DR/Magic is the most common form of DR. DR technically gives monsters more hp since it takes away from any damage.
DR/Magic is the most common form of DR. DR technically gives monsters more hp since it takes away from any damage.
+1
DR/magic is common, but you see things like DR/+3 and other special materials often, too. I wish monks could bypass more magical necessary than just straight magic (such as /+3), but they get adamantium and lawful, so I guess I shouldn't complain.
Unless Pathfinder has changed things, there is no more DR/+3. Only DR/magic, and DR/Epic. Damage reduction that specified a specific + weapon to overcome was only in 3.0.
What Pathfinder has done, though, is to make it so that higher levels of +'s overcome material based DR. That is so that the players don't need to carry around a golf-bag of weapons - and adamantine one, a cold iron one, a silver one, etc. A single magical weapon will do.
Unless Pathfinder has changed things, there is no more DR/+3. Only DR/magic, and DR/Epic. Damage reduction that specified a specific + weapon to overcome was only in 3.0.
What Pathfinder has done, though, is to make it so that higher levels of +'s overcome material based DR. That is so that the players don't need to carry around a gold-bag of weapons - and adamantine one, a cold iron one, a silver one, etc. A single magical weapon will do.
I was unaware. That's nice to hear, as I will be a martial class soon. Where can I find this in the book?
I also think the /+ was a 3.5 thing, as the Monster Manual II or maybe III had a monster like that.
No, 3.0 only. 3.5 made them all dr/magic or DR/epic. And check page 562 of the core rulebook for that part about the higher +'s overcoming material DR. And alignment based DR too. (Monster Manual 2 was 3.0, while 3 and later were 3.5. For some reason, WotC decided not to upgrade the MM2 when they switched to 3.5)
Now that I think about it, I can't think of any DR (besides epic) that a +5 weapon in Pathfinder can't overcome. Except piercing/bludgeoning/slashing, but that depends on the base weapon, not the enchantment.
No, 3.0 only. 3.5 made them all dr/magic or DR/epic. And check page 562 of the core rulebook for that part about the higher +'s overcoming material DR. And alignment based DR too. (Monster Manual 2 was 3.0, while 3 and later were 3.5. For some reason, WotC decided not to upgrade the MM2 when they switched to 3.5)
Now that I think about it, I can't think of any DR (besides epic) that a +5 weapon in Pathfinder can't overcome. Except piercing/bludgeoning/slashing, but that depends on the base weapon, not the enchantment.
Good stuff, good stuff. Thanks for the info.
Back to topic: Overcoming DR/Magic = good.
I'd just want to echo the OP.
I've never quite understood the fuss about "counts as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction" because by the time you are encountering creatures on a regular basis with DR/magic you've already got plenty of magic weapons.
It would be one thing if, say in levels 1-3, you encountered lots and lots of monsters with DR 5/magic, and then when you get this fancy property or pick up your +1 sword you finally start to kick A, but that isn't the case. The monster database shows only 8 out of 800+ monsters that have DR/Magic in CRs 4 or below.
It comes off as being this cool feature, but the reality is that it's kind of an afterthought. You could give this feature to a level 1 monk, make his fists glow for all it mattered, and it wouldn't actually amount to much.
Monks get this for free at some level with their unarmed strikes (maybe level 6?), I figure that's what the OP is referring to.
What Pathfinder has done, though, is to make it so that higher levels of +'s overcome material based DR. That is so that the players don't need to carry around a golf-bag of weapons - and adamantine one, a cold iron one, a silver one, etc. A single magical weapon will do.
Where in the book is this stated? I want to read up on it, so I can get rid of my gold-bag of weapons.
DR/magic in itself isn't that awesome at lower levels, since there aren't a lot of things you'll encounter with it. However, it matters at later levels, and a character with the arcane strike feat can grab any weapon they can get their hands on (even without proficiency) and use it against such creatures without a +1 weapon. It has its uses.
