Possible. But you know when this adventure hits the table, some one (like me for instance) would suggest it, and hopefully the GM would have some means of keeping the PCs from trying it.
Have fun finding a ship captain willing to do it. Seriously, a trip like that is something that even a viking type captain would be hesitant to undertake, and a low level party isn't going to have enough resources to convince a captain or a crew to risk it. Also, it could be that the kingdom in question doesn't border the sea, making a sea trip rather pointless.
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There's two big reasons I can cite right now as to why the adventure's an overland journey to Tian-Xia.
1) The overland journey follows an established trade route.
2) The sea route is much longer. To the east, you'd sail south to the Arch of Aroden, then through the Inner Sea, then out around Casmaron and Vudra, but then you'd be faced with another ocean to cross and when you did that, you'd hit the west (aka the wrong) coast of Tian Xia, which has a huge mountain range running down it's coast, which limits the routes through. You'd have to land at one of those sites, then do an overland journey anyway, and most of that would be through a dozen or more Tian Xia nations before you got to Minkai... and that's not the flavor of the adventure we want to do. And on top of that, it'd end up taking a LOT longer than the over the Crown of the World route anyway.
Sailing around the southern side of Tian-Xia would be super long too, but worse, that'd send you through some of the most dangerous waters of Golarion; the oceans surrounding Sarusan. That would probably sink your ship.
Sailing west isn't much better; the frozen northern sea = no northern passage... or if there IS, that's a several-month process finding it. Which could be a cool AP, but not the one we want to present.
So you'd have to sail past Azlant, then south around Arcadia, which is a long trip, and once you round the southern edge of Arcadia, you'd have to sail back up along the coast and then strike out over an uncharted ocean that might be as big as the Pacific Ocean.
3) There's a few other reasons as well, but they're plot spoilers, so you'll have to wait.
The short version, though, is that the over the top of the world route IS the shortest route between Minkai and Varisia.
3) There's a few other reasons as well, but they're plot spoilers, so you'll have to wait.
In the writeup blurb for section 3 (which is the one I'm most excited about, oddly - I guess I didn't get enough coldweather hiking in RotRL6) it says that you'll be making the trip during the offseason, and that's dangerous.
To me, that suggests that time is heavily constrained. If you can't "wait until summer" then something big must be up.
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3) There's a few other reasons as well, but they're plot spoilers, so you'll have to wait.In the writeup blurb for section 3 (which is the one I'm most excited about, oddly - I guess I didn't get enough coldweather hiking in RotRL6) it says that you'll be making the trip during the offseason, and that's dangerous.
To me, that suggests that time is heavily constrained. If you can't "wait until summer" then something big must be up.
To a certain extent, yes, but not in the way you might think.
couldn't they just hire someone that could cast greater teleport? They might have to goto korvosa, but that trip is going to be alot easier and costs less than 1000 gp.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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couldn't they just hire someone that could cast greater teleport? They might have to goto korvosa, but that trip is going to be alot easier and costs less than 1000 gp.
Just over 1800 gp you mean. Remember, you have to pay for the spellcaster's return trip. :D
Not to mention the locals might be hostile. A canny mage would have you pay a retainer to cover the cost of any spells he might cast in self defense while in your service.
This is assuming you have a reliable description of the place you want to teleport to in the first place.
couldn't they just hire someone that could cast greater teleport? They might have to goto korvosa, but that trip is going to be alot easier and costs less than 1000 gp.Nope.
Again... you'll have to wait to see the adventure to find out why.
It's heartening to see that you thought of a reason why it is impossible. Buying a Greater Teleport would be about the first thing my players would think of doing.
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It's heartening to see that you thought of a reason why it is impossible. Buying a Greater Teleport would be about the first thing my players would think of doing.couldn't they just hire someone that could cast greater teleport? They might have to goto korvosa, but that trip is going to be alot easier and costs less than 1000 gp.Nope.
Again... you'll have to wait to see the adventure to find out why.
Well... "buying a greater teleport" assumes that
a) the PCs can afford it
and
b) that one's for sale.
