|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Kyle Baird (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber), Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 01:19 PM Flag | List |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
Deussu wrote:
A question about bows.
If you have a +1 Composite longbow with a strenght bonus of +1, can you upgrade the strength bonus by paying the difference (100 gp per increase)?
Josh, can we get an official answer on this? Seems like not being able to simply upgrade the strength bonus would be a huge penalty for ranged characters who manage to increase their character's strength.
ex. Having a +2 Flaming Composite Longbow Mighty +2, and wanting a +2 Flaming Composite Longbow Mighty +3 would cost the character 8,350 gp!
Joshua J. Frost, Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 02:39 PM Flag | List |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
Upgrade by paying the difference.
James Risner (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber), Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 04:25 PM Flag | List |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
Joshua J. Frost wrote:
Upgrade by paying the difference.
Just to be sure, you are referring to both the Magical (+1 weapon to +2 weapon for 6000 gp) and the non-Magical (Masterwork Composite Longbow of +1 STR to +2 STR for 100 gp) are both available by paying the respective differences, 6000 gp and 100 gp?
Joshua J. Frost, Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 05:11 PM Flag | List |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
In the specific case of bows, yes.
Ok, so I found this in the FAQ and it doesn't seem to have been contradicted anywhere but I wanted to ask a follow up question.
Once you've paid the extra gold to have the Bow adjusted upwards in strength bonus, can it ever be downgraded again to have a lesser bonus? Would that cost an additional 100 gp?
This situation could become necessary if you gain a Belt of Strength, have the bow adjusted for your new bonus, and then lose the belt during an adventure or need to sell it for whatever reason. Or if you wind up taking permanent ability damage that you can't afford to have repaired.
|
Well the way it normally works when your changing a bow to add more strength is to change the string, so upgrading the str mod on a bow should be just getting a new string. Now as for downgrading say you have str 16, then it goes down to 14 I would say unless you write down on your character sheet that you have composite longbow string for +2 str, aka that your character actually kept the old string he would need to go get a brand new one which would cost the extra gold to purchase.
not really. With the composite long bow's of the past, its actually changing the wood thickness, the amount of recurve, and other such things. The string really has nothing to do with the weight of the pull.
Realistically, if I have to sell my armor to buy masterwork, or sell my armor to buy mithril, because the argument is it is new material, the same should hold true for adding Strength to a bow.
|
Originally, I expected that to upgrade the strength rating to a bow, one would have to sell back the older version first. The strength rating seems more tied to the creation of the item.
But I am glad that Josh ruled it could be upgraded like a magical enhancement and hope that rule remains the same for version 4.0 of the guide.
|
|
Originally, I expected that to upgrade the strength rating to a bow, one would have to sell back the older version first. The strength rating seems more tied to the creation of the item.
But I am glad that Josh ruled it could be upgraded like a magical enhancement and hope that rule remains the same for version 4.0 of the guide.
If we're gonna weigh in on this, I think the strength upgrade for bows makes no sense. Upgrading magic items makes sense: that's built into the system for how they are made. Upgrading the strength of a bow, a factor that is inherent in the materials, technique, and design of an everyday object: this is senseless from the perspective of modeling the game world. The reasons for allowing upgrade of the strength rating of the bow are strictly gamist in the spirit of, "archers should have nice things too." Magically transforming the bow, this is a beast of another color. Inventiveness on how such a bow might be altered is a beast of yet another color; modern bows have replaceable limbs of different pull-weight, for example, and this would make sense in a period with modern style thread-cutting machinery. But, we have guns, so who knows what assumption make sense. :)
Disclaimer: I love archers. I also think retroactively changing it to no-strength-upgrade would be bad form.
|
|
Before Heirloom Wweapon, I think this is how we evaluated the change in our heads. The crafter would provide you with a repeat-customer discount by taking your existing trade-in for full retail and apply it to the upgrade bow.
Sure it's a little modern in its concept, but it worked. With the advent of the Heirloom Weapon, it makes the suspension of disbelief a bit more challenging.
IMHO, I think it is just an equalizer to allow the ranged warrior to stay somewhat in line with the melee fighter. Sure s/he gains the benefit of being away from the threat, but has to constantly resupply the ammo. Depending on the quality/enhancement of the ammo, this could be a large, re-occurring investment.
With the limited number of ranged fighters I have observed, it does not appear to be a major issue. YMMV.
|
|
I'm an old Living Greyhawker and sometime stuck in those ways. In LG you couldn't upgrade the physical qualities of the item. You couldn't make a +2 Str bow a +3 Str bow. You couldn't add some metal and make a dagger a short sword.
The way it was explained to me was that when you upgrade the physical qualities of a strength bow it's like laminating another layer of wood onto shaft thus increasing its thickness and draw strength. Now this makes some sense to me.
Now reversing this process seems much more problematic. You are literally removing parts of the laminate or shaving wood off your bow. I really don't think either of these situations is good for your bow.
Remember, you can still use a the bow, just at a -mod to hit.
-Swiftbrook
Before Heirloom Wweapon, I think this is how we evaluated the change in our heads. The crafter would provide you with a repeat-customer discount by taking your existing trade-in for full retail and apply it to the upgrade bow.
The nice thing about this ruling is that you can actually get an heirloom composite longbow now. You just start with the base model (+0 Str for 100gp) and put on the Str mods later.
|
|
Swiftbrook is correct about 3.5: you could not upgrade the "strength test" of a mundane bow. Archery-focused character generally owned three bows: one a spot below their current strength (usually the first one they owned), a mid-range one which matched their unbuffed normal STR, and a high-strength one used when raging or buffed.
Inasmuch as I like archery too, I think carrying over the 3.5 rule would be most appropriate. Archery is already a very strong mechanic -- and owning multiple bows of lesser magical enhancement is what kept the cheese-potential in check. Changing the rule makes it even stronger. (Until Mr. Onebow gets his one bow sundered, than complains about evil DMs raining on his fun, etc.)
(BTW, bowstrings are inelastic.)
|
|
So when upgrading the Strength rating on a composite bow, you only have to pay the difference in price between ratings?
You don't have to buy a whole new bow?
Correct. The most recent ruling, by Josh, is still the current one.
Upgrading the strength rating of a bow is treated, in PFS, the same as adding magical enhancements. You pay the difference between the current version and what you want it to be.
This may be the only exception to the standard policy where the physical quality of an item can be upgraded rather than having to be sold and repurchased as in the case of adding special materials, or upgrading to masterwork quality.
I do not see much of an outcry against the current rule, so I do not expect Hyrum/Mark to make a change to it in the upcoming v4.0 of the Guide.
|
|
I do not see much of an outcry against the current rule, so I do not expect Hyrum/Mark to make a change to it in the upcoming v4.0 of the Guide.
Wait, you mean I've been going about this all wrong? I need to recruit outcriers?
All that is required for <foo> to prevail is for <those who are opposed to foo> to do nothing......I guess it's true. :)
I do not see much of an outcry against the current rule, so I do not expect Hyrum/Mark to make a change to it in the upcoming v4.0 of the Guide.
I would like it to be explicitly included in the guide, or disallowed in general. But you might have noticed I'm in favor of explicitly stating things.
I wake!
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I always find this phenomenon fascinating.
This is onecrazyguy's 2nd post ever, and their 1st post was 2 years ago, necroing a then 5 year old thread.
So maybe 2 years from now they'll reply to a 15 year old thread? There must be a secret formula for figuring this out.