@Riku: Actually I think this has more to do wiht me misreading what it replaced. I honestly thought it replaced the 8th level power. O_o
I guess that should tell you how good it is when it's a 1st level ability that's as good as an 8th. Nice catch.
As for knowledges I think even with the bonuses other classes get YOU are the one people expect to be religious, and YOU are the one who's going to have to know what to planar ally (even though you make it the deity's choice nothing stops you from asking specifically)
The reason why people dont drag wisdom as high is primarily because in terms of offensive spells clerics get between little and diddly squat until later. During and before what you do get is buffs. Lots and lots of buffs some are even personal and kick ass (righteous might). Compare righteous might to something liek say, Flamestrike. There's a few good battle field control spells and even some really good touch attack spells (hence the bad touch cleric) but the best ones are usually buffs or some kind of utility. So, it's really no wonder why I would suggest just drawing your beatstick and taking advantage of the four or five buff, debuffs, you just dropped and laying into people. It saves spells and time.
Noe of course the reason I prioritize rather than specify how things should be done is partly for customization reasons. You might decide that charisma is less important, or that you want to play a dumb brick.
@Erick: Which is why I'm looking into separating it up a bit like treant monks druid guide.
@As much as I love the idea of a Perfect Strike punch to the face with a Slay Living dangling off of it it only functions for monk weapons, so no incentive to take it. I think you're jsut going to have to settle for quickened spell.
I am happy to see the first build be a Bad Touch build.
@As much as I love the idea of a Perfect Strike punch to the face with a Slay Living dangling off of it it only functions for monk weapons, so no incentive to take it. I think you're jsut going to have to settle for quickened spell.
I am happy to see the first build be a Bad Touch build.
I had screwed up doing the feats the first time (did 3.0 style old habits die hard) and had just skimmed APG for replacement. I'll correct and repost if it won't let me edit. If I ever have a chance to not GM for a change, I plan on trying that build out, looks like a lot of fun.
I had screwed up doing the feats the first time (did 3.0 style old habits die hard) and had just skimmed APG for replacement. I'll correct and repost if it won't let me edit. If I ever have a chance to not GM for a change, I plan on trying that build out, looks like a lot of fun.@As much as I love the idea of a Perfect Strike punch to the face with a Slay Living dangling off of it it only functions for monk weapons, so no incentive to take it. I think you're jsut going to have to settle for quickened spell.
I am happy to see the first build be a Bad Touch build.
*Take 3*
*Corrected*
Here's a build I came up with:
Lamashtu's Harbinger of Chaos
Name: Dagny
Contributed by: Jon Kines
Category: Bad Touch Cleric
Description: A master of affliction, debuffing, and wreaking havoc on the battlefield.
Race: Human
Ability Scores: (20 point buy)
Strength: 13
Dexterity: 14
Constitution: 14
Intelligence: 12
Wisdom: 16
Charisma: 10
God: Lamashtu (note if you play in Golarion, Groetus (CN) offers access to the following domains as well which would allow for a CG version of this build should that be more suitable to party makeup)
Domains: Protean, Madness
Alignment: CN
Traits: None
Feats:
1 Improved Unarmed Strike, Scribe Scroll
3 Improved Initiative
5 Dodge
7 Mobility
9 Spring Attack
11 Quicken Spell
13 Reach Spell
15 Touch of Serenity
17 Bouncing Spell
19 Disruptive Spell (note: unlike other debuff spell feats, disruptive does not require the effective spell to deal damage, giving it some nice anti-caster utility for this build)
Equipment: Headband of Mental Prowess, Belt of Incredible Dexterity, Boots of Striding and Springing, Cloak of Displacement, Heward's Haversack, Gloves of Storing, and Metamagic Rods such as extend, silent, and still would all be beneficial to this build.
Spells: Spell selection should focus on debuffs and save or sucks in addition to cleric staples such as lesser restoration so you aren't neglecting your general duties. The Scribe scroll feat is very helpful for helping cover such duties without cutting too heavily into spell selection.
Tactics: Aura of chaos-->best debuff available for the situation or target in question-->Vision of Madness-->Touch of Chaos (at this point you might want to let the Wizard know now would be a good time to blast)-->best save or suck available
I just sat down and read some of the guide earlier today as opposed to just a quick look over. You did a good job.