Where in the book is this stated? I want to read up on it, so I can get rid of my gold-bag of weapons.
Page 562 of the Core Rulebook.
Page 562 of the Core Rulebook.
Where in the book is this stated? I want to read up on it, so I can get rid of my gold-bag of weapons.
Excellent, thanks.
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It comes off as being this cool feature, but the reality is that it's kind of an afterthought. You could give this feature to a level 1 monk, make his fists glow for all it mattered, and it wouldn't actually amount to much.Yep, pretty much how I feel about it.
Also, the BIGGEST value, IMO, of magic weapons is the ability to hit incorporeal creatures, NOT get through DR/Magic. Hitting incorporeal creatures is something monks cannot do. Not at level level 4, not at level 20. SO they buy an amulet of natural armor, or have brass knuckles... which goes back to what the heck is the point of this ability, especially as it is a repeated "ability" in feats and class features.
"At 4th level, ki strike allows his unarmed attacks to be treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction."
"Incorporeal (Ex) An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons,"
RAW it can be read as you say, ROI being incorporeal is the same thing as a "infinite" DR/magic and bypassed by the ki strike being magical.
The things that traditionally gets the "counts as magic for purposes of DR" are the things that can't just normally be made magic. Natural attacks, unarmed strikes, etc.
1) Magic fang gives one natural weapon or unarmed strike of the subject a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls.2) Damage reduction may be overcome by special materials, magic weapons (any weapon with a +1 or higher enhancement bonus, not counting the enhancement from masterwork quality)
Natural attacks and unarmed strikes can be made magical by magic fang.
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Natural attacks and unarmed strikes can be made magical by magic fang.
Yeah but with the innate bonuses that the classes get on them and the feats like Eldrich Claws available you don't have to spend the big pile of gold to have a dispellable Greater Magic Fang cast on your animal companion's claws or yourself. Plus Eldrich Claws makes them count as silver too I believe ((or something like that.)
because by the time you are encountering creatures on a regular basis with DR/magic you've already got plenty of magic weapons.
Exactly.
By the time you get that level, you have magic weapons. So things like "Eldritch Claws", in order to compete, need to bypass magic DR as well.
It's a matter of keeping something level-appropriate, not so much an "amazingly powerful bonus".
That doesn't make sense to me. If it were level appropriate you would actually use it and it would not be immediately invalid by your WBL.
Not every monk gets an amulet of mighty fists (certainly not by 4th level - they cost 5000gp), and not every one gets one that is +1. They can also be flaming, frost, etc.
Ki Strike is a very valuable ability - a magic weapon that cannot be disarmed, destroyed, or otherwise taken away. It was just useful yesterday in our 12th level game.
Counting as magic is occasionally pretty useful, but I agree Eldritch Claws comes a little late for say a Druid who can just cast Magic Fang/Greater anyway. It can be handy for a savage Barbarian, Ranger or Fighter though. Don't forget, dragons have DR/Magic, and you never want to be caught unprepared by one, so if you know your game will have some, this feat could be handy. You could also give Eldritch Claws directly to an Animal Companion with enough Int, or an Eidolon, but depending on the campaign and playstyle this may be more or less a waste.
In the game I've been playing, I've kept an alchemical silver dagger with my Bard and I have Arcane Strike. Little did I know I'd be fighting vampires AND devils on the same island. My combination of weapon properties was the only thing that could overcome their DR. I was outdamaging the Barbarian! I took the Versatile Weapon spell to help keep this from happening again.
Edit: I thought of a good use for this feat even on a character who has magic weapons. Let's say you're an orc with a bite attack or a Fiendish Barbarian with horns. Or both! Your main weapon is your great axe, since your bite and horns are at a -5 and don't get 1.5 strength. They also don't get multiple attacks per round, so you've pumped most of your money into the axe. But you still like the added damage from your natural weapons, and you'd like to make sure few foes can shrug them off. Invest in this one feat and save thousands on an Amulet of Mighty Fists (and thus you can keep the slot free for Natural Armor, too).