Those are two fine reasons why this isn't an issue to begin with for lower levels, but it won't be the ONLY reason why teleporting isn't allowed.
(Of course, a good one is that if the PCs did this, they'd be essentially teleporting their 3rd or whatever level characters into an adventure written for 15th or so level characters. Not a good plan.)
(Of course, a good one is that if the PCs did this, they'd be essentially teleporting their 3rd or whatever level characters into an adventure written for 15th or so level characters. Not a good plan.)
Never underestimate the innate desire of players to upstage their DM or unwittingly suicide their characters. :D
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(Of course, a good one is that if the PCs did this, they'd be essentially teleporting their 3rd or whatever level characters into an adventure written for 15th or so level characters. Not a good plan.)Never underestimate the innate desire of players to upstage their DM or unwittingly suicide their characters. :D
I don't.
Which is why Jade Regent will have an unfair and arbitrary limitation on teleporting the group from one side of the world to the other.
(Of course, a good one is that if the PCs did this, they'd be essentially teleporting their 3rd or whatever level characters into an adventure written for 15th or so level characters. Not a good plan.)Never underestimate the innate desire of players to upstage their DM or unwittingly suicide their characters. :DI don't.
Which is why Jade Regent will have an unfair and arbitrary limitation on teleporting the group from one side of the world to the other.
Sounds excellent and I am very much looking forward to the AP. Seriously, thank you for doing this one, I love far east settings. :)
I don't.Which is why Jade Regent will have an unfair and arbitrary limitation on teleporting the group from one side of the world to the other.
*cringe* I can hear one of my players complaining already. :(
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The "Epic Journey" adventure path is one we haven't tried yet... but one that has been proven to be popular (see Lord of the Rings), so I'm really eager to try it out.
It DOES mean that teleportation rears its ugly head, and if you have players who basically want to skip a third of this AP to jump ahead via teleportation, and they're not playing along with the story... you should let them do it, I guess, at which point they'll be woefully unprepared for the adventure unless you take huge steps to rebuild the encounters to be appropriate, which will be tough but not impossible.
The mechanic to prevent the PCs from doing this will be pretty compelling and, honestly, NOT disruptive. Racing through this adventure path is a BAD thing, and the AP will say that several times in several ways.
But you know your players better than I. If you know they'll be all into teleporting as a way to skip or "win" early, tell them that's not the point of this AP. If they're cool with that, that's good. If they're not, you should, honestly, play another AP.
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I'm glad to see you've thought out the teleport thing. Golarion needs more ways to limit the teleport spell. I vote for inexplicable Far Realm creatures that live in the ether, intercept teleporters, and eat them!
I kinda disagree. Teleport is more useful for storylines than it hurts them.
The tricky part comes with teleport being avialable before 9th level, or greater teleport being available before 13th level. Usually via scrolls. That's easy enough to limit, since you as the GM can simply say none are available for purchase. If the PCs say "that's not realistic" you can counter by saying that those scrolls are among the most popular and thus if ANYthing's going to be sold out... it's them.
The mechanic to prevent the PCs from doing this will be pretty compelling and, honestly, NOT disruptive.
But you know your players better than I. If you know they'll be all into teleporting as a way to skip or "win" early, tell them that's not the point of this AP. If they're cool with that, that's good.
Good points. Noted for future reference.
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Good points. Noted for future reference.The mechanic to prevent the PCs from doing this will be pretty compelling and, honestly, NOT disruptive.
But you know your players better than I. If you know they'll be all into teleporting as a way to skip or "win" early, tell them that's not the point of this AP. If they're cool with that, that's good.
We're very likely to mention something in the adventure path's player's guide that it's going to involve a long overland journey where teleportation won't be an issue. That comes pretty close to being a spoiler, but if it helps to set the right expectations in the players it might be a necessary evil. What do folks think about that?
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This sounds like a lot of fun, and good to have more options for the players in the players guides... that mentioned... Iconics! they aren't in the AP anymore itself, so why not put them in the players guide! My group always likes to have one or more of the iconics around as an NPC/PC/Mascot, and the level one blurbs for the iconics aren't that much space.. esp when you aren't printing the players guides!
