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Last weekend I was at a convention in Chattanooga, TN. I would have had a great time if not for 2 DM's.
I mostly DM. I have DMed at cons before. So let me start by saying thanks to all the DM's and organizers who were there.
We played in one game Saturday evening that basically ruined the whole con for me and my wife. During the game, one of the characters died. He didn't fall into negative hit points, he died. How, because the DM decided that since we were able to revive a character who had been in the negative HP zone, the creature would make sure this other character was dead. That's bad. What was worse, she was gleeful about it. Not happy, gleeful. She was so excited she told other DMs at the table around us and they were happy too.
That's just wrong.
Player death in a home game is one thing. But in an organized play setting its much much worse.
We all go into these games knowing what could happen to our characters. But to have DMs go out of their way to kill us is unacceptable.
This DM also took so long and had so many side conversations that we didn't get to finish our scenario. We played on the higher tier but ended up not getting all of our prestige awards and ended up with less gold than we would have gotten if we had completed the lower tier.
Our final game Sunday afternoon took almost 5 hours to complete because the DM was not prepared. Fortunatly we were able to finish.
Dungeonmasters, you need to be prepared. Read the scenarios ahead of time. Be familiar with the monsters and traps, etc your players will encounter. Be prepared to call a fight or skip a fight if the time is running short. If you have to fudge, do so in favor of the players who are PAYING to play.
I payed $40 to get into this convention. I took 2 days off of work, lost badly needed overtime and had to pay for a hotel room to come. Two bad DMs pretty much ruined the convention for me. If it hadn't been for the Year of the Shadow Lodge being so much fun I would have had a miserable time.
I have the names of the DMs who ran these scenarions. I will NOT be plaing in any future games they run.
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First, let me say that i hope you do not use this experience to quit society play, although it sounds like you're willing to continue.
One of the hardest things to know is all the circumstances involved, and most of us tend to lean in favor of the GM. However, if your experience is accurate (no reason to think otherwise), sounds like you may have gotten a poor, or at least inexperienced GM. There is a kind of strange under-current with GM's that character death is a kind of badge, and some have a reputation as being "killer." I'll admit that some of us, over-play character death and should, probably, be more neutral on the subject. Personally, I have never seen a GM intentionally kill a character, but it could happen. I've killed a few in my day as well as a few TPK's.
Again, not sure of the circumstances at the event, but often times, a GM is handed the mod they will be running five minutes beforehand. Little to no prep is available. Some mods are extremely challenging to run in this fashion and reduce everyone's enjoyment.
All i can say is attend some more regional conventions. Depending on how far you are willing to drive, there are some over the next few months in Indianapolis (Indiana), Fort Wayne (Indiana), Columbus (Ohio), etc. I will advise you that if you experience issues like this in the future, don't be afraid to notify the event coordinator. Hopefully, s/he will look into the issue and help resolve it.
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Last weekend I was at a convention in Chattanooga, TN. I would have had a great time if not for 2 DM's.
I mostly DM. I have DMed at cons before. So let me start by saying thanks to all the DM's and organizers who were there.
We played in one game Saturday evening that basically ruined the whole con for me and my wife. During the game, one of the characters died. He didn't fall into negative hit points, he died. How, because the DM decided that since we were able to revive a character who had been in the negative HP zone, the creature would make sure this other character was dead. That's bad. What was worse, she was gleeful about it. Not happy, gleeful. She was so excited she told other DMs at the table around us and they were happy too.
That's just wrong.
Player death in a home game is one thing. But in an organized play setting its much much worse.
We all go into these games knowing what could happen to our characters. But to have DMs go out of their way to kill us is unacceptable.
This DM also took so long and had so many side conversations that we didn't get to finish our scenario. We played on the higher tier but ended up not getting all of our prestige awards and ended up with less gold than we would have gotten if we had completed the lower tier.
Our final game Sunday afternoon took almost 5 hours to complete because the DM was not prepared. Fortunatly we were able to finish.
Dungeonmasters, you need to be prepared. Read the scenarios ahead of time. Be familiar with the monsters and traps, etc your players will encounter. Be prepared to call a fight or skip a fight if the time is running short. If you have to fudge, do so in favor of the players who are PAYING to play.