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Unless Pathfinder has changed things, there is no more DR/+3. Only DR/magic, and DR/Epic. Damage reduction that specified a specific + weapon to overcome was only in 3.0.
What Pathfinder has done, though, is to make it so that higher levels of +'s overcome material based DR. That is so that the players don't need to carry around a golf-bag of weapons - and adamantine one, a cold iron one, a silver one, etc. A single magical weapon will do.
Unless the Bestiary has been reprinted, Wererats are still DR10/silver, Stone Golems are still DR10/adamantine, and Night Hags are still DR10/cold iron and magic.
Magic weapons only obviate alignment, special-materials or other DR types if the monster is has a vulnerability to magic (p299).
(To eliminate DR types would instantly nerf special-materials.)
And what's wrong with a golf-bag of weapons? Look at the artwork -- all the high-BAB classes are festooned like Christmas trees. This game would be boring if it didn't take any thought at all other than piling money into one weapon.
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Unless Pathfinder has changed things, there is no more DR/+3. Only DR/magic, and DR/Epic. Damage reduction that specified a specific + weapon to overcome was only in 3.0.
What Pathfinder has done, though, is to make it so that higher levels of +'s overcome material based DR. That is so that the players don't need to carry around a golf-bag of weapons - and adamantine one, a cold iron one, a silver one, etc. A single magical weapon will do.
Unless the Bestiary has been reprinted, Wererats are still DR10/silver, Stone Golems are still DR10/adamantine, and Night Hags are still DR10/cold iron and magic.
Magic weapons only obviate alignment, special-materials or other DR types if the monster is has a vulnerability to magic (p299).
(To eliminate DR types would instantly nerf special-materials.)
And what's wrong with a golf-bag of weapons? Look at the artwork -- all the melee classes are festooned like Christmas trees. This game would be boring if it didn't take any thought at all other than piling money into one weapon.
From the Core Rulebook:
Weapons with an enhancement bonus of +3 or greater can ignore some types of damage reduction, regardless of their actual material or alignment. The following table shows what type of enhancement bonus is needed to overcome some common types of damage reduction.
DR Type Weapon Enhancement Bonus Equivalent
cold iron/silver +3
adamantine* +4
alignment-based +5
Unless Pathfinder has changed things, there is no more DR/+3. Only DR/magic, and DR/Epic. Damage reduction that specified a specific + weapon to overcome was only in 3.0.
What Pathfinder has done, though, is to make it so that higher levels of +'s overcome material based DR. That is so that the players don't need to carry around a golf-bag of weapons - and adamantine one, a cold iron one, a silver one, etc. A single magical weapon will do.
Unless the Bestiary has been reprinted, Wererats are still DR10/silver, Stone Golems are still DR10/adamantine, and Night Hags are still DR10/cold iron and magic.
Magic weapons only obviate alignment, special-materials or other DR types if the monster is has a vulnerability to magic (p299).
(To eliminate DR types would instantly nerf special-materials.)
And what's wrong with a golf-bag of weapons? Look at the artwork -- all the melee classes are festooned like Christmas trees. This game would be boring if it didn't take any thought at all other than piling money into one weapon.
Magic weapon do bypass special materials eventually. I think it takes +4 weapons though.
Overcoming DR: Damage reduction may be overcome by special materials, magic weapons (any weapon with a +1 or higher enhancement bonus, not counting the enhancement from masterwork quality), certain types of weapons (such as slashing or bludgeoning), and weapons imbued with an alignment.
Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon (in addition to any alignment it may already have).
Weapons with an enhancement bonus of +3 or greater can ignore some types of damage reduction, regardless of their actual material or alignment. The following table shows what type of enhancement bonus is needed to overcome some common types of damage reduction.
Click here and search for overcoming DR.
PS:I could not find your quote by the way. What chapter is it in?
