptable or not anyway.That's odd, Spell like abilities have a cast time. Why can't they be disrupted. . .?Because they are not spells, they are abilities which have spell-like effects. Among other things, they are specifically excluded from AoOs.Not true. See Glossary -> Table: Special Ability Types
Spell-Like Ability -> Attack of Opportunity? -> Yes
But they can be disrupted as a spell, as long as you follow RAW and RAI.
However it's the Caster Level conundrum that's in doubt.
CL12th = Caster Level 12 which meets the requirements for anything that requires a Caster level IMO!
But they can be disrupted as a spell, as long as you follow RAW and RAI.
How is punching some one going to break their SLA?
CL12th = Caster Level 12 which meets the requirements for anything that requires a Caster level IMO!
No, it doesn't. YOU do not have a caster level. The SPELL has a caster level derived from conditions specified by the spell.
But they can be disrupted as a spell, as long as you follow RAW and RAI.How is punching some one going to break their SLA?
CL12th = Caster Level 12 which meets the requirements for anything that requires a Caster level IMO!No, it doesn't. YOU do not have a caster level. The SPELL has a caster level derived from conditions specified by the spell.
But CL does mean Caster Level, so extrapolating the requirements of the feat you meet it. Just because YOU don't have the caster level doesn't exclude the requirement factor.
The creature uses a SLA at the specified Caster Level.
And around we go! ;)
But CL does mean Caster Level, so extrapolating the requirements of the feat you meet it. Just because YOU don't have the caster level doesn't exclude the requirement factor.
But they can be disrupted as a spell, as long as you follow RAW and RAI.How is punching some one going to break their SLA?
CL12th = Caster Level 12 which meets the requirements for anything that requires a Caster level IMO!No, it doesn't. YOU do not have a caster level. The SPELL has a caster level derived from conditions specified by the spell.
Yes, which is exactly the reason you don't meet the feat requirement. You don't have a caster level thus you don't meet the requirement of a caster level for any feat.
This is in no way confusing, but evidently needs to be clarified.
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But they can be disrupted as a spell, as long as you follow RAW and RAI.How is punching some one going to break their SLA?
CL12th = Caster Level 12 which meets the requirements for anything that requires a Caster level IMO!No, it doesn't. YOU do not have a caster level. The SPELL has a caster level derived from conditions specified by the spell.But CL does mean Caster Level, so extrapolating the requirements of the feat you meet it. Just because YOU don't have the caster level doesn't exclude the requirement factor.
The creature uses a SLA at the specified Caster Level.
And around we go! ;)
There is some misinformation floating around. Getting the facts straight to then make it easier to argue about the other stuff.... :)
- SLAs provoke AoO, at least for those that aren't constant.
- SLAs can be disrupted by failing a concentration check, whether due to attack, violent motion, etc.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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But they can be disrupted as a spell, as long as you follow RAW and RAI.How is punching some one going to break their SLA?
*Blam!*
"I'm sorry, did I break your concentration?"
More seriously it does say except for components it "functions just like a spell."
A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates
it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability’s use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.
It goes on to call out that they can't counterspell or be counterspelled. Nothing says they're not disruptable.
Edit: Beaten to the punch.
But CL does mean Caster Level, so extrapolating the requirements of the feat you meet it. Just because YOU don't have the caster level doesn't exclude the requirement factor.
But they can be disrupted as a spell, as long as you follow RAW and RAI.How is punching some one going to break their SLA?
CL12th = Caster Level 12 which meets the requirements for anything that requires a Caster level IMO!No, it doesn't. YOU do not have a caster level. The SPELL has a caster level derived from conditions specified by the spell.Yes, which is exactly the reason you don't meet the feat requirement. You don't have a caster level thus you don't meet the requirement of a caster level for any feat.
This is in no way confusing, but evidently needs to be clarified.
As clarified by Mr Morris above, They Can be disrupted but not Counterspelled or used to Counterspell.
@Cartigan Around your game table, you are the arbiter of the rules and if you interpret the wording of the requirements one way then as a player in Your game I would respect your decision.
However around my table I would be the final arbiter of the rules and You would have to accept My decision.
Any disagreement would be settled outside gaming time either before the next session or after the current session. With reasoned arguments and counter points.
After all, we play for fun not for the rules conflicts!
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'... For creatures with spell-like abilities, a designated caster level defines how difficult it is to dispel their spell-like effects and to define any level-dependent variables (such as range and duration) the abilities might have...' (Bestiary page 304)
So that's what the designated caster level for a SLA does... no more, no less. It certainly doesn't qualify you for Feats requiring an actual (i.e. not designated to a specific SLA just to determine that SLA's effects) caster level as a prerequisite.
