One of my longest running players and a friend for more than 15 years is definitely in the "Eric the Cleric" and "Richard the Ranger" category. He has never made a character that had more backstory than..."I'm level 1. Talk to me in 10 levels and I'll fill you in." However he's an absolute hoot to game with, makes solid choices while in game, and we wouldn't trade him in for a newer model. We just have to roll our eyes and cringe each time we sit down for character generation.
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GM: This is all very well and good but what is such an obviously experienced crime lord doing in Irissen and why, pray tell, is he 1st level!?
This is the reason I have difficulty providing backgrounds for my characters, especially the younger races (humans) who are literally just leaving home or school for the first time. Do you really want me to steal bits and pieces from 'saved by the bell' or {insert random high school drama movie}? I'm much better at using a personality than generating a background.
The above quote is almost exactly what I ended up with when using a background generator ("Central Casting") for our current Kingmaker game and I think it set me up for a bit of disappointment as a "minor gang leader" that still has no lackies at level 4. Game mechanics simply don't allow for it without breaking something or playing a house-ruled (altered summon list) Summoner of some kind.
BTW, "Amnesia"... *guilty*, but in my defense the character is for all intesive purposes a superhero in a dwarven paladin body, his personality is The Tick. (Not at all original, but extremely fun.) He need a superhero origin, it's honestly the first time I've ever used "Amnesia", it never really played into anything anyway, the group is happy to have their silly and very outspoken meatshield.
(I got a few giggles and a LOT of blank stares, LMAO!!)
I just like disturbing characters... TV TROPES LINK
This link is awesome, I highly recommend browsing that site for ideas if you get stuck in a rut. It goes a long way towards helping find/role-play a personality. I think I latched onto it the last time you posted it.
I also like disturbing characters, but usually the part that's disturbing to everyone is just how SIMPLE they are.
By far 3 of my all time favorites.
I'd like to point out that the opposite is also just as annoying sometimes.
What I mean is this kind of exchange
Player: Here's my character background
GM: It's 12 pages long...
Player: That's OK I'll give you an overview. You can read the whole thing later.
GM: Oh goody. *sigh* Go on then, what's the idea?
Player: OK so the character is called Vedrin Arness. He grew up on the streets of Absolom and soon fell in with the thieves guild. If you flick to page three that outlines the main power structures of the guild and appendix 1 gives a detailed spreadsheet of all the various income sources and outgoings of the guild.
GM: *rustle rustle* "Charitable donations?" "Leather polish costs?"
Player: That's tax deductable. Anyway, so Vedrin is a Capodecima which means he is in charge of a crew of 10 Sgarrista or footsoldiers for the uninitiated. This folder contains backgrounds and areas of expertise for all 10. I have colour coded any reference to them in the core background as well as making page references as appropriate. Appendix 2(a) details the activities of Vedrin's crew broken down by week, month and year.
GM: Er... Dave?
Player: Moving on, Appendix 2(b) details the main successes of Vedrin's crew...
GM: Dave?
Player: ...and his ingoings and outgoings in gold pieces as that appears to be the monetary standard...
GM: DAVE!!!!!?
Player: What?
GM: This is all very well and good but what is such an obviously experienced crime lord doing in Irissen and why, pray tell, is he 1st level!?
Player: Ah well, if you turn to page 6...
GM: *groan*
I would high-five this guy and tell him we'd rewrite the campaign so that this all worked out.
I'd kill his cohorts off, but I would read the 12 pages.Moox
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Hey what is wrong with the amnesia angle?
The Borne triology atarts out that way. Why not my PC Bason Jorne....
Or ManBat have you seen my cool adventurers sash and all the great gadgets I keep in it, and check out my cape and black leather armor....
did you say grappling arrow?Archer that is green archer
you can call me "the green bee"
I have a character on a homebrew horror campaign who is an inquisitor expelled from his holy order, his name is Ben Velzing.
On a side note, I once sat at a table with three total strangers and the characters they rolled wore:
A half fiend child necromancer
A tiefling rogue noble born who's famile had made a pack with a demon that she was supposed to marry on her 16th birthday (and she could hardly wait for it)
And a serial-killer drow elf warlock who worshipped Tharizdun.
I never came back for the second session. And boy i was so sorry for that GM.
A group of us are playing a one shot game during a break from my RotRL campaign. Four of us are playing halflings.
summoner Barnabus
eidolon Chonz
Druid Quinn
companion Martin
Bard Jemrok Fore
Not certain what the cavalier's name nor his horse are going to be.
Would welcome suggestions. He did not like Fronk and Gannon.
Greg
While less of an issue, what would you suggest for a player with ideas, but is rather timid about expressing them since the rest of the group is significantly more experience and close knit?
