Party missing Rogue


Advice

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Cleric, check, Fighter, check, Wizard, check...

Any suggestions when your party is missing a Rogue?


harmor wrote:

Cleric, check, Fighter, check, Wizard, check...

Any suggestions when your party is missing a Rogue?

Does your DM allow you to creatively bypass traps or does he restrict you to disabling them only?


the importance of a rogue is all dependantbon how much you want to emphasize it. even if running a purchased adventure of traps can be detected though not disarmed with spells.

Grand Lodge

Wands of Knock and Detect Traps? Get a Ranger?


We have been adventuring without a rogue for a long time in a current 3.5 campaign. And we have two clerics. We aren't all that great about finding traps, disabling devices or skulking around. With two clerics, a druid and a sorcerer we typically either just blunder into traps, or we manage to barely find them. We mostly miss the rogue on opening locks, really, but it's surprising what you can do to open things with a big hammer and chisel, or an old beaten up waraxe. Those chests and doors seem to open right up. And as a bonus we almost always find a nice set of experience on the hoof on the other side of those doors. So it's been a win-win for us.


harmor wrote:

Cleric, check, Fighter, check, Wizard, check...

Any suggestions when your party is missing a Rogue?

... umm... Carry on!

Someone else bumps up their perception... I dont' know..

Honestly I can't stand groups that NEED Each of the standard classes. If you've already got 3 players... the 4th one feels 'obligated' to fill the misssing slot.

That's garbage. Play who you WANT to play, NOT what the party is missing. One poor save, and the fighter may be dead... and unless that player wants to play the same thing for his back up character... then they could have USED your other awesome fighter idea!!!


harmor wrote:

Cleric, check, Fighter, check, Wizard, check...

Any suggestions when your party is missing a Rogue?

Dance a jig of glee there is not a terrible, terrible class in your party weighing you down like an anchor. Everything you "need" from a rogue can be accomplished with a one level dip in it. And that is limited to the odd magical trap, as spotting a mechanical trap is just a perception roll. Heck your cleric can cast detect traps later.


harmor wrote:

Cleric, check, Fighter, check, Wizard, check...

Any suggestions when your party is missing a Rogue?

Simplest solution? Pick up the nearest gnome/halfling/goblin, punt them in the direction you want to check for traps and see what happens.


brassbaboon wrote:
We mostly miss the rogue on opening locks, really, but it's surprising what you can do to open things with a big hammer and chisel, or an old beaten up waraxe. Those chests and doors seem to open right up.

Obligatory:

The chest is made of old wood, banded with rusting metal. Fingerprints captured in soot are abundant on the lid and sides. It does not give off an aura of magic, but a tug at the lid tells you it is locked.

Now what?

Spoiler:
The chest is packed full of gunpowder.


another_mage wrote:
brassbaboon wrote:
We mostly miss the rogue on opening locks, really, but it's surprising what you can do to open things with a big hammer and chisel, or an old beaten up waraxe. Those chests and doors seem to open right up.

Obligatory:

The chest is made of old wood, banded with rusting metal. Fingerprints captured in soot are abundant on the lid and sides. It does not give off an aura of magic, but a tug at the lid tells you it is locked.

Now what?

** spoiler omitted **

I bash the old wood part on top in because it is easier to break and less likely to be trapped.

Shadow Lodge

Archivist Bard for the win. Trapfinding, skillmonkeying, combat boosting and lecturing people to death all in one studious package!

Or the urban ranger - an unscrupulous master of the cityscape, with trapfinding favored enemy slaying and bonus feat mayhem included. Might not be that useful if the campaign includes moving around in the wilderness, but ruined cities, metropolises and creepy hamlets with those oh-so-quaint terrible secrets will assuredly be mastered.

Naturally, you don't necessarily need a trapfinder. A skillful person is often enough. Getting disable device as a class skill is pretty easy with the right traits or feats or just a class skill list. Alchemists qualify for it, for instance. A skillful person is anyone with two of the following features a)a good intelligence score(casters, Students of War, some races) b) a hefty amount of skill points via class selection(rangers, inquisitors, bards, rogues, even cavaliers) c) a reason to keep investing in Intelligence(again casters and rogues who've taken the monkey role).