Updated with 3rd level spells and a different format for ease of reference and updating. Going to take a break from editing it for a week to get soem actual paying work done.
Updated with 3rd level spells and a different format for ease of reference and updating. Going to take a break from editing it for a week to get soem actual paying work done.
Thank you.
For some reason i can't access the domains-subdomains part, it just leads me back to the first page.
For some reason i can't access the domains-subdomains part, it just leads me back to the first page.
Fixed before you even posted. It just wasnt linked correctly.
Nice Work so far.
But... :)
There is one point I don't understand.
6. THOU SHALT LEAVE SPELL SLOTS OPEN: A little used trick in some games is the ability for clerics to not have to prep every single spell slot they have. Instead they can leave some open to keep for the various situational spells they will likely want later. This is not only wise but essential to success as a cleric.
I know this from a Wizards play, but as cleric you have to chose which spells you memorize at the time you chose at your daily meditation time.
PSRD:
Clerics meditate or pray for their spells. Each cleric must choose a time when she must spend 1 hour each day in quiet contemplation or supplication to regain her daily allotment of spells. A cleric may prepare and cast any spell on the cleric spell list, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation.
So they can't leave some slots open or did I miss something?
The answers you are looking for are on page 220 of the core book, 2nd column, 1st paragraph of Spell Selection adn PRepration.
The answers you are looking for are on page 220 of the core book, 2nd column, 1st paragraph of Spell Selection adn PRepration.
Thanks - thats awesome :) *dwarf cleric is happy*
By the way. This is how I support cleric. Screw your puny positive energy channeling fighter boot lickers.
Name: Urgathoa's Prostitute
Category: Support
Description:A Negative energy channeling "healer"
Race: Human
Ability Scores:
Str:10
Dex:12
Con:14
Int:10
Wis:16+2+1+1+1+1
Cha:13+1
God:Urgathoa
Domains: Undeath, Divine
Alignment: N or NE
Traits: None necessary
Feats:
1 Selective Channeling
1 Extra Channeling
3 Command Undead
5 Scribe Scroll
7 Improved Channel
9 Heighten Spell
11 Preferred Spell (Spell of Choice)
13 Reach Spell
15 Quicken Spell
17 Improved Initiative
19 Preferred Spell (Spell of Choice)
Equipment: A Phylactery of NEgative Energy channeling ASAP. Also Plenty of Onyx's. Also get charisma boosting items so you can get more channeles, the more the better. Don't forget soemthign to boost your wisdom as well.
Spells: Animate Dead so you get the biggest benefit from your energy channels.
Tactics: What? A negative energy healer? I must be mad. Nope. I admit I personally despise healing as a role. So I turned it upside down. The PRostitute of Urgathoa "heals" by giving them the Kiss of Undeath before channeling her dark energies into her willing victims. This means you have the best of both worlds, a negative energy channel that lets you command the dead and harm the living while healing your allies. The rest of the build is built around your support role. Being the target of divine magic like buffs allow you to give those nearby a bonus to their rolls, spiffy. Overall a very solid build if you can stand to be on the darkside. This build gets even better with the inclusion of good undead minions to also benefit from your healing
Tarq Good job, I applaud you effort.
I think a cleric guide would be perhaps the hardest one to write, with all the domains and sumdomain selections.
I think someone should compose a bit of a better reference of the gods and domains, even with the books in front of me it takes multiple reads.
I am thinking of making a cleric for PFS, and your guide helped me understand the class a bit better.
So the couple questions I would like to see addressed in the guide.
Mechanics of touch attacks, aoo's.
Can you take a single level of monk to deliver a touch as a unarmed strike.
I think I understand allot of the mechanics of why channeling isn't very great because you can't really raise its effectiveness much. But should turn or command be almost blue. It could be a encounter saver, but only if save is failed.
Do you think a good build could come from bad touch, necromancer,
wis=cha dex con int str would work? channeling neg energy?
By the way. This is how I support cleric. Screw your puny positive energy channeling fighter boot lickers.
Name: Urgathoa's Prostitute
You are my hero, this is how I try to make all of my characters!
