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Now I read some of the books but can someone please explain to me what the heck happened to the Forgotten Realms. Are these changes before the switch to 4th? Finally, has this effected anyone's game?
Ive loved the Forgotten Realms since they first came out. I remember reading about it in Dragon and when the Gray Box finally came out I was all over it. So what the heck? Magic is dead? Kingdoms just fall? WTF?
4e in FR is set one hundred years in the future, after Cyric assassinates Mystra. The world changed.
If you don't like it, don't play it.
==Aelryinth
I take it from the location of the thread, forum-wise, that he's not going to play 4e.
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It's FR being FR. Come on these things happen every other edition if not more.
I own the 4E FR campaign book, and boy, a lot happened. Multiple gods died; Toril got reintroduced to Abeir; a country literally exploded; new countries literally appeared out of nowhere. Basically, magical nuclear armageddon hit the place.
So being a Forgotten Realms Fanatic, and since it is set 100 years in the future, I suppose I really dont have to use it. I am so curious to see what happened. Who survives, who doesnt, and see where everything got lead to.
I can't remember who the author is however My suggestion would be to purchase "The Grand History of the Realms."
It's an great book by a avid gamer like the rest of us that had an amazing idea and got his work noticed and then published.To me it IS the definative history of the realms(except for the parts I wanna change, Halruua and Elemental skyships from ebberon work for me)
That book was where I first learned of the spell plauge and the death of mystra and how asmodeus killed azuth took his godhood and becamne a god himself or something like that.
I purchased the 4th ed PHB,read it cover to cover twice and now it sits on my shelf collecting dust, the GHotR is a source book I use alot.
I'm just glad I never cared about the Realms.
I used to feel the same way, until I discovered that all the cool ideas I had for my homebrew were already in FR and mechanically hashed out. With that in mind, and the fact that the NPC's were statted up and a long history was in place, I started using the Realms and never looked back. Of course, I'm not emotionally invested to where the 4E changes make a difference to me, but I can see why someone else would care.
When 4E was first announced I was quite pleased, I could keep buying FR-books for the setting-flavour, and not have to spend money on rule-books (nothing to do with the system, but I had a shelf full of 3.5 books that I rather liked to have continued use of).
Then, the previews for how they were going to mark the edition-shift in the Realms began... Now I buy Pathfinder stuff.
I'm just glad I never cared about the Realms.
TriOmegaZero is the wisest person in this thread, including myself.
Just cut out the last few pages from your copy of Grand History of the Realms and all will be okay. Ignore the idiocy of the 4E Realms, just continue on as if they did not exist and write your own metaplot. One where Mystra is not assassinated in her own fricking realm and where chaotic Tymora did not marry lawful Tyr, being traded off like a horse by Sune to "balance the scales". >.<
Just cut out the last few pages from your copy of Grand History of the Realms and all will be okay. Ignore the idiocy of the 4E Realms, just continue on as if they did not exist and write your own metaplot. One where Mystra is not assassinated in her own fricking realm and where chaotic Tymora did not marry lawful Tyr, being traded off like a horse by Sune to "balance the scales". >.<
This, I'm almost having more fun writing the future history for my Forgotten Realms-set Kingmaker game than I am running the game itself since I'm ignoring the spellplague and rewriting some of the other major changes to the Realms. In the end I think that the spellplague, while destroying some of the Realms I like, was good for me as it sealed the deal on me not going 4e and I've been able to spend my gaming dollars here at Paizo instead.
One thought if you don't mind mixing some Sci-Fi with your Fantasy.
Perhaps the 4e version of events is another possible reality of what "might happen". The PCs are pulled through some portal into it. They get to experience a different Material Plane that is 100-some years further along. By seeing what happened, they might be able to return to their own reality and change things so it doesn't happen there.
Perhaps with trips back and forth as the party advances or as new campaigns start.
You could then accept the reality of 4e without also abandoning the reality of the edition you prefer.
Just a thought.
I own the 4E FR campaign book, and boy, a lot happened. Multiple gods died; Toril got reintroduced to Abeir; a country literally exploded; new countries literally appeared out of nowhere. Basically, magical nuclear armageddon hit the place.
And they just wanted to freshen things up a bit and make sure the new system of magic is FR-compatible... Boy, did they ever go overboard. It's a fun setting, but it isn't really the Forgotten Realms I know and like(d).
and screw Cyric.
