Good Evening all
I have an idea for a Science fantasy campaign,something to like star wars meets star ocean, and am interested in whether pathfinder would be able to support such a genre. Obviously I would have to both build the galaxy setting, and create house rules for the various aspects of the futuristic technology(space travel, beam weapons, lasers,etc). I have no real time frame to build the setting in, so I have "all the time in the world." I'm just curious if it would be worthy venture to use pathfinder, or would it be better to use a different system? Also any ideas or contributions that would help with this would be greatly appreciated
Actually, with a Mars-analogue based on Burroughs' Barsoom and a Venus analogue with psionics and jungle-dwellers, you can not only use Pathfinder, but even Golarion's solar-system, if you like.
I didn't know golarion was in a solar system. Do you think pathfinder can handle futuristic play?
it depends how futuristic you want you play. there are suggestions fir humerus that can likely be used fir some science fantasy but they are really loose guidelines.
but basically a laser gun is a gun shaped object that does scorching ray with charges ( ie batteries) wether these are one shot or recharge like a wand is up to you. magic and science follow the same guidelines I'n the behind the scenes crunch.
I think they are good rules for one of bad guys or freaky out of lef field module length stories but might break under a full game.
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Actually, with a Mars-analogue based on Burroughs' Barsoom and a Venus analogue with psionics and jungle-dwellers, you can not only use Pathfinder, but even Golarion's solar-system, if you like.I didn't know golarion was in a solar system. Do you think pathfinder can handle futuristic play?
I think so, though it'll need work and depend on what kind of tone and technology you want in your game.
Ray guns cobbled together from various ray spells and such could be easy enough, though I have to wonder how that would balance out with something like the Gunslinger, which may or may not even work out for such a campaign.
Still, simply reflavoring a lot of items, monsters, and other mechanics can go a long way towards setting the scene. It can get the ball rolling at least.
There's a number of aliens in the two Bestiaries already, but you may want to consider changing how creature type classifications work or are handed out in your game. For example, aberration tends to tag anything "alien" enough. But if you want to run a game with multiple sapient and possibly playable alien races(something like the Hanar from Mass Effect for example), that approach probably needs to be retired in favor of something else.
(in addition to the solar system and all of its varied planets, there's also Numeria. :) )
Also, if your name is a Chrono Cross reference, that was my favorite character from the game. :)
it depends how futuristic you want you play. there are suggestions fir humerus that can likely be used fir some science fantasy but they are really loose guidelines.
but basically a laser gun is a gun shaped object that does scorching ray with charges ( ie batteries) wether these are one shot or recharge like a wand is up to you. magic and science follow the same guidelines I'n the behind the scenes crunch.
I think they are good rules for one of bad guys or freaky out of lef field module length stories but might break under a full game.
For lasers I had planned to use repeating crossbows as a base. Up the damage, and put some thought into semiauto and fullauto modes. Ammunition would be handled very similar to the way it is now.
Actually, with a Mars-analogue based on Burroughs' Barsoom and a Venus analogue with psionics and jungle-dwellers, you can not only use Pathfinder, but even Golarion's solar-system, if you like.I didn't know golarion was in a solar system. Do you think pathfinder can handle futuristic play?I think so, though it'll need work and depend on what kind of tone and technology you want in your game.
Ray guns cobbled together from various ray spells and such could be easy enough, though I have to wonder how that would balance out with something like the Gunslinger, which may or may not even work out for such a campaign.
Still, simply reflavoring a lot of items, monsters, and other mechanics can go a long way towards setting the scene. It can get the ball rolling at least.
There's a number of aliens in the two Bestiaries already, but you may want to consider changing how creature type classifications work or are handed out in your game. For example, aberration tends to tag anything "alien" enough. But if you want to run a game with multiple sapient and possibly playable alien races(something like the Hanar from Mass Effect for example), that approach probably needs to be retired in favor of something else.
(in addition to the solar system and all of its varied planets, there's also Numeria. :) )
Also, if your name is a Chrono Cross reference, that was my favorite character from the game. :)
I honestly had hoped to have gunslinger work, it would be a good representation of a smuggler,bounty hunter, or soldier.
Many futuristic RPGs support stuff like automatic weapons and pinning, but it shouldn't be too hard to implement (e.g. via extremer versions of the rapid shot feat for salvos and will saves against pinning).
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You might also want to check out Super Genius Games' Anachonistic Adventurers line. Although it's primaily designed to bring modern day heroes into Pathfinder, it could provide some ideas. At present there's only one suppliment in the line, the Enforcer (fighter equivalent) but others will be following.