I think someone should compose a bit of a better reference of the gods and domains, even with the books in front of me it takes multiple reads.
A section on the gods and their respective stuff is coming. But only the core ones.
Mechanics of touch attacks, aoo's.
I think so long as you are holding a touch spell you are considered threatening therefore you can make attacks of oppurtunity with said touch attack.
Can you take a single level of monk to deliver a touch as a unarmed strike.
Yup, but not recommended.
I think I understand allot of the mechanics of why channeling isn't very great because you can't really raise its effectiveness much. But should turn or command be almost blue. It could be a encounter saver, but only if save is failed.
You literally can't do anything to it to make it better than a cure spell on an individual level. Worse than that is that eventually you get spells that outright surpas it in every way. It's only saving grace is its early level effectiveness adn the fact that it doesn't cost you spell slots.
Do you think a good build could come from bad touch, necromancer,
wis=cha dex con int str would work? channeling neg energy?
Probably not with those stats. It's doable but im a bit tired and hurt to get itno it now.
Thanks for the quick answer Tarq. Getting ready to make a PFS cleric, your guide really caught my eye. I was thinking perhaps a necromancer style cleric with darkness domain not 100% yet. I probably will wait for Ultimate Magic.
4th and 5th level spells have been added.
4th and 5th level spells have been added.
Thank you.
6th and 7th level spells ave been added.
Also I am still looking for more builds so feel free to contribute.
Also I've been seeing a lot of threads asking for "healers". I find this offensive and will address it sometime in the future.
6th and 7th level spells ave been added.
Also I am still looking for more builds so feel free to contribute.
Also I've been seeing a lot of threads asking for "healers". I find this offensive and will address it sometime in the future.
I'm busy DM'ing Carrion Crown, but will submit a few more builds when I have the chance. Our cleric did a rather nice battle cleric of Gorum build and I have some ideas of my own for others.
TarkXT, love your guide. Wish you'd written years ago when I started playing a cleric; it would have saved me some grief! A few comments about the spells so far:
1) Heroes' feast. I think you underestimate the value of the bonuses the spell grants. The bonus hp are weak, I agree with you here. But bonuses to fear saves are helpful even with fighters getting the bravery feature. They've certainly helped our party's rogue as well. Losing an hour in the morning isn't usually a big deal, even with our time-sensitive quests. It's not the go-to spell it was in previous editions, but pretty useful IMO. Given the number of creatures at higher levels that can inflict fear in its various forms, it's hard for this spell to be useless.
2) Undeath to death. This spell has 2 things you didn't note. First, it requires 500 gp of gem dust to work. Not much compared to a high-level PC's wealth, but still a factor. Second, it works like circle of death...which is limited to critters less than 9 hit dice in strength. By the time you get this, it'll blast your fodder undead...which you could do with channel energy, a mass cure spell, flamestrike, etc. I've generally called it a necromantic fireball for good reason. Even if you get use out of it when you get the spell, you won't see much in the way of 8 hd undead for long as you continue to gain levels. All in all, not a very useful spell, again IMO.
Keep up the good work, I'm looking forward to the last of the spell sections.
I'll go over those a bit later.
Meantime I've finally gone through and finished the alst of the spells in time for ultimate magic to dump even more work on me later.
I'll go over those a bit later.
Meantime I've finally gone through and finished the alst of the spells in time for ultimate magic to dump even more work on me later.
Maybe you should instead consider it job security? ;p
I'll go over those a bit later.
Meantime I've finally gone through and finished the alst of the spells in time for ultimate magic to dump even more work on me later.
The next campaign I'm playing in, as opposed to GM'ing as usual, I'm going to try a Bad Touch Cleric and a friend is going Witch, that combo should be hilarious.
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Maybe you should instead consider it job security? ;pI'll go over those a bit later.
Meantime I've finally gone through and finished the alst of the spells in time for ultimate magic to dump even more work on me later.
I think job security is only a good thing if you're getting paid for said job. :(
Offensive Channeling can actually be good for a holy vindicator- a good one with alignment channeling can effect evil outsiders as well as undead (which together make up a decent amount of enemies).
Negative channelers can effect even more creatures.