That said, there'll be some stuff in the Player's Guide that'll talk about an option where the PCs actually PLAY characters like Ameiko and the other key NPCs who'll be appearing in the AP, like Shalelu and a few others with ties to Sandpoint. In this case, the assumption will either be that the PCs are playing 1st level versions of these characters that may or may not follow their current in-print incarnations. ALL of the primary NPCs in Jade Regent will have a fair amount of art depicting them, in any case, so that might further limit what steps GMs might want to take in rebuilding the characters\0x1F\0x2014the new art for Ameiko, for example, shows her wearing leather armor and carrying a rapier and a samishen, so if she's not a bard in your game, that might be weird.
An interesting idea, but for Jade Regent in particular, not a good one. This AP will have more long-term NPC/PC interaction than any other AP we've done, I suspect, and that means that cluttering the field with iconics would be no good.
We're very likely to mention something in the adventure path's player's guide that it's going to involve a long overland journey where teleportation won't be an issue. That comes pretty close to being a spoiler, but if it helps to set the right expectations in the players it might be a necessary evil. What do folks think about that?
Managing expectations early would be a big help. +1 Support.
We're very likely to mention something in the adventure path's player's guide that it's going to involve a long overland journey where teleportation won't be an issue. That comes pretty close to being a spoiler, but if it helps to set the right expectations in the players it might be a necessary evil. What do folks think about that?
I think that those who would look to circumvent the journey by utilizing teleport will feel that it's a gimmick.
I think teleport and greater teleport do many stories more harm than good and the fact that an AP has to go to specific lengths to nerf it demonstrate that fact.
I can appreciate the teleport spells place in the game in the historical context of the game, but they are gained far, far too early, IMO. Scrolls only magnify the issue.
I think your approach is the only viable one available given that teleport and greater teleport have been preserved at their previous incarnation's levels. It just doesn't make the approach any more palatable for campaigns & players that opt to utilize RAW over campaign flavor...
Heh, I remember that after LOTR came out, I just houseruled out teleporting and flying spells completely for my next campaign. Unfortunately, I was dense enough to give all the characters flying mounts.
But, yeah, for an epic journey AP some spells really can ruin the mood, unless there are specific reasons why they cannot be used.
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Sailing west isn't much better; the frozen northern sea = no northern passage... or if there IS, that's a several-month process finding it. Which could be a cool AP, but not the one we want to present.
This actually sounds amazing. Now I really want to design a scenario that is essentially Dan Simmons' The Terror meets Lovecraft's At the Mountains of Madness, set in the Crown of the World.
The real question is, what is the Golarion equivalent of the British Expeditionary Force?
The real question is, what is the Golarion equivalent of the British Expeditionary Force?
The PCs.
Or the Taldor Expeditionary Force, maybe?
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However, I have some reservations. One of my biggest problems with the Council of Thieves AP was the lack of information on the titular thieves' guild. As a GM, I would have really liked an article about the Council - its leaders, captains, ranks, numbers, a few of its strongholds/safe houses, etc. Anything to let a GM flesh it out and expand it more to his liking.
I see that the Whispering Way Cult is gettins an article in Carrion Crown, so I'm hoping the Five Storms gets similar love.
There'll be a big article about the oni in the very first Jade Regent adventure. It'll more or less function as the Five Storms article too, since the desires of the Five Storms and the desires of the oni as a whole are more or less identical.
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The AP #1 shows an elven woman (or possibly half elven) on the cover... my first thought was Ameiko, but she's human right? So, my brain is shuffling through who it might be... Any thoughts?
Placeholder art.
The background image is from "Conquest of Bloodsworn Vale." The elf is from "Ultimate Magic" (she's an illustration of a geisha from the bard archytype section in that book).
The actual cover images will be coming at a later date. They're in and complete, but Sarah hasn't had a chance yet to build the actual cover treatment for the AP so we're not yet ready to show the art off.
