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"What was your favorite magic weapon? Did it have a name? Did it have a theme? What were the mechanical qualities? Was it optimal?"
I did not, however, ask, "How should I deal with the proliferation of throwaway magical items so that my characters can have the same weapon throughout their careers?"
I've never had a favorite magic weapon. So it could never have a name, theme, or be optimal. You know why?
My characters throw away magic items that are no longer useful to them. So naming them is a waste of time. Changing the identifier '+1 front scimitar' to 'Frostclaw' does nothing. Making 'Frostclaw' into something that makes sense for my character to keep does.
Your condescension to people in this thread denigrates the quality of your post and the thread in general. If you want me to continue to contribute to this thread, and in response to the questions you ask, you will have to moderate your tone. Otherwise, I will feel I am wasting my time.
"What was your favorite magic weapon? Did it have a name? Did it have a theme? What were the mechanical qualities? Was it optimal?"
I did not, however, ask, "How should I deal with the proliferation of throwaway magical items so that my characters can have the same weapon throughout their careers?"
I've never had a favorite magic weapon. So it could never have a name, theme, or be optimal. You know why?
My characters throw away magic items that are no longer useful to them. So naming them is a waste of time. Changing the identifier '+1 front scimitar' to 'Frostclaw' does nothing. Making 'Frostclaw' into something that makes sense for my character to keep does.
Your condescension to people in this thread denigrates the quality of your post and the thread in general. If you want me to continue to contribute to this thread, and in response to the questions you ask, you will have to moderate your tone. Otherwise, I will feel I am wasting my time.
Never? so what would it take for you to want to keep 'Frostclaw' for example? What makes the item useless to you?
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Finding a weapon with a better plus on it makes it useless eventually. Sure I'll keep the old one for awhile as a backup. Until the main one gets replaced and replaces the backup.
Making a magic item scale with character level instead of being locked to one level would go a long way to fixing this problem. It's half the reason I prefer monks, because unarmed strikes actually scale a little.
What he is saying is when he has a +1 frost scimitar and comes across a +2 shock longsword, he drops the old weapon and gets the new one. He constantly upgrades.
Thats one style of play.
Our current party is about to level to 10th. The Ranger still doesn't have a main magic weapon (his off hand is a kukri of wounding)
I put a +2 Huntsman's Dwarf Axe in the treasure tonight because he was, well 10th level without a main magic weapon ( and suffering in combat because of it)
The Magus has "Wave Cutter" which in our campaign is a +1 keen falcata with some other abilities, which is pretty much his favorite weapon, he got it because he had a feat available to use it. It has been a pretty nifty weapon.
The Ronin's Katana (which is a shatter spike) is pretty iconic as a katana that can cut through nearly anything (sunder) and is a of yet un-named. He's about to pick up gloves of dueling that will help with that sundering too.
Wave cutter came with a name on it, but in our campaign most weapons get names if something happens with them.
"OrcBane" when you keep rolling crits fighting orcs and it doesnt happen with other enemies, or "Dull Peice of Crud" was a sword that constantly missed (which is funny because when the player used another weapon like a bow, he hit, when he used his sword he always rolled a 3 or something)
Generally the weapons are getting named for something that happens ingame and usually has nothing to do with their abilities, if they have some special purpose or powers already, they usually have a name that comes with the item, like wave cutter did.
the sword i mentioned was an heirloom (as per the trait) and i had to name it. the DM ruled at the time that heirlooms had to be unique.I too insist on heirloom items being named.
i can understand heirlooms needing names. but i also beleive that rare magic items should require backstories too.
i spent 40 hours writing the character as a whole (down to backstory and rough family tree) and the uniqueness of her weapon
the character didn't last past 3rd level.
after a complete lack of magical treasure for 6 levels, at 7th level, the party finds a few large powered items that are too overpriced for thier good that the DM refused to give backstories too unless they were part of a module.
one item he included was a +3 flaming frost ghost touch abberration bane adamantine dwarven waraxe for the 8th level dwarven axe and board fighter. problem is, that such a weapon would be so unique it requires a backstory. too bad the DM didn't give it any. i beleive that this is also a waste of a +7 super weapon.
he tends to once per campaign when a character seems to be permanent, bestow them with a conveniently placed custom ultimate weapon. usually countless levels above the actual PC's ability range. and owning such weapons is a relatively drastic power boost. he never gives these weapons more than a name. and never fleshes them out.