In my mind, even a barbarian(!) with a decent starting score who buys a headband can qualify, if she avoids overlap with the other characters. So no spellcraft or knowledge:religion, since the wizard and the cleric already picked them. Alchemists and Inquisitors will fit the combative skill master the easiest, since alchemist begin with a good amount of points, will invest in headbands/ioun stones and a have smattering of nice class skills and inquisitors are in the business of slaying monsters(think of Sapzkowski's witchers), so are naturally loaded with skills useful for an adventuring party and abilities that enhance them. An oracle of lore with the right mysteries can qualify as well.

One thing I'd like to try eventually is a ranger/student of war. Substituting dexterity with intelligence as an AC-bestowing stat is powerful and means a hefty amount of starting intelligence AND an enhancing item eventually. Rangers begin the game with 6 skill points and have even less reason to invest in Dexterity than other classes, thanks to their the bonus feats. A skill monkey who also tanks and shield bashes? Thank you very much.

Grand Lodge

Muser wrote:

Archivist Bard for the win. Trapfinding, skillmonkeying, combat boosting and lecturing people to death all in one studious package!

Or the urban ranger - an unscrupulous master of the cityscape, with trapfinding favored enemy slaying and bonus feat mayhem included. Might not be that useful if the campaign includes moving around in the wilderness, but ruined cities, metropolises and creepy hamlets with those oh-so-quaint terrible secrets will assuredly be mastered.

Or a character can always invest in a skill without the class bonus... sure they'll suck and need to take 20 a lot but with some time and a little investment they should be ok... realistically most locks would be DC20 or under. For Indiana Jones type stuff get a proffessional in or take your chances with the rolling boulder.

If one does want the class bonus? Traits are your friend, if the GM allows them - its more for when you start characters but whose to say one of those priests didnt have a colourful past before becoming a member of the cloth? Traits do a great job of representing a characters background.

Grand Lodge

another_mage wrote:


Obligatory:

The chest is made of old wood, banded with rusting metal. Fingerprints captured in soot are abundant on the lid and sides. It does not give off an aura of magic, but a tug at the lid tells you it is locked.

Now what?

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Look again, the gunpowder is now DIAMONDS.

Leadership Feat

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

Am I the only GM for whom traps rarely come up? I don't use a lot of them, except in the most intricate dungeon crawls because 1.) they often are not terribly dramatic. 2.) they exist to deal a little damage and then basically go away, basically a tax on HP. 3.) unlike a monster encounter, strategy and tactics have almost nothing to do with them, they are a pure luck encounter. Either you roll high enough to disarm it or you don't. Lacking a rogue, it becomes "either you save/it misses or you don't/it doesn't."

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Wands of Knock and Detect Traps? Get a Ranger?

Did the following for our campaign which is sans rogue, its legit by wondrous item rules. Please ignore the campy H2G2 reference, the "super chromatic" version is CL 10 to get the +5 comp bonus

Joo Janta's Spectacles of Peril Sensitivity

Aura: Moderate divination; CL 3
Slot: Face; Price: 24,000 Weight —

Description

These stylish lenses are often seen sported on noses and ears of only the hoopyest froods of wizard and sorcerer kind.

These spectacles warn their wearer of danger from traps, both mechanical or
magic. Of the wearer passes within 10'' of such dangers he is granted a
perception check to detect the trap. She is granted +1 competence bonus to
these checks.

Construction
Requirements: Craft Wonderous Item, Find Traps; Cost 12,000 gp


Fatespinner wrote:
Am I the only GM for whom traps rarely come up? I don't use a lot of them, except in the most intricate dungeon crawls because 1.) they often are not terribly dramatic. 2.) they exist to deal a little damage and then basically go away, basically a tax on HP. 3.) unlike a monster encounter, strategy and tactics have almost nothing to do with them, they are a pure luck encounter. Either you roll high enough to disarm it or you don't. Lacking a rogue, it becomes "either you save/it misses or you don't/it doesn't."

No you arent. In my current adventure there have been a total of 3 traps (spread over something like 7 sessions). I dont particularly like them. Ofcourse my party is still crazy paranoid about them, and it still amuses me to tell the thief when he searches 'you dont notice any traps' instead of 'there arent any traps;. I then smile evily and wait for them to open the door.