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The AP #1 shows an elven woman (or possibly half elven) on the cover... my first thought was Ameiko, but she's human right? So, my brain is shuffling through who it might be... Any thoughts?Placeholder art.
The background image is from "Conquest of Bloodsworn Vale." The elf is from "Ultimate Magic" (she's an illustration of a geisha from the bard archytype section in that book).
The actual cover images will be coming at a later date. They're in and complete, but Sarah hasn't had a chance yet to build the actual cover treatment for the AP so we're not yet ready to show the art off.
Oh, ok, it just looked so appropriate... Cool, nice to see the Geisha is a bard archetype! Thanks, Mr. Dinosaur!
Not to threaddump or anything (he said as he prepared to threaddump)...
I had concerns that the whole Asian flavor would be a killer for me and my group in this AP, and after reading the blurbs...yeah, it's a killer for me and my group in this AP. The journey there sounds interesting enough, but nothing in the last three or four books grabs me even remotely sufficiently to make me want to climb over the barrier thrown up by the Asian setting and spend money on them. It sounds fairly pedestrian and "been there, done that." So, I guess I'll unsubscribe after Carrion Crown and wait to see what comes next.
So, James...when are we gonna find out what comes next? :-D
Do we know what sort of level this path will go up to?We won't know for SURE until the sixth adventure is developed, because sometimes adventures come in with fewer encounters than we'd anticipated. My best guess is that by the end of the sixth adventure of Jade Regent, PCs will be somewhere between 15th and 17th level, though.
Somewhere between 15 and 17? 16 basically, that's what you're saying? ;-)
Somewhere between 15 and 17? 16 basically, that's what you're saying? ;-)
When James talks, he tends to include his bounds. So 15 or 16 or 17.
We're very likely to mention something in the adventure path's player's guide that it's going to involve a long overland journey where teleportation won't be an issue. That comes pretty close to being a spoiler, but if it helps to set the right expectations in the players it might be a necessary evil. What do folks think about that?
It's a question every single table will ask at some point of the adventure. Whether it's level 3 or level 10, they'll ask.
Being up front seems the best way to deal with the issue. Players who take issue with it, are going to take issue even if you don't mention it. So better they take issue before the game begins.
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Not to threaddump or anything (he said as he prepared to threaddump)...
I had concerns that the whole Asian flavor would be a killer for me and my group in this AP, and after reading the blurbs...yeah, it's a killer for me and my group in this AP. The journey there sounds interesting enough, but nothing in the last three or four books grabs me even remotely sufficiently to make me want to climb over the barrier thrown up by the Asian setting and spend money on them. It sounds fairly pedestrian and "been there, done that." So, I guess I'll unsubscribe after Carrion Crown and wait to see what comes next.
So, James...when are we gonna find out what comes next? :-D
Paizocon.
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Somewhere between 15 and 17? 16 basically, that's what you're saying? ;-)Do we know what sort of level this path will go up to?We won't know for SURE until the sixth adventure is developed, because sometimes adventures come in with fewer encounters than we'd anticipated. My best guess is that by the end of the sixth adventure of Jade Regent, PCs will be somewhere between 15th and 17th level, though.
Nope. I'm saying that depending on how many encounters the authors can cram into the adventures, you might end up ending the AP at 15th level. Or maybe 16th. Or maybe 17th. OR maybe even 14th or 18th. There's no way to know for sure until we get there, but we can say with relative certainty that it'll be around 15th, 16th, or 17th, since that's how most of our APs end up.
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We're very likely to mention something in the adventure path's player's guide that it's going to involve a long overland journey where teleportation won't be an issue. That comes pretty close to being a spoiler, but if it helps to set the right expectations in the players it might be a necessary evil. What do folks think about that?It's a question every single table will ask at some point of the adventure. Whether it's level 3 or level 10, they'll ask.
Being up front seems the best way to deal with the issue. Players who take issue with it, are going to take issue even if you don't mention it. So better they take issue before the game begins.