PS2: It starts with +3 weapons. I was wrong.
Unless Pathfinder has changed things, there is no more DR/+3. Only DR/magic, and DR/Epic. Damage reduction that specified a specific + weapon to overcome was only in 3.0.
What Pathfinder has done, though, is to make it so that higher levels of +'s overcome material based DR. That is so that the players don't need to carry around a golf-bag of weapons - and adamantine one, a cold iron one, a silver one, etc. A single magical weapon will do.
Unless the Bestiary has been reprinted, Wererats are still DR10/silver, Stone Golems are still DR10/adamantine, and Night Hags are still DR10/cold iron and magic.
Magic weapons only obviate alignment, special-materials or other DR types if the monster is has a vulnerability to magic (p299).
(To eliminate DR types would instantly nerf special-materials.)
And what's wrong with a golf-bag of weapons? Look at the artwork -- all the melee classes are festooned like Christmas trees. This game would be boring if it didn't take any thought at all other than piling money into one weapon.
From the Core Rulebook:
Weapons with an enhancement bonus of +3 or greater can ignore some types of damage reduction, regardless of their actual material or alignment. The following table shows what type of enhancement bonus is needed to overcome some common types of damage reduction.
DR Type Weapon Enhancement Bonus Equivalent
cold iron/silver +3
adamantine* +4
alignment-based +5
Ninja'd by 1 minute.
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<nod> I stand mostly corrected. That sneaky little asterisk after adamantine leads to: "* Note that this does not give the ability to ignore hardness, like an actual adamantine weapon does".
In the end, cold-iron is so cheap that you'd have to be an idiot to enchant a non-CI metal weapon, and silversheen comes out of a tube. +4 and +5 weapons are expensive, or require the presence of a 13th/17th-level straight-class caster ally to buff a lesser weapon with GMW+4/+5.
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<nod> I stand mostly corrected. That sneaky little asterisk after adamantine leads to: "* Note that this does not give the ability to ignore hardness, like an actual adamantine weapon does".
In the end, cold-iron is so cheap that you'd have to be an idiot to enchant a non-CI metal weapon, and silversheen comes out of a tube. +4 and +5 weapons are expensive, or require the presence of a 13th/17th-level straight-class caster ally to buff a lesser weapon with GMW+4/+5.
Worth starting a thread to do a FAQ about that.
I would not allow the greater magic weapon to bypass the other requirements beside magic. It is a too easy and cheap way to do that.Note the + bonus allow it bypass DR but not stop fast healing/regeneration.
Edit: thanks Wraith, I should have checked.
This bonus does not allow a weapon to bypass damage reduction aside from magic.
edit: Link
I've never quite understood the fuss about "counts as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction" because by the time you are encountering creatures on a regular basis with DR/magic you've already got plenty of magic weapons.
What if you don't fight with weapons?
Sure, there are other things that can take care of this, like magic weapon/fang and amulets of mighty fists, but they might not be available/desired, either.
Sure, a feat that lets you overcome DR/Magic (and strike incorporeal stuff) and /Silver isn't the overpowered be all end all of feats, it's a niche feat, but for those who don't want the alternatives, it's nice.
Not every group has the necessary spellcasters to use those spells (and sometimes the spellcasters will not learn or prepare those spells), and not every GM/campaign allows for free access to whatever magic items you want.
In the end, cold-iron is so cheap that you'd have to be an idiot to enchant a non-CI metal weapon
I'm an idiot, then? Just because I don't want to pay 4000+ instead of 2000+ for a +1 weapon just to get something that becomes obsolete as soon as the weapon is upgraded to +3?
You have really crappy definitions of things like "idiot".
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<Plomp!> ... Antimagic Field
Now the 20,000gp weapon you saved 10% on (to become 18,000gp raw +3 bonus) works no better than a 300gp piece of crap versus that demon sorc. It's an even worse feeling if you're nearing Epic and starting to max out your weapons.