I payed $40 to get into this convention. I took 2 days off of work, lost badly needed overtime and had to pay for a hotel room to come. Two bad DMs pretty much ruined the convention for me. If it hadn't been for the Year of the Shadow Lodge being so much fun I would have had a miserable time.
I have the names...
As a new society GM i could not agree with you more. Player killing aside (that horse been beat to death in other threads) Gm's HAVE to be prepared. even in store games. I look at it from a customer service stand point. GM's and Event coordinators are providing a service to their customers (the players). as Both a GM and coordinator, it is my duty to make the experience as enjoyable as possible for the players at my table and event.
two things i Believe go a long way to achieving this are;
1) preparation. as above but even deeper into having maps drawn already or flip maps, knowing the NPC's and their possible responses/reactions (throaty mermaid anyone?) and most of all be prepared and willing to fudge combat or encounters to make time limits. this does not mean give them unearned stuff. but a great example is:
2) Good table manners. and no i do not mean the eating kind. being friendly to players is key. this does not mean you can not have fun by laughing at the rogue who sets off the poisoned dart trap while trying to disarm it, or rolelaying the BBEG laughing manically over the fallen cleric he charged and knocked out first. but It does mean you do not brag about it OOC. and it does mean after the encounter you make every available method to revive the character apparent to the party. as A gm we are more than story tellers and the players of the BBEG's. we are there to facilitate the players adventures in the society.
enough of a noobs ramblings... lol when i get 4 star i can toot this horn more :) but honestly i hope you keep playing and do not hold the few bad apples against the rest of us, especially us noobs. :) I will definitely learn from this post all i can to make my events better.
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Why you would bring complaints to a public forum a week after the con instead of when I am available at the con is beyond me. If you had brought it to my attention at the time of the incident, I could have addressed it then.
th that said, both DMs were well prepared ahead of time. I am aware of one of the instances you mentioned and I know you are only giving a partial account. If you wish to discuss further, my email is mbrock@Georgiapfs.org.
As to the Saturday evening, you and your wife both played the special and no one died so I'm not sure what you are referring to.
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I hope these forums move away from posting personal grievances. I've made my mistake in the past and now use these forums to clarify issues and get information to better run games. It seems though it is becoming a trend to vilify folks and end conversations sans resolution, especially when that person isn't around to give personal testimony to the same situation. Remember: praise publicly, scold privately.
I was at the Con and GM'ed a couple of games. I don't believe I GM'ed a game for you, but I think I was in that last game with you (not the one where someone died). I think it's a very unfair criticism of the last slot, considering it was the very last slot of the Con and almost all GMs were running on fumes. Most GMs were lucky to even get 4 hours of sleep a night that weekend. Also our breaks between were more scarce because of the time need to put away one game and setup for the next. Not to mention, the table we were at had 7 players as well which makes games drag, especially at a 7-11 game.
Mike worked very hard to organize the Con and he spent hundreds of dollars from his own pocket to ensure we had a foamboard map for almost every scenario and had all the scenarios printed and ready to hand out for the 85+ games. Not to mention the other money the GMs spent to make ConNooga one of the largest (if not the largest) and best PFS events in the Southeast.
In the end, I hope you can bring these problems to the attention of your GM, as well as your PFS event coordinator if you feel the situation requires more attention. We want to see resolution and happiness, but that can't take place if you don't involve those closer to the issue who have the ability to set things right.
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let me add another thought, I have the distinction of being the only one to die at the atlanta comic con, yes it sucked especially since that was my first PFS charecter, was i mad at the gm...no its my fault for trying to heal the strikers. in the long run its chalked up to doo doo happens. I have a good idea which judge your referring to and im more than happy with her judging at the con and have already signed up for several sessions at the seige with her at the helm. I will agree the sessions ran a lil long and i brought that up there at the con and on the lodge forum without grieving at a certain person or persons. next time id bring it up to the coordinator at the site or if you feel mike isnt addressing your situation to your satisfaction talk to shane and im sure he will address it with mike...just my 2 cents
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There are a lot of great things to experience at a con. There are tons of people to meet and get to know, lots of diversity in play, and all of that can be a wonderful experience. The problem is that negative experiences end up souring the whole weekend. So when you add in the cost to attend and the hassle of travel, eventually risking negative experiences becomes much less attractive. Having fun shouldn't be a stressful and distasteful experience.
