SO, my question is which is better, a Greatsword (2d6, 19-20 x2) or a Large-Sized Dwarven Waraxe (the obvious proficiency to allow it to work, -2 atk, 2d8, x3)?
Assume an 18 Str (giving a +6 overal dmg) and a "to-hit" of an 11.
(Bold added by me)
Comparing a martial weapon to a racial exotic weapon is gonna make things wonky. If the character isn't a dwarf, then he's going to have to spend a feat to wield it properly -- a feat that a dwarven character, or any other character wielding the other weapon, could spend on, say, Power Attack or Critical Focus or Improved Critical, all of which improve the amount of damage possible. Not necessarily apples and oranges, but definitely Braeburns and Fujis. The only way to compare them straight across the board is going to be to assume that the wielder is a dwarf, which isn't always the cae.
Well, if you are gonna combine feats/abilites that dont combine, why not just make a wepaon that does what you want?
or take 2 level of alchemist ferral mutagen
1d8 bite attack
enlarge 2d6 bite attack
improv nat attack 3d6 bite attack
strong jaw poition 5d6 bite attack
Vital Strike Chain
20d6 Bite attack ;)
but its probabaly not exactly the flavour your looking for ;)
So, I've come to the crossroads of trying to find THE all-time best melee weapon for a 2-H Fighter variant, in preparation for absolute high dmg and combo with crit feats. Standard fighter aspirations, ik.
Anywho, it comes down to three options, and I'm stumped. Before I tell you, let me layout the picture:
I want to combo the weapons with Greater Vital Strike AND Deadly Stroke (so additional 4 dice of dmg for one atk). I don't want to get into logistics of "no, you can't use them together!" or other debates; mainly just keep that combo in mind.
SO, my question is which is better, a Greatsword (2d6, 19-20 x2) or a Large-Sized Dwarven Waraxe (the obvious proficiency to allow it to work, -2 atk, 2d8, x3)?
Assume an 18 Str (giving a +6 overal dmg) and a "to-hit" of an 11.Which would, in the end, prove to be consistantly higher dmg? Please, give all comments, opinions, insight, what-have-ya.
-Also, to just throw in a monkey wrench, what about a TWF Fighter Variant, with the Two-Bladed Sword? No penalties for TWF, 1d8, 19-20 x2. How would that compare to the winner of the above? I know the TBS would beat out the Greatsword in the beginning (and be worse off the higher the opposing AC), but what do you guys think?
-BustShitz
You forgot to insert the falcata. 1d8 19-20(before keen) x3(multiplier)
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I think the thing to keep in mind with the Falcata is that it is an exotic weapon. Unless your DM is being kind or someone has the crafting feat finding them in magic form or made out of a different material could be problematic unless you are doing a custom one off from a vendor, which also could be pricey. That is how we play them at our gaming table, great weapon but your options are going to be a bit limited when upgrading.
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Go ahead and make it a Large-sized Falcata (2d6, 19-20/x3, -2 to hit). It's just 2 damage average short of a large-sized Bastard Sword, but the triple damage on crits is gonna rock your world.
Alternatively, go for a Falchion if you plan on adding critical hit feats to the roster, as more crits = good.
Deadly Stroke doesn't work with Vital Strike. It is a fact, there is no arguement. You don't need to combo them, since Deadly Stroke has a requirement of being stunned or flat footed, means that the DPS will not be consistant.
Focus on Vital Strike Tree, Power Attack, Furious Focus, and a Falchion.
Greater Vital Strike requires BAB of 16. So, we need to be at least 16th level.
Assume a starting strength of 18, +4 for level adjustments, and a +6 enchancement from belt gives us a 28 strength (+9 modifier).
Overhand Chop and Backswing allow us to use double the strength modifer to damage. Greater Power attack lets us double the bonus from power attack (-5,+10). Weapon Training gives us +3 to hit and damage.
Allow for a +4 weapon.
Heirloom Weapon Trait; Reactionary Trait
1 Weapon Focus: Falchion
f Power Attack
f Furious Focus
3 Improved Initiative
f Weapon Specialization: Falchion
5 Iron Will
f Vital Strike
7 Improved Iron Will
f Greater Weapon Focus: Falchion
9 Improved Critical: Falchion
f Critical Focus
11 Improved Vital Strike
f Greater Weapon Specialization: Falchion
13 Toughness
f Bleeding Critical
15 Blinding Critical
f Greater Vital Strike
Sub out any feats you don't want.
16 bab,+9 str,+4 wep,+3 wepT+,2 wf,+1 trait= +35/+30/+25/+20
If you are focusing on a single attack using vital strike, you always will power attack (-0,+10)(no penalty because of furious focus).
+35 melee (8d4+39) 15-20/x2 average damage is 59 with a 30% chance to crit. Crits deal an average of 103 with a +39 to hit.
Given the same feat spread with a great sword deals (8d6+39)(67 avg). A crit deals 113 average, with a 20% chance to crit.
Dwarven Waraxe deals 8d10+39 (84 average). Crit deals 183 average 10% of the time.
I'm fairly sure on my math. The Falchion crits nearly one in three attacks. The greatsword crits once in five, and the Waraxe one in ten.
10 attacks over 10 rounds. at least one crit from each attack
Falchion: 7 hits, 3 crits; avearge 722 damage (most consistant)
Greatsword: 8 hits, 2 crits; average 898 damage
Waraxe: 9 hits, 1 crit; average 939 damage (highest output)
4 attacks over 4 rounds. Represents a more standard combat
Falchion: 3 hits, 1 crit; 280 damage
Greatsword: 4 hits; 268 damage
Waraxe: 4 hits; 336 damage
The Waraxe is the front runner in damage output. You will crit more with the falchion, therefore, you will apply the critical feats more often.
10 attacks over 10 rounds. at least one crit from each attack
Falchion: 7 hits, 3 crits; avearge 722 damage (most consistant)
Greatsword: 8 hits, 2 crits; average 898 damage
Waraxe: 9 hits, 1 crit; average 939 damage (highest output)
Why do you have the Waraxe hitting more than the other weapons?
Why do you have the Waraxe hitting more than the other weapons?
His maths are unclear. He is saying that 10 hits, the waraxe is getting nine regular strikes and one critical. Not that it hits nine times and one of those is a critical. The logic here in general seems a little flawed however.
To the OP. Falchion is better if you want to take the critical feats because you are going to critical more often. The large waraxe . . . get a scythe. No attack penalty, two damage types, and don't forget the level 19 ability of that two-handed warrior if you are planning for the long game. You will not miss the bonus couple normal hit damage after you get used to the critical.
Devastating Blow (Ex): At 19th level, as a standard action, a two-handed fighter may make a single melee attack with a two-handed weapon at a –5 penalty. If the attack hits, it is treated as a critical threat. Special weapon abilities that activate only on a critical hit do not activate if this critical hit is confirmed. This ability replaces armor mastery.
That will become your bread and butter with a scythe if you are looking for damage. For a -5 you can basically declare an attack a critical. Add to that level 20 ability that allows you to auto-confirm and increases the multiplier to x5. Besides that, Devistating blow is basically a waste with any x2 weapon. Yeah. Scythe. Do it.
Regardless, between large waraxe and a greatsword, I would still suggest greatsword. Attack penalties hurt you. If you like the flavor of the axe, do it. Otherwise get an x4 or 18-20/x2 weapon. x2, 19-20/x2, and x3 weapons without reach are for minions and characters who do not focus on melee. Or take the 19-20/x3 falcata, even a large sized one can be made, because it is the highest DPS possible.