IMO any meele combatant that's worth his/her salt has named his/her weapon.
This.
the dwarven fighter who got that axe is another player in my saturday game. he always plays the same dwarven fighter. he only changes the name. but i remember him always using the same gear and the same suboptimal build. he always ends up with a seemingly free true ressurection twice per campaign.
IRL I saw a mortar tube in the army with "Steel Rain" painted on the tube and our company had a .50 Cal machine gun everyone called "Big Ma" because for whatever reason it felt like it was heavier than all it's identical twins.
For whatever reason, when the hummer with "Big Ma" on it pulled up and started shooting, the enemy retreated. Every time. Doesn't matter how many 50s were already shooting.
kinda funny.
My RL m-16 that I had when I was in the 82nd I called "barbie" because unlike everyone's else's rifle that said it was mfg'd by Fabrique Nationale, mine said it was mfg'd by mattel!
Barbie was the only m-16 we had, everyone else had an m4, but I liked the full sized rifle, so i kept it.
Sometimes, it's really fun to have the current story BE the weapon's backstory.
Just as the names of my longbowmans quiver and bow were handled. Sure they were arbitrarily named in the beginning. But by the time we hit 15th level just the rumor of Martin and the Storms Furies (the bow, quiver, and his wide range of magic arrows) being located inside a cities walls was enough to turn an armies thoughts to easier targets.
Or so the NPC bards claimed. The story lines at that point dealt with arrogance and pride as major foes for the PCs,
I named my Orc double axe I like the name for one reason
On my turn I state I pull out Boe and charge enemy the party is face palming some even ask why I pulled out a bow when I have explained before it's the axes name
i find it humorus when u get that one type of player that wants to play everyones charcters getting mad about me "plating wrong" he normaly says something rude then feels dum when I start swinging with my +1 vicious double Orc axe
I plan on naming all my weapons at some point
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If we may tangent a bit, how could we make interesting cursed weapons that MAKE the player want to keep it rather than relying on remove curse...
I've had a few ideas on just that subject. What immediately came to mind was adding powers to the weapon that offset *some* of the curse, such as a weapon dispells a buff from the enemy, but deals you damage.
What I may end up doing is catering to a player's vanity, making the weapon known and feared, but it veers away from vitals of it's own accord.
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3 pages in and nobody has yet mentioned #30 Unique Magical Blades? Personally, I think every magic weapon should ideally have a story and a name - each one was made by someone for a specific customer. Not that the PCs need to learn every story, but having them discover a few such stories as they gain treasure makes the world feel more real. IMO.
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Jayne:: Six men came to kill me one time. And the best of ‘em carried this. It’s a Callahan full-bore auto-lock. Customized trigger, double cartridge thorough gauge. It is my very favorite gun.
Mal: [exclaims in Chinese] You offering me a trade?
Jayne: A trade? Hell, it’s theft! This is the best damn gun made by man. It has extreme sentimental value. It’s miles more worthy ‘n what you got!
Mal: What I got? She has a name.
Jayne: So does this! I call her Vera.
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Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser each named their blades.
From Wikipedia:
"Fafhrd commonly uses a longsword which he names Graywand. He also carries a poignard named Heartseeker and a short hand-axe which has never been named. The Mouser also fights with a pair of weapons: a rapier called Scalpel and a dirk called Cat's Claw. The latter is balanced for throwing. As the pair are often divested of their property, these are names they apply to any of their appropriate weapons and not names of specific ones."
If the game is more about the players and less about the throwaway magic items, just upgrading to the new sword and keeping the old name seems like an easy fix.
Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser each named their blades.
From Wikipedia:
"Fafhrd commonly uses a longsword which he names Graywand. He also carries a poignard named Heartseeker and a short hand-axe which has never been named. The Mouser also fights with a pair of weapons: a rapier called Scalpel and a dirk called Cat's Claw. The latter is balanced for throwing. As the pair are often divested of their property, these are names they apply to any of their appropriate weapons and not names of specific ones."If the game is more about the players and less about the throwaway magic items, just upgrading to the new sword and keeping the old name seems like an easy fix.