12d6 damage (phalactery) at +5 to the save (glory domain, trait, improved channel) with a free sicken and bleed is decent even if not your BEST option that only costed 1 feat (improved channel)
What about 'alignment channel' you say? Well if you wanted HV then you needed it anyways. The PRC makes a darn good Melee Cleric, ( Divine Wrath/Retribution is nice debuff with Falcata) with the nice channel and bloodfire, bloodrain abilities a nice secondary focus. Free Maximised healing for yourself makes Mass Cure Critical decent (Though mostly for yourself)
As for the PRC knocking down CL, well magical knack is a good second trait. You still get 9th level spells. 'The PRC reduces domain power effectiveness?' Depends on domain, Glory (Heroism) is still a swift action heroism, Good archon still has full effect. rounds per day is decent.
I'll add a pretty strong build soon...
Might be nice if you mention some potential awesome builds for certain clerics
eg A cleric of Gorum makes a great melee cleric between Destructive Smite to boost your standard action attacks. Rage power from subdomain with recklessabandon (free action) and divine power is pretty much the best to hit a cleric can get. Wounding from blood subdomain stacks well.
What would you say is the optimal 15 point buy stat array for a human support cleric? I just can't get myself to decide how much con vs wis.
The next campaign I'm playing in, as opposed to GM'ing as usual, I'm going to try a Bad Touch Cleric and a friend is going Witch, that combo should be hilarious.
Does sound pretty hilarious
@Demoyn: Tell me about it. ;-;
@STR Ranger: The trouble is that that's a holy vindicator, not a cleric. And still it's not that particularly good effect. 12d6 still averages out to be about 42 that can be half. You can deal more damage on average with a full attack. As for builds I'm going to add some. Was jsut looking for contributions.
@Kamelguru: When in doubt get more wis.
STRENGTH
10 (+0)
DEXTERITY
8 (-1)
CONSTITUTION
14 (+2)
INTELLIGENCE
10 (+0)
WISDOM
18 (+4)
CHARISMA
12 (+1)
Racial bonus went into Wisdom obviously. I don't think you'll be playing with too many combat feats so try to focus more on spellcasting and using your domain powers.
The next campaign I'm playing in, as opposed to GM'ing as usual, I'm going to try a Bad Touch Cleric and a friend is going Witch, that combo should be hilarious.Does sound pretty hilarious
@Demoyn: Tell me about it. ;-;
@STR Ranger: The trouble is that that's a holy vindicator, not a cleric. And still it's not that particularly good effect. 12d6 still averages out to be about 42 that can be half. You can deal more damage on average with a full attack. As for builds I'm going to add some. Was jsut looking for contributions.
@Kamelguru: When in doubt get more wis.
STRENGTH
10 (+0)
DEXTERITY
8 (-1)
CONSTITUTION
14 (+2)
INTELLIGENCE
10 (+0)
WISDOM
18 (+4)
CHARISMA
12 (+1)Racial bonus went into Wisdom obviously. I don't think you'll be playing with too many combat feats so try to focus more on spellcasting and using your domain powers.
@Kamelguru if it's a Golarion campaign and you have access to Groetus, you can be a support cleric with some nasty debuffs. He has access to darkness, madness, chaos, and void (off the top of my head) and is CN so CG is viable if that's a demand of the group. To top it all off, a CG support cleric of the God of the End Times, with madness and void domains, could make for a really fascinating character. Just my 2cp if you wanted something with a little panache.
The next campaign I'm playing in, as opposed to GM'ing as usual, I'm going to try a Bad Touch Cleric and a friend is going Witch, that combo should be hilarious.Does sound pretty hilarious
The debuff stacking/save or lose's will get pretty disgusting, especially since we have someone else planning to add insult to injury with a court bard.
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Holy Bully
1. Barb1 ... fight with a big two-hander w/extended threat-range.
2. cler1 (Strength domain)
3-6 cler+3 and barb2 (quick reflexes rage power)
7+ Holy Liberator
Result: BAB-1 behind full melee; 3/4th cleric spellcasting ability.