Amen to that. Biggest moron and waste of divinity since... ever? This guy survives and thrives on the back of deities like Mask and Bane, leeching portfolios left and right, and on top of it all plugs the mother of all plot devices with the "killing" of Mystra? Good grief.
In the end I think that the spellplague, while destroying some of the Realms I like, was good for me as it sealed the deal on me not going 4e and I've been able to spend my gaming dollars here at Paizo instead.
+1.
Although I'm considering doing something to simplify the Weave/magic/Shadow Weave relationship. Either by introducing a N deity of magic (new deity, or a fusion of pre-existing ones), or discarding the Weave/Shadow Weave entirely.
One thought if you don't mind mixing some Sci-Fi with your Fantasy.
Perhaps the 4e version of events is another possible reality of what "might happen". The PCs are pulled through some portal into it. They get to experience a different Material Plane that is 100-some years further along. By seeing what happened, they might be able to return to their own reality and change things so it doesn't happen there.
Perhaps with trips back and forth as the party advances or as new campaigns start.
You could then accept the reality of 4e without also abandoning the reality of the edition you prefer.
Just a thought.
Run a FRINGE-in-the-Forgotten-Realms campaign with a group of desperate cultists from the "alternate" (read: 4e FR) world trying to repair their broken world by sabotaging the Forgotten Realms world the PCs reside in. Elminster is the only one who sees the pattern of events that indicates the other shattered world exists in the first place.
Just cut out the last few pages from your copy of Grand History of the Realms and all will be okay. Ignore the idiocy of the 4E Realms, just continue on as if they did not exist and write your own metaplot. One where Mystra is not assassinated in her own fricking realm and where chaotic Tymora did not marry lawful Tyr, being traded off like a horse by Sune to "balance the scales". >.<
+1000. Great book the ending/the begin of 4th ed realms blew chunks.
It would have been 1000 times better if they just had it happen and leave it a mystery....like the Mournlands in Eberron. Though even than I would have stuck w/ the old Realms...I would have just a little more respect for the new ones.
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One thought if you don't mind mixing some Sci-Fi with your Fantasy.
Perhaps the 4e version of events is another possible reality of what "might happen". The PCs are pulled through some portal into it. They get to experience a different Material Plane that is 100-some years further along. By seeing what happened, they might be able to return to their own reality and change things so it doesn't happen there.
Perhaps with trips back and forth as the party advances or as new campaigns start.
You could then accept the reality of 4e without also abandoning the reality of the edition you prefer.
Just a thought.
Bleedin hell, that sounds like a good idea. I ran a campaign with the well of time and had them go into a Star Frontiers type setting but just advancing the timeline in the realm and showing them what COULD happen.....
Wait a tic Tymora married Tyr? Ok it official Im never leaving the country again.
Run a FRINGE-in-the-Forgotten-Realms campaign with a group of desperate cultists from the "alternate" (read: 4e FR) world trying to repair their broken world by sabotaging the Forgotten Realms world the PCs reside in. Elminster is the only one who sees the pattern of events that indicates the other shattered world exists in the first place.One thought if you don't mind mixing some Sci-Fi with your Fantasy.
Perhaps the 4e version of events is another possible reality of what "might happen". The PCs are pulled through some portal into it. They get to experience a different Material Plane that is 100-some years further along. By seeing what happened, they might be able to return to their own reality and change things so it doesn't happen there.
Perhaps with trips back and forth as the party advances or as new campaigns start.
You could then accept the reality of 4e without also abandoning the reality of the edition you prefer.
Just a thought.
Just beware goddess with their own vagendas.
In the end I think that the spellplague, while destroying some of the Realms I like, was good for me as it sealed the deal on me not going 4e and I've been able to spend my gaming dollars here at Paizo instead.+1.
Although I'm considering doing something to simplify the Weave/magic/Shadow Weave relationship. Either by introducing a N deity of magic (new deity, or a fusion of pre-existing ones), or discarding the Weave/Shadow Weave entirely.
Make Mystra Neutral and the Goddess of ALL magic, including the Shadow Weave.
Have her 'allow' Shar influence in the Shadow Weave, but not control.COunter it by making Selune the Goddess of Silver Magic as counterpoint.
Then just put in a decent CN god for wild magic to balance Azuth, Mystra is again Neutral in the middle.
