Should depend on church and alignment of deity (disciples of a chaotic deity don´t study the same way lawful ones do)
I´d allow the players to have influence on how their characters came to their abilities. After all, the PCs are exceptional individuals, at high levels they could´ve become legends who even found their own schools of magic (/divine magic)
In a world where the gods actively meddle/interact with their churches, recruitment would really only apply to gathering a congregation.
Being a Cleric would literally be a calling.
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So how does one become a cleric? Are they recruited, are they volunteers. How are they trained in the way of Divine casting? Could an Oracle train and recruit clerics?
I'd say they don't some much volunteer as they apply. They're trained though study and worship.
In theory, yes, an Oracle skilled in organization, management, and leadership could train Clerics. I would only see this scenario happening in the case of a relatively new religion, but it's certainly possible.
Should depend on church and alignment of deity (disciples of a chaotic deity don´t study the same way lawful ones do)
I´d allow the players to have influence on how their characters came to their abilities. After all, the PCs are exceptional individuals, at high levels they could´ve become legends who even found their own schools of magic (/divine magic)
+1
Indeed, I would think the first step is being a part of the congregation. Those who show power intheir prayers may be approached for training.
Clerics in my opinion differ largely on their faith. Certain clerics don't even worship a deity but instead an ethos of some kind. In the majority of worlds in D&D I believe they are both recruited in some churches, volunteers in others. Evil clerics often times are followers of dark deities who interacted with the deity or gained power via that faith and wanted more.
Clerics are such a diverse class that it is hard to say how one becomes one in general.
In short, yes there is no problem with an oracle training and recruiting clerics.
One could even go so far as to say that a character could be a cleric only mechanically, and could gain their powers as another (with DM approval). I had a character concept where I had a death themed cleric who was a necromancer, his holy symbol (a scull with eyes that glowed when he cast) he viewed as his arcane bond, and his armor was made of bone and such (borrowed rules from libris mortis). Largely he resembled the necromancer from diablo II.
I think it depends on the your character. There is no real rule.
Maybe the character was just studying to be a priest, but he had some weapon training, and he finds himself able to perform magic.
Maybe the person is a soldier who happens to be religious, and he find that his prayers are answered on a continual basis so he find his true calling as a cleric.
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Isn't there the wearing of a magical talking hat somewhere involved?
Well as severel has suggested it is open to the character in question.
I envision a formal training for clerics are trained at monestries/temples/academies. Those who have their gods favor advances to clericdom, while others remain acolytes/monks/mundane priests or whatever.
But there can be a lot of other situations, where a cleric haven't be trained like that. Perhaps a local priest who is especially devoted is a low level cleric. Or I wouldn't mind a character who have never been pious his entire life, suddenly having a calling from a god, who choses him to become a cleric, for purposes unknown.
Depends on the god. On the alignment. On the (prospective) cleric. There is no one specific way you become a cleric.
I imagine an interesting tangent to the original question might be 'how does one become an evil cleric. Believing in the power of love, goodness and righteousness is easy; most everyone has good intentions after all. But what might bring a person to support a god of evil, hatred, violence or destruction?
I explored this topic once in a 2e FR campaign; both from a PC and an NPC perspective. The big bad was a lich who, in life, had started off as a righteous cleric of the god of duty, loyalty and righteousness. When his party's lovely wizardess spurned him in favour of their paladin leader's affections he went off on his own to sulk. Due to his having abandoned his group (a dereliction of duty) along with the cleric's growing bitterness and desire for vengeance his god eventually began withholding the cleric's daily spells. Outraged at what he perceived as being spurned by yet someone else he loved, the cleric raged and blasphemed against his former patron. The FR god of hatred, strife and evil was drawn by the good ex-cleric's fall from grace and began answering his prayers for spells; granting him not the spells for which he'd prayed, but an assortment of dark/nasty/evil spells instead. Although he hated the evil god and didn't want the spells his hatred and bitterness played into the god's portfolio. With no alternatives and out of necessity the cleric eventually began using the evil god's granted powers; further cementing him into the dark god's priesthood. I liked the notion that not all evil clerics (perhaps a majority) don't champion a dark god's cause out of love for all things nasty, but out of perceived necessity. I also liked the idea of a BBEG cleric who hated his own patron god as much, if not more, than the PCs.