Wait really? I guess I missed the fact that these were never the same weapons....
If the game is more about the players and less about the throwaway magic items, just upgrading to the new sword and keeping the old name seems like an easy fix.
Or allowing the old sword to gain properties over time. Maybe your party defeats a bandit king with a flaming weapon and you say the fighter's sword shatters his with the final blow, causing the +1 keen sword to become a +1 flaming keen sword and cutting out an appropriate amount of treasure from the loot your party recovers. This would be good if you knew exactly what your fighter wanted to get in a weapon, since instead of having him constantly recover new weapons as he gains in power the weapon he's had all along just becomes the weapon he wants to have.
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Never? so what would it take for you to want to keep 'Frostclaw' for example? What makes the item useless to you?"What was your favorite magic weapon? Did it have a name? Did it have a theme? What were the mechanical qualities? Was it optimal?"
I did not, however, ask, "How should I deal with the proliferation of throwaway magical items so that my characters can have the same weapon throughout their careers?"
I've never had a favorite magic weapon. So it could never have a name, theme, or be optimal. You know why?
My characters throw away magic items that are no longer useful to them. So naming them is a waste of time. Changing the identifier '+1 front scimitar' to 'Frostclaw' does nothing. Making 'Frostclaw' into something that makes sense for my character to keep does.
Your condescension to people in this thread denigrates the quality of your post and the thread in general. If you want me to continue to contribute to this thread, and in response to the questions you ask, you will have to moderate your tone. Otherwise, I will feel I am wasting my time.
well, my 22nd level dwarven fighter has a few dozen +1 weapons at his home. He carries a +3 Brilliant Energy Flaming Burst Bane (Outsider-Evil).
Krome was banished from his home for a forbidden love. The woman he loved was betrothed to the general of a nearby clan. Their secret liaisons were discovered and brought shame to one another and their clan. To avert a bloody feud she was given to the general as a slave and Krome was to be executed by the clan's Highlord himself.
Yet the clan's Highlord was also Krome's beloved grandfather. In the quiet of the night before Krome's scheduled execution and hunched over old man opens the doors to Krome's prison cell. He beckons the condemned dwarf to follow quietly. Krome was amazed that they passed no guards as they made their way through the fortress.
Standing before the great gates the old man pulled back his cloak revealing himself as the Highlord, Krome's grandfather. "I cannot kill you Krome, you are my grandson and my joy. But you have brought shame and ruin upon your people. You can not stay here." He looked away with a heavy heart. "I banish you from your ancestral halls forever. Go forth and found your own clan, Krome. And never return under pain of death."
The two warriors and kin embraced. As Krome began his unexpected journey his grandfather stopped him. "One more thing, Krome. Take this." The old dwarf held forth a gleaming dwarven waraxe of copper and steel. "This is Flammeherz, the axe of my grandfather's grandfather. Regardless of your actions, you still represent all that is the best of us. Now, go. Never look back."
Krome took the waraxe and clutched to his chest. A warmth seemed to fade away from the axe like a ghost passing through the night. A moment a later the axe glowed softly and its temperature matched perfectly to Krome's. Krome took his bonded weapon upon his journey. First stopping at the General's fortress, intent upon saving his beloved. He found her crucified above the gates as a traitor. Flammeherz tasted blood that night as Krome slaughtered the tyrannical general. The act set Krome free and his journey has taken him many places, it has brought him many foes, but through it all there has only ever been Flammeherz.
Under the new ownership of Krome the weapon reverted to a masterwork dwarven waraxe. Through more personal rituals the weapon grew in power along with its new master. The bond between the two ignited new powers never before manifested in this particular weapon but now forever identified with Krome and Flammeherz.
Riddle me this,
In most campaigns the GM lets you sell the 'sword/mcguffin' for 50% of its value, max. That's all 'that guy down the inn' will give you for it.
What I wanna know is how come my characters are never 'that guy from the inn' able to buy cheap magic items at a mere 50% of retail?
Riddle me this,
In most campaigns the GM lets you sell the 'sword/mcguffin' for 50% of its value, max. That's all 'that guy down the inn' will give you for it.