I think people overlook a DM's perspective on this. The DMs volunteer a large chunk, or all, of their con to provide enjoyment for the players. They have to pay the cost to attend. They have to take three days off work. Perhaps the cost isn't a badge, but they are still paying for hotel and food which is a significant amount. DMs also deal with the hassle of travel.
However, a DM should never run the risk of having their weekend ruined or having a negative experience when a player is downright rude or mean, or when the DM questions impossible stats or the uncanny dice rolling skills of a player. In fairness to the other players at the table, I would argue it is a DM's responsibility to question the player with the impossible stats or uncanny dice rolls and not have to fear being lashed at by that player. As you put it so eloquently, having fun shouldn't be a stressful and distasteful experience -- this is especially true when you are volunteering your time so six, or 15, or 50 people can have a good time over the course of DMing 10 games.
All I ask as a coordinator, is that if a player has a problem, instead of bringing it out in a public forum a week later, it is brought to my attention at the con.
In light of all of that, I get what the OP is saying. I don't see what coordinators can do about those kinds of situations at the scene.In light of all of that, I get what the OP is saying. I don't see what coordinators can do about those kinds of situations at the scene.
My DMs know, if they are in the right, I will always support them. Conversely, they know if they are wrong, I will bring them to the side and talk to them about it. I would never want to see a DM gleeful over the death of a character. Had it been brought to my attention at the time of the incident by the player, I could have addressed it. That it has been brought up a week after the fact and I am 100 miles away, well, you are right, there isn't a whole lot I can do now except to talk with the DM to find out if it did happen, and if so, to make sure it doesn't happen in the future.
As always, if anyone ever has concerns, criticisms, or questions about conventions where I am organizing PFS, my email is mbrock@georgiapfs.org. I promise you, it isn't in my nature to ignore problems or shy away from them. Just don't blindside me with a complaint and accusations on a public forum.
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There are a lot of great things to experience at a con. There are tons of people to meet and get to know, lots of diversity in play, and all of that can be a wonderful experience. The problem is that negative experiences end up souring the whole weekend. So when you add in the cost to attend and the hassle of travel, eventually risking negative experiences becomes much less attractive. Having fun shouldn't be a stressful and distasteful experience.
I think people overlook a DM's perspective on this. The DMs volunteer a large chunk, or all, of their con to provide enjoyment for the players. They have to pay the cost to attend. They have to take three days off work. Perhaps the cost isn't a badge, but they are still paying for hotel and food which is a significant amount. DMs also deal with the hassle of travel.
However, a DM should never run the risk of having their weekend ruined or having a negative experience when a player is downright rude or mean, or when the DM questions impossible stats or the uncanny dice rolling skills of a player. In fairness to the other players at the table, I would argue it is a DM's responsibility to question the player with the impossible stats or uncanny dice rolls and not have to fear being lashed at by that player. As you put it so eloquently, having fun shouldn't be a stressful and distasteful experience -- this is especially true when you are volunteering your time so six, or 15, or 50 people can have a good time over the course of DMing 10 games.
All I ask as a coordinator, is that if a player has a problem, instead of bringing it out in a public forum a week later, it is brought to my attention at the con.
In light of all of that, I get what the OP is saying. I don't see what coordinators can do about those kinds of situations at the scene.In light of all of that, I get what the OP is saying. I don't see what coordinators can do about those kinds of situations at the scene.My DMs know, if they are in...
Michael, I think you are seeing an attack on you that isn't there. Should the OP have talked to you when the things happened? Of course. But that is not always an option (as a con organizer I'm usually running around like a decapitated chicken during the can), especially when you come from out of town and do not know who to go to.