There are ideas, but just not a good method of bringing them up.
As a GM, I take a personal interest in the backstories of the players. I tend to pull each one aside and discuss their backstory with them. I do this for two reasons. One, in case someone wants something in their backstory to remain a secret that only they and the GM know. Two, so that I can work to help them flesh out their background, to either fit my homebrew world, or to get them out of their shell.
With just the GM they feel less embarrassed by stuff they may think others might think is silly. That way you can encourage and guide them at the same time.
At the table, if there is a shy or quiet player, I tend to call on them for opinions. Like if everyone is stating their opinions/plans and the one is speaking. I ask them outright what they think.
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While less of an issue, what would you suggest for a player with ideas, but is rather timid about expressing them since the rest of the group is significantly more experience and close knit?
There are ideas, but just not a good method of bringing them up.
As a GM, I take a personal interest in the backstories of the players. I tend to pull each one aside and discuss their backstory with them. I do this for two reasons. One, in case someone wants something in their backstory to remain a secret that only they and the GM know. Two, so that I can work to help them flesh out their background, to either fit my homebrew world, or to get them out of their shell.
With just the GM they feel less embarrassed by stuff they may think others might think is silly. That way you can encourage and guide them at the same time.
+1
That also has the advantage of curbing peer pressure affecting character choice for more timid players.
A swashbuckler named Errol'dar Flynn'tagnan. Not my proudest moment.
Okay, so I got pretty lazy with my first character.
Made him a scythe-wielding cleric named Zasalamel. When I GM'd, he ended up becoming a BBEG that ended up getting whirlwind/lightning bolted to death.
Which comparatively, was a lot less creative than my friend's orc barbarian (deceased), Aaahnald Gruntnoise (Aaahnaldina after being reincarnated as a female dwarf).
I have players that would tell me, "Just roll something up for me." The really expected me to do almost everything except roll for them. The there is my roomate who has played the same ranger, not matter what he has named it, since 1984. He rolls up new characters, but they always end up being the same character.
I have to admit that my wonderful and beautiful wife of nearly 18 years falls in this category. She plays in the game because she loves me and she likes the rest of the guys, and it's a social occasion (and they play at our house). But she refuses to read rulebooks and is hopeless at character creation. So I usually create her characters for her, explain how to use her feats, skills, weapomns and spells, and then she plays them pretty well.
Her current character is a female elf ranger archer build that I made for her. Her name is Noname, as in No Name and she has no background that I haven't given her. Sigh.
I love her anyway.
I've found the Gary Gygax's Extraordinary Book of Names to be immensely helpful to players stumped for a name (or when I have to wing an NPC name on the fly). Heck I even named my daughter from this book.
For backstory I tend to use as many of the tables in Dave Graffam's Expanded Character Module for WFRP 2nd Edition as needed to get the creative juices going with a couple die rolls. But then again WFRP tables won't work for everyone's tastes. I just have a GM crush on the stuff Dave makes from my years running WFRP.
Of course even with these tools I still have to deal with my darling compadre naming his characters after things he sees in the room and giving them backstories of "he's a dude that is kind of tall and probably around my age."
You just can't fix some gamers' desire to sit in a chair and roll dice and "leave story to the GM". Doesn't mean we can't try ad nauseum though :) !
GM: So what does your character look like?
Uncreative PC: ...
GM: ...
Other players: ...
Uncreative PC: Me?
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I still havent see a reason why, aside from the fact that it makes you the DM unhappy, I should bother making up a background for Tanky McMeatshild, who's sole purpose for existence is releasing the frustrations that I cant act out in the real world without going to prison.
Im here to play a game: kill some orcs; loot, booze, and wench like Im Charlie Sheen; Do all the things that are impossible in reality.
Why do I want to write a short story? Thats too close to work. If I was gonna bother, I'd do it right, and then send it to a publisher for bank.
GM's tend to get immersed more in an adventure just because of the prep time involved. Plus, if we adopted the "meh, loot, meh, whatever I wanna roll dice" attitude no one would have fun and they'd complain or stop playing with us. So as a GM its nice to know that you're not the only one putting forth the effort. Some get more torqued off than others. I'm probably middle of the pack. You're groups mileage will obviously vary.
I still havent see a reason why, aside from the fact that it makes you the DM unhappy, I should bother making up a background for Tanky McMeatshild, who's sole purpose for existence is releasing the frustrations that I cant act out in the real world without going to prison.
Im here to play a game: kill some orcs; loot, booze, and wench like Im Charlie Sheen; Do all the things that are impossible in reality.
Why do I want to write a short story? Thats too close to work. If I was gonna bother, I'd do it right, and then send it to a publisher for bank.
