In addition, there actually is mention of monstrous player characters in the Core Rulebook. I don't have the book on me, but I'll look it up later.
Page 406 (in the Gamemastering section) has the box of "Alternative Races" with the various monster races.
Imo kobolds were always the underdogs of the D&D world.
+1
In AD&D Kobolds were the weakest monster in the game. Below goblins, below giant centepedes, even Giant Rats were worth more xp (because they had a %5 chance of disease).
That is the whole point of Kobolds - they are the original underdog of D&D. It's great that tradition has been carried through to Pathfinder, and they're great; not despite their disadvatages, they're great because of them. A reason to play a kobold as a PC or use them as a DM is the challenge - to make the scoffable viable using what abilities they have in the cleverest possible way.
100% Kobold campaign ftw!
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OR you can ask your DM if you can play one. Why is this important? Because the DM will have the ultimate say with what is and is not available to players when they generate their characters.Please pass this information to anyone else you know.
Agreed and seconded.
Just because some DMs disallow mosnter races does not mean everyone should disallow them.
100% Kobold campaign ftw!
I am entertained by this idea. :D
100% Kobold campaign ftw!I am entertained by this idea. :D
Would it be like that awesome PaizoCon game I heard about last year?
What's important to remember is that while kobolds are not all that smart, they are orderly, and come across as a lot more civilized than goblins (whether this be because goblins are NE or the Charisma difference). I generally play them as abnormally lawful. They're like dwarves (*twitch*)but without the moral 'contradictions'.
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What's important to remember is that while kobolds are not all that smart,
Bear in mind that they are as smart as dwarves, gnomes and halflings (and any human that didn't put his +2 bonus into Intelligence).
In Tucker's Kobold discussions, someone always pipes up how unrealistic it is that a kobold could use tactics worthy of Sun Tzu, when, in fact, a kobolds is about as likely to have a Sun Tzu somewhere in their population / history as humanity was...
What's important to remember is that while kobolds are not all that smart,Bear in mind that they are as smart as dwarves, gnomes and halflings (and any human that didn't put his +2 bonus into Intelligence).
In Tucker's Kobold discussions, someone always pipes up how unrealistic it is that a kobold could use tactics worthy of Sun Tzu, when, in fact, a kobolds is about as likely to have a Sun Tzu somewhere in their population / history as humanity was...
Gah! That sentence was very poorly worded. By 'not all that smart' I meant 'no smarter than the average human'.
Because when you roll a kobold you've just turned on HARD MODE.
100% Kobold campaign ftw!I am entertained by this idea. :D
+3
Because they are one of the few monster races with fanboys
Pun Pun won me over to the dark side long ago in an edition not so far away.
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Is it my imagination, or were Kobolts ever "dog like"?. I seem to remember they used to be like well little Anthropomorphic Yippie Chihuahuas wielding kitchen knives. When did the scales and dragon fluff come in? the first edition monster manuel? or were they always scaly? I do think they were always yippie.
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3rd-level Kobold FighterAC 33
base 10, plus
+3 natural armor
+2 dodge
+1 size
+2 Dex
+9 +1 full plate armor
+6 +1 tower shieldFeats
Dodge
Improved Natural Armor x2
Shield Focus** spoiler omitted **
Just your gear listed costs 4130 gp which is already in excess of the 3000 which is the average wealth for a level 3 character, with 2800 going to you armor.
And you're assuming your DM would allow you to take monster feats. While you're a kobold this isn't a foregone conclusion.
So.. yes you would survive as you would be well over the power threshold of the average encounter.
Unless they use shocking grasp on you. Or anything with a will save.
Not to mention you've got a 15 foot move because of your armor..
Is it my imagination, or were Kobolts ever "dog like"?. I seem to remember they used to be like well little Anthropomorphic Yippie Chihuahuas wielding kitchen knives. When did the scales and dragon fluff come in? the first edition monster manuel? or were they always scaly? I do think they were always yippie.
in 1ed they were Little Scaly Dog men, the Dragon wannabie stuff was added in 3.0. i liked those Kobolds.. though i also liked 1e pig man orcs so perhaps i am wierd.