Trapfinding is probably the secondary issue for the rogue in my opinion, first is the variety of skills. Seeking out info, sneaking around, opening locked things without alerting the whole dungeon to the party's presence, or dealing with social situations is almost always helpful. But I have played through adventures where there are dozens of traps in a single dungeon. So I guess its a dm style thing.

To the OP, I would say it depends on your dms style of play. How important are skills? Does he load adventures with traps? Does he create situations that need diverse skill sets to solve? If yes, then you probably need to find a way to fit in that kind of charater (the archavist bard is a great recomendation). If not, get to adventuring with your current party.


Fatespinner wrote:
Am I the only GM for whom traps rarely come up? I don't use a lot of them, except in the most intricate dungeon crawls because 1.) they often are not terribly dramatic. 2.) they exist to deal a little damage and then basically go away, basically a tax on HP. 3.) unlike a monster encounter, strategy and tactics have almost nothing to do with them, they are a pure luck encounter. Either you roll high enough to disarm it or you don't. Lacking a rogue, it becomes "either you save/it misses or you don't/it doesn't."

I use traps, but I also make sure they are traps that are deserving of whatever CR they have, and not just a minor inconvenience.


another_mage wrote:
brassbaboon wrote:
We mostly miss the rogue on opening locks, really, but it's surprising what you can do to open things with a big hammer and chisel, or an old beaten up waraxe. Those chests and doors seem to open right up.

Obligatory:

The chest is made of old wood, banded with rusting metal. Fingerprints captured in soot are abundant on the lid and sides. It does not give off an aura of magic, but a tug at the lid tells you it is locked.

Now what?

** spoiler omitted **

Heh... understand the risk, but this particular situation would not necessarily end badly, the material in question is triggered by fire or spark, not concussion. So bashing the chest in would not necessarily have the impact you are suggesting. However, of course, there are materials that would have the effect you seem to be implying.

Grand Lodge

Fatespinner wrote:
Am I the only GM for whom traps rarely come up? I don't use a lot of them, except in the most intricate dungeon crawls because 1.) they often are not terribly dramatic. 2.) they exist to deal a little damage and then basically go away, basically a tax on HP. 3.) unlike a monster encounter, strategy and tactics have almost nothing to do with them, they are a pure luck encounter. Either you roll high enough to disarm it or you don't. Lacking a rogue, it becomes "either you save/it misses or you don't/it doesn't."

Not true, there are some very fun an unique traps that don't follow the normal trap tropes.


Madclaw wrote:
Fatespinner wrote:
Am I the only GM for whom traps rarely come up? I don't use a lot of them, except in the most intricate dungeon crawls because 1.) they often are not terribly dramatic. 2.) they exist to deal a little damage and then basically go away, basically a tax on HP. 3.) unlike a monster encounter, strategy and tactics have almost nothing to do with them, they are a pure luck encounter. Either you roll high enough to disarm it or you don't. Lacking a rogue, it becomes "either you save/it misses or you don't/it doesn't."
Not true, there are some very fun an unique traps that don't follow the normal trap tropes.

I actually really like the material in 3.5 dungeonscape on traps as encounters. I feel like a trap on a door, or in a hallway is just a skill check and maybe some hp tax. A trap in the middle of a fight though, that can get interesting.


Don't worry, "rouges" as many here like to call them [!] suck anyway.

You can survive without a Rogue easier than you can with out the other 3 elements, imo.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Kolokotroni wrote:
Madclaw wrote:
Fatespinner wrote:
Am I the only GM for whom traps rarely come up? I don't use a lot of them, except in the most intricate dungeon crawls because 1.) they often are not terribly dramatic. 2.) they exist to deal a little damage and then basically go away, basically a tax on HP. 3.) unlike a monster encounter, strategy and tactics have almost nothing to do with them, they are a pure luck encounter. Either you roll high enough to disarm it or you don't. Lacking a rogue, it becomes "either you save/it misses or you don't/it doesn't."
Not true, there are some very fun an unique traps that don't follow the normal trap tropes.
I actually really like the material in 3.5 dungeonscape on traps as encounters. I feel like a trap on a door, or in a hallway is just a skill check and maybe some hp tax. A trap in the middle of a fight though, that can get interesting.