Because, although for you the character is just a method of releasing frustration, for others at the game (often the GM) he is an involved part of the story of the world and of the heroes.
As a GM, I incorporate each PC's backstories into my villians, quests, goals. This is so that, while playing, they get a sense of being tied into the world. It may not mean anything to you, but it seems to mean a lot to a fair number of other players.
A backstory doesn't need to be a page or a short story, look at any of my PC aliases and see that the longest may be like 3 paragraphs (mostly small ones). If just a paragraph of backstory is too close to work, then maybe TT RPG's may not be the best medium for you to use to release your frustrations. It doesn't even need to be written. As I posted earlier, I talk all my players through the process, and if they can't come up with anything I throw in a few examples/suggestions.
Mostly it just helps the GM know where the character is coming from and where they are going, and allows them to convey that sense of immersion into their game.
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I've played with the same group for years. Some joined and most left but always the same core group. I know there styles very well and try to cater to them when planning a session.
First off not everyone is creative or needs to be. They are there for you to unfold the world for their character. The only thing I ask my players is where do they want to go with the characters (not necessarily a physical location). From there everything unfolds.
I find the back story a hindrance. You always have the player trying to incorporate some family boon to be collected as way of "My fathers +2000 kill em' all sword of instantaneous death". The history that cause the player to have more enemies than Spider-Man (I know some of you get that one). There’s is also the ever present history that packs more adventure than a 1st level character can justify. Its too open ended of a question. Once you answer it all before hand there is nothing left to discover.
Now don’t get me wrong. I want my players to take a interest in their character but a detailed history is not the answer. If you have a name and a reason for why you are where you are at this moment. Great! Lets begin. That’s what its all about where you are and where you are going.
Ask your self if given the opportunity to adventure right now. Does it matter where I came from? You will find all that matters is where you want to be.
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I actually introduce people to gaming as often as I can, and so most of the groups that I GM for are filled with new players. Naturally they are reluctant to create their own back story and character details.
My own personal theory, with no evidence mind you, is that video games are to blame for the lack of creative character details and background. Almost all video games have built in details and back story for the characters played, and those that don't have character back stories never really require them. Almost any roleplaying done in video games where back story is supposed to be fabricated by the players is due to groups of roleplayers using the game as a backdrop or stage.
But I digress.
So, I have a good deal of new gamers in my groups. Most of them never really create back story, character description, or other optional details. I never require it of them either. What I do instead is offer clear rewards. Have some character drawings? Reward. Have a short back story written up? Reward. Role play a moment where you talk about your past or act in a way that brings your character life? Reward.
What this does is give the players incentives to think outside of their own box. I never punish them for playing cardboard character, because they are new and are trying to learn the game.
I have a different expectation from experienced players though. If someone has played with me enough that I am confidant they no longer need to worry about learning how to play the game I actually ask them questions about their character before we roll up a character. I ask them what type of character they want to play, and then start asking them questions about the background of that character. I don't go into super detail, but just enough to start them thinking about the background. For example I might ask them why the character chose that class, where he trained, and a few questions related to why he will be joining the adventuring party.
Starting traits in Pathfinder really help out too. One player started with no concept, but once he looked at the traits he had a whole backstory planed out.
The last method I have used to help players play more unique characters is one that I borrowed from the Mouseguard RPG. In that game background is part of character creation. Where you are from, your parents, your friends, an enemy, where you trained, what you were trained in, who trained you, and other details are required at character creation. I am borrowing from that a great deal in a game I am currently setting up.
In this game, I asked the players lots of questions about their character, and then with that information I crafted unique classes for them. The game is a modern setting game, but requires that all the major characters have unique and unpredictable abilities. With the background information I was able to see what abilities, skills, and feats the character should have at any given level. On top of that, I threw out alignments and replaced them with character philosophies and personal goals.
This unique character system has only been done with experienced roleplayers though. It would be a little overwhelming for new players. However, I have been able to use it to break a couple players from their normal archetypes and tendencies to make things up as they go.
Okay, my rant is done. Continue as you were.
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Just thought of a player I once had. He could not wrap his head around the concept of RPG's. So after explaining it to him for over an hour he finally got it or so I thought.
He had no background because he took something I told him while explaining RPG's to him and ran. I said to him that he could virtually be anything and do anything he wanted. So he decided he would be a rock.
Not some sort of rock monster, but a normal run of the mill everyday rock. I explained that he could not do this because it severely limits him and besides there’s no stats for a rock other than the damage it would do if thrown. He didn’t want to hear it and was very stubborn about it. So I said fine! Then gave him a proposition. If he could tell me how he came to be an intelligent rock I would allow it. So he came up with a generic I was turned into a rock by a wizard story. I asked why did this wizard do this and he replied because I slept with his daughter. Not wanting to prolong the agony I said fine your a rock. Lets start.