What I wanna know is how come my characters are never 'that guy from the inn' able to buy cheap magic items at a mere 50% of retail?
Because as an adventurer, you're likely trying to get rid of it quickly (unless you want to sit around for YEARS waiting for someone with the thousands of gold AND the interest in THAT SPECIFIC magic item) so you practically give it away in order to get paid AT ALL.
Yeah but along with Shifty I can never recall the time where the GM had a guy siddle up to me, open a trench coat, revealing a scabbard and say in a hoarse whisper "Wanna buy a sword +1? Owned by an elderly paladin and only used on holy days..."
Half price for you today only my friend, cash only, no reciept, no sales tax, no worries.
You'd think with the metric truckload of +1 swords etc being ransacked daily you'd be able to score a few bargains at the Inn, or maybe even a discounted sword from the pawnbrokers....
Where do all the second (third fourth fifth) hand swords go that keep getting sold? Why does everyone have to buy a new one?
Is there some sort of Government run protectionist legislation in place keeping the poor magic weapon industry alive artificially by restricting our capitalist freedoms finding lowest cost bargains by price fixing and eliminating the second hand goods market?
You know its bad when even the 'Thieves Guild Local' wont sell you a stolen sword, except at full price.
Yeah but along with Shifty I can never recall the time where the GM had a guy siddle up to me, open a trench coat, revealing a scabbard and say in a hoarse whisper "Wanna buy a sword +1? Owned by an elderly paladin and only used on holy days..."Half price for you today only my friend, cash only, no reciept, no sales tax, no worries.
You'd think with the metric truckload of +1 swords etc being ransacked daily you'd be able to score a few bargains at the Inn, or maybe even a discounted sword from the pawnbrokers....
Where do all the second (third fourth fifth) hand swords go that keep getting sold? Why does everyone have to buy a new one?
Is there some sort of Government run protectionist legislation in place keeping the poor magic weapon industry alive artificially by restricting our capitalist freedoms finding lowest cost bargains by price fixing and eliminating the second hand goods market?
You know its bad when even the 'Thieves Guild Local' wont sell you a stolen sword, except at full price.
For organized play I can understand the Full Price/Half Price only thing. It keeps things consistent from table to table.
In private play the sale prices should be guides lines.
In my games You could sell an item for anywhere from 10% to 200% (or more) of its value; depending on how well you haggle, how rare the item is locally, etc...
Buying items same thing applies. You could buy an item for anywhere from 50% to 300% (or more) of its value. Based on the same parameters.
For organized play I can understand the Full Price/Half Price only thing. It keeps things consistent from table to table.
In private play the sale prices should be guides lines.
In my games You could sell an item for anywhere from 10% to 200% (or more) of its value; depending on how well you haggle, how rare the item is locally, etc...
Buying items same thing applies. You could buy an item for anywhere from 50% to 300% (or more) of its value. Based on the same parameters.
My own rule, been using it since 3.5.
The two parties make an opposed diplomacy check for haggling.
Whoever wins adds 5% per point they won by in their favor, up to 25%. If one side critically fails or critically succeeds (1 or 20 on the check) then the maximum adjustment is 50% (Minimum sale price 5%).
So, when selling items, you get 25% to 75% on a normal roll. If you critically succeed at the check, or the buyer critically fails, and still win then you get up to 100% of the item's value. If you critically succeed, and the buyer critically fails, you get 150% of the item's value. If you critically fail, or the other guy critically succeeds, or both, you get 5% of the item's value.
I see no reason for the magic items to have names in the rules. The DM can name them if he wants to. I do that most of the times - but then again I would never give them players a plain +1 or +2 longsword - I would always give it some kind a special ability that could give the play a small advantage or disadvantage ... or maybe just someting funny.
For organized play I can understand the Full Price/Half Price only thing. It keeps things consistent from table to table.
In private play the sale prices should be guides lines.
In my games You could sell an item for anywhere from 10% to 200% (or more) of its value; depending on how well you haggle, how rare the item is locally, etc...
Buying items same thing applies. You could buy an item for anywhere from 50% to 300% (or more) of its value. Based on the same parameters.