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Y'know, Strategists and Tacticians might be helpful for setting the foundation for cybernetic limbs and such.
And if you're using "laser swords" the Sever combat maneuver might just work perfectly as written, if one says it cauterizes the wound(depending on how you abstract hp of course...)
Psionics Unleashed may be worht a look as well.
Wow so that's are resounding yes, for futuristic pathfinder. Thank you everyone. What about space travel, ships, and space combat any suggestion?
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100% yes!
Ray guns = Longbows / Crossbows. Use the same stats / proficiencies & call em something different.
"Vibrosword" = regular sword
"Laser sword/lightsaber" = magic sword
"Wizard" = "Energy Manipulator"
"Cleric" = "Mystic"
everything else will simply fall into place with characterization / personality.
For space travel, I would recommend going easy on the math/science aspect. After all, do you really want huge, slow, can't see anything until a torpedo blows you up scenes? Or do you want swashbuckling action adventure with alien pirates boarding the PC's craft, and exchanges of blaster fire and melee?
If so, I would look at the Game Mastery Guide for Ship-to-Ship combat rules, and extrapolate a bit for 3d (heck, 4d since you're likely to be using huge amounts of space/time in between actions) movement.
I would definitely check out Psionics Unleashed . The whole "mind power" and "energy swords" works fantastic with this kind of setting.
Finally, if you want to keep strange and alien races, but maintain parity amongst the current PC races, just re-name & re-skin the current sets.
Elves are technically aliens to Golarion already, so they fit. Plus, you can really push the whole Good Alien (Elf/Vulcan) and Bad Alien (Drow/Romulan) easily enough.
Dwarves can easily become another 20' base speed, see-in-the dark species.
Gnomes are freaks of nature who manipulate illusion magic & talk to animals already.
There is a LOT of ground you can cover with simple renaming & re-envisioning of the current rules.
Some useful threads to ponder:
Modern Hero, a modern/post modern PF compatible setting/ruleset
Finally, a crazy mechanical construct to throw at your PCs Ultra-Mecha-Scorpion (for image, click HERE)
100% yes!
Ray guns = Longbows / Crossbows. Use the same stats / proficiencies & call em something different.
"Vibrosword" = regular sword
"Laser sword/lightsaber" = magic sword
"Wizard" = "Energy Manipulator"
"Cleric" = "Mystic"
everything else will simply fall into place with characterization / personality.
For space travel, I would recommend going easy on the math/science aspect. After all, do you really want huge, slow, can't see anything until a torpedo blows you up scenes? Or do you want swashbuckling action adventure with alien pirates boarding the PC's craft, and exchanges of blaster fire and melee?
If so, I would look at the Game Mastery Guide for Ship-to-Ship combat rules, and extrapolate a bit for 3d (heck, 4d since you're likely to be using huge amounts of space/time in between actions) movement.
I would definitely check out Psionics Unleashed . The whole "mind power" and "energy swords" works fantastic with this kind of setting.
Finally, if you want to keep strange and alien races, but maintain parity amongst the current PC races, just re-name & re-skin the current sets.
Elves are technically aliens to Golarion already, so they fit. Plus, you can really push the whole Good Alien (Elf/Vulcan) and Bad Alien (Drow/Romulan) easily enough.
Dwarves can easily become another 20' base speed, see-in-the dark species.
Gnomes are freaks of nature who manipulate illusion magic & talk to animals already.
There is a LOT of ground you can cover with simple renaming & re-envisioning of the current rules.
Some useful threads to ponder:
Modern Hero, a modern/post modern PF compatible setting/ruleset
Finally, a crazy...
Ya reskining things sure makes things easier, and changing as little as possible keeps things familiar but new for the players. I'm a big believer that fun comes before realism, so math-lite for sure. good stuff here thanks
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Ray guns = Longbows / Crossbows.Ray guns = wands.
Sure, of you want to limit who uses them, or want to keep all weapons listed as is.
Personally, I prefer everyone packing a blaster unless there's some good reason not to (religious differences/only use lightsabers/etc.)
But if you have, say, "blaster rifles" as 1d8, 2-handed, range 110 , 20x3, and cost 100gp +100gp/ +1 str bonus, then anyone in the PF Future game that could use a longbow can use it equally well.
I like guns in fantasy RPG a lot, and this has worked very well at my table.