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Is it my imagination, or were Kobolts ever "dog like"?. I seem to remember they used to be like well little Anthropomorphic Yippie Chihuahuas wielding kitchen knives. When did the scales and dragon fluff come in? the first edition monster manuel? or were they always scaly? I do think they were always yippie.in 1ed they were Little Scaly Dog men, the Dragon wannabie stuff was added in 3.0. i liked those Kobolds.. though i also liked 1e pig man orcs so perhaps i am wierd.
I like 'em both, but make them separate races.
The yappy little dog-men can run on all fours at 30 ft. or use the normal 20 ft. small race speed when using weapons. They are good at crafts, similar to the 'cobalts' of lore.
Wyrmkin are hatched from unfertilized dragon eggs and end up either serving their 'mothers,' or being devoured by them (for those with less patience for the little blighters), or being driven off and left to the wilds.
I normally hate the proliferation of mostly redundant humanoid races (does anyone miss tasloi?), but both of these critters filled a niche, and so I made an exception. :)
Y'know, Lodoss Wars had straight-up dog people for their kobolds.
That and Japanese RPGs that use them seem to have stuck with the dog-style overall, while we went draconic for the most part. Hmm...
Thats cause they have dragons everywhere. While we have dogs everywhere.
So why do people use them & why did pazio make them a playable race?This bears repeating: Kobolds are not a PC race.
Any Bestiary Sidebar that says "(monster) Characters" is included for the GM to scratchbuild NPCs. By RAW, there are no PC races in the Bestiary. Please pass this information to anyone else you know laboring under this false assumption.
Actually kinda incorrect..
Tieflings show up in an adventure path to play as.. but like other said, it ends up being about the DM himself.
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Essentially
The races in the core book are designed and balanced around the idea of being playable races.
The races in the Bestiary are designed as monsters to be fought by players.
The monsters in the Bestiary may or may not be balanced against the core races but they are not designed to be player races. Many of them work just fine as player races, some of them do not. Kobolds clearly fall a bit below the curve.
So much like any other thing you use in a way other than what it's designed for, use at your own risk.
Y'know, Lodoss Wars had straight-up dog people for their kobolds.
That and Japanese RPGs that use them seem to have stuck with the dog-style overall, while we went draconic for the most part. Hmm...
The Suikoden series had them as straight up dog-men, too, if I recall correctly.
Edit- Anyone read Gaiman's American Gods? That featured one helluvia creepy version of a Kobold.
So you’ve been to school for a year or two
And you’ve memorised the SRD.
But when it comes to kobolds
That don’t mean sh1t to me.Quoting EL, xp and CR,
On the Paizo message board
Doesn’t help you invade
A defended cave
And steal a real kobold’s hoard!It’s time to face
What you most fear!
Appeals for help
Won’t help you here!What you need, my so-o-on,
What.
You need.
My So-o-on!Is a holiday in Koboldia
Where they make you wade in cack!
A holiday in Koboldia
Dropping scorpions on your back!(Surf guitar break)
You’re an optimised sneak,
But your Fort is weak,
And your Will is made of fail.
We’ll see how you smile,
Dropped in the dung pile,
Skewered on a rusty nail.Oh, you’ll sweat harder
With a spear in your back
From a hidden murder-hole!
You’ll regret
Getting out of your bed
Without your ten-foot pole!It’s time to go
Where they use their brains!
It’s time to go
Where they deal out pain!It’s a holiday in Koboldia
Where you do what you’re told!
A holiday in Koboldia
Where PCs get pwned and sold!Ko – Bold!
Ko – Bold!
Ko – Bold!
Ko – Bold!Ko – Bold!
Ko – Bold!
Ko – Bold!
Ko – Bold!(Koboldkoboldkoboldkoboldkoboldkoboldkoboldkobold)
It’s a holiday in Koboldia
Where you do what you’re told!
A holiday in Koboldia
Where PCs get pwned and sold!
Jello Biafra just died, only so he could turn in his grave.
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Is it my imagination, or were Kobolts ever "dog like"?. I seem to remember they used to be like well little Anthropomorphic Yippie Chihuahuas wielding kitchen knives. When did the scales and dragon fluff come in? the first edition monster manuel? or were they always scaly? I do think they were always yippie.
I kinda liked them as yappy rat-dogs. The new dragon wannabees much less
Str: Dark vision, +1 Armor, +2 Dex & the virtually unused crafty
Weaknesses: Light sensitvity, -4 Str & -2 Con
So why do people use them & why did pazio make them a playable race?