I tried this with my players, and they didn't like it. They got excited by a few of the deals (picked up a bag of tricks for 25% off - probably the magic item with the most "history" by the end of the campaign), but mostly they were just annoyed that the prices were unpredictable.
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I tried this with my players, and they didn't like it. They got excited by a few of the deals (picked up a bag of tricks for 25% off - probably the magic item with the most "history" by the end of the campaign), but mostly they were just annoyed that the prices were unpredictable.
They were annoyed that the prices weren't fixed? This is a roleplaying game, not a video game the last time i looked...it is supposed to emulate the real world to an extent, including price fluctuation among other things.
yea alot of people get bent out of shape about having "fixed prices" in the book. "It says in the book I can have this for X gold"
We solved that years ago by using "The Silver Standard", which means in any adventure where it says you find old pieces, you find silver pieces.
When you sell stuff, you get it's value in silver pieces. When you buy mundane items (like adventuring equipment, a night at the inn, food) that's in Silver pieces as well, but MAGIC cost GOLD.
Characters can still FIND magic, and if they craft magic it still costs that amount in gold, but if they SELL it they sell it for that amount in SILVER.
they can still get rid of rare or special magic items and sell them for gold, especially at higher level, but they have to find the right buyer.
A King might pay well for the recovering of the +3 Flaming Longsword once carried into battle by his fallen Grandsire, the Troll Chief of the Frozen Wastes might part with some of his hoarde for the elf slaying large battle axe, found a staff of power? The wizard in the dark tower to the east may wish to purchase that from you for the right price.
But collecting wands of web and +1 rings and hoking them are never going to let you build up sufficient wealth to "purchase" your Christmas tree of goodies you have "planned out".
The silver standard works well for us.
When we play, if someone takes the 'rich parents' trait, we instead convert the silver they have as starting money, to gold.
I like generic +1 weapons, they work just fine. I like having the choice to get my +1 weapon upgraded. I don't have the time or energy to worry about the magic item economy, and how doesn't make any sense at all.
I go with the flow and things are much easier for it. The party finds random treasure; the party divides said treasure (more or less equally.) The party sells unwanted random treasure for 1/2-retail. The party divides cash. Individual PCs go shopping and pay full-retail for items of their choice.
It's not perfect, far from it. Don't even think about what the local farmer makes in a year. Worry less about the economy, have more fun playing the game.
I like generic +1 weapons, they work just fine. I like having the choice to get my +1 weapon upgraded. I don't have the time or energy to worry about the magic item economy, and how doesn't make any sense at all.
I go with the flow and things are much easier for it. The party finds random treasure; the party divides said treasure (more or less equally.) The party sells unwanted random treasure for 1/2-retail. The party divides cash. Individual PCs go shopping and pay full-retail for items of their choice.
It's not perfect, far from it. Don't even think about what the local farmer makes in a year. Worry less about the economy, have more fun playing the game.
It's not about the local farmer, It's about getting control of the customizing min-max of choosing your own magic items.
Some people don't want to play with tailored made to order magic items.
Some people don't want to play with "everything in the book is available at the local store".
Rare items are fun, and alot of players can use their spells or abilities are used because they aren't eclipsed by readily available "always" on magic items.
It's not about the local farmer, It's about getting control of the customizing min-max of choosing your own magic items.
What's wrong with customizing? Your Fighter specialized in Greatswords, right? He just came across a +2 Spear, right? No one else in the party wanted it? Okay, the Fighter will use it until the groups gets an opportunity to sell it. When they do finally sell it, he can put his cut of the loot towards a weapon that he really wants (+1 Greatsword.)
Some people don't want to play with tailored made to order magic items.
And some people really want their Ranger to have a +2 Composite Longbow (Mighty +2) of Flaming Goodness.
Some people don't want to play with "everything in the book is available at the local store".
Sure, so you go with percentage of availability. I'm sure that either GMG or PCRB has guidelines for that sort of thing. If neither one does, that's kinda sucky.
It's not about the local farmer, It's about getting control of the customizing min-max of choosing your own magic items.What's wrong with customizing? Your Fighter specialized in Greatswords, right? He just came across a +2 Spear, right? No one else in the party wanted it? Okay, the Fighter will use it until the groups gets an opportunity to sell it. When they do finally sell it, he can put his cut of the loot towards a weapon that he really wants (+1 Greatsword.)