I go on and set the scene. I get to the point where I ask the players what do they do. The rock player says I do nothing because I'm a rock. sighs all around. I get to one of my players who response to me is I pick up the rock and skip him across the water. The rock player angrily shouts why did you do that? The other players just says calmly Well you see my character lost his dad at a young age. You see, skipping rocks across the water is the only memory he has of him and you looked like a good skipping rock.
My own personal theory, with no evidence mind you, is that video games are to blame for the lack of creative character details and background. Almost all video games have built in details and back story for the characters played, and those that don't have character back stories never really require them. Almost any roleplaying done in video games where back story is supposed to be fabricated by the players is due to groups of roleplayers using the game as a backdrop or stage.
Video games and TV. Seriously! Its sad how those who suffer its effects will never know until they remove themselves from it.
I don't know. Personally, I find it hard to write a whole lot of background for a character until I know where I'm going with it, myself. Usually, I start with a really crisp character idea that really springs out in my mind... (a character design, if you will) and then, once I've played them for a few sessions, I get a good groove going on for the character and can improvise background answers when asked that sort of gestalt into a coherent past.
Maybe it's because I'm a cartoonist at heart, and think in terms of visuals and ideas that read well quickly but are open to development.
Video games and TV. Seriously! Its sad how those who suffer its effects will never know until they remove themselves from it.
The cartoonist thing is probably also why I kind of object to this kind of blanket statement. Anything in excess is bad, but really, there's inspiration to be found in any medium.
I come across this kind of thing quite a bit, since my players have a very high turnover rate (military life, hard to keep a group together); that, and these players rarely want an in-depth character experience. They're usually more concerned about the reward for defeating opponents (two very common questions are 'how much XP was that?' and 'how much XP do I need to level?').
I've found, in my switch to Pathfinder from generic 3.5, and in using Adventure Paths for material, that character traits are a lifesaver. They give nice little bonuses that any player would want, and also nice little hooks for me as a GM. I get to have my players detail how the trait specifically applies, or how it came about. As long as they've chosen two traits, I've got enough to run with.
I also like to include the players in the descriptive phase of things. I have too much fun with combat descriptions to let go there (so far), but non-combat interactions are up for grabs. For instance, in my current group we're running Curse of the Crimson Throne. The party is a dwarf fighter (crossbowman archetype), a human witch, and a half-orc cleric of Gorum. The witch got cornered by an angry mob (the player had a decent backstory about her getting run out of Cheliax for witchery, and one of the mob members recognized her). The half-orc had to do the talking, since he had the highest base charisma and nobody trained any social skills. Instead of just accepting 'I use Intimidate,' I made the player give me examples of what he was trying to say; having to switch from 'I'm big and hit hard' to 'I have to have a reason for what I do' has helped the character move from 'toon' (as an MMO term) to 'character'.
Anyway, to specifically address this thread, the dwarf has no name, and a charisma of 8 - I took this to mean he's completely unnoticeable. Every time we got around to this player's actions, he started with 'I shoot the guy;' we spent quite a bit of time explaining how suicidal that was, with three first-level characters up against a 20-person angry mob. So, instead, he turned to Intimidate rolls - not as 'aid another' actions, but more along the lines of Steve Carrell in 'Anchorman' shouting 'LOUD NOISES!' just to get attention (he rolled high enough that some mob members actually did point at him, and this made him happy), and his character was suddenly less of a 'toon' and more of a 'character' as well.
Now that I've wasted your time with that largely pointless (but fun for me) anecdote, the point is, if a player didn't bother writing in a lot of details, I like to use context clues from their actions or character sheets to fill in the details I need to satisfy my personal 'RP' itch. I usually preface it with a quick 'If you don't mind me speaking for your character for a moment,' the player usually doesn't mind. It's helped a few people who are moving from the MMO scene to begin to think in-character, or at least give them some parameters to work with for actual character involvement.
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The cartoonist thing is probably also why I kind of object to this kind of blanket statement. Anything in excess is bad, but really, there's inspiration to be found in any medium.
Video games and TV. Seriously! Its sad how those who suffer its effects will never know until they remove themselves from it.
I agree with Drakli here actually. I never said video games are bad, I just said that players are more used to being handed all the character details before and during their play experience.
TV on the other hand is not interactive, as it expects the audience to just sit and watch.
In this case, the biggest difference is the Fourth Wall and how it is used. With video games the players take on a role of an actor (sort of) and so they are expected (most of the time) to pretend they are the character and are brought just slightly into that Fourth Wall. With TV, there is no player, just audience, and all the actors are together on their side of the Fourth Wall.