-- There are few cash/level windows in which it's prudent to skimp on something like this which will later get your butt chewed. At high level you're swimming in money and 2000 is pocket-change; at low-level you can't afford the +3 upgrade anyway without sacrificing three or four other useful trinkets.
<Plomp!> ... Antimagic Field
Now the 20,000gp weapon you saved 10% on (to become 18,000gp raw +3 bonus) works no better than a 300gp piece of crap versus that demon sorc.
You could still save about 2000 gp by enchanting a normal steel weapon and getting a cold iron secondary weapon for the few instances when the enchantment is negated.
As a GM, DR/MAGIC is the most useless power in the book. It's supposed to be factored into the creature's CR, and make it more powerful.
In my experience, it's useless. Nothing that has it gets encountered prior to magic items being assumed by the game with WBL. It's sort of like saying "Here's a bullet proof vest, it makes you stronger" when every gun you run up against has APDS (Armor Piercing, Discarding Sabot) rounds in it, which ignore the vest.
If I were to pick a DR I'd have as a monster, I'd want DR/-- or DR/<damage type> because magical weapons don't bypass either. And I'd probably want DR/Piercing to be honest, as big nasty fighters prefer slashing, followed by bludgeoning. Yeah, I might not like the TWF dual rapier wielding rogues, but I can munch on them while the fighters are dulling their swords on my DR.
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I remember a party of tough, sure-they-were-optimized 2nd and 3rd-level characters playing "up" to APL4 in Living Greyhawk getting spanked by a pair of stupid gargoyles because nobody had thought to own a Magic Weapon scroll and none of the casters had memorized it.
DR/magic also messes with low/mid-level archers (who often delay obtaining a fully magic composite bow while waiting for a STR bump) as they're usually not close enough to see if their bales of MW arrows are doing less damage than they think they should (and hence switch to the spendy magic ones they're saving), and usually don't have enough brains to make an appropriate Knowledge check anyway.
<Plomp!> ... Antimagic Field
Now the 20,000gp weapon you saved 10% on (to become 18,000gp raw +3 bonus) works no better than a 300gp piece of crap versus that demon sorc.
That's okay. I'd rather have the 2000 gil 99.999999% of the time (low estimate) than blow money on very, very rare contingencies.
Beyond what Blave said (the part where you can get a cheap cold iron weapon for less money and use that in case you actually have to fight something with DR/cold iron in an antimagic field), I'm not too afraid for this situation. We're talking about something with enough magic power to cast antimagic field. Whatever that is will lose more power because of the field than I will because of the weapon.
And for the 10+ levels before this can even become an issue (before that time, any enemy that will show up using antimagic fields will easily overpower me with or without cold iron), the 2000 gp will be really handy. Especially in early levels, where we are talking about the difference between having a non-magical cold iron weapon or a magic steel weapon, because you can't afford to blow over 4000gp on a weapon, but 2300something is possible.
It's an even worse feeling if you're nearing Epic and starting to max out your weapons.
Actually, most enemies will be even worse off then - them losing that much more power because they're spellcasters and I keeping so much because I'm a warrior and most of what I get is not magical at all.
There are few cash/level windows in which it's prudent to skimp on something like this which will later get your butt chewed.
At high level you're swimming in money and 2000 is pocket-change
The back-up weapon for when this does happen is even less of a problem, then.
at low-level you can't afford the +3 upgrade anyway without sacrificing three or four other useful trinkets.
At low-level you can't afford the +1 enhancement on a cold iron weapon. And DR/magic is a lot more numerous than /cold iron. And even if you do encounter an enemy with DR/cold iron, the magic weapon will help with its damage bonus.
And paying only half for your weapon early on sure is helpful, as that means more of those nice trinkets you were talking about.
Regarding whether monk's ki strike (magic) can hit incorporeal creatures: James Jacobs had this to say:
I would say that yes, ki strike would let you hit incorporeal ghosts. You get the power at about the point weapon-using characters would have magic weapons anyway; the point of the power is to let monks play along when so many creatures have DR/magic. No reason not to extend that to incorporeal as well.