Feats: Channel Alignment (required for HL), Channel Smite (you get it for free at HL5th, but you miss all the fun if you wait that long), Extra Channeling (if you dump your CHA too much), Quicken Spell (makes getting off Enlarge faster), Scribe Scroll (if home-game), Power Attack, Vital Strike (because your schtick is massive single attacks, usually after moving -- this is ideal if opponents usually deny full-attacks anyway), Cleave.
Skills: Perception through the roof. Else to taste.
Trait: Precocious Spellcaster (Enlarge Person).
The Holy Vindicator was for the multiclass/prc section of the guide.
Besides it's not just 12d6. It's a burst/line/cone that can hit multiple enemies at the same time, without hitting allies and layering sickened and bleeding for free.
Like i said not your BEST power, but decent since you get channel for free.
The full BAB, Stigmata, Vindicator's Shield and me maximised self healing screams Battle Cleric.
Channel smite adds 12d6 and sickened/bleeding on your standard attack- nice (again this class is more powerful on negative channelers)
Wielding a High crit weapon or Falcata (with say staggering crit) makes Divine Wrath/Retribution pretty sweet as well.
It's the total package that makes it worth it.
This guide convinced me to drop my plans for an illusionist and try out a cleric. I'll be trying out an archer support cleric, and comparing him as a buffer to my bard in another game. Hope it works out well!
Good guide!
I disagree with some spell ratings. First one that stuck out was Sound Burst. How is this not blue? Fort save to stun in an AOE? That's amazing! Even if it's only for a round, they drop their weapon, can't make attacks of opportunity allowing for people to move into position, and a severe hindrance to their AC. Absolutely butchers casters with poor fort saves and mobs of mooks. It's only slightly less awesome than Glitterdust, IMO, which is one of the best spells for its level in the game.
You also don't even mention Holy Smite, which is really badass for a 4th level spell. The only one of that line of alignment smashing spells that sucks is the anti-good one. Greater Command should be Blue IMO.
Linkify the feats/spells/etc and I will give this guide a thumbs up. I was thinking of making a cleric guide myself so I guess this might save me the time.
Good guide!
I disagree with some spell ratings. First one that stuck out was Sound Burst. How is this not blue? Fort save to stun in an AOE? That's amazing!
It also allows for spell resistance, deals marginally more damage than a crossbow and less than a burning hands on a failed save, has a tiny radius, has a save to negate its stun, and you have to cast it within charge range of most things. You're better off slapping someone with Hold Person and removing them from the fight completely.
You also don't even mention Holy Smite, which is really badass for a 4th level spell. The only one of that line of alignment smashing spells that sucks is the anti-good one.
I lumped them all under Alignment Blast since they all do essentially the same thing. And again, spell resistance, short range, save, requires a specific target for full effect, etc. etc. When they work, they work, when they don't I'm questioning why you didn't cast Blessing of Fervor.
Good guide!
I disagree with some spell ratings. First one that stuck out was Sound Burst. How is this not blue? Fort save to stun in an AOE? That's amazing!It also allows for spell resistance, deals marginally more damage than a crossbow and less than a burning hands on a failed save, has a tiny radius, has a save to negate its stun, and you have to cast it within charge range of most things. You're better off slapping someone with Hold Person and removing them from the fight completely.
You also don't even mention Holy Smite, which is really badass for a 4th level spell. The only one of that line of alignment smashing spells that sucks is the anti-good one.I lumped them all under Alignment Blast since they all do essentially the same thing. And again, spell resistance, short range, save, requires a specific target for full effect, etc. etc. When they work, they work, when they don't I'm questioning why you didn't cast Blessing of Fervor.
Yes...all save or lose spells require a save. Your point? That's not a drawback it's simply an observable quality. If Sonic Burst didn't do damage it'd still be awesome, so why would you point out what lousy damage it does? Hold Person is 1)single target 2)will save 3)also has a save and SR so...yeah. 10-ft area burst is as much of an area as Glitterdust, again, one of the best spells in the game. Forcing a save or lose to all or even half the enemies in a combat in round 1 is a pretty solid tactic IMO.
Also, blessing of fervor is excellent but also 90% of its function is negated once people buy boots of speed.