In a way, TV is great for roleplaying as it provides a source of inspiration. I actually played a character based on Patrick Jane in The Mentalist, and a Spartan after watching Terry Schappert's Warriors. Both sources also helped me create back story as well. This is not to say that video games can't be used for inspiration but I think there is a higher chance of the, "I already played that character," mentality with them.
Oh, one last thing. I love cartoons. They rock.
My group is mixed. Some of the folks love the roleplaying and will give me more character backstory and detail than I could ever possibly need or use with the slightest encouragement. Others are more focused on the mechanics and the gameplay and have to be coaxed even to come up with a name and place of origin. As a GM, I love backstory, as it gives me interesting hooks with which to involve my players more deeply in the campaign world, so I encourage all of the players to develop at least a rudimentary backstory I can work with. We're currently playing Kingmaker, an unusual AP with a lot of potential for roleplaying that practically screams for more character development (story-wise, not mechanics-wise) than most campaigns. It takes place over years, if not decades, and there is a lot of down time between adventures. I use the character background to enliven that down time and move the main plot along. This rewards the players who do a good job with their backstories by giving them moments when the camera is focused on them. I prefer that to giving XP for backstories/roleplaying.
Examples:
-- The female sorcerer Baroness from a noble background is being overrun by relatives looking to take advantage of her newfound status to get good positions in the government/favorable trade concessions/advantageous marriages, etc.
-- The dwarven general with connections to the 9th Battalion is being pressured by dwarven leaders to give special considerations to dwarves in the new kingdom.
-- The rogue spymaster with a bandit past has been approached by former acquantances who want to set up a Thieve's Guild in the new capital.
-- The paladin of Erastil/Grand Diplomat is being pressed to get married and start a family by his socially conservative church.
All of the players involved are really enjoying these subplots and it is enriching the game a lot for them. I've also been able to link each of these subplots to the main plot in a way that moves the campaign along.
I understand some players and groups just aren't that into the roleplaying and creating backstories. IMHO, that's too bad, as they aren't taking advantage of everything the game has to offer, and are missing out on a lot of potential fun.
Sabrina Niccoletti
Aristocratic Catgirl Vampire Sorceress.
i took a base human sorceress, threw on a pair of cat ears (no tail), and gave her 'vampire disease' while making her nobility. when she eloped with a vampire, something happened, that caused a delayed conversion to kick in.
her father owned a shire and a massive drug plantation. bought his way into nobility with money from potent opiants he discvoered. her mother left because daddy cheated on her with a vampire courtesan. which made him one, he converted his only child. he eventually gets discovered and assassinated by a wandering swordsman he hired as a bodyguard. in attempt to not only confirm things, but out of a hatred towards vampires, the country sent Sabrina by boat to a desert country, with a weeks worth of supplies, she passes out from fatigue but half a mile away from a town. gets dragged by a few newly recruited guards who mistook her for a drunk and locked her in a cell. she meets up with a drow wielding a pair of oversized gunblades. they escape without the guards even caring and go adventuring, meeting a pair of half giant barbarians and eventually, Sabrina elopes with a vampire that the party had encountered early on.
and actually, Sabrina wasn't even a loli. if i remembered correctly, she was around 19 or so. she had a petite frame, at 62 inches and 107 lbs. but underage, she was not.
in fact, she was part of my tuesday group (still 3.5 edition), and will likely reappear when the party completes the current campaign and continues with a new one. i even got permission to knock off vampire traits to reduce ecl. i got it reduced to +2 ecl (instead of +8) by dropping children of the night (the summon thing), alternate form, and dominating gaze. the inherent weaknesses are enough to justify the reduced L.A. heck, the 3.5 MM1 drow in the party got his ecl waived. and so did the 3.5 XPH half giants. we had a rainbow scaled half dragon who was given free racial hit dice to counteract her ECL. the half dragon was played by a guest who tried to instigate stuff.
my tuesday group once it gets going can be potentially more fun than my saturday group. Tuesday Tony allows all kinds of wierd stuff and balance isn't really cared about too much. and the R.A.W. has been beaten to a bloody pulp several times. certain creatures without constitution scores are now treated as having specific 'effective' constitution scores case by case that cannot be further augmented. these are usually valued sensibily. prior race, class, and social station are factors in these 'effective' constitution scores.
Tuesday Tony's games are usually taken a lot less seriously. because it's also a meeting of a bunch of guys who graduated the same high school.
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The rock player says I do nothing because I'm a rock. sighs all around.This guy is awesome. What happened after he was tossed in the water?
The session continued as he just pretended to communicate with fish refusing to make a new character. I did however make random rolls to see if by some off chance he gets plucked from the depths. It never happened.
At the end of the session to give his character closure I made up a story where in the lake dries up in the far future and the area becomes a quarry. His character ends up being ground up and used as gravel on some road of no particular importance. He was happy with this.