The challenge!
I had a friend who's favorite character of all time was "Wonk Bonk Hole-In-Sock, RATSLAYER!" - gully dwarf fighter of no measurable worth.
The fun isn't always in being effective.
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Thank you, so i'm not alone in my thoughts.
Ill have them as little yippie dog rats. cuddly ones that will bite you if you pet them.
Set I may use your idea.
Except, I never understood why there would be a connection between Dragons and Kobolds.
Scales? yeah lizards have scales too.
Perhaps i might do this in my home campaign....Have Pugwumpis and "Furry" cobalts be related to gnolls...so they have someone to kick around.
have the scaley Kobolts be related to Lizard men, or Serpant folk so they have small servants to boss around. Perhaps Kobotls could be the "de evolution" of Serpant folk? just an idea
I think there might be a much more reasonable to have a closer connection between Kobolts and Lizard men then Kobolts and dragons.
What use would a Kobolt be to a Dragon? Im sure Lizard men or Serpent Folk would be much more useful to a Dragons then Kobolts. But what do I Know.
Again thanks for your answers.
and yes i think it would be fun to play one.
Essentially
The races in the core book are designed and balanced around the idea of being playable races.
The races in the Bestiary are designed as monsters to be fought by players.
The monsters in the Bestiary may or may not be balanced against the core races but they are not designed to be player races. Many of them work just fine as player races, some of them do not. Kobolds clearly fall a bit below the curve.
So much like any other thing you use in a way other than what it's designed for, use at your own risk.
+1
Is it my imagination, or were Kobolts ever "dog like"?. I seem to remember they used to be like well little Anthropomorphic Yippie Chihuahuas wielding kitchen knives. When did the scales and dragon fluff come in? the first edition monster manuel? or were they always scaly? I do think they were always yippie.
also, don't forget that they wielded one of the most frighteningly ridiculous weapons of AD&D...a Scorptiion tied to a STICK!!!
in pathfinder, I'm thinking small light flail, that has a chance of poisoning on a critical hit, but also has a chance of poisioning its wielder on a Nat 1...hmmm
Because when you roll a kobold you've just turned on HARD MODE.
+3100% Kobold campaign ftw!I am entertained by this idea. :D
+4 I would so do that
Is it my imagination, or were Kobolts ever "dog like"?. I seem to remember they used to be like well little Anthropomorphic Yippie Chihuahuas wielding kitchen knives. When did the scales and dragon fluff come in? the first edition monster manuel? or were they always scaly? I do think they were always yippie.also, don't forget that they wielded one of the most frighteningly ridiculous weapons of AD&D...a Scorptiion tied to a STICK!!!
in pathfinder, I'm thinking small light flail, that has a chance of poisoning on a critical hit, but also has a chance of poisioning its wielder on a Nat 1...hmmm
A flail is pretty nasty. Maybe a whip, though.
The current campaign, Kingmaker, has several human characters, a half-elf, my Half-Orc .... and a Black-Scaled Kobold Bard, who is channelling Deekin from the Neverwinter Nights series, albeit after several pounds of high-grade crack.
One of the most memorable characters I've played with, even if half of the time somebody is shouting "RIGHT! That does it, we bury the singing skink here! Alive!"
Under estimate a Kobold at your own peril. Remember that when you see a kobold on his own turf, there are at least 5 others you don't see. And if he is alone, it's because he's got PC levels and can potentially rip you to pieces.
I played in an all Kobold Shackled City Campaign. That was one of the greatest games we've ever had.
PS: Gnomes are blights on all of creation!
PC levels?
Pff.
I don't care if he's a 20th level sorcerer, he's still got five friends in hiding. He's a KOBOLD.
If you can look at Meepo and Kobold Quarterly's mascot character and not fall in love with the race, you are dead inside and have forgotten what it means to feel joy.
+1
+2+3 and
+4
Power to the kobolds.
Edit: Here's a question for everyone. Kobolds are "underpowered" compared to other player races. If they got a 3rd trait (one of which must be a racial trait), do you think that would balance them out?
If you can look at Meepo and Kobold Quarterly's mascot character and not fall in love with the race, you are dead inside and have forgotten what it means to feel joy.+1
+2
+3 and
+4Power to the kobolds.