Throne room + pit trap the goons know about + king with a leaver to open the pit. Halfway through the fight, as the rogue moves within 10' of the pit, I made the roll for trap sense, and let him know he is about to move into a square that is trapped. He opted to use his std to make proper perception check to determine how to disable it(jam lever beside throne) and what the general dimensions of the pit were. Really messed up the battle field as they spent the whole fight avoiding the center of the room, made it a hard slog for them to get up to the king.

Grand Lodge

Good examples, but I mean a trap like this.

88. Kitty Pit

A 10'X10'x50' foot pit is in front of you. At the bottom of the pit lays an adorable kitty cat. On one side of the pit is a ladder that goes down 30'.

DM:
Once the player crosses the last 20' after the ladder they are immediate targeted by a unique reduce person spell in which they are reduced to diminutive size. The kitty is hungry.


Bag of tricks is a useful trap finding device.


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Bag of tricks is a useful trap finding device.

As a long-time GM I can assure you that things like throwing a porcupine into a trapped room is not likely to set off one of my traps. So the "bag of tricks" trick is not going to help your party avoid my traps.

I spend a little time on my traps. I try to make up for quantity with quality. Most of my traps are designed for certain circumstances. A typical pit trap will not trigger under the weight of a rogue, but will trigger under the weight of an armor-wearing fighter. Many traps have a trigger in one square, but the effect occurs in a different square. Some are blatantly obvious traps that have no simple way to avoid, and for those I require some thought from the party to figure out a way to avoid the trap or effect.

And then there are the magical traps and the rooms that are built around a trap concept. My evil wizard NPCs are notorious for building elaborate Rube Goldberg style traps that are filled with false threats which give the party the illusion of disabling the trap.

For those I like to do a loud, cackling "muuhahahahhahaaaa!!" laugh when they go off.


brassbaboon wrote:

As a long-time GM I can assure you that things like throwing a porcupine into a trapped room is not likely to set off one of my traps. So the "bag of tricks" trick is not going to help your party avoid my traps.

It generally doesn't work, but the visual is amusing enough that I thought to mention it.

Liberty's Edge

If there are undead in the campaign from time to time, low level ones and Command Undead can work for trap detection.

You can store extras in bags of Holding.

Unseen Servants dragging 200lb. bags of rocks can set some off, too.

-Kle.

Sczarni

If traps aren't a big deal at your table, Rogues (or anyone dedicated to finding and neutralizing them) are less than necessary.

I disagree with anyone who says "they suck," but that's another matter.

As far as getting around the "need" for said character, some good suggestions have been made.

Others:

Undead. Skeletons & Zombies are cheap, effective, and who cares if they get spiked/crushed/flamed/etc. They're zombies, after all.

Summon Monster. Especially with the Summoner class (for extended duration), these are similar to the undead, except they're not actually abominations of nature.

Henchmen. Sure, it's pretty callous to bring torchbearers and packwearers into a horrible deathtrap dungeon, but its better than YOU dying, right? Plus, it's a time honored tradition.

Spells. While I am loath to suggest a Cleric/Wizard/etc dedicate their (rather more wisely spent elsewhere) magical prowess to eliminating these threats, it is a viable solution. At higher levels, when that 2nd or 3rd level spell is less noticed, this becomes less painful.

Divination Magic. Corollary to the Spells suggestion, one of those wiser uses of Arcane/Divine casters is to scout out the area, prior to actually going in. Prying eyes, arcane eye, clairvoyance/clairaudience, scrying, project image, ethereal jaunt, elemental body, and more can be used to safely identify the trap/danger. Forewarned is forearmed, right?


Our party has the gunslinger with disable device (high dex) and they just found a ring if manical devices, so he'll likely take that.

As for magic traps, there is detect magic and dispel magic, although recently:

The party was in the tomb, after defeating the two headed brine dragon that was the guardian of the partially submerged tomb, the party was frantic to get out (the tomb is slowly filling up via a decanter of endless water) they were trapped in the tomb with the dragon via another really large (room sized) trap door.

The only thing they could find to "manipulate" was the lid of the sarcophagus, so the popped it open, triggering a magical "trap" that cast resurrection on the tomb guardian!

Poof a second two headed adult brine dragon to kill!

So they don't find ALL the traps.

though I find it cheesy a rogue with no magical abilities would have been able to find and disarm a trap like that anyway....