Nice. Would love to have that guy in our group.
Be careful what you wish for...
Anything in excess is bad, but really, there's inspiration to be found in any medium.
I'll drink to that.
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I had a player that always wanted to play either an evil orc, or an evil goblin warlord. The orcs name was always Gant, same backstory and all. Of course after he finally played a new concept it turned out to be a perverted, sleazebag elf, who decided to try and rape another PC.
Note I said "had" a player.
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I'm the guy who writes epic back stories. One of my characters currently has -- well, only six or seven page of back story per se, but that doesn't include the family tree going back three generations, with stat blocks for most of them. And independent backstory for his siblings, parents, and mule Eglantine.
^_^;
In my defense, the mule only got a paragraph. Or two.
Not trying to out do you, but I have to admit (and possibly go to a group therapy session for this,) that I recently did way more.
The character that I am currently playing has a narrative back story of roughly 15 pages and counting. I still need to write about four or five major events that I have brought up in the game's role play moments.
On top of that, the DM let slip that he was descended from this guy who lived roughly 700 years before, so I made some calculations and figured 28 generations, and even named several of the ancestors. I don't have stat blocks for any of the family, but that is because my DM forbid me from creating them.
The character has a Figurine of Wondrous Power, an Onyx Dog to be exact. The dog, which has been named, has been in the family from that ancestor 28 generations ago, so he has some back story as well.
The father, mother (now deceased), wife (now deceased), best friend (missing), family of wife and friend, and possible rival (missing) have all been named and given some history. Once again, the DM wouldn't allow me to create their stats.
I also drew up the characters family crest, and what his armor and weapons look like. I took all that a little further and drew up examples of his fighting style.
That wasn't enough for me so I searched high and low until I had found a miniature I liked and I learned how to paint just for that miniature. It ended up looking really good in the end.
This is possibly a bit much, but I really really want to build a shield exactly like the one the character carries.
Yeah... I may need professional help.
Edit: I am not the type to become emotionally attached to characters. So even though all that seems obsessive, I in no way will freak out if this character permanently dies in the game. There have been a few times where death was really close, like two points away close. In those instances I was still enjoying the game and was even thinking about the next character if I needed to roll one up. I have seen people cry when their characters die, it is ugly. I don't want to be ugly.
There's nothing wrong with being a little uncreative; being original is a difficult task on its own and quite frankly isn't 100% possible. Creativity doesn't strike me as something that can simply be acquired, so one shouldn't bash those that borrow from other fantasy elements and cliches. Laziness on the other hand, is a genuine issue.
I feel it should be in a GM's responsibility to help PCs fit into their world, especially when it gets down to specifics. My issue with the "12-page background story" is that the PC is essentially making the GM's world for him, at least as far as that character's experiences go.
I am horrible at making backstories. I never come up with something that captures what I want to play. Working with someone though, my characters start to come alive. I like to get with the GM before game and work with him to make something that really fits the campaign and the world, and I am good at expanding on things once I get the seed.
As to the pages of backstory, I have no problems with it. Its not like any of it has to be things that the character has accomplished. Motivations, goals, rivalries, loves, family. These things all take up space but do not necessarily put the character outside the range of 1st level.
This level of backstory can run into issues though. I have a friend running a slow progressing campaign that just hit mid levels, when alot of backstory tends to show itself. One player is dominating screen time, and the DM couldn't figure out why for a while. Then he went back through his early notes and found the original character backstory. The player dominating screen time has 4 times the information that any other character has. When you work backstory into the main story, you have to be careful with these things.
Overall, I think a good backstory tends to have 3 things.
1. It describes the motivation of the character and why they are where they are.
2. It gives the character something special. It makes them unique to the world in some way. This can be anything from mysterious power, a definitive personality, a responcibility, or a position. Somehow, the PC is important in some way.
3. It gives the character one or more contacts/organizations in the game world that they can interact with. I find 3 to be about ideal. One they can ask for help, one that will likely ask them for help, one that is somehow opposed to them. There are plenty of other types, but I find this works well. The goal here is to tie them into the world arround them.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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I'm sorry, but 12 pages of backstory for a 1ST LEVEL PC has a place in my house. The place is the shredder we keep under the computer desk. I wholeheartedly agree that most of the PCs background/story will be determined in play. Kingmaker was a wonderful example. The players rolled up their characters, picked a few traits, and that was enough for us to run with. They developed into quite unique individuals over the course of the campaign.
Anything over a short paragraph is wasted effort. You just need to give both players and DM a steer to work with, the rest follows easily.
Did I say anything about this being a 1st level character? I have been playing him for 10 levels and all that I posted grew out of that play.