The OP was bringing out what has been a major concern on these boards since PFS began in the light of having been at the con. His general concerns are valid and I we often post about how to avoid these sorts of things on these boards. The main problem is that the OP is preaching to the choir here. Those of us on these board have a general interest to support the society and see it go to a good place. The kinds of judges he described are general in it for themselves and wouldn't come to the boards where they would be told their brand of 'fun' is wrong.
We all continue to attempt to bring the best PFS experience to every event we can. The OPs concerns are not falling on deaf ears.
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Let me put it more bluntly, cblome59. Some of what was described isn't accurate and the whole story wasn't given. The judges he is speaking about are far from the way he described them. The reason these judges don't come to the board to speak for themselves is I asked them to vent through me to try to keep from turning this into a childish flame war on a public message board. They are well aware of this thread, have emailed me to let me know their side of the story, I have emailed with another player at the table, and I think I have a pretty clear picture as to what is going on.
One of the judges is a two star judge, quickly approaching three stars, and I have never had a complaint against him until now. As a matter of fact, I get more compliments about his judging style than any other judge in Pathfinder Society of Georgia. What I would ask is you don't take the OP's post as the complete truth. Simply put, it isn't the entire truth.
As for it not being an option, I made sure I was available before and after every timeslot. I started every game I DMed 15 minutes late to make sure that any problems or concerns could be taken care of in a timely manner. Where my con organizer desk was (on a stage surrounded by foam board maps with a computer on the desk), you simply had to walk up and talk to me.
Again, I do not wish to turn this into any kind of flame war. However, what has been portrayed here and what actually happened are far apart.
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Let me put it more bluntly, cblome59. Some of what was described isn't accurate and the whole story wasn't given. The judges he is speaking about are far from the way he described them. The reason these judges don't come to the board to speak for themselves is I asked them to vent through me to try to keep from turning this into a childish flame war on a public message board. They are well aware of this thread, have emailed me to let me know their side of the story, and I think I have a pretty clear picture as to what is going on.
One of the judges is a two star judge, quickly approaching three stars, and I have never had a complaint against him until now. As a matter of fact, I get more compliments about his judging style than any other judge in Pathfinder Society of Georgia. What I would ask is you don't take the OP's post as the complete truth. Simply put, it isn't the entire truth.
As for it not being an option, I made sure I was available before and after every timeslot. I started every game I DMed 15 minutes late to make sure that any problems or concerns could be taken care of in a timely manner. Where my con organizer desk was (on a stage surrounded by foam board maps with a computer on the desk), you simply had to walk up and talk to me.
Again, I do not wish to turn this into any kind of flame war. However, what has been portrayed here and what actually happened are far apart.
I'm not saying things happen the way the OP says they did. The rest of us are only seeing his side of the story. And I, also am not trying to start a flame war or show you in a bad light.
What am I doing is looking at the generalities the OP brought up which is what I believe he intended. And to see him getting slammed from some corners for doing so doesn't sit right for me.
Should judges act the way he described? No
Does this mean they actually did? No
Should he have handled the situation in the examples better? Yes
Should we, as a group, be concerned with any judges anywhere acting this way? Yes
Again, I don't think this was a poke at you, just at behaviors.
For those of us not familiar with PFS (or CON gaming in general), what are the consequences of a PK besides putting away your character sheet? Fresh air and sunshine?
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For those of us not familiar with PFS (or CON gaming in general), what are the consequences of a PK besides putting away your character sheet? Fresh air and sunshine?
If you have the cash, you can get a raise dead. IF you don't, the players at the table can chip in. Otherwise, that character is gone.
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For those of us not familiar with PFS (or CON gaming in general), what are the consequences of a PK besides putting away your character sheet? Fresh air and sunshine?
If this is a serious question, I will give you one scenario that I have actually seen happen more than once in LG.
A player lost their character (character died) during the second slot of the con. They did not have another high level character to play the scenarios that were scheduled for the rest of the con and they had already played the low level scenarios that were offered. The player spent $30 for the con plus hotel and vacation time, only to not be able to play anything for two days of the con.