Fatespinner wrote:
Am I the only GM for whom traps rarely come up? I don't use a lot of them, except in the most intricate dungeon crawls because 1.) they often are not terribly dramatic. 2.) they exist to deal a little damage and then basically go away, basically a tax on HP. 3.) unlike a monster encounter, strategy and tactics have almost nothing to do with them, they are a pure luck encounter. Either you roll high enough to disarm it or you don't. Lacking a rogue, it becomes "either you save/it misses or you don't/it doesn't."

+1

I'll add 4) They are also placed in areas they make no sense...or are beyond the abilities of the inhabitants most of the time.

Not saying I don't use traps...but I throw them in so rarely.

As a Player I just find them uninteresting to the point where unless my rogue to be able to sabortage equipment or open locks(now) I don't put points in it...and trad out the trapfinding abilities any chance I get.


Pendagast wrote:


though I find it cheesy a rogue with no magical abilities would have been able to find and disarm a trap like that anyway....

The "no magic ability" thing is part of what balances casters and makes rogues so useful. They are so skilled they can do stuff without magic.

They can't create a magical trap, but they have the knowledge to know if they smudge a summoning circle the demon gets out. Stuff like that, but more trap specific.

Knowledge is power, but not all of the knowledge belongs to wizards.


John Kretzer wrote:
Fatespinner wrote:
Am I the only GM for whom traps rarely come up? I don't use a lot of them, except in the most intricate dungeon crawls because 1.) they often are not terribly dramatic. 2.) they exist to deal a little damage and then basically go away, basically a tax on HP. 3.) unlike a monster encounter, strategy and tactics have almost nothing to do with them, they are a pure luck encounter. Either you roll high enough to disarm it or you don't. Lacking a rogue, it becomes "either you save/it misses or you don't/it doesn't."

+1

I'll add 4) They are also placed in areas they make no sense...or are beyond the abilities of the inhabitants most of the time.

Not saying I don't use traps...but I throw them in so rarely.

As a Player I just find them uninteresting to the point where unless my rogue to be able to sabortage equipment or open locks(now) I don't put points in it...and trad out the trapfinding abilities any chance I get.

This is why when I do put in a trap, I do my best to make it memorable. And I've had some doozies in my day. Some traps are as exciting and difficult to overcome as a full encounter. And they give great opportunities for role playing too. But it's as much work as creating a full encounter. I don't care much for boring, run-of-the-mill traps. My traps usually involve some mysterious controlling mechanism, multiple possible effects, triggers apart from the affected area and sequence of actions to figure out to disarm the trap.

A good trap can be a lot of fun for the party. Especially when they figue one out and manage to use it against the NPCs themselves. That's always fun.

In one of my low level campaigns I had the kobolds lay out oil-soaked straw along a long corridor, with crossbow slits at intervals in the corridor "manned" by kobolds. When the party entered the corridor I told them "you smell oil, and the straw on the floor is sticking to your boots as you walk." When they took no action to deal with this, I had the kobolds man the crossbow stations. Then, when they were halfway down the corridor, the triggering kobold tossed the lit torch into their midst. The resulting conflagration and withering barrage of crossbow bolts gave them a new respect for their little reptilian adversaries...

I like that sort of stuff...


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Wands of Knock and Detect Traps? Get a Ranger?

Finding traps isn't the problem in Pathfinder, it's disabling them.

And Knock only goes so far


another_mage wrote:
brassbaboon wrote:
We mostly miss the rogue on opening locks, really, but it's surprising what you can do to open things with a big hammer and chisel, or an old beaten up waraxe. Those chests and doors seem to open right up.

Obligatory:

The chest is made of old wood, banded with rusting metal. Fingerprints captured in soot are abundant on the lid and sides. It does not give off an aura of magic, but a tug at the lid tells you it is locked.

Now what?

Hit it with a hammer or waraxe until it breaks

Spoiler:
Does black powder need a spark to ignite?


brassbaboon wrote:

A typical pit trap will not trigger under the weight of a rogue, but will trigger under the weight of an armor-wearing fighter.

just because some body said fighter does not mean that they have full plate and a Zweihander.

there are plenty of 'fighter' concepts that don't wear a lot of armor and there are places where heavy armor would be highly impractical.

i have both seen and played lightly armored fighters before. mostly female, and most of them were of slight build and light weight. and lightly geared.

would one of these 'fighters' trigger your pit trap?