Works until you end up with an automatic weapon. PF doesn't have rules for that, or other firearms-specific stuff - but you *can* find them in SGG's Anachronistic Adventurer, Avalon's Infinite Futures, and GRC's Modern Path.
As for patterning "ray-guns" on ray spells - do you really want your blaster doing a touch-attack? That and they'd be mighty short-ranged.
I haven't looked at the ship to ship rules - my son says they are very simple/simplistic, more of a system-skeleton. Might be something to build from, tho.
(Wand-ray-gun approach might make an interesting 50's-era setting...)
Why would a blaster not make touch attacks? In PF, flint-lock muskets make touch attacks within the first range increment.
Wow, I had no idea.
I can see some really cheesy "movie modules" coming...
A few snippets from my d20 Star Wars - 3E crossover.
Blasters dealt Red magic missiles that were resolved as Ranged Touch Attacks. I believe I allowed anyone with Crossbow Proficiency to use them without issue.
Blaster Pistol - 2 MMs with each shot
heavy blaster pistol - 3 MMs with each shot
Light Repeating blaster - 3 MMs with each shot that targeted a a 10foot x 10foot area. Half damage on a miss, normal on a hit.
Heavy Repeating Blaster - As light repeating blaster, except 5 MMs instead of 3.
Most grenades resolved as listed, except Thermal Detonators.
These dealt 3d6 Constitution damage upon initial explosion and then dealt 1d6 Constitution damage every other round for one minute. Fortitude save halved the damage.
Lightsabers were basically the Soulknife weapon, that gained the Brilliant Energy Weapon effect against all material objects and had the Ghost Touch effect as well.
All in technology can be done using spells and magic in general as a basis for the SUPER-SCIENCE of the technology.
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For god's sake, couldn;t you just have played as it is?
Because it may not exactly work as science-fantasy like the OP wants without adjustment.
Being able to monkey around with the rules is a feature of the game, not a crime.
Paizo themselves said as much, with a nod to this specific genre, in the Gamemastery Guide.
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I was referring to the Gendo's post, not the OP's post. I sometimes inject some technology in my games, usually a steampunkish theme, but i like to make new rules based on existing ones, not bend the system around so that weapons shoot ray spells and cetera, but that's just me.
EDIT: Am i using the ' symbol wrong? The spelling seems to think so. English is not my primary language, so i'd like some input. Sorry for the offtopic.
I think pathfinder can handle it but there is definately a fair amount of work to do. In fact there is a 'metal dungeon' concept in golarion itself, which is a downed alient spacecraft. I dont remember the name off hand, but I bet when that area gets fleshed out it will have a lot of goodies to help with this kind of game.
There are also 3PP stuff that can help. As somen said strategists and tacticians has some things to help. Also, Super genius games just put out the first in a line of products for modern characters in fantasy adventures the enforcer. That would probably help give you a baseline for some science fantasy concepts.
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I was referring to the Gendo's post, not the OP's post. I sometimes inject some technology in my games, usually a steampunkish theme, but i like to make new rules based on existing ones, not bend the system around so that weapons shoot ray spells and cetera, but that's just me.
EDIT: Am i using the ' symbol wrong? The spelling seems to think so. English is not my primary language, so i'd like some input. Sorry for the offtopic.
Offtopic
Does Pathfinder have built-in support for a planet-hopping type game? Not especially. You'll have to do a lot of custom work, or at the very least "re-skinning" to achieve the desired result. A lot of the economic assumptions in Pathfinder might give you trouble, but if you're looking to emulate a JRPG then perhaps the whole buy/sell magic equipment thing will serve your needs.
Is the Pathfinder system well-suited to such a game? Maybe. The thing I wish more people would consider about Pathfinder is that it is a game about superheroism. The Core Rulebook is little more than a gallery of super-powers, for both "mortals" (fighters, rogues) and "superhumans" (everyone else). Without direct intervention in the form of sweeping house-rules, you need to expect that your sessions will play out like a "team super-hero comic" after 6th level. If that sounds appealing, then Pathfinder-unmodified is the game you want.
If "superhero team" is not your vibe, I recommend looking into House Rules like "E6/Epic 6", or find a game that suits your genre more closely. There are lots of games out there, and Pathfinder RPG is at its best when you are not fighting it to get the genre you want. It may be that an RPG that is a little more "anime-inspred" would better lend itself to the JRPG feel.
Memorize this rule, use it, and rest assured that you are using better English than many native speakers who screw this one up!