When I started at 1st level the back story was this:
Trainer in his family martial arts school. Fighting style is based on Greek Spartans. His wife was murdered. He has a figurine of wondrous power as an heirloom item. He looks like a Greek Spartan, is tough, and reserved but intelligent in his speech.
As the game moved along, the GM and I worked together to bring parts of the background to light. The first major detail was the character's Father and the fact that my character still lived in the family manor. From there, as I brought ideas and questions to the GM the back story grew into what it is today.
I totally agree with you about the steer. That is really all that is needed, and in my case that is how all that crazy character stuff started.
However, if I GM a game and someone writes up 12 pages of back story for a 1st level character I would not throw it out and tell him that was too much. First rule of improvisation (and in my book roleplaying) is no avoid saying "No" as much as possible. What I would do is read it, make some notes on it, and give the player those notes. If I felt there were details that the player shouldn't have made up, I would let him know what changes would need to be made.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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...As to the pages of backstory, I have no problems with it. Its not like any of it has to be things that the character has accomplished. Motivations, goals, rivalries, loves, family. These things all take up space but do not necessarily put the character outside the range of 1st level.
This level of backstory can run into issues though. ... The player dominating screen time has 4 times the information that any other character has. When you work backstory into the main story, you have to be careful with these things.
Overall, I think a good backstory tends to have 3 things.
1. It describes the motivation of the character and why they are where they are.
2. It gives the character something special. It makes them unique to the world in some way. This can be anything from mysterious power, a definitive personality, a responsibility, or a position. Somehow, the PC is important in some way.
3. It gives the character one or more contacts/organizations in the game world that they can interact with. I find 3 to be about ideal. One they can ask for help, one that will likely ask them for help, one that is somehow opposed to them. There are plenty of other types, but I find this works well. The goal here is to tie them into the world around them.
+1 to all of this. I love the three points in the end. They are great points to consider when writing up a past history.
The back story that I am writing up (the 12 pages and counting) has been a really difficult project, and I honestly can say that I have feared the GM telling me something was was going to be horribly wrong. So far, only a few of the minor details were incorrect, but none of the major stuff. In the end, the story has not made my character any more powerful, but explains motivations and reasons for how he has acted.
For example, there is a part where my character kills a rival when discovering the rival trying to rape a friend (and future wife) of the character. The rival is part of a small noble family, he is raised by his family, but punished by exile. My character though agonizes over what he has done, hates himself for it, and vows to never kill a man in anger again.
This gave me and the GM a couple things. It gave my character a reason to be the rational voice in the party when a couple PCs started vowing to kill NPCs for no reason other then "they are evil," and it gave my GM a rival to use against me if he wanted one.
The drawback of my 12 pages is that I have to be really careful not to use it to overshadow the other party members. However, our GM is really awesome and has a major side story for each PC. He has also agreed to tell me if I am being a spotlight hog.
I have players that would tell me, "Just roll something up for me." The really expected me to do almost everything except roll for them. The there is my roomate who has played the same ranger, not matter what he has named it, since 1984. He rolls up new characters, but they always end up being the same character.
My brother has been doing this since we started playing two years ago! He absolutely refuses to play any other class. He's recycled the same two characters for every adventure we've run too. It bugs me to no end that he'll write up ten pages of new backstory just so he can play the same guy in every dimension.
I'm not the best with character names, but I do roleplay the concept I had in mind. Larry the Druid was probably the lowest of the low though.
This is a bit of a tangent but on the DM side of things I try to make backstories up for my NPCs and most magic items I introduce go one or two paragraphs in length. That's also my opinion on the perfect length for a level 1 PC's background, and I'd much rather have the player write up a motivation and personality than a long backstory.
My theory is that the motivation is the most important thing for a character, villain, or even monster to have. If someone's character has no reason for being or goals to move towards than it is hard to tie that character into the setting. Likewise, if an important villain or monster doesn't have a legitimate reason for its actions, even if it's a stupid reason, than the monster or NPC is no more than filler.
Second, personality and outlook are important, since those two facets of the character shape how they view the world and will interact with it. Both of those should probably change during a campaign as the character develops, but it is still important to have a starting point for them.
Finally, least important, is the backstory itself, especially for a level 1 character. True, the background helps shape the character's motivations and personality, and a few hooks can be tied into a background, but anything more than a couple paragraphs is overkill, and anyone who spends multiple pages talking about their character has gone too far for my taste.
I agree that lack of creativity can sometimes be a good thing. On more than one occasion, I've had people start out very uncreatively and end up with some very fun characters.