As a GM, DR/MAGIC is the most useless power in the book. It's supposed to be factored into the creature's CR, and make it more powerful.
In my experience, it's useless. Nothing that has it gets encountered prior to magic items being assumed by the game with WBL. It's sort of like saying "Here's a bullet proof vest, it makes you stronger" when every gun you run up against has APDS (Armor Piercing, Discarding Sabot) rounds in it, which ignore the vest.
I doubt DR/magic counts for much in a creature's CR past very low levels.
But if you shift perspective and look at the creatures with DR/magic in the campaign as a whole, it's a very useful power. A creature like that has little to worry about from the mundane NPCs that make up the bulk of the campaign's population. That it's a weak power against PCs underlines just how exceptional the PCs are.
That's a good point you mention Bill Dunn
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I'd just want to echo the OP.
I've never quite understood the fuss about "counts as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction" because by the time you are encountering creatures on a regular basis with DR/magic you've already got plenty of magic weapons.
It would be one thing if, say in levels 1-3, you encountered lots and lots of monsters with DR 5/magic, and then when you get this fancy property or pick up your +1 sword you finally start to kick A, but that isn't the case. The monster database shows only 8 out of 800+ monsters that have DR/Magic in CRs 4 or below.
It comes off as being this cool feature, but the reality is that it's kind of an afterthought. You could give this feature to a level 1 monk, make his fists glow for all it mattered, and it wouldn't actually amount to much.
For one, it's an amazing feat for animal companions, eidolons, and mounts to take; basically any sort of combat-oriented cohort that can't wield weapons will want this. It also allows Monks to overcome DR/Magic on all of their attacks, without having to spend Ki points or buy an AoMF.
It also makes non-monk unarmed combatants more viable, especially fighters, who could later retrain it once they can afford a nice AoMF. Of course, it's a pretty small niche, but it's nice to be able to do it and not be completely and utterly useless against something with DR/Magic.
Unless Pathfinder has changed things, there is no more DR/+3. Only DR/magic, and DR/Epic. Damage reduction that specified a specific + weapon to overcome was only in 3.0.
What Pathfinder has done, though, is to make it so that higher levels of +'s overcome material based DR. That is so that the players don't need to carry around a gold-bag of weapons - and adamantine one, a cold iron one, a silver one, etc. A single magical weapon will do.
I was unaware. That's nice to hear, as I will be a martial class soon. Where can I find this in the book?
I also think the /+ was a 3.5 thing, as the Monster Manual II or maybe III had a monster like that.
I know this was mostly cleared up already, I just wanted to point out that Monster Manual II (and Fiend Folio) are 3.0 books that were never reprinted for 3.5. Somewhere on wizards site there was a 3.5 update booklet that changed the DRs for those monsters to DR/material or DR/alignment. I went through my books with a pen and marked the new DRs as those are the only real changes needed to make them 3.5.
I'd most likely take Eldritch Claws if I would play say an Half-Orc Inquisitor because I'd have te Toothy racial trait. That little 1d4 extra attack can actualy add up quickly if you add Precise Strike, Divine Favor, Judgement and other abilities. Also, you could cover Cold Iron DR with your weapon and still have something to hurt Silver or Magic DR creatures.
The Toothy Trait is also quite good for half-orc paladins or rogues. More attacks always mean more chances to deliver smite or sneak damage. And not needing to worry about at least 3 kinds of DR (Magic, Silver and Piercing) is always a plus in my book and worth spending a feat.
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I have to admit that I've never run into it.
