so my problem/question is this.
i have a player in my 2nd darkness adventure who is playing a magus (8lvl)
he is using a rapier(+1 keen) without counting arcane pool.
this pc can deal out loads of dmg using intensifyed schocking grasp, and unless i am mistaken the math is as follows.
he crits on a 15-20, using intensifyid schocking grasp that is 16d6 point of electricity dmg + 2d6+str+magic(flaming/frost)
adding up to somthing like 20d6+6 avr 76 point.
have i missed somthing?
even worse if he hade a spell storing weapon he would be dealing an extra 8d6 point of dmg that is about 100 points in total, enough to 1shot most enemys
have i missed somthing?
Yup, extra damage dice over and above a weapon's normal damage are never multiplied.
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have i missed somthing?
Yes. He needs to be 10th level to use Intensified Spell on Shocking Grasp.
Your spells can go beyond several normal limitations.
Benefit: An intensified spell increases the maximum number of damage dice by 5 levels. You must actually have sufficient caster levels to surpass the maximum in order to benefit from this feat. No other variables of the spell are affected, and spells that inflict damage that is not modified by caster level are not affected by this feat. An intensified spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
Emphasis mine.
Dragonborn, pretty sure he can use intensify but he only gets three extra dice at lvl8.
+1 Aldin's right. I'm quite sure.
As others have said:
-Yes, you have this right.
-No, it's not broken.
have i missed somthing?Yup, extra damage dice over and above a weapon's normal damage are never multiplied.
The spell's damage is multiplied on a critical with spell strike. It's one of the advantages of using it as a magus.
Benefit: An intensified spell increases the maximum number of damage dice by 5 levels. You must actually have sufficient caster levels to surpass the maximum in order to benefit from this feat.
I'd read that as it would ramp up to a maximum 10d6 normally at 10th level. However, at the 8th level caster he is, I'd see it as being able to surpass the normal 5d6 damage cap up to 8d6 damage. This maybe wrong, but that's how I read it.
I think OP's math was right. It's a very powerful strike, IF it happens. The magus isn't going to be blowing a 2nd level spell every strike. When it does happen, it's great, but normally it's not going to be an issue most attacks.
EDIT:Ninja'd several times =p
The spell's damage is multiplied on a critical with spell strike. It's one of the advantages of using it as a magus.
It is?
At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts
a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell
list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is
wielding as part of a melee attack. If successful, this
melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the
effects of the spell. Instead of the free melee touch attack
normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make
one free melee attack with his weapon as part of casting
this spell. If used with spell combat, this does not grant
an additional attack.
I guess I don't see how that supersedes:
Sometimes you multiply damage by some factor, such as on a critical hit. Roll the damage (with all modifiers) multiple times and total the results.
Note: When you multiply damage more than once, each multiplier works off the original, unmultiplied damage. So if you are asked to double the damage twice, the end result is three times the normal damage.
Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon's normal damage are never multiplied.
Yep.
Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of "touch" from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals x2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
This was the most recent preview of what is to be the final version of Spellstrike in UM, and is why it supersedes the normal restriction.
...and that's what I get for paying insufficient attention - thanks!
*Aldin tips hit hat to Sniggevert*
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I guess I don't see how that supersedes:
Sometimes you multiply damage by some factor, such as on a critical hit. Roll the damage (with all modifiers) multiple times and total the results.
Note: When you multiply damage more than once, each multiplier works off the original, unmultiplied damage. So if you are asked to double the damage twice, the end result is three times the normal damage.
Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon's normal damage are never multiplied.
I know you already realized your mistake here but I just want to remind you that the specific always supersedes the general in Pathfinder.
Even before the language of spellstrike was changed, the argument was:
Since you can crit on a touch spell, such as Shocking Grasp, if the attack used to deliver the spell crits, the spell damage would double as normal.
This was an issue even before spellstrike even existed, (and the language change of spellstrike does nothing to adress this more basic case).
If you hold the charge and deliver a touch spell via an unarmed or natural attack, how does that interact with critical hits?
The most common view was that it works exactly as spellstrike does now. (Perhaps the reason for the change in spellstrike)
...and that's what I get for paying insufficient attention - thanks!
*Aldin tips hit hat to Sniggevert*
Maybe this makes it clear:
Flaming Weapon = extra damage dice, but a spellstrike doesn´t add damage, its a spell on it´s own, and as a touch attack can crit.
8th level and up characters doing 100 damage per round isn't really earth shattering. Especially if a crit is involved.
An 8th level rogue with TWF and Haste can drop 20d6 per round fairly easily when he gets a flank up. That's without adding magic items, crits, strength to damage or anything else (I'm just assuming two shortswords). He also doesn't have to spend 2 of his 5 second level spells to do it.
thx for the clarification, i think i got it now:)
1) on a crit the weapon and spell will crit for 2d6(weapon)+ 16d6(spell) + whatever extra d6 from effect on weapon.
if the empowered arcana was added to this would the dmg from the spell then be 12d6 x2?
thx for the clarification, i think i got it now:)
1) on a crit the weapon and spell will crit for 2d6(weapon)+ 16d6(spell) + whatever extra d6 from effect on weapon.
if the empowered arcana was added to this would the dmg from the spell then be 12d6 x2?
Empowered result is 12d6 damage times 1.5 for an average of 63 points of damage.
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Just ignoring any possible errors in math for the moment. So he uses a 2nd level spell slot, has burned some arcane pool points undoubtedly, succeeds on his concentration check for casting defensively, threatens a crit, confirms a crit and does some pretty fierce damage. Seems to me that it's a somewhat rare event. While a raging barbarian power attacking 2 handed may not do that much, they will do it more consistently.so my problem/question is this.
i have a player in my 2nd darkness adventure who is playing a magus (8lvl)
he is using a rapier(+1 keen) without counting arcane pool.
this pc can deal out loads of dmg using intensifyed schocking grasp, and unless i am mistaken the math is as follows.
he crits on a 15-20, using intensifyid schocking grasp that is 16d6 point of electricity dmg + 2d6+str+magic(flaming/frost)
adding up to somthing like 20d6+6 avr 76 point.have i missed somthing?
even worse if he hade a spell storing weapon he would be dealing an extra 8d6 point of dmg that is about 100 points in total, enough to 1shot most enemys
With the Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp) trait, the magus can cast that intensified spell with a 1st level spell slot... Unless of course, they have errata for this?