==Aelryinth
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So what the heck? Magic is dead? Kingdoms just fall? WTF?
What happened is they made the setting live up to its name: Forgotten. That's what the setting is to me.
I relocated to Golarion (The Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting) and haven't looked back since.
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The question is, the second coming of what? Overwrought prose?I'm just glad I never cared about the Realms.Blasphemy, Ed Greenwood was the second coming.
Seeing as Elminster was the be all end all of everything (I realize sarcasm doesnt translate into computerese) I am waiting to see if the Almighty Greenwood strikes you down. Reflex save for half.
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In the end I think that the spellplague, while destroying some of the Realms I like, was good for me as it sealed the deal on me not going 4e and I've been able to spend my gaming dollars here at Paizo instead.+1.
Although I'm considering doing something to simplify the Weave/magic/Shadow Weave relationship. Either by introducing a N deity of magic (new deity, or a fusion of pre-existing ones), or discarding the Weave/Shadow Weave entirely.
Make Mystra Neutral and the Goddess of ALL magic, including the Shadow Weave.
Have her 'allow' Shar influence in the Shadow Weave, but not control.
COunter it by making Selune the Goddess of Silver Magic as counterpoint.Then just put in a decent CN god for wild magic to balance Azuth, Mystra is again Neutral in the middle.
==Aelryinth
Absolutely Brilliant
Yes, they had Mystra murdered. Yes, they killed of all the NPCs through a 97 year time jump. Yes, they blew up Halruua, yes, they made some "holes" in the map and some other stuff.
But, and this is what I don't understand: Excepting these changes, EVERYTHING remains in its place. Every road, every town is exactly where it was 97 years ago.
Great work.
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Yes, they had Mystra murdered. Yes, they killed of all the NPCs through a 97 year time jump. Yes, they blew up Halruua, yes, they made some "holes" in the map and some other stuff.
But, and this is what I don't understand: Excepting these changes, EVERYTHING remains in its place. Every road, every town is exactly where it was 97 years ago.
Great work.
So it's the same thing that's happened like ten times now?
Seriously you guys are all acting like this is something new. The goddess of magic died and everything went to hell and was CHANGED FOREVER yet most stuff in the Sword Coast didn't change at all. That's Tuesday in FR.
The question is, the second coming of what? Overwrought prose?I'm just glad I never cared about the Realms.Blasphemy, Ed Greenwood was the second coming.
dammit toz, i was drinking! Now my phone is drenched! You owe a new one!
I never liked Forgotten Realms from day one, since I was raised on Greyhawk, but even then I wasn't a canon lawyer, and would use the setting to meet my needs. We even had two DMs running Greyhawk with two seperate timelines and chain of events, and no one thought twice about it.
Hell, I even played Dragonlance using GURPS, damn them for making it to dependent on 3E, or whatever the current version of D&D was at that time.
The only time the changes become an issue is for organized play, otherwise, it is just another free pass to gripe about a system, especially if you never intend to play it.
The only one I regret missing out on, when it was first released, is Eberron. But I do see alot of the concepts being carried over, even Pathfinder uses some of the ideas.
Now I read some of the books but can someone please explain to me what the heck happened to the Forgotten Realms. Are these changes before the switch to 4th? Finally, has this effected anyone's game?
Ive loved the Forgotten Realms since they first came out. I remember reading about it in Dragon and when the Gray Box finally came out I was all over it. So what the heck? Magic is dead? Kingdoms just fall? WTF?
SO you haven't bought anything FR since the grey box? Why would you care what they do with the setting now?
Why would you expect them not to be? Unless the basic geography changes the reasons why you'd site a town near to the ford in a river (or build a road along the patch of ground that's slightly higher and doesn't get boggy when it rains) remain just as they were. Besides, inertia isn't just a concept in mechanics.Yes, they had Mystra murdered. Yes, they killed of all the NPCs through a 97 year time jump. Yes, they blew up Halruua, yes, they made some "holes" in the map and some other stuff.
But, and this is what I don't understand: Excepting these changes, EVERYTHING remains in its place. Every road, every town is exactly where it was 97 years ago.
Great work.
No. But towns go empty, and change their names, and kingdoms arise, and wars depopulate entire regions, and roads wash out, and new towns spring up, and rivers change their flow, and forest lines change, and so on and so forth. But in 97 years, it didn't. It's pissy work. If they felt they wanted to CHANGE the Realms, why didn't they? Probably because it would entail actual design work...