I was so happy with the NPC's background that I tried to bring about something similar with the PC druid. Because of the part she'd played in snuffing out fledgling life (an adolescent NPC elf had been raped by orc raiders and fallen pregnant and her clan had decided it best to have the mongrel abomination aborted) the gods of nature began withholding her higher level spells as a form of sanction. Instead of the spells she prayed for she would instead receive very nasty necromantic spells; spells no self respecting druid could/should use curtesy of an evil god hungry for a new convert. I left it up to the player to use them or not. Lo and behold she did start casting them, and enjoyed their effectiveness. So the gods of nature withheld more of her druid spells, which in turn were substituted by the evil god with more nasty spells. It all came to a head when she was pursuing a trio of hated gaseous vampires who'd retreated to the coffins strapped to the back of a zombie wyvern flying away. She was alone in bat form with few spells left to cast; the rest of the party left behind on the ground as the wyvern was flying away. She was hunting around for some way to stop the wyvern when the dark god whispered his offer to her: "I can give you power over this wyvern to send it spiralling into the ground if that's your desire. All you have to do is call my name..." The player tried, amusingly to command the wyvern by calling out the names of her nature deities. After, she tried to pull an Ash-from-Armies-of-Darkness by sort of mumbling the evil god's name. The wyvern ignored her while the god laughed at whispered: "What? What was that? I couldn't quite make that out." Finally, pissed off and desperate she loudly called out the evil god's name and commanded the wyvern to crash into a lake; it and the three vampires were destroyed and the ex-druid/fledgling cleric was knocked unconscious as the god laughed.
For some
Keep in mind that a PC classes are mechanical labels and nothing more. There is no inherent difference between an Oracle and a Cleric unless you want them to be. The High Priest of a particular faith could be (mechanically) a Cleric, an Oracle, a Commoner, a Wizard, or a Fighter, as long as they're able to fit within the story.
Keep in mind that a PC classes are mechanical labels and nothing more. There is no inherent difference between an Oracle and a Cleric unless you want them to be. The High Priest of a particular faith could be (mechanically) a Cleric, an Oracle, a Commoner, a Wizard, or a Fighter, as long as they're able to fit within the story.
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For others
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Isn't there the wearing of a magical talking hat somewhere involved?
No, get your classes right, that's wizards.
@ Ambrus, sounds like you're a wonderful DM, I would love to play in one of you're games.
Regardless of alignment or portfolio it takes three attributes:
Faith:
Devotion
Conviction
Generally you must a great deal of conviction and faith in some attribute to form a divine connection. For most it means taking up one of their one of their Deity’s Domains when becoming a cleric; for others it simply means a more absolute conviction in an abstract ideal (such as Law).
...At least that's the foundation of becoming a divine caster.
Ha man, i get my powers from my mind, body and life force.
psychic powers !!
The best way for my Cleric channel magic, for a Heal or True Resurrection spell.
PS = We take office to the name Miracle spell, we prefer to call it Alter Reality spell.
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And do not get me started with Druids = That draw there power throw elemental magic and the planet. We do not have gods, maybe some spirits, or ancestors, but why would be worship some alien from another plane of existence. ;P
My character became a cleric when her god stopped her on the way through the afterlife and made her an offer she couldn't refuse. She wasn't coerced; she was given the opportunity to do something no one else was deemed suitable for. More or less, she was Chosen.
It seems to me you could cast exactly as many and as high level spells as the deity was willing to give you.
According to most religious myths, mortals are only able to withstand a certain amount of divine power- to the point where most of the time, seeing your deity directly or hearing your deity's voice can kill you. How do you know that the number of spells per day isn't a reflection of how much of your deity's power you can handle? Sure, your deity might be willing to give you a hundred spells per day, but your weak mortal form can only withstand six a day.
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Human beings have neither the aural nor the psychological capacity to withstand the awesome power of God's true voice. Were you to hear it, your mind would cave in and your heart would explode within your chest.
We went through five Adams before we figured that one out.
