So, I was making a werewolf witch character and saw the Moon patron in the new Ultimate Magic book, so I was thinking why not have a wolf as my familiar too? Now, my GM initially said no, but he's usually reasonable if you can give him good enough reasons and balancing suggestions, sometimes he will change his mind (unlike another GM I play with, that once he says no, end of discussion), so I was thinking I'd get some ideas on how to make it work from you guys.
I was kinda thinking just now what about taking a wolf, but giving it the young template, then later taking the Improved familiar feat to make it "grow up" into a adult wolf?
Anyone like/dislike this idea and/or have any other ideas?
Familiars are not meant to be combat capable, which a wolf most certainly is. Is there an archetype that gives an animal companion at the expense of something?
Familiars are not meant to be combat capable, which a wolf most certainly is. Is there an archetype that gives an animal companion at the expense of something?
Hmm, well true. So, maybe leave him with the young template so he's not as combat capable? Other option would maybe be to use the fox familiar but say it's a wolf.
As for what you said, not really that I saw on the pathfinder SRD database (My book/PDF won't ship until Monday).
I disagree with the Familiars are not suppose to be combat effective. CR and STat wise, wolf is not any worse then a carbuncle, Stirge or small elemental which is 5th lv Improve Familiar options.
The question is does Young Template equal to normal familiar or a lv 3 familiar?
In the end if your GM says ok, your good.
Cheapy is referring to Ultimate Magic.
|
As one of the fifth level Improved Familiar choices, I would definitely say that a wolf isn't out of line, as it has the same CR as most of the other fifth level choices and far fewer magical capabilities than any of them (except the Stirge). Heck, a Celestial/Fiendish/Entropic/Resolute Wolf wouldn't be out of line.
Cheapy is referring to Ultimate Magic.
Right, I know that's where I found the Moon patron (as I said though, that's on the OGL database, I don't yet have the actual Book/PDF until Monday)
As one of the fifth level Improved Familiar choices, I would definitely say that a wolf isn't out of line, as it has the same CR as most of the other fifth level choices and far fewer magical capabilities than any of them (except the Stirge). Heck, a Celestial/Fiendish/Entropic/Resolute Wolf wouldn't be out of line.
Hmm, ok so what do you think of my idea to make it a young wolf, then at level 6 take Improved Familiar for him to grow up?
Also, as I said, my intent with this thread is to get ideas to run by my GM before I talk to him again about it.
|
|
As one of the fifth level Improved Familiar choices, I would definitely say that a wolf isn't out of line, as it has the same CR as most of the other fifth level choices and far fewer magical capabilities than any of them (except the Stirge). Heck, a Celestial/Fiendish/Entropic/Resolute Wolf wouldn't be out of line.Hmm, ok so what do you think of my idea to make it a young wolf, then at level 6 take Improved Familiar for him to grow up?
Also, as I said, my intent with this thread is to get ideas to run by my GM before I talk to him again about it.
CR-wise a Young wolf is still a little on the high side for a regular familiar, but (this maybe a little touch too much) speaking stat-wise, if you apply the young template twice to get a baby wolf, and when you hit 3rd level you take Imp Familiar and remove one of the two Young templates and when you hit 5th take of the final Young template. Now you have a baby wolf familiar that grows into a puppy and then into a full grown wolf!
I would allow it, I am one for fluff and mechanics working together.
I agree with AlanM, or at least something to that effect.
My suggestion would be to take the Fox familiar, call it a young wolf, and then take the wolf later as an improved familiar.
My suggestion would be to take the Fox familiar, call it a young wolf, and then take the wolf later as an improved familiar.
Yeah, I actually thought of that too, then just say the fox is a wolf roleplay wise until it's "upgraded" by the feat at level 7?
My suggestion would be to take the Fox familiar, call it a young wolf, and then take the wolf later as an improved familiar.
+1 A wolf isn't optimal, and definitely won't be breaking your game. I would allow this closer to 4th level, possibly 3rd, as a house rule.
If your DM is a little thick headed try asking if he'll allow you to use the riding dog stats instead but refluffed as a wolf. [/jest] (The dog is actually stronger, as I understand it, but being that it's domesticated, people not in the know might assume it's going to be weaker than the wolf. :D)
Well, I'm going to be taking the Beast Bonded template, so what he said was I could have the wolf but at level 1 he has the young template, then at level 4 when I get the Enhanced Familiar, he loses it and becomes a normal wolf again (plus familiar benefits) but I do NOT get Enhanced Familiar...
Trying to decide if I think it's worth it or not... I really have come to like the idea of a wolf familiar and the beast bonded archetype + Moon Patron making me a pseudo-werewolf instead of a full werewolf (which was my original approved plan, wolf familiar was still in the works), but to not get a Hex at 4th level NOR the Enhanced Familiar... not sure about that...
having a wolf is a neat thematic but there is a reason no familiar is bigger than small. your walking furry spell book can and will be a target and a medium wolf is lot easier to hit.
having a wolf is a neat thematic but there is a reason no familiar is bigger than small. your walking furry spell book can and will be a target and a medium wolf is lot easier to hit.
Hmmm good point. Maybe if I keep him with the young template that will keep him "small" then maybe I can keep the Enhanced Familiar benefit too :P
I would caution you not to go crazy with the familiar as a combatant. Replacing one is really expensive and imposes a significant hardship, not to mention costing you all the spells you've pumped into it through scrolls and whatnot. The best familiars are the ones that don't get noticed, not the ones that can scrap next to the witch.
I would caution you not to go crazy with the familiar as a combatant. Replacing one is really expensive and imposes a significant hardship, not to mention costing you all the spells you've pumped into it through scrolls and whatnot. The best familiars are the ones that don't get noticed, not the ones that can scrap next to the witch.
+1
As a Witch, using your familiar in combat is sort of like a Wizard using his spellbooks as melee weapons.
In fact, it's worse. A Wizard can have multiple copies of their spellbooks as backups.
Oh yeah I don't want it for combat, just for the theme of being a wolf. So, as I said a "young" therefore small wolf would be just fine with me.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I find it humorous that just because a wolf is capable of threatening enemies at level 1 that it is assumed it is intended to be used in combat. I don't think the OP ever said he wanted the thing to attack anyone.
That said, I have a really amazing mental image of the relationship between a witch and a wolf familiar. [cinematic effects]The wolf maintains its distance from the party, only revealing itself occasionally to remind its master of its presence (and this should be done by the GM at peak moments during combat for tension). It howls at night, warding off would be hunting packs of other wolves. Each morning, as the rest of the party is just beginning to rise, the wolf departs from communion with the witch, denying the rest of the party its company. A very solitary creature with an eerie bond to this one individual to the exclusion of all other creatures.[/cinematic effects]
Granted, I know there are other uses for a familiar than storing spells, but that image to me is a powerful role playing springboard.
Off-topic: A young female witch with a wolf familiar; wears a red cloak everywhere, and carries a hand axe for last resort self-defense. The cloak was her mother's, and the axe was her dad's. She learned the occult from her grandmother who was eaten by wolves. Despite that traumatic incident, the girl feels a strange kinship with them...
Oh, man this is good.
Threadjack!
How would you make it mechanically balanced to allow a Winter Wolf as an Animal Companion (not familiar).
Oh yeah I don't want it for combat, just for the theme of being a wolf. So, as I said a "young" therefore small wolf would be just fine with me.
So, ran this idea past my GM, he said being a medium wolf is fine with him, and it's easier than remaking the wolf as small, so we are just going to use the wolf as written. Heh.