No. But towns go empty, and change their names, and kingdoms arise, and wars depopulate entire regions, and roads wash out, and new towns spring up, and rivers change their flow, and forest lines change, and so on and so forth. But in 97 years, it didn't. It's pissy work. If they felt they wanted to CHANGE the Realms, why didn't they? Probably because it would entail actual design work...
Yeah! The town I live in is 200 years old and it has moved all over the place! Up the river, down the river, moved it up on a mountain once...
Or not. Changing some city names and places on a freaking map does not entail either design or work. It would have given FR "fans" something more to b@$~$ about though so that would have been a good thing.
Yeah! The town I live in is 200 years old and it has moved all over the place! Up the river, down the river, moved it up on a mountain once...
Actually a lot of towns along rivers do have that kind of history. The river changes course and the town follows suit in order to survive. The government comes in and want to build a dam, but a town sits smack dab in the middle of the expected reservoir, so they move the town. The original site naturally flooded out, so the residents moved a mile back to rebuild on higher ground. Happens fairly frequently in history.
Yeah! The town I live in is 200 years old and it has moved all over the place! Up the river, down the river, moved it up on a mountain once...Actually a lot of towns along rivers do have that kind of history. The river changes course and the town follows suit in order to survive. The government comes in and want to build a dam, but a town sits smack dab in the middle of the expected reservoir, so they move the town. The original site naturally flooded out, so the residents moved a mile back to rebuild on higher ground. Happens fairly frequently in history.
Missing the point I think. WOuld changing locations/names of cities been the kind of "creative" design "work" anyone would want/expect? I'm just guessing but I would say 99.99999999% of people would say 'no'.
Yeah! The town I live in is 200 years old and it has moved all over the place! Up the river, down the river, moved it up on a mountain once...Actually a lot of towns along rivers do have that kind of history. The river changes course and the town follows suit in order to survive. The government comes in and want to build a dam, but a town sits smack dab in the middle of the expected reservoir, so they move the town. The original site naturally flooded out, so the residents moved a mile back to rebuild on higher ground. Happens fairly frequently in history.Missing the point I think. WOuld changing locations/names of cities been the kind of "creative" design "work" anyone would want/expect? I'm just guessing but I would say 99.99999999% of people would say 'no'.
You are missing Sissyl's point. They didn't change anything on large portions of the maps. While I can see why they didn't, I can also understand how a lot of people could see the 100 year jump that somehow manages to not touch the maps as very jarring. For those used to FR, it really isn't, because oddities of that size has happened repeatedly in its long history, but it is one of the things that can turn new people off from that setting.
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SO you haven't bought anything FR since the grey box? Why would you care what they do with the setting now?Now I read some of the books but can someone please explain to me what the heck happened to the Forgotten Realms. Are these changes before the switch to 4th? Finally, has this effected anyone's game?
Ive loved the Forgotten Realms since they first came out. I remember reading about it in Dragon and when the Gray Box finally came out I was all over it. So what the heck? Magic is dead? Kingdoms just fall? WTF?
Uhm What? How did you get that? Anywhoo...I ordered the Grand History of the Realms so I can cry a little inside.
Forgotten Realms is like the Indian Jones Movie Franchise.
The first go round was good. The second wasn't great, but you could watch it at least. The third was superb. The last one created a meme on par with jump the shark.
That is a surprisingly apt analogy.
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That is a surprisingly apt analogy.Forgotten Realms is like the Indian Jones Movie Franchise.
The first go round was good. The second wasn't great, but you could watch it at least. The third was superb. The last one created a meme on par with jump the shark.
At first I was just joking, but when I looked back... X_X
You are missing Sissyl's point. They didn't change anything on large portions of the maps. While I can see why they didn't, I can also understand how a lot of people could see the 100 year jump that somehow manages to not touch the maps as very jarring. For those used to FR, it really isn't, because oddities of that size has happened repeatedly in its long history, but it is one of the things that can turn new people off from that setting.
Why? It is only 100 years. Not 1000s or even 100s just one century. And sissyl's "point" was that not making wholesale changes to the maps indicated a lack of creativity and design work. I personally have no dog in this fight but that is, to me, a bizarre thing to say. A setting is a hell of a lot more than where stuff is on a map and the real design work for every setting lies in that.