Sorcerer 8th level Spell...


Advice


So Ive been running a Sorcerer on the side ever since our previous one quit the game, and he's about to hit 16th level.
This means I get an 8th level spell. I've both never played a spellcaster near this level, and have little idea what to take. Everything that sounds good might not be.
The catch is it will be only used in one or two battles.

We're running Rise of the Runelords,:
and we're almost on top of Karzoug. I don't want any spoilers (although I have a good idea what he's capable of) and facing off against a high-end caster will definitely skew things.

And 3.5 material is allowed, subject to the DM.
My sorcerer has Spell Focus Illusion and School Power Evocation, with the Arcane bloodline. And I generally epically fail on Spell Penetration rolls, but that's nothing I can help at this point.


We need your current spell list.


without giving anything away I can tell you that all high level casters have trouble dealing with an anti-magic field spell.

if you organise your initative by dealying you can provide a magic shield to the entire party that will protect them during the enemy casters turn and allow them to step out and be uneffected during thier turn , and have yourself go last and move to bring the shield back around them before the enemy goes again.

its not the only way but it is one way.


erik542 wrote:
We need your current spell list.

Probably some horrible selection in here, and some things I've never used, but it is what it is.

1: Magic Missile, Expeditious Retreat, Color Spray, Hold Portal, Shield, Net of Shadows, Identify
2: Mirror Image, Rainbow Beam, Curse of Impending Blades, Delusions of Grandeur, Invisibility, Rope Trick
3: Shadow Binding, Fireball, Dispel Magic, Fly, Haste
4: Dimension Door, Phantasmal Killer, Shadow Conjuration, Shout, Rainbow Pattern, Greater Invisibility
5: Overland Flight, Waves of Fatigue, Feeblemind, Phantasmal Web, Cone of Cold, Hold Monster
6: Disintegrate, Contagious Flame, True Seeing, Greater Dispel Magic
7: Firebrand, Greater Teleport, Prismatic Spray


Symar wrote:
erik542 wrote:
We need your current spell list.

Probably some horrible selection in here, and some things I've never used, but it is what it is.

1: Magic Missile, Expeditious Retreat, Color Spray, Hold Portal, Shield, Net of Shadows, Identify
2: Mirror Image, Rainbow Beam, Curse of Impending Blades, Delusions of Grandeur, Invisibility, Rope Trick
3: Shadow Binding, Fireball, Dispel Magic, Fly, Haste
4: Dimension Door, Phantasmal Killer, Shadow Conjuration, Shout, Rainbow Pattern, Greater Invisibility
5: Overland Flight, Waves of Fatigue, Feeblemind, Phantasmal Web, Cone of Cold, Hold Monster
6: Disintegrate, Contagious Flame, True Seeing, Greater Dispel Magic
7: Firebrand, Greater Teleport, Prismatic Spray

Ok so the 3.5 Spell Compendium is open to you? Dont have mine with me but will check later when I get a chance. Just off the top of my head some really nice 8th level core spells.

Greater Shadow Evocation (Very versitile)
Mind Blank
Moment of Prescience (Never fail peircing Spell Resistance again)


Kalyth wrote:

Greater Shadow Evocation (Very versitile)

Mind Blank
Moment of Prescience (Never fail peircing Spell Resistance again)

Since he'll have a bunch of spell slots to play with (but no spells), I don't like mind blank or MoP -- even though they're great spells, he needs "spamability".

I like greater shadow evocation, but he specifically said he's going up against a caster. He has plenty of spells that target will saves and reflex saves. Disintegrate is his go-to fort save spell, but 3.5 material makes being immune to ray spells very easy.

I'd go with horrid wilting.


meabolex wrote:
Kalyth wrote:

Greater Shadow Evocation (Very versitile)

Mind Blank
Moment of Prescience (Never fail peircing Spell Resistance again)

Since he'll have a bunch of spell slots to play with (but no spells), I don't like mind blank or MoP -- even though they're great spells, he needs "spamability".

I like greater shadow evocation, but he specifically said he's going up against a caster. He has plenty of spells that target will saves and reflex saves. Disintegrate is his go-to fort save spell, but 3.5 material makes being immune to ray spells very easy.

I'd go with horrid wilting.

Moment of Prescience is a great spam spell. Cast it, use it, cast it again for your next encounter.


Kalyth wrote:
Moment of Prescience is a great spam spell. Cast it, use it, cast it again for your next encounter.

Well, you can't have more than one active at a time. And at that rate, you're casting the spell once per encounter.

You can go hog-wild horrid wilting the spellcaster over and over. Untyped damage = ouch. (:

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Symar wrote:
erik542 wrote:
We need your current spell list.

Probably some horrible selection in here, and some things I've never used, but it is what it is.

1: Magic Missile, Expeditious Retreat, Color Spray, Hold Portal, Shield, Net of Shadows, Identify
2: Mirror Image, Rainbow Beam, Curse of Impending Blades, Delusions of Grandeur, Invisibility, Rope Trick
3: Shadow Binding, Fireball, Dispel Magic, Fly, Haste
4: Dimension Door, Phantasmal Killer, Shadow Conjuration, Shout, Rainbow Pattern, Greater Invisibility
5: Overland Flight, Waves of Fatigue, Feeblemind, Phantasmal Web, Cone of Cold, Hold Monster
6: Disintegrate, Contagious Flame, True Seeing, Greater Dispel Magic
7: Firebrand, Greater Teleport, Prismatic Spray

Polymorph ant object, its one of the most versatile fort save spells you can get.


Polymorph any Object is incredibly useful.