Most times, con organizers will try to help you out and reorganize a table so you can play. But what if you had already played all the low level scenarios available? If you lost your high level character at any point during the con, you could be out for the rest of the con. As an aside, if you are willing to GM, you may still be able to participate. But I would never want to be in this position. Especially if I had shelled out a couple hundred dollars and vacation time to be there.
If you have the cash, you can get a raise dead. IF you don't, the players at the table can chip in.
Hopefully this is an option for that character, otherwise it could be a long weekend.
Before everyone jumps on this saying you could still replay for no credit, I ask this simple question. If you had just driven 200+ miles and spent a couple hundred dollars to play your main character for the weekend and now are re-playing scenarios for no credit, how happy are you going to be? While some of us would play on, a lot of people would be upset.
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For those of us not familiar with PFS (or CON gaming in general), what are the consequences of a PK besides putting away your character sheet? Fresh air and sunshine?If you have the cash, you can get a raise dead. IF you don't, the players at the table can chip in. Otherwise, that character is gone.
Don't also forget if you have enough Prestige (16 pts.) you can get a Raise Dead as well. I think this is an option a lot of characters sometimes forget.
Nathan
NYC
I played and GMed in RPGA events for years before I became a Pathfinder devotee. In that time, I have had underprepared GMs who couldn't read screw up basic rules that made it difficult to advance in comeptitive events, much less have any fun. That's whay I stopped playing the Open and started GMing.
Of course, the Open is different. You mae your rolls in front of everyone and your job is the challengwe the players as much as possible, using the rules and scenarios and tactics provided. SO I roleplayed characters, and I palyed by the rules and even if I got the adventure in the mail just days before, my players never knew. And, because it was the kind of event it is, I TPKd a lot of parties. More than half.
The reason I say this is, I know the pool of GMs at GenCon every year that Paizo uses. I know maybe dozens of them, andthey are class acts. I know players from all over and I know they have fun and have a grasp on the rules. I don't think anyone is unduly exalting in their ability to kill a PC. But being a GM for the RPGA, I really did have two complaints against me that were radically false in their assertions.
Sometimes we players don't like to acknowledge our mistakes. In my first year as a PFS GM, my very frst table, Josh Frost pulls me aside and says "This isn't the RPGA, so try not to just go kill everybody, but if players make mistakes, they don't have any special protection, and the bad guys are allowed to be bad guys." So my first table was entirely sold into slavery instead. The players thought it was funny and somewhat realistic (and got to keep their characters, if the leprosy didn't get them first), and there were no complaints.
PFS has done a great job getting scenarios to GMs on time, and has a better pool of GMs than the RPGA usually had. Complaints about a mis-stepping GM or a singular bad experience should not be made without a)accepting complaints about 'unfair' PC death with a grain of salt, and b) acknowledging the great job Paizo has done with an organization that has seens tiff competition, a brand new game and changes in leadership.
It's still the best format for organized play for my money, and the GMs I've seen in action are a big part of that.
If this is a serious question, I will give you one scenario that I have actually seen happen more than once in LG.
It's a very serious question. I hear stories like this coming out of conventions all the time. It doesn't matter if its Pathfinder or Pokemon. A player should never put themselves in a position to squander several days and several hundred dollars if they lose a game.
-- You should begin play with the expectation that you will lose
-- If your character is killed, you should have a back-up plan of things to do in the local area
-- Attending a CON should never be a self-imposed financial hardship; stay home
With that said, I find it shocking that any GM would boast about killing off a player character considering how much money is involved. That sort of behavior should get the GM banned.
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If this is a serious question, I will give you one scenario that I have actually seen happen more than once in LG.It's a very serious question. I hear stories like this coming out of conventions all the time. It doesn't matter if its Pathfinder or Pokemon. A player should never put themselves in a position to squander several days and several hundred dollars if they lose a game.
-- You should begin play with the expectation that you will lose
-- If your character is killed, you should have a back-up plan of things to do in the local area
-- Attending a CON should never be a self-imposed financial hardship; stay home
With that said, I find it shocking that any GM would boast about killing off a player character considering how much money is involved. That sort of behavior should get the GM banned.
I'm sure Mike is dealing with all of this behind the scenes and it's information and emails that we as the general public don't necessairly need access to. It's unfortuante that the dirty laundry of the con was aired in a public forum vs. being taken to Mike to be dealt with at the time, but that happens.