Nothing wrong with the scenario you described...
Until the player tells me the GM what is available at what store and when...Would you allow a Player to tell you what is in the BBEGs hoard? or in that locked, warded, and well hidden chest? Or that there is even a locked, warded, well hidden chest in the room for that matter?
Some people don't want to play with tailored made to order magic items.And some people really want their Ranger to have a +2 Composite Longbow (Mighty +2) of Flaming Goodness.
and he can have it, if he can find someone to make it for him (I ban the creation feats in my game).
Some people don't want to play with "everything in the book is available at the local store".Sure, so you go with percentage of availability. I'm sure that either GMG or PCRB has guidelines for that sort of thing. If neither one does, that's kinda sucky.
And if the availabilities are not set the way I prefer them? Do I still allow the player to tell me what is available where in the world I designed just because the "book says so"?
said a bunch of stuff
I'm not telling you how to play your game. I am telling you how I play mine, and that I feel it is perfectly reasonable.
If it's your game, and you're goodly enough to allow your players to participate, then more power to you. As a DM, I like to hear what my players want and to then find a way to make it work, if at all reasonable. If my player wants item X, okay. Let's find a cool way to make that happen.
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I saw the original post and cogitated on the concept for a while. An idea came to me that I thought might mitigate this concern.
It starts with masterwork weapons. There are lots of them but only a certain few made by great masters or by happy accident are worthy of taking enchantments. These enchantments however are not placed upon the sword itself. They are placed upon rare magical gems which can fuse with the weapon and give it additional powers or strike mightier blows.
The rarity and quality of a gem will determine the enchantment it can hold. A pearl might hold a plus one and a diamond might hold +5. But you cannot just throw an enchanted diamond onto a masterwork sword. No, you must work up to it. Start with the +1 pearl, maybe an opal of +3 and then +5 diamond. This can work with any enchantment rubies make flaming enchantments etc...
Now that special masterwork sword can be named and never discarded. It will improve with time to match the wielder's power. It also makes sense to find enchanted gems as not all creatures will have a sword capable of taking its enchantment or them may not even know it is magical.
The idea needs some fleshing out but that is the basic idea.
I think older players who have had years and years of adventuring are more apt to play in a style that is restricted.
Because if you play enough, you find virtually the same characters get built over and over again. Really? another +3 dwarven thrower?
Most older players do no play in groups with "planned" builds. which is almost required in a MMORPG. If you made a mistake and put something in the wrong slot in an online game, often the character is ruined, behind, suboptimal.
Older players are going to prefer a more organic feel to playing. This requires restriction on availability to all magic items in the game.
In the old days (i saw mention of this on another thread) the draw back to running around with a bastard sword is, you were not likely to find a magic one (it was like 5% or something) as most often treasure was rolled randomly.
there is nothing wrong with selling the +2 spear, but often you will find parties that didn't have the magic blunt or magic piercing weapon to over come said monsters DR, and got tooled. Specializing in great sword didnt really help out the fighter now did it.
What you then run into, is, instead of making a world to adventure in, you make a world tailored to the PCs. How convenient that bad guy just happened to have a +3 great sword, or the store just had one on the shelf at the time WBL told me I should have one.
Who Sold an +3 Greatsword? the guy wit the +5 great sword? Who never seems to be around to kick your butt or get to the dragon hoard first, because then his CR would be to high for your Zelda to defeat.
That's exactly why people stop playing with magi-marts and customizable magic items. It kills the fun after you do it the first few times.
Most older players do no play in groups with "planned" builds.Most anecdotes I hear from the olden days state that people were just as concerned with getting the 'right' things for their characters back then as they were today. E.G. Holy Avengers.
that would depend, the olden days also meant (RAW) there were very few paladins at all because they were so insanely hard to qualify for (and rangers for that matter too)
But people just broke those rules because they wanted what they wanted and fudged the scores to play a paladin, so fudging treasure to get a holy avenger isn't much different.
But when you've played 3 paladins all with holy avengers, how special is it anymore?