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As for patterning "ray-guns" on ray spells - do you really want your blaster doing a touch-attack?Why would a blaster not make touch attacks? In PF, flint-lock muskets make touch attacks within the first range increment.
yeah...not so thrilled with the gun rules as written currently.
not that they're terrible, but just not a fan.
I much prefer my method of Guns = Bows, just looking differently. YMMV
I used a Pathfinder/D20 Modern mash-up for my Star Trek game last year, and it worked quite well. Both D20 Future and Star Wars D20 have starship combat rules. The benefit of Future's is that they're open gaming content (thus freely available); the drawback is a lot of people don't really care for Future's space combat. I find it adequate for most situations.
Ok, geez. Now you people got me thinking about how wands as ray-guns (or any magic item morphed into technology) could work.
First hurdle: wands are cheap, charges are expensive; ray-guns are expensive, power-cells are cheap - so the two are flipped opposite.
Second hurdle: wand power increases per caster level, adding to range and sometimes adding missiles/rays/etc. How will/should these increases carry over?
Third hurdle: metamagic feats - but I suspect this hurdle will evaporate as the first two are overcome.
1. What type of science fantasy are you after? Space opera, pulp science fantasy such as Gor or the Barsoom novels, or Post apocalyptic fantasy like Fallout 3, the Destroyer, etc? Dragonstar by FFG is an excellent mash-up of fantasy and sci-fi for the d20 system. How advanced do you want your technology? Modern day, space travel, FTL based systems, heavy energy weapons, chainswords, etc?
2. Recommendations for both rules, equipment, and difference-Don't make rayguns equivalent to magic wands with power cells, repair DCs for recharge, etc. That way lies major rules problems, especially if PCs start using various power systems to recharge equipment.
Instead, use d20 modern/future rules for laser weaponry, power sources, etc, and drop magic as another force. Add in a feat allowing all Pathfinder classes to use technology (all characters made in the science fantasy setting get this free), and you're pretty much set. D20 future tech has an excellent set of rules for magical/fantastical cybernetics, mecha, etc, etc. Or try Dragonmech for another idea.
Wow thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I'd like to give some more context to the setting. I'm working more to a Space opera game. Several large factions control most to the known space and sectors and are warring for control. The PC's would be thrown in the middle of this great conflict and would ultimately determined the fate of the galaxy. Standard stuff i know, but I've never gotten a chance to run this kind of game and am thinking to stick to the basics. As far as technology is concern, warp-drives are common and travel between the sector of space manageable(although it does take a few days). supernatural abilities like magic boil down to two basic types, Runic Mathematics(magic) and "The Will"(psionics). Not sure what I want to do with divine yet, but im thinking of dropping magical healing altogether,except for a few cases, as i want death and injury to be a very real thing for my players. This is all very early on but its what I've brainstormed so far. As a note ill be using d20 future/star wars saga,and psionics unleashed as references.
Yum...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/msrd
I honestly wouldn't worry about balance with guns. Once you start going Science mundane equipment starts getting screwy and the line between magical gear.
A few excuses as to why there are more swords then guns.
1) Destructive guns inside pressurized ships = bad, very very bad. While you likely won't damage an armored outer hull, you could damage any number systems as the shot passes through lighter internal walls. You don't want to be the jerk who punctures a waste disposal line during a fire fight. :p
2) Ship boarding means fighting in narrow, short corridors... kind like dungeons :D... thus reducing the range advantage of firearms.
3) Ships are expensive, people are not. This goes to #1, guns on ships = collateral damage = not good. People can be affordable losses lost to hand to hand combat, ship parts cannot be risked to gun fire.
4) Social taboos against firearms.
5) Artificial gravity mucks up personal scale laser weapons over distance (ranges greater the 5 to 10 feet from emission).
I'll stop, those are getting fairly flimsy.
I was going back over the purchase DCs even assuming 10 GP to 1 Dollar a 2d8 damage laser pistol would only be 84 GP, throw in another 6.3 for a 50 shot power pack.
I found this fun Log formula that Achan hiArusa posted over on ENWorld
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/300453-purchase-dc-nati onal-debt.html
It's darn close if you do some rounding but it doesn't exactly follow the rather repetitious non-forumalic pattern in the actual book.
Use .... 10^ ( ("Purchase DC" + 6.3440017626864) /7.9781468073465 ) to get the USD cost. Then divide by 10 to get a conversion value to GP... some folks say 2, I think Wizards officially said 20.
If you use a spreadsheet program replace "Purchase DC" with the Cell reference for the purchase DC. Have fun.