Ex. In the 3.5 days, I had someone who literally wrote their backstory as the Dread Pirate Roberts (Specifically Cummerbund). However, the twists he took with it were very fun. He was a pirate, and after his piracy, he became a rich, happy man until finally getting bored and returning to piracy under the name Scar (due to all his battle-scars). He was immediately attacked by the newest Dread Pirate Roberts and murdered. His soul traveled to the Astral Plane, where he was given a choice by the Elan Council: go to the 9 hells for his crimes, or be revived as an Elan to redeem himself. He chose the latter, and thus we had "Scar the Elan Kineticist", who had once been the Dread Pirate Roberts.
Right now, he's itching to play "Torq, the "half-orc" Shielded Fighter". He was born to a human mother who married an honorable orc chieftain. Unknown to the chieftain, she was with child before ever meeting him, and when Torq was born, he thought the boy his own. However, neither Torq nor any of his "orc" brethren have brains enough to realize he's actually a green-skinned, green-haired gnome. He has an amulet that gives him massive orc-tusks (which he thinks just grew of their own accord) and wears the fur of a yeti he slew to earn his place in the tribe (I'm allowing him to use the yeti claws as natural attacks, if he wants).
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On another note, someone noted that they don't like getting attached to characters because, too often, the concept doesn't jive with the GMs campaign. I know that I usually inform my players ahead of time what sort of campaign I'm going to be running, even going so far as to write up a 1-2 page summary of the situation so far (if the story calls for it). I tell them things like "This is going to be mostly sandboxy, with a lot of open fields and forest adventures" or "the majority of games will probably be dungeon crawls" or even "big battles"/"lots of subtext and mystery, not much combat".
Do other GMs do this? Or do they usually keep their campaigns a secret before the game starts? I find the background on the adventure really helps the characters come up with backstories of their own.
Ex. The "amnesia" guy is part of a game that is starting quite simple: "Ex-Paladin and evil MotherF!@#er _____ has taken over the land and become a tyrannical emperor. A resistance has been growing for 3 years, and you're about to launch your first major assault against one of his head generals, and your team is a special advance team meant to take the general out personally while the army essentially provides cover. Lots of travel in this campaign, and a good mixture of diplomacy and combat. Mostly indoor environments."
Simple description tells you all you need to know.
A) You are part of the resistance, so have a reason for that.
B) You're not just a standard soldier. You're part of the advance super team.
3) Lots of travel encourages a decent survival or knowledge (geography)
D) Mixture of diplomacy and combat means at least 1-2 of the party members need to have social skills, and all should be competent combatants.
5) Indoor environments discourages the use of large monster races and large companions/mounts, as well as nature-based classes.
I've decided that, since he's not giving me any backstory now, I'm going to make some for him, and reveal it slowly. He's a dhampir urban ranger (using a rifle), and I've decided that prior to his amnesia and joining the resistance (about a year ago), he was, in fact, one of the evil emperor's top assassins.
Should be fun.
-The Beast
I had a guy that would ask for as much information in my homebrewed worlds as possible. There isn't a problem with this of course, a person deserves this to help flesh out the character. The problem being that I'd detail out all the things I thought he'd like. Instead I'd always get "Here is <name> the rogue. I built him the same way I've always built rogues." (Not a real problem...save that was all this guy would play. Halfling Rogue that "had to be stealthy").
I tried to help him out of the rogue shell and created a player guide for the next campaign when he asked if I could make one. The guide had overviews of the 5 cultures he could come from, how the races fit in, and how each culture viewed the classes. This was not very long, about on par with the ones Paizo has put out. Came to me with a Human Knight, I was impressed, till I asked him why he choose it. "Oh that was the first thing I read in the guide and never read the rest of it."
That's the guy that annoyes me the most. The one that wants all the info but doesn't do anything with it. I'll take the guy that makes "Bob the Fighter from no-name town looking for adventure" because you can slowly get them to build on the background with the questioning, or in the course of the game they start RPing and start to get into it so their next character isn't just "Bob".
I know it's a bit off topic, but people do game for a lot of different reasons. For some it's a creative outlet, for others it's more like recreation. When I DM (or GM) I try to give the players what they want out of the game while still making a decent story out of it. I do think, however, that a player who's not willing to get into his character a bit is probably not getting as much out of the game as others. Basically, when it's not their turn to do something with dice, they're sitting back letting the rest of the story unfold around them.
with weekly william, once we complete the current module. he agreed to take a gander at the fetchling. i had an idea for a fetchling duelist.
i borrowed a lot of cliches and a suspicious amount of mary sue quality luck.
i just happen to be looking for why a fetchling duelist of chelexian descent (in ustalav) would be a scimitar wielding 'dervish' of the dawnflower. and why such a fetchling would love the sun so much she died her silvery white hair a metallic sheened golden blonde color. if she could get ambery hued golden contact lenses, she would. this is one odd contradiction of a character.