IMHO, natch...
Also, keep in mind the monster with 'natural' SLAs and class levels in a casting class as well. Can, for example, a Drow Fighter 19/Wizard 1 cast all his spells at caster level 20, just 'cos he has a handful of SLAs which he can use with a designated caster level of 20? I doubt it... ;)
As clarified by Mr Morris above, They Can be disrupted but not Counterspelled or used to Counterspell.
Depends on where you look (:
Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.
Spell-like abilities can be dispelled and counterspelled as normal.
Honestly it makes no sense to have undisruptable spell-like abilities. If you cast a spell-like ability of summon monster V, you need to cast it for one round. It's a bit silly to be invincible to disruption the entire time you're doing that. . .
Why is no one FAQing this?To early in the morning, I guess.I recall seeing one of the developers mentioning that taking Minor/Major Magic as a rogue does not qualify as a giving you a caster level or qualify you for casting spells spontaneously
I can't imagine any other SLA not following those rules, but maybe it's just early.
That is party why I think that too, but the feat in that other thread had a specific requirement of arcane caster levels as opposed to caster levels.
That's odd, Spell like abilities have a cast time. Why can't they be disrupted. . .?Because they are not spells, they are abilities which have spell-like effects. Among other things, they are specifically excluded from AoOs.
I look at it as creatures with drow that have SLA's have caster level with relevance to their SLA's only, but are not casters in the sense that they can cast spells like wizards or druids which is what is needed for qualification of caster feats.
SLA's have always been subject to being disrupted. As for them being counter-spelled it was not possible in 3.5. In order to counterspell you have to have something to observe such as a somatic or verbal component so you can do a spellcraft check. SLA's are completely mental abilities so you have no way of counteringspelling them.
I have been aware of the contradiction in the book for a while. There is a thread where it has been FAQ'd several times, but no errata has been officially made yet.
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A spell-like ability usually has a limit on how often it can be used. A constant spell-like ability or one that can be used at will has no use limit. Reactivating a constant spell-like ability is a swift action. Using all other spell-like abilities is a standard action unless noted otherwise, and doing so provokes attacks of opportunity. It is possible to make a concentration check to use a spell-like ability defensively and avoid provoking an attack of opportunity, just as when casting a spell. A spell-like ability can be disrupted just as a spell can be. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.
For creatures with spell-like abilities, a designated caster level defines how difficult it is to dispel their spell-like effects and to define any level-dependent variables (such as range and duration) the abilities might have. The creature's caster level never affects which spell-like abilities the creature has; sometimes the given caster level is lower than the level a spellcasting character would need to cast the spell of the same name. If no caster level is specified, the caster level is equal to the creature's Hit Dice. The saving throw (if any) against a spell-like ability is 10 + the level of the spell the ability resembles or duplicates + the creature's Charisma modifier.
Some spell-like abilities duplicate spells that work differently when cast by characters of different classes. A monster's spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order.
A creature can have multiple caster levels. It can have multiple spellcasting classes, each with it’s own caster level. It can have multiple spell-like abilities, each with it’s own caster level. It can have feats or other rules resources that augment the caster level of spells or spell-like abilities for some of the spells or spell-like abilities only. For example, a paladin has the spell-like ability detect evil; the caster level for this ability is his HD (I’ve got a twitch in the back of my mind that the CL for an SLA derived from a class is his class level, but can’t find it right now..reference appreciated). That paladin may also be able to cast spells; the caster level for spells is his class level –3. So, a 5th level paladin has a CL of 5 for detect evil and a CL of 2 for casting spells from the paladin list.
What seems to be at question is whether 1) the creature has a CL or 2) whether he merely can cast an SLA, which itself has an effective caster level…but which the creature doesn’t have. The description of SLA from the Universal Monster Rules says, “…the creature’s caster level…” That is in a possessive form; the creature has a caster level.
Caster Level, regardless of what whether associated with a spellcasting class or an SLA, is the ability to harness magical energy at a certain level of power. SLAs are “magical and work just like spells…” (except for how they aren’t. Magic Item Creation feats or other feats that require the ability to harness magical energy of that power. The creating of the magic item…that knowledge or ability…is dependent on the feat, not CL, and isn’t restricted by the limited scope of that CL applying only to an SLA. Other feats or resources with prerequisites may have different requirements. An SLA doesn’t have a spell level, even if it emulates a spell that does or has a save DC based upon the spell level of a spell it does. So, a prerequisite that requires the ability to cast a spell of a given level is not met by an SLA.