We don't have the whole story, we have a scued one-sided version of what happened. If we had the whole story I'd say we were free to comment, but we don't and so in my opnion are aren't.
I know I'm going to be ignored, but can we just let this go and let the topic die so that all of those that had a good time at the con and remember that not and not this thread?
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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-- You should begin play with the expectation that you will lose
A little extreme, but an accurate assumption. In card games (your Pokemon example works, but Magic would be a better example), you can spend $30+ to play in a tournament and be ousted within a couple rounds. No one gets upset there. Well, they do, but for different reasons. It should be something you can deal with, is all I'm agreeing with.
-- If your character is killed, you should have a back-up plan of things to do in the local area
Which goes in line with this. There are plenty of things to do, including start a new character.
-- Attending a CON should never be a self-imposed financial hardship; stay home
Absolutely. If you're going to be put out financially, especially if you "lose" at whatever game you chose to play for the weekend, you should reevaluate what you're doing.
With that said, I find it shocking that any GM would boast about killing off a player character considering how much money is involved. That sort of behavior should get the GM banned.
Agreed. I wish GMs would back off this attitude, personally, or at least keep it private. But, to each their own.
By the way, Orc, how did you get the handle to stick? Seems the filters don't like it in the text blocks. But they're okay with you having it as a name? Side note: I love how the filter gives it actual graphic representation...
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I'm sure Mike is dealing with all of this behind the scenes and it's information and emails that we as the general public don't necessairly need access to. It's unfortuante that the dirty laundry of the con was aired in a public forum vs. being taken to Mike to be dealt with at the time, but that happens.
We don't have the whole story, we have a scued one-sided version of what happened. If we had the whole story I'd say we were free to comment, but we don't and so in my opnion are aren't.
I know I'm going to be ignored, but can we just let this go and let the topic die so that all of those that had a good time at the con and remember that not and not this thread?
Well said. Thanks Thea.
By the way, Orc, how did you get the handle to stick?
I'm sorry friend, I don't follow your meaning. What handle? :)
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I'm sorry friend, I don't follow your meaning. What handle? :)
By the way, Orc, how did you get the handle to stick?
Well, those handles, specifically.
And this one's getting the best filter yet! I'm dyin', here...
[Edit] Aww...it changed from the original post...
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Why you would bring complaints to a public forum a week after the con instead of when I am available at the con is beyond me. If you had brought it to my attention at the time of the incident, I could have addressed it then.
th that said, both DMs were well prepared ahead of time. I am aware of one of the instances you mentioned and I know you are only giving a partial account. If you wish to discuss further, my email is mbrock@Georgiapfs.org.
As to the Saturday evening, you and your wife both played the special and no one died so I'm not sure what you are referring to.
Why didn't I bring it to you? Because I didn't know who you were other than the guy who ran the special. No one introduced us or anything like this.
Why did I do it in such a public place? Because I didn't know how else to bring up a grievance.
Since you gave me your email address I will take it there.
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OK. Let me step back a minute. I spoke to a friend of mine who was at the con and he was kind enough to slap some sense into me.
I AM WRITING THIS WITHOUT READING ANYTHING PAST VENTURE CAPTAIN BROCK'S POST. I will go back and read the rest after I post this.
First. It was not my intent to blanketly paint a bad picture of the whole convention. I mentioned the con I was at because I wanted to be up front with who I was. Other than the specific instances I mentioned, I had a good time at the con. The folks at Con Nooga should be commended and I heartily recommend to anyone to attend.
I also didn't mean to blankeyly critisize ALL DMs.
For that I deeply aplogize.
Why did I go public like this? Because I don't know any other way to voice my problems or get things fixed. No one ever gave me a means to contact anyone "in charge" at the convention.
If I did it wrong, I am sorry. If I offended, I am sorry. It was not my intention.
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OK. Let me step back a minute. I spoke to a friend of mine who was at the con and he was kind enough to slap some sense into me.