Edit: Here's a question for everyone. Kobolds are "underpowered" compared to other player races. If they got a 3rd trait (one of which must be a racial trait), do you think that would balance them out?
No. It wouldn't. Some guy recently posted a race-creation guideliney thing in the forums, and where 10 points were what a race should have, kobolds had 0.
I think it'd take a better NA, some more useful skill bonuses and maybe a bonus Teamwork feat to make them reasonable as a race.
Some guy recently posted a race-creation guideliney thing in the forums, and where 10 points were what a race should have, kobolds had 0.
Do you have a link?
I think it'd take a better NA, some more useful skill bonuses and maybe a bonus Teamwork feat to make them reasonable as a race.
NA?
I have to admit I have never played a kobold. But I wouldn't be averse to it, for the cool factor. Kobolds (and goblins to a lesser extent) are the most abused monster in the game. As a race, they are small, weak, lazy, not overly intelligent and cowardly, and they have died in hordes at the hands of adventurers over the years. That makes them great underdogs. I would be happy to play a kobold just to be able to mock the BBEG with: "Yeah, I'm a kobold, but I still kicked your ass. So what does that make you?"
We have a tribe of Kobolds living inside our country, in Kingmaker. I can assure you that they are neither stupid nor lazy;rather, they are cunning and actually quite lawful (albeit of the Evil variety.)
If you wanted to explore the varies of a LE society, of a reptilian nature, then you want to play Kobolds.
I think an entire party of 'em would be a blast.
I don't have a link, no.
And NA referred to Natural Armor.
/\ The interesting thing is that unlike hobgoblins, kobolds are very good at working together. While a hobgoblin army will soon collapse on itself, a kobold tribe can last near forever.
Is it my imagination, or were Kobolts ever "dog like"?. I seem to remember they used to be like well little Anthropomorphic Yippie Chihuahuas wielding kitchen knives. When did the scales and dragon fluff come in? the first edition monster manuel? or were they always scaly? I do think they were always yippie.I kinda liked them as yappy rat-dogs. The new dragon wannabees much less
+1.
I even liked the lore in the 3.0 MM where it was stated the the relationship between kobolds and dragons were just a belief on the kobold part and not neccessarily ttrue( IE it was lerft up to the DM).
Than the Races of Dragon book came out and well forever more ruined kobolds for me.
I thought Dragon's Ecology of the Kobold handled it okay. They're not descended from actual dragons, and they were just made out of necessity to clear out some rubble.
I thought Dragon's Ecology of the Kobold handled it okay. They're not descended from actual dragons, and they were just made out of necessity to clear out some rubble.
Ah I have missed that one. You got a link?
Here's the thread. PF Race Building Guide
I thought Dragon's Ecology of the Kobold handled it okay. They're not descended from actual dragons, and they were just made out of necessity to clear out some rubble.Ah I have missed that one. You got a link?
I remember it was in a June issue with a red dragon on the cover. One of the later ones. Otherwise I got nothing.
A number of collected ecologies (including the kobold) are here for a steal at $9.99.
Because kobolds are masters of diguise
http://d.facdn.net/art/commissar-k/1294139888.commissar-k_koboldfamily.png
http://d.facdn.net/art/commissar-k/1259527989.commissar-k_incognitotest_web .png
Just want to say that Monster Races are a real challenge to add to a gaming world. If everyone is a good guy or a bad guy the whole party can expect welcome in places. If your party plays for both teams your list of allies grows thin.
Kobolds are deadly vicious critters (This goes for most monster races) that kill in great numbers and by deception. Even your average shop keeper will know your character sure isn't normal for a civilized city and would probably breath easier if your character was in little pieces. You won't fair any better in Kobold lairs with the rest of the party.
Racial hatreds, bounties and laws make it more than a matter of... "Yeah I'm a monster, isn't that special ?"
Many social settings necessary to adventure development break down if you have obvious racial hatred being the first thing a party confronts in a given situation.
Pretending a player's race is simply ignored for game reasons can become very unsatisfying. Goblins and Kobolds being treated as ugly Halflings sort of ruins the game immersion for me.
One of my favorite NPC's ever was a kobold sorcerer named Muki di Crookshank.
I had him get affected by "wild magic" type variant stuff for extra bonus fun.