Cartigan wrote:
another_mage wrote:
brassbaboon wrote:
We mostly miss the rogue on opening locks, really, but it's surprising what you can do to open things with a big hammer and chisel, or an old beaten up waraxe. Those chests and doors seem to open right up.

Obligatory:

The chest is made of old wood, banded with rusting metal. Fingerprints captured in soot are abundant on the lid and sides. It does not give off an aura of magic, but a tug at the lid tells you it is locked.

Now what?

Hit it with a hammer or waraxe until it breaks

** spoiler omitted **

Yes. It does.

Grand Lodge

Cartigan wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Wands of Knock and Detect Traps? Get a Ranger?

Finding traps isn't the problem in Pathfinder, it's disabling them.

And Knock only goes so far

Add a wand of Summon Monster?


Shuriken Nekogami wrote:
brassbaboon wrote:

A typical pit trap will not trigger under the weight of a rogue, but will trigger under the weight of an armor-wearing fighter.

just because some body said fighter does not mean that they have full plate and a Zweihander.

there are plenty of 'fighter' concepts that don't wear a lot of armor and there are places where heavy armor would be highly impractical.

i have both seen and played lightly armored fighters before. mostly female, and most of them were of slight build and light weight. and lightly geared.

would one of these 'fighters' trigger your pit trap?

If the trap is geared to trigger at a certain weight, whenever that weight is on the trigger, it will go off. If there is nobody in the party who weighs enough, then it won't go off. Although there are always misfires on traps anyway, especially old ones. The trap doesn't know what class the person is, it just knows how heavy they are.

But that's for a trap triggered by weight. Other triggers might be based on height, tripwires, or just about any other thing.


traps give you an element of suprise, slow down a party when they are moving through something too fast, tell your party "hey there is something here worth protecting." and so on.

be that as it may, I use traps mostly in the "holy smash us to pieces batman!" sense.

that meaning the party is trapped in a room that is getting smaller, or flooding,, or filling with gas, all if has the "han, luke, chewie and leia in the trash compactor feel"

If I sue smaller traps they are on chests, but it's usually a small needle that injects something like mummy rot or lycanthropy or something more dramatic than X damage.


Here is a trap I'm working on now. The party is trying to investigate an evil wizard's lair. The wizard is somewhat insane and paranoid. He doesn't even trust his own minions. So he has several layers of traps and surprises set in his lair. The most involved is a room with multicolored tiles on the floor, and a small pillar that flashes alternating colors in a seemingly random pattern.

The party has information that they have to cross through the room to get to the door on the other side, which will provide access to the wizard's inner chambers. But to get to that door they have to cross the floor. There are contingent spells cast in the room, so if a party member attempts to fly across the room, an "earthbind" spell is triggered which will cause them to fall into the colored tiles and be unable to fly. If they are on the wrong color square at the wrong time, they will take damage and be subjected to other effects.

The real trick is that the pattern changes each time someone successfully crosses the room, and there is a time limit both for each attempted crossing and for the total time in the room. If they don't get across the room in time, a contingent summoning spell summons a bunch of monsters which they then have to fight. Of course this sets off an alarm as well.

Besides figuring out the pattern, the party can also defeat the trap with certain spells or by placing heavy objects on certain squares to simulate a person standing on them.

Several of the squares effects occur at some other location, so just getting across the room doesn't mean you are out of the threatened area. The whole party has to figure it out, or the whole party suffers.


I don't find traps come up that much in my games. When they do another class with good Dex can tackle them as long as they aren't magical. If they are the wizard can try to deal with or the group tries to bypass the trap.

I've though about making trap finding feat that allows anyone with disable device to disable magical traps. Maybe with requirement for X amount of ranks in Knowledge Arcana as prerequisite. A bit of feat tax to do it and you don't get the 1/2 level to disable device like the rogue gets.


Traps are a genre bit in D&D, but generally they fail all tests of logic. Most of the non-magical traps are a menace to their own owners ("Whoops, forgot about that hidden poison trap I put here two years ago...ack..."), and the magical ones are a menace to everyone BUT their owners ("I lose more servants that way."). Expect dead kings to rig all sorts of traps in their tombs, and everybody else to employ more sane methods ("This is my vault. Note the 10 ton stone that blocks the entrance and takes 4 elephants to shift.)