I like polymorph any object as well. My only concern would be the close range. If the encounter favors a spellcaster, huge ranges could be a factor.

Another factor is spell turning. . . but both spells are subject to spell turning. What's worse, taking the horrid wilting damage (56 avg. damage) or being polymorphed into a pebble. Hmmm. . .

If spell turning is a factor, you might even want to consider greater shout.


sunbeam wrote:

Polymorph any Object is incredibly useful.

+1


Kalyth wrote:
sunbeam wrote:

Polymorph any Object is incredibly useful.

+1

I vote for polymorph any object. It's one of the most generally useful spells in the game. Anything becomes anything else...Perhaps permanently.


Thanks for the advice.

I'm not sure how well Polymorph will work

Spoiler:
since the caster is a Transmuter. Although we don't have to worry about his own transmutation spells nor any of our own bouncing back at us because of some plot items we have that grant us 3 absorptions of harmful transmutations, as well as a bane effect on our weapons against him.

Moment of Prescience sounds great, but does it work on Spell Penetration checks?

How about Protection from Spells for the +8 Resistance (+5 over anything anybody in the party is using)?

Does the Spell Resistance on Greater Shout apply to creatures, or just objects? That could be nice, stun the guy. I do have +2 DCs on Evocation. And deafness would jack up his spellcasting.


Symar wrote:

Thanks for the advice.

I'm not sure how well Polymorph will work ** spoiler omitted **

Moment of Prescience sounds great, but does it work on Spell Penetration checks?

How about Protection from Spells for the +8 Resistance (+5 over anything anybody in the party is using)?

Does the Spell Resistance on Greater Shout apply to creatures, or just objects? That could be nice, stun the guy. I do have +2 DCs on Evocation. And deafness would jack up his spellcasting.

No Moment of Prescience won't help on an SR check

"on any single attack roll, combat maneuver check, opposed ability or skill check, or saving throw."

Protection from spells is useful no doubt but against a high level caster who going to have high DC's there still going to be a decent chance of failing saves esp against lv8 and 9 spells

Greater shout dose bypass SR but since a fort save can negate both dmg and deafened its not a great option BBEG is going to have 3 good saves reguardless of thier class.

I'd try an negotiate a feat swap for spell penetration and greater spell penetration feats.

barring that

Clentched Fist is a great spell, it does allow SR but if you can beat resistence just once its an awsome spell.
it keeps attacking every round, fort save or stunned with token damage. You can even stack multiple clentched fists to really lock somone down.

I hope you've got quicken metamgic rods so you can dump out the spells.

Another option with polymorph any object is to polymorph your allies as an all round buff which should last long enough to finish the module.

and I don't know if you group can all reliable fly but at 16th level you better all be able to fly at will without taking more than 1 round for the whole party total to do so.


This may just be the horrible freaking Necromancer in me coming out again, but I gotta go with either Blackfire or Greater Bestow Curse, both from the MiC, or just good ol' Polymorph Any Object from the Core Book.

Blackfire: This spell hails from the lovely reaches of The Forgotten Realms, a favorite of Khelben 'the Blackstaff' Arunsun, if I don't miss my Knowledge: Arcana check. For the next 16 rounds, he needs to roll a fort save or lose 1d4 Constitution and be Nauseated. There's no initial save, only fort/partials to negate this effect every round. If he manages to save three times in a row, it goes out, but then.... you have a bunch more, being a sorcerer, right? Just warn your melee buddies that he could catch on fire too. He's not too likely to be Death Warded, I hope. I don't know who your target is. As a super-happy-fun-time bonus, when the spell devours him into a little pile of grey ash, nothing short of Wish or True Res AND a Caster Level Check (DC30) will bring him back.

Greater Bestow Curse: "One ability score is reduced to 1, or two ability scores take -6 penalties (to a minimum score of 1)." Int 1. Permanently. He's as smart as a lizard. Takes a touch attack, but with Fly and Greater Invis you should have no troubles making that. Only trick is that it's a Will Save. And has spell resistance. He might pass, but anything that wins in one button push is going to have both those issues.

Polymorph Any Object: Turn his butt into a Manta Ray. Go home. It's a permanent effect (+5 same kingdom, +2 same size, +2 lower intelligence = 9, permanent) and he's not going to live more than a couple minutes anyway. Will save, once again, and of course, spell resistance.


Phasics wrote:
Greater shout dose bypass SR but since a fort save can negate both dmg and deafened its not a great option BBEG is going to have 3 good saves reguardless of thier class.

Greater Shout is affected by SR. If the BBEG has SR, you'll have to do a check.

Any BBEG caster I'd make would have protection from energy (acid, fire, cold, lightning) and resist energy (acid, fire, cold, lightning) -- or at least equivalent effects.

Sonic damage and horrid wilting would be the damage types that would evade damage shields.

Greater Shout would be like a save or lose -- if you can get it off. A round of stun + rounds of deafness (missing a spell because of deafness = ouch) can really smash a caster BBEG.

The core problem is range -- if range is a factor, greater shout could be useless.

I still like horrid wilting the best. The range is good, the damage is good, the damage is untyped, the save is good against casters, and if it gets reflected you probably won't die/be taken out instantly (...or you can take steps to avoid that at least).


Polymorph Any Object is pretty much the choice. Properly used, it doesn't target your enemy directly, allows no save, and just wrecks his day. For example. I turn all the air in a 10' cube centered on enemy X into red hot solid iron. Enemy is immobilized and burning to death. The air is the target, and gets no save (not even that of an object), and as you are not targeting your enemy directly, his spell resistance doesn't apply...

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