Well... in the campaign, they'll probably know why they can't teleport by the end of the first adventure.
But the Player's Guide WILL spell out that a long journey is part of the AP, so that PCs aren't stay at home types. And we'll probably mention something about not being able to skip 3 adventures with a teleport as well.
Question, how long after the start of Rise of the Runelords is this campaign intended to take place? I am already looking at the possibility of characters, but if my current players want to make characters related to their ROTRL characters, I can help guide them the right way.
It is up to the DM, but each AP is assumed to take place about a year apart and they happened in the order printed. I think Jade Regent is AP number 9.
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Question, how long after the start of Rise of the Runelords is this campaign intended to take place? I am already looking at the possibility of characters, but if my current players want to make characters related to their ROTRL characters, I can help guide them the right way.
About 4 years have passed, in theory, between "Rise of the Runelords" and "Jade Regent," although the actual amount of time that passes is left somehwhat vague, since that amount of time can be different in every game. The Jade Regent Players Guide will have some advice for players on this topic, while the first adventure in Pathfinder #49 will have more for the GM.
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Question, how long after the start of Rise of the Runelords is this campaign intended to take place? I am already looking at the possibility of characters, but if my current players want to make characters related to their ROTRL characters, I can help guide them the right way.About 4 years have passed, in theory, between "Rise of the Runelords" and "Jade Regent," although the actual amount of time that passes is left somehwhat vague, since that amount of time can be different in every game. The Jade Regent Players Guide will have some advice for players on this topic, while the first adventure in Pathfinder #49 will have more for the GM.
Thanks! That helps a lot, actually... We are starting on our 3rd year in Runelords, and just about to embark on Fortress. So we are pretty close, I think.
If my group were to play it, we'd probably have to treat it as a parallel universe where the events of RotRL might have happened, but with different people than our PCs playing the key roles. If we played it as a sequel to our present RotRL game Ameiko would be married to my character (if he survives, anyway) -- they were friends before the AP began (part of his backstory), and became lovers after the events of Burnt Offerings. Since Kavren, at that point, should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 15th-16th level, having him in the picture would probably mess up the game balance for an AP intro adventure just a bit.
Incidentally, will Hayato be part of the iconic party for this AP? I know Paizo is no longer including stat cards for iconics with the AP modules, but they still show up in the artwork (as discussed recently in several threads here regarding Carrion Crown's all-female iconic team). Hayato's backstory seems to be tailor-made for Jade Regent: "He harbors a secret hope: that perhaps one day he might raise an army of champions and take it back over the Crown of the World, rooting out the corrupt politicians of his homeland and restoring the honor of himself, his adopted family, and the samurai code he was born to uphold."
The one thing even better than leading an army, of course, would be swearing himself to the rightful heir to the throne and bringing her home to purge the corruption of Minkai's rulers from the top down. If the government he defied was itself illegitimate, then perhaps Hayato's strike against one of its evil officials was not dishonorable after all, and as empress, Ameiko could restore his honor with a word.
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If my group were to play it, we'd probably have to treat it as a parallel universe where the events of RotRL might have happened, but with different people than our PCs playing the key roles. If we played it as a sequel to our present RotRL game Ameiko would be married to my character (if he survives, anyway) -- they were friends before the AP began (part of his backstory), and became lovers after the events of Burnt Offerings. Since Kavren, at that point, should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 15th-16th level, having him in the picture would probably mess up the game balance for an AP intro adventure just a bit.
That works pretty well, honestly. You could even set it many years in the future, if you wanted to get crazy experimental, and have Ameiko have passed away and have her child fill her role... that might be too weird though. In any case, there'll be guidelines as to what to do if, in your campaign, Ameiko ended up dead or gone or missing or married or whatever.
Incidentally, will Hayato be part of the iconic party for this AP? I know Paizo is no longer including stat cards for iconics with the AP modules, but they still show up in the artwork (as discussed recently in several threads here regarding Carrion Crown's all-female iconic team).
The Iconics we'll be using to illustrate Jade Regent will be the monk, the witch, the samurai, and the druid.