Okay, not MUCH more sane, but you get the idea. Brute force and ignorance can often be more effective than grossly overpriced traps. I'd spend the money on secret doors rather than traps - secret doors usually don't kill the servants (especially not locked ones).


Helic wrote:

Traps are a genre bit in D&D, but generally they fail all tests of logic. Most of the non-magical traps are a menace to their own owners ("Whoops, forgot about that hidden poison trap I put here two years ago...ack..."), and the magical ones are a menace to everyone BUT their owners ("I lose more servants that way."). Expect dead kings to rig all sorts of traps in their tombs, and everybody else to employ more sane methods ("This is my vault. Note the 10 ton stone that blocks the entrance and takes 4 elephants to shift.)

Okay, not MUCH more sane, but you get the idea. Brute force and ignorance can often be more effective than grossly overpriced traps. I'd spend the money on secret doors rather than traps - secret doors usually don't kill the servants (especially not locked ones).

For the most I agree with this. The only time I think its appropriate is they are set up when someone expects intruders. "the heroes are comming quick set up that poison trap on the door and get in here" something like that. Otherwise who the heck even lives in these places. "wheres tim" "Pit trap" "damn thats the 3rd henchmen today"


brassbaboon wrote:
Shuriken Nekogami wrote:
brassbaboon wrote:

A typical pit trap will not trigger under the weight of a rogue, but will trigger under the weight of an armor-wearing fighter.

just because some body said fighter does not mean that they have full plate and a Zweihander.

there are plenty of 'fighter' concepts that don't wear a lot of armor and there are places where heavy armor would be highly impractical.

i have both seen and played lightly armored fighters before. mostly female, and most of them were of slight build and light weight. and lightly geared.

would one of these 'fighters' trigger your pit trap?

If the trap is geared to trigger at a certain weight, whenever that weight is on the trigger, it will go off. If there is nobody in the party who weighs enough, then it won't go off. Although there are always misfires on traps anyway, especially old ones. The trap doesn't know what class the person is, it just knows how heavy they are.

But that's for a trap triggered by weight. Other triggers might be based on height, tripwires, or just about any other thing.

you got me, but most trapsmiths aren't just up to par with Light Yagami. and most don't go into the detailed planning required to create such an elaborate alarm, unlike a certain megalomaniac with a killer notebook. these guys have to build a bypass method. so that they don't get harmed by thier own device. most of the time, this method is rather easy if you actually think about it. it's usually an off switch of some sort.


If you think that one of the players could manage it, you could allow that player to play a secondary character. That character should be weaker than the other characters - at least 2 levels lower than the other characters. A idea could a cowerdly goblin rogue that have been forces to flee from his tripe because he stole something valuable from the supreme priest.


Shuriken Nekogami wrote:


you got me, but most trapsmiths aren't just up to par with Light Yagami.

Not since AD&D anyway.


A good trap is a hole filled with acid.

With a trap door that resets.

Standing in front of the Lich.

That the fighter charges on the first round.

Traps are fun, they can make an encounter memorable. While some campaigns lack some, they sure can make a fight intersting.

A good trap should surprise a party, and build tension.

Think of an encounter with steam vents that do small damage but produce concealment, going off randomly.

A trap can be poison covering a treasure chest.

A ray of enfeeblement, a scroll case with a touch of idiocracy.

If you don't use traps while you gm, you should ask why, they are another tool to use. Then put allot in some Indiana Jones dungeon.

I like a mix of an encounter with traps and monsters going at once, there are allot of ways to make encounters more dynamic.

I think people do not like the cr of traps or think they are easy. Put a couple +3 encounters together and mix half the cr with traps during combat.

Silver Crusade

TriOmegaZero wrote:
another_mage wrote:


Obligatory:

The chest is made of old wood, banded with rusting metal. Fingerprints captured in soot are abundant on the lid and sides. It does not give off an aura of magic, but a tug at the lid tells you it is locked.

Now what?

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

I'd love to be a player in one of his games.


Unless you have death traps, rogues aren't very important. Sure, you take some extra damage, but it's nothing that can't be healed up with a wand of cure light wounds.

What is important is having someone with a high perception skill for secret doors and noticing things. The cleric can pick that up or someone else can, but it's important.

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