Using Ki


Ninja Discussion: Round 1

Sovereign Court

Does it take an action of some kind to spend a Ki point? Or could a ninja use a ki to activate Acrobatic Master and to get that added 20 feet of movement?

Dark Archive

Spending Ki points is generally a swift action unless otherwise noted.

Sovereign Court

Ah, so things like Forgotten Trick would be the exception to only being able to use one (unless sacrificing some other Action for another Swift).

Dark Archive

By RAW, you only get 1 swift action a turn no matter what. There is nothing in the rules that regards trading out actions for swift actions.


Given how time works, one could argue that you could sacrifice a move action for a swift, but that only can be done in Saga Edition Star Wars(maybe 4th Ed D&D too, I don't remember).

I'd be happy with them just dropping Forgotten Trick(which they'll probly do considering how broken it is)


Forgotten Trick is not broken, if you apply the rules correctly.
It just gives some more versatility at the cost of 2 Ki points.
If you don´t like it, homebrew without it.

Spending a Ki point is a swift action, only some exceptions make it a standard action or something else. For Forgotten trick it follows the trick you remember.


Are you sure that's exactly how it works? The wording's a bit vague.


InfernosReaper wrote:
Are you sure that's exactly how it works? The wording's a bit vague.

Its actually not said, but it says:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/playtests/paizo---ultimate-combat/ninja#TOC- Ninja-Trick- wrote:
When she uses this ability, she selects one ninja trick (not a master trick or rogue talent) that she does not know and can use that ninja trick for a number of rounds equal to her level. She must pay any ki costs associated with this trick as normal.

Thereby i conclude it follows the trick you remember.

Probably many who want to see this nerfed or abolished would argue one round to remember the trick, next round active the trick, but i think this is nonsense. It is already limited by level and costs 2 ki points normally. And don´t forget, you can only remember one combat trick, bomb trick or disguise or whatever at a time, if not use only one forgotten trick at a time (that could use some explanation, untill then up to DM).
So you need all the first tricks to use trick-chains, i.e. smoke bomb - choking bomb.I think if you use it correctly, it makes you more versatile, but not that more powerful.


Nothing in the description specifically says(or even implies) that you're limited to only being able to access 1 trick at a time using that ability.

That said, thematically, why do you think the ninja needs an ability like that?


InfernosReaper wrote:

Nothing in the description specifically says(or even implies) that you're limited to only being able to access 1 trick at a time using that ability.

That said, thematically, why do you think the ninja needs an ability like that?

Quote:
selects one ninja trick

Wait what?


The PostMonster General wrote:
A ninja with this ability can recall one trick taught to her by her ancient masters. When she uses this ability, she selects one ninja trick (not a master trick or rogue talent) that she does not know and can use that ninja trick for a number of rounds equal to her level.

You can recall (use) one trick at a time, this trick has to be a ninja trick. I can be Weapon training --> Weapon Focus or Combat trick --> Combat feat, but not a rogue talent or a master trick. Logically, if you apply what the rules say elsewhere in the game, you need to meet prerequisites.

Thematically, i think ninjas are very oportunistic and versatile, but not that strong all the time. Make something up out of need according to the situation is what they can do in my imagination. So it fits if they can use some enhancements or special tricks for a limited time with a great range, remembering something their masters told them or hinted at, but they didn´t really specialize on in training. You can access 22 other ninja tricks this way, two of them letting you have access to one (weapon focus) and 27 combat feats (team feats counted) that have no prerequisites (+-), most of them are not that powerful, some you can´t really put to use. If there is a question, it is if you can access master ninja tricks this way, like having smoke bombs, poison bombs amd then remember blinding bombs.


What I'm saying is that it's not crystal clear whether or not you can use this ability to pick up 1 trick for a bit, then use it on another round to pick up another, thus having access to 2 tricks at once.

That much ability access at level 2 is a bit much. Then again, I think it'd be awesome if the Fighter could spend retrain his feats daily(spending an hour to do so), selecting from a somewhat larger feats pool(kinda like Wizard's spells known pool)... The only real difference is that one idea's more restricted than the other.

Anywayz. Perhaps they could find some given ability to scrap, tone Forgotten Trick down a notch, & make it a default class feature.

Oh btw, I just remembered that they're done collecting info for the Ninja & everything we've been talking about is just a waste of time.


You are right, the wording could be more clear. But it says "recall one trick", so im pretty sure you cannot recall another trick next round.
Then it says: "for a number of rounds equal to her level", what means even with your reading, it wont last long anyway at low levels. Also you can only remember combat trick or weapon trick once anyway, because you can pick it as a trick only once. If you look closely at it, there are many restrictions. Many people seem to overread a lot often, me included.


not to mention the four ki you just used to activate those effects. Not like you've got that much to burn through


Shadow_of_death wrote:
not to mention the four ki you just used to activate those effects. Not like you've got that much to burn through

Oh yes, i forgot about that!

Thats one ki point + CHA modifier at level 2.
Perhaps a halfling with very high CHA could get 6 Ki points then, but thats absolutely maxed. Many people seem to go for DEX or even STR though.

Sovereign Court

Another question that came up at our game is could Forgotten Trick be used to 'store' a trick. As the trick lasts a number of rounds equal to the ninja's level could they for instance use it to remember Acrobatic Master and (as it lasts her level) not use it until her next turn when she then spends ki to, for instance, increase her movement to 50.


Robich wrote:
Another question that came up at our game is could Forgotten Trick be used to 'store' a trick. As the trick lasts a number of rounds equal to the ninja's level could they for instance use it to remember Acrobatic Master and (as it lasts her level) not use it until her next turn when she then spends ki to, for instance, increase her movement to 50.

Good question. Like it is written now probably you could remember it, then use it within rounds like your level. You cannot increase movement this way though. Acrobatics skill says: "No jump can allow you to exceed your maximum movement for the round." You can use one point from ki pool to increase your speed by 20 feet for 1 round, or light steps to increase movement as a fullround action, but thats nothing to do with forgotten trick.

I suggest this boots for best movement, giving you natural +12 on jumps as a ninja in addition with a nice attack: boots of the raptor

Sovereign Court

I more meant use Forgotten Trick to remember Acrobatics Master, then use it next turn when you can spend ki to increase your movement (having spent ki for Acrobatics Master last turn and thus freeing up your Swift action), this would mean your speed would be 50 when you use Acrobatics Master meaning you could, in theory, go a lot further.


Two things. 1, it doesn't state if the trick activates immediately or if you just gain access to it & have to activate it later. 2, with the way Acrobatics Master is worded, it appears that you... Wow, the wording on that thing is wonky, but I'm pretty sure it stops working at the start of the turn after you activate it, so you couldn't activate it then on the next turn reap the benefits.

3, if you're looking to long jump, you're better off with the speed bonus one. It ups ups your bonus to jump by 8(assuming a base speed of at least 30ft) & increases your max speed(& thus max jump distance) by 20ft. Not what you wanted, but probly as good as you can get without finding other ways to up your speed & bonus to acrobatics. For high jumps, I'd go with the +20 bonus to acrobatics instead.

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Ultimate Combat Playtest / Ninja Discussion: Round 1 / Using Ki All Messageboards
Recent threads in Ninja Discussion: Round 1