For those wanting to be relatively consistent with D&D 3.5, see Complete Arcane p.72 and/or multiple entries in the D&D 3.5 final FAQ on the distinction between these matters.
** spoiler omitted **
A creature can have...
Actually they do have spell levels. They just don't count as actual spell for purposes of qualifying for feats and such.
Their spell level is what determines the DC, among other things.
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** spoiler omitted **
A creature can have...
Actually they do have spell levels. They just don't count as actual spell for purposes of qualifying for feats and such.
Their spell level is what determines the DC, among other things.
"The saving throw (if any) against a spell-like ability is 10 + the level of the spell the ability resembles or duplicates + the creature's Charisma modifier."
The SLA resembles or duplicates a spell. The spell has a level. The SLA does not.
My statement that SLA does not have a spell level is based on that distinction, as well as the explicit statement on p. 72 of Complete Arcane. I completely accept that Complete Arcane may not be an acceptable source for some for many reasons. But, it provides a basis for what would tend to be familiar to players unless there is something specific to PF or even to the SRD that says otherwise.
So, what is your basis for saying that they have spell levels? What else does this spell level determine?
** spoiler omitted **
A creature can have...
Actually they do have spell levels. They just don't count as actual spell for purposes of qualifying for feats and such.
Their spell level is what determines the DC, among other things.
"The saving throw (if any) against a spell-like ability is 10 + the level of the spell the ability resembles or duplicates + the creature's Charisma modifier."
The SLA resembles or duplicates a spell. The spell has a level. The SLA does not.
My statement that SLA does not have a spell level is based on that distinction, as well as the explicit statement on p. 72 of Complete Arcane. I completely accept that Complete Arcane may not be an acceptable source for some for many reasons. But, it provides a basis for what would tend to be familiar to players unless there is something specific to PF or even to the SRD that says otherwise.
So, what is your basis for saying that they have spell levels?
That quote on page 72 agrees with what I said. It never says they don't have levels. It says they can't be used to qualify for feats based on specific levels of spells that can be cast.
As effects related to how to adjudicate the SLA it has levels. Once again I am not saying it acts like a spell, but it is assigned a spell level for the purposes of interacting with other rules. An example is the quicken SLA feat. The chart goes off of caster level and spell level
That is also why some outsiders have levels besides their descriptions.
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 12th)Constant—fly
At will—dimensional anchor, greater teleport (self plus 50 lbs. of objects only), invisibility (self only), major image (DC 17), wall of ice
3/day—quickened invisibility (self only)
1/day—summon (level 4, 1 bone devil, 35%)
edit:removed an extra "as"
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That quote on page 72 agrees with what I said. It never says they don't have levels. It says they can't be used to qualify for feats based on specific levels of spells that can be cast.
So, what is your basis for saying that they have spell levels?
Ok, agreed. CAr 72 doesn't say they don't have levels. However, it provides a context that while the power scales (SL), the complexity inherent to spell level does not. They don't allow for qualifying based on spell level. In principle, it acts generally like spell level, even if it isn't spell level.
I'd suggest I've pushed the distinction to the point where I'm being rather pedantic. :D
As as effects related to how to adjudicate the SLA it has levels. Once again I am not saying it acts like a spell, but it is assigned a spell level for the purposes of interacting with other rules. An example is the quicken SLA feat. The chart goes off of caster level and spell level
I think we agree in principle. It doesn't have a level. When it needs to interact with rules that need to know a level, it interacts based upon the spell level of the spell it replicates. You might say it is assigned a spell level in this case, while I might say that it has no spell level, but uses the spell level of the related spell for the same purpose. The effect of the difference is the same.
A spell-like ability that duplicates a spell with a casting time greater than 1 full round cannot be quickened.
That is also why some outsiders have levels besides their descriptions.
1/day—summon (level 4, 1 bone devil, 35%)
Same idea here, and we agree in principle.
| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
The issue however seems to be that rather than requiring a "level in a spell-casting class" or being "able to cast level x spells", it simply states a "caster level". That is, it specifies an *aspect* of an ability rather than an ability per se. I thoroughly agree that it should not permit you to qualify for, say, the Eldritch Knight prestige class that states as a requisite "able to cast 3rd level arcane spells". But as written, the requirement for some of the feats simply states a "caster level x" as a requirement, rather than "ability to cast spells at caster level x". The fact that you can achieve a caster level without being able to cast spells (i.e. spell-like abilities) makes the requirement of those feats ambiguous, and thus in need of clarification.