I AM WRITING THIS WITHOUT READING ANYTHING PAST VENTURE CAPTAIN BROCK'S POST. I will go back and read the rest after I post this.
First. It was not my intent to blanketly paint a bad picture of the whole convention. I mentioned the con I was at because I wanted to be up front with who I was. Other than the specific instances I mentioned, I had a good time at the con. The folks at Con Nooga should be commended and I heartily recommend to anyone to attend.
I also didn't mean to blankeyly critisize ALL DMs.
For that I deeply aplogize.
Why did I go public like this? Because I don't know any other way to voice my problems or get things fixed. No one ever gave me a means to contact anyone "in charge" at the convention.
If I did it worng, I am sorry. If I offended, I am sorry. It was not my intention.
The problem is that you (the generic group, no you specifically) can't really get anything 'fixed' by posting something on the boards. Regardless of how characters die, no one here can 'give life' to the PC. Pretty much once you sit down at a table in PFS, the DM's word is law, unless you make a complaint to the powers that be while at the convention. Don't know who that is? Then you need to ask someone there.
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With that said, I find it shocking that any GM would boast about killing off a player character considering how much money is involved. That sort of behavior should get the GM banned.Agreed. I wish GMs would back off this attitude, personally, or at least keep it private. But, to each their own.
Adversarial GMing and PC kill boasting requires an extremely good rapport between player and GM or it risks turning sour.
I have on single occasions had fun retelling how a PC died, but always had the player in on it too. PC deaths can be as memorable as successes.
In most circumstances the best thing for the GM to do, is yo give the player a pat on the back and urge them to come back with a new great character... and just leave it at that.
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The problem is that you (the generic group, no you specifically) can't really get anything 'fixed' by posting something on the boards. Regardless of how characters die, no one here can 'give life' to the PC. Pretty much once you sit down at a table in PFS, the DM's word is law, unless you make a complaint to the powers that be while at the convention. Don't know who that is? Then you need to ask someone there.OK. Let me step back a minute. I spoke to a friend of mine who was at the con and he was kind enough to slap some sense into me.
I AM WRITING THIS WITHOUT READING ANYTHING PAST VENTURE CAPTAIN BROCK'S POST. I will go back and read the rest after I post this.
First. It was not my intent to blanketly paint a bad picture of the whole convention. I mentioned the con I was at because I wanted to be up front with who I was. Other than the specific instances I mentioned, I had a good time at the con. The folks at Con Nooga should be commended and I heartily recommend to anyone to attend.
I also didn't mean to blankeyly critisize ALL DMs.
For that I deeply aplogize.
Why did I go public like this? Because I don't know any other way to voice my problems or get things fixed. No one ever gave me a means to contact anyone "in charge" at the convention.
If I did it worng, I am sorry. If I offended, I am sorry. It was not my intention.
Perhaps this is something that might be added to the introduction that we as GMs do at the beginning of a game at a convention. "You may not agree with the calls I make as the GM. That's OK. Some of us have different views on how the rules are applied, but arguing about it at the table only slows the game down. I ask that you consider this if you disagree with any of my calls. If you feel that I am doing something that is so egregious* that your enjoyment of the game is suffering, you have the right to appeal to the Event Coordinator at HQ. However, in order to effect a change to the results of this session you will need to speak with the Event Coordinator before the table breaks up at the end of the game."
Or something to that effect.*Etimology of "egregious" does not come from Greg Vaughan as many believe
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Stuff
Eck! I know what you are saying, but I really don't want to read a disclaimer that sounds like a car commercial before each game. Not to mention that it makes it sound like we are prone to mistakes (GM's are perfect aren't they?) and what the player need to do to complain about it. IMO, this would set a bad 'vibe' at the table.
I do, however, think that it is important that the organizer make a loud, vocal announcement at the start of every session when they start mustering. Declare who they are and where players can go if they have any questions. It does not have include language about complaints, etc., just a brief FYI.
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StuffEck! I know what you are saying, but I really don't want to read a disclaimer that sounds like a car commercial before each game. Not to mention that it makes it sound like I am prone to mistakes and what the player need to do to complain about it. IMO, this would set a bad 'vibe' at the table.