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Yes...all save or lose spells require a save. Your point? That's not a drawback it's simply an observable quality. If Sonic Burst didn't do damage it'd still be awesome, so why would you point out what lousy damage it does? Hold Person is 1)single target 2)will save 3)also has a save and SR so...yeah. 10-ft area burst is as much of an area as Glitterdust, again, one of the best spells in the game. Forcing a save or lose to all or even half the enemies in a combat in round 1 is a pretty solid tactic IMO.
I didn't look to see how Tark has it rated, but I'd personally rate it green due to the things both you and he have said. I'd also emphasize that it's a second level spell (I see it more like a 1.5 level spell in value). It's a good spell, but it's still slightly limited. Obviously on a battle cleric, due to the lower wisdom, it becomes orange leaning towards red.
For the archer, you ranked Craft Magic Weapons and Armor as something they should consider taking. The reason was Bane arrows. If I'm reading the rules correctly, they would take 8 days to make (+1 Bane Arrows = 8000gp base) and cost 4000 gp. Even if you make only 25, that's still 4 days of crafting time and 2k gold.
Is it really worth that?
For the archer, you ranked Craft Magic Weapons and Armor as something they should consider taking. The reason was Bane arrows. If I'm reading the rules correctly, they would take 8 days to make (+1 Bane Arrows = 8000gp base) and cost 4000 gp. Even if you make only 25, that's still 4 days of crafting time and 2k gold.
Is it really worth that?
Remember that you can effectively double the time it takes to make the group by increasing the DC by 5 making the total DC 18. At level 8 that's easily done. So you can create small batches of arrows for the situations you need in relatively short amounts of time and even work on some while on the road.
If you're really pressed for time you can simply buy bunches of +1 arrows and cut the time even further. So, you make your arrows based off the situations the group has been facing and this can work with other enhancements like Ghost Touch.
Having your bow carry all your main enhancements while using your arrows for situational things is not a really bad idea. And clerics can get away with quite a bit with their spell list.
Wearing a shield screams battle cleric to you? You should try a real battle cleric with a two-handed sword and see what you're missing!
The full BAB, Stigmata, Vindicator's Shield and me maximised self healing screams Battle Cleric.
Ahh, but I do 2hand a Falcata. To me the extra AC from the buckler is to protect you while you- swift aura of heroism, standard aura of menace (you just party buffed +2 to hit, save and -2 enemy AC), move to close (sucking AOO')
RD:2 swift divine power and proceed to kick a$$.
I've begun a bit of work discussing the individual gods found in the core book.
I've begun a bit of work discussing the individual gods found in the core book.
Quick question Tark, for submitted builds do you want core Gods only? Groetus, from the Inner Sea Guide, CN (God of the End Times) with access to Chaos, Darkness, Destruction, Madness, and Void Domains with favored weapon Heavy Flail is really tempting for a debuff/battle hybrid. That domain list and favored weapon combination quite literally has endless potential. . .
I've begun a bit of work discussing the individual gods found in the core book.Quick question Tark, for submitted builds do you want core Gods only? Groetus, from the Inner Sea Guide, CN (God of the End Times) with access to Chaos, Darkness, Destruction, Madness, and Void Domains with favored weapon Heavy Flail is really tempting for a debuff/battle hybrid. That domain list and favored weapon combination quite literally has endless potential. . .
Well Groetus is from ISG, not core, but this is how I would support cleric.
Groetus' Hand of Fate
Favored Weapon: Heavy Flail
Race: Human
Build: Support
Wis: 18
Con: 12
Str: 12
Dex: 12
Int: 12
Cha: 12
Domains: Protean and Madness
Feats:
1 Heavy Armor Prof., Tougness
3 Scribe Scroll
5 Turn Undead
7 Extend Spell
9 Power Attack
11 Furious Focus
13 Combat Casting
15 Heighten Spell
17 Preferred Spell
19 Persistent Spell
Strategy:
Start out cycling party/self buffs as situationally appropiate before going into the fray. Vision of Madness on greatest threat followed by touch of chaos followed by best save or lose (kindly inform your arcane caster that now would be a most opportune time for him to do likewise). After that is taken care of, use aura of madness and aura of chaos to turn the battlefield into a comedy of errors, and flank buddy the melee striker to mop up with furious focus & power attack.
And now the Gods portion is done. Will be working on the Multiclassing/PRC section until I get my copy of UM to peruse.