I've run into it as low as 6th level (also "chaos magic" zones where spells are wildly unpredictable and sometimes turn on you, or the wrong spell is cast, or things just explode) -- and I frankly like it because it actively discourages one-trick-pony min-maxing and encourages flexible multiclassing. <Queue the threads about the archers who whine about water adventures, or the min-maxed barbarian who lost his sword to a rust-monster in the 1st encounter and didn't have so much as a back-up pair of boot-laces to use as a garrote.>
My wizards always carry several ordinary melee and ranged weapons, and builds often contain one melee class dip at or near 1st level.
"Cricky -- 'Antimagic' again??? *Sigh* Oh, very well then...."
<draw greatsword, shake off cobwebs, Rage! STR:10>14! Power Attack!>
That's okay. I'd rather have the 2000 gil 99.999999% of the time (low estimate) than blow money on very, very rare contingencies.You've been a lucky fella to run into it a lot less than I have.
Yeah. Lucky us. Too many pushover fights would bore us to tears.
The first one would be fun, I guess: Enemy drops the A-Bomb, we waste a whole round laughing at him, and then go to town, the warriors beating all kinds of hell out of him while the spellcasters stay out of range and do smart stuff with their magic to circumvent the field.
Actually, I wish some GM would start to use the spell, just for the heck of it. Would give us an excuse (and the opportunity) to try our growing arrow plan: You fell a relatively straight tree, remove the branches, sharpen one end, and then polymorph it into an arrow. Shoot arrow at enemy in anti-magic field. SURPRISE!
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I think he's talking about 'naturally occuring' antimagic fields as opposed to 'AMF-casting enemies'. And of course, closet troll monsters find these 'natural' phenomena and lie in wait for prey. So when Highly Magic Party blunders into the field and their magical protections fail, Closet Troll With The +20 Natural Armor jumps out to nom on their faces.
Of course, 'naturally occuring AMFs' are right there with 'Rocks Fall' on my list of DM Dickery.
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I think he's talking about 'naturally occuring' antimagic fields as opposed to 'AMF-casting enemies'. And of course, closet troll monsters find these 'natural' phenomena and lie in wait for prey. So when Highly Magic Party blunders into the field and their magical protections fail, Closet Troll With The +20 Natural Armor jumps out to nom on their faces.
Of course, 'naturally occuring AMFs' are right there with 'Rocks Fall' on my list of DM Dickery.
If that was the norm for Living Greyhawk, then I'm rather happy that the trend was not carried over to Pathfinder Society.
I guess that Mike will get used to the new paradigm :)
My wizards always carry several ordinary melee and ranged weapons, and builds often contain one melee class dip at or near 1st level.
Most of my casters are lucky to be able to carry one weapon each of ranged and melee and stay under a light load. Do you not play with encumbrance rules?
My wizards always carry several ordinary melee and ranged weapons, and builds often contain one melee class dip at or near 1st level.Most of my casters are lucky to be able to carry one weapon each of ranged and melee and stay under a light load. Do you not play with encumbrance rules?
I've never seen a wizard or sorcerer anywhere close to their limit, unless they dumped STR down to 5 or so. They don't have armor or shield, so all they carry is clothes, weapon, pouch, and backpack. Less than 15 lbs of equipment generally.
I've never seen a wizard or sorcerer anywhere close to their limit, unless they dumped STR down to 5 or so. They don't have armor or shield, so all they carry is clothes, weapon, pouch, and backpack. Less than 15 lbs of equipment generally.My wizards always carry several ordinary melee and ranged weapons, and builds often contain one melee class dip at or near 1st level.Most of my casters are lucky to be able to carry one weapon each of ranged and melee and stay under a light load. Do you not play with encumbrance rules?
Fair enough. I play more clerics and bards than wizards so include some armor in the equation, and they're mostly halflings or gnomes with 8 Str (no dump, but no points spent there, either). Small characters only get 3/4 of the carrying capacity of a Medium PC with the same Str, too. 19.5 pounds fills up pretty quickly with just armor, one ranged & one melee weapon.
My anecdotal evidence is that most people who handwave encumbrance are shocked by how over the limit they are if they sit down and add it all up.