I do, however, think that it is important that the organizer make a loud, vocal announcement at the start of every session when they start mustering. Declare who they are and where players can go if they have any questions. It does not have include language about complaints, etc., just a brief FYI.
Maybe it's just me, but I've always made sure I know who is in charge of the operation and what I need to do if I have a problem.
I agree with Twi/Kni I already give a small disclaimer, but I don't know if I want to add more to it .. As it is tho I do point out the coordinator for people that want a different table if they feel they won't fare well at mine.
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StuffEck! I know what you are saying, but I really don't want to read a disclaimer that sounds like a car commercial before each game. Not to mention that it makes it sound like we are prone to mistakes (GM's are perfect aren't they?) and what the player need to do to complain about it. IMO, this would set a bad 'vibe' at the table.
I do, however, think that it is important that the organizer make a loud, vocal announcement at the start of every session when they start mustering. Declare who they are and where players can go if they have any questions. It does not have include language about complaints, etc., just a brief FYI.
Playing with TwilightKnight as GM may cause drowsiness so your PC should not operate a two-handed weapon or ride a mount at his table. Other side effects include conditions such as, but not limited to, blindness, deafness, drooling, fatigue, dying, exhaustion, geriatric profanity disorder, nausea and projectile emesis. TwilightKnight is not a substitute for a real Game Master and Paizo Publishing is not responsible for table experiences below his Star ranking.
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Playing with TwilightKnight as GM may cause drowsiness so your PC should not operate a two-handed weapon or ride a mount at his table. Other side effects include conditions such as, but not limited to, blindness, deafness, drooling, fatigue, dying, exhaustion, geriatric profanity disorder, nausea and projectile emesis. TwilightKnight is not a substitute for a real Game Master and Paizo Publishing is not responsible for table experiences below his Star ranking.
Now that's an intro I could get excited about :-)
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Playing with TwilightKnight as GM may cause drowsiness so your PC should not operate a two-handed weapon or ride a mount at his table. Other side effects include conditions such as, but not limited to, blindness, deafness, drooling, fatigue, dying, exhaustion, geriatric profanity disorder, nausea and projectile emesis. TwilightKnight is not a substitute for a real Game Master and Paizo Publishing is not responsible for table experiences below his Star ranking.hrmm .. sounds about right....
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I hate to cast disillusion on the "I ddint know who he was" post but its well known that the venture captains special can only be run by a venture captain and it was very obvious who all the GM's were under just by watching for a few minutes, and before you ask yes i was at the con, yes I was in orcsmashers game that he is referring to, and I dont feel the situation was reported without a heavy slant against the DM. Ive been killed by this DM at the last con and i still signed up for his games knowing he was running them and was happy about it. I didnt get to see the so called gloating by I have seen this DM in action and didnt see anything in that DM's style that would lead to gloating. Also I will say mr Brock is more than willing to help a player and I will attest that he did so for my poorly situated table at the shadow lodge.
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As stated HERE, yes it can be run by 4-star GMs and Venture Captains only for one year.
Seeing as all the 4 and 5 star GMs I know .. EDIT: Knew of are Venture Captains (except I just now have seen that Twilight is a 4 star -- congrats by the way), I think this is where the nickname "Venture Captain Special" came from.
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As stated HERE, yes it can be run by 4-star GMs and Venture Captains only for one year.
Seeing as all the 4 and 5 star GMs I know of are Venture Captains (except I just now have seen that Twilight is a 4 star), I think this is where the nickname "Venture Captain Special" came from.
is Kyle a 4 star yet?
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Hmmm. For those that care about such things, I'm a less-than-one star GM, so feel free to stop reading.
My philosophy as a GM is to do everything in my power to make my players believe they can die at any moment -- that I want them to die, even -- but then do everything I can (within reason) to avoid that outcome. I roll all my dice in the open when GMing organized play, so if you catch a greataxe crit at first level, you're probably going to die. That said, I intentionally have opponents do tactically sub-optimal things if it looks like I might get a TPK, especially with newer players. Of course I also take the intelligence and motivations of the enemies into account, but I generally try to err on the side of the players.
Just my $.02. :)