I always thought it was that special solution of aptitude and desire.
If you think of it in a non-mechanical way, as in beyond what numbers you're writing into the little boxes at character creation, it takes a very special person who so believes in the religion in which they've been raised that they want to take a more active part in promoting it, much less channel their god's powers into the game's most powerful magics.
I imagine the conversation would be much like the scene in MP&HG where Arthur and his knights encounter God while on adventure, except after that encounter, Arthur could suddenly bring back his friends from the brink of death (cure spells), calm wild beasts, command people to flee or stop, &c.
A 9th level cleric can bring the dead back to life, recently or a few days ripe. A 13th level cleric can bring the long dead back to life. That is a pretty sweet deal. In exchange, you devote yourself entirely to serving your god's will in the material plane, and for an hour a day, or perhaps more depending on your RP of your special relationship with god probably look just a bit loony as you sit and have conversations with their celestial servants to gain your spells, or learn things beyond your abilities.
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While I don't recall ever seeing it played this way, it could be interesting to have a bit of flavor text where the spell preparation for a cleric is just a little bit traumatic, with shaking and trancing and convulsions and light pouring out of the eyes and mouth and objects flying around the room as the divine presence makes itself known.
When it's done, the lights go out, the cleric, who was suspended in a beam of light shaking moments ago, slumps to the floor in a steaming boneless heap and finally draws a breath and pulls himself up on unsteady arms. In a ragged voice he whispers, "I hear, Lord, and obey."
The wizard, eyebrow raised, closes his spellbook and puts it in his pack. "Uh, yeah. I'm ready, too."
Later he'll whisper to the cleric, "Dude, I wouldn't take your job for any amount of money..."
what is to stop a deity to point a divine finger at someone and say to the effect "Boom you are a 10th level cleric as far as I am concerned 7th level commoner. Do right by my faith and always defend Lastwall."
I imagine the untrained, unprepared brain would just explode. You have to ease people into that sort of power; you can't just start stuffing spells into them.
That's my take on the situation anyway. And then there's the matter of investing a lot of a god's power and prestige in an unproven person.
While I don't recall ever seeing it played this way, it could be interesting to have a bit of flavor text where the spell preparation for a cleric is just a little bit traumatic, with shaking and trancing and convulsions and light pouring out of the eyes and mouth and objects flying around the room as the divine presence makes itself known.
When it's done, the lights go out, the cleric, who was suspended in a beam of light shaking moments ago, slumps to the floor in a steaming boneless heap and finally draws a breath and pulls himself up on unsteady arms. In a ragged voice he whispers, "I hear, Lord, and obey."
The wizard, eyebrow raised, closes his spellbook and puts it in his pack. "Uh, yeah. I'm ready, too."
Later he'll whisper to the cleric, "Dude, I wouldn't take your job for any amount of money..."
Interesting. I had an opposite scene in our campaign not too long ago. The Wizard was trying to copy spells from scrolls into his spellbook and he failed at one. My Cleric sat in the corner watching him and sipping wine. He pitied the Wizard for his efforts. He told the Wizard how much easier it was for him because all the gestures and verbal components are just fluff to express his faith. Any given spell, he could say whatever moves him and gesture however he wants. It's the faith that his god will grant the spell effect that's the real power behind it. None of this math crap.
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Interesting. I had an opposite scene in our campaign not too long ago.
Yeah, that's a completely different, but just as valid way to do it. The cleric closes his eyes and the divine magic is just bequeathed unto him, perhaps even being an affirming or rapturous experience for him, while the wizard is wrestling with arcane formula and writing stuff on his arm, his headache growing behind his eyes as he forces his mortal brain to store energies and concepts that were never meant to be used in this manner.
Either way could be fun, for a flavor thing, and maybe some gods have 'gentler touch' than others. Receiving your spells from Shelyn could be a very, very different experience than receiving them from her brother, Zon-Kuthon.
Keeping it rules-adjacent also allows an individual player to choose to flavor his PC differently. One wizard PC might consider it as easy as filling out some paperwork, while another struggles to contain the energies, and finishes every bout of spell preparation feeling like he's run a marathon *and* about to burst magic out of every pore.