Well, the thought was replacing 1 crappy 50k per year teacher with 2 decent 25k teachers is better bang for the buck...but maybe they don't have the money for that either.
I forgot the possibility of the CB contract not allowing non-union teachers.Hey, maybe we could hire some highly-qualified rocket scientists for $10 an hour, too?
Why does it seem so hard for some people to understand that if you want to hire and retain talented, well-educated people, you should expect to compete for them? I flirted with the idea of becoming a teacher once...until I learned I'd make LESS THAN HALF of what I made. I literally couldn't afford to be a teacher.
I realise this is something of a shock B but you and I are gonna disagree on that one.
You pay for folks that perform well not the same rate outta the gate because every bodies in the same glee club.
I have had some great teachers that really pushed their students to learn whether they wanted to or not and they were the ones that were teaching for 20+ yrs but I also had an alchoholic history teacher that had so much whiskey in her coffee cup we could smell it in the entire class room. It took forever to get rid of her non-working lazy but, I was teaching my fellow high school students U.S. History because she was so drunk she could barely follow her lesson plan.
I will agree that for the qualifications demanded to become a teacher thye should be paid 50K or so a year but when you look at all the other benifits associated with being a teacher thye are makeing alot more than they are worth.
Should it be illegal to replace striking public sector workers?
If most of us in the private sector strike we risk losing our jobs. Should public sector employees be treated the same in that regard?
I'm not sure if the post you replied to was referring to the Democratic legislators or the state workers.
I don't believe that replacing any striking workers, public or private, should be illegal. Did I give this impression?
I do believe that preventing people from unionizing (or to firing them if they do) should be illegal.
I don't think you gave that impression.
I think some people are just frustrated by public sector sick outs when a sick out would a whole lot of private sector employees fired. I think it's also infuriating to someone who has been out of work for a year or two to listen to teachers making $50,000+ a year with great benefits complain about how rough having to pay for more of those benefits is. I think our public sector is bloated and insanely wasteful in most cases, so I am happy to see some public sector cuts. I think the perception that public sector workers have become the "haves" and the rest of the tax payers are rapidly becoming the "have nots" is going to get worse and worse as unemployment and underemployment becomes worse and worse.
In the case of WI, I don't think benefits and pay are the core issue any more as the unions agreed to concessions. I think we are left with collective bargaining being the core issue. If CB is a voluntary process then I support it. Of course if it's voluntary than neither party is forced to bargain by another party.
If the bargaining takes place voluntarily at the local level and the state (as a third party) is prohibiting that bargaining then I take issue with that. If the state as an employer is opting out of collective bargaining with state employees then I'm OK with that.
Unfortunately who is considered a state employee as opposed to a city or county or school district employee is very convoluted in some states. For example, I don't know if teachers contracts are negotiated at the school district level of the state level in WI. In Colorado many county employees are considered state employees and belong to the state employees union. An effect of this odd arrangement is that it's virtually impossible to fire these workers unless they are convicted of a felony. They are also effectively immune to civil lawsuits for committing malfeasance in the course of their official duties outside of a felony conviction.
Illegally recorded?
If the person who records the wire, electronic, or oral communication is a party to the conversation or has obtained prior consent from one party, he may lawfully record and divulge the contents of the communication, unless he does so for the purpose of committing a criminal or tortious act. Wis. Stat. § 968.31
Rumoured? Unless the washington post is lying, the governors office confirmed that the call was real.
False pretenses I would agree with. And I don't think its a series of world shaking revelations, I just think its interesting.
If it was an interstate phone call it may be more complicated than that.
Well, the thought was replacing 1 crappy 50k per year teacher with 2 decent 25k teachers is better bang for the buck...but maybe they don't have the money for that either.Why stop there? They could hire 10 AMAZING teachers for 5k each!
Kidding aside, why does it seem so hard for some people to understand that if you want to hire and retain talented, well-educated people, you should expect to compete for them? I flirted with the idea of becoming a teacher once...until I learned I'd make LESS THAN HALF of what I made at the time. I literally couldn't afford to be a teacher.
I think some teachers should be paid better and some teachers should be fired. I think that for pretty much all public and private employees. Of course I also think quite a few government services should be eliminated from the public sector virtually in their entirety.
I would also point out that teachers unions seem to be the biggest impediment to higher teacher pay based on merit rather than seniority.
Well, the thought was replacing 1 crappy 50k per year teacher with 2 decent 25k teachers is better bang for the buck...but maybe they don't have the money for that either.Why stop there? They could hire 10 AMAZING teachers for 5k each.
Why does it seem so hard for some people to understand that if you want to hire and retain talented, well-educated people, you should expect to compete for them? I flirted with the idea of becoming a teacher once...until I learned I'd make LESS THAN HALF of what I made. I literally couldn't afford to be a teacher.
I am not sure where you were going to get a teaching job, but I feel for the community. After all, teacher salaries and benefits are worth way more than advertised. In the case of Wisconsin, a starting teacher gets a $24k salary (for nine months) and over $50k value in his or her benefits package. If they stay on with the state, their raises outpace CPI, their healthcare is almost free, and they don't contribute to a pretty smooth retirement. An Ohio University economist compiled data from the US DoL and learned some interesting things: In 2001, public school teachers earned more per week than architects, civil engineers, mechanical engineers, statisticians, biological and life scientists, atmospheric and space scientists, registered nurses, physical therapists, librarians, technical writers, musicians, editors, reporters ad more.
Sure, we should pay great teachers great salaries, keep them in our states, and have them mentor other great teachers, just like any leader in any other work force. But allowing state employees to bargain while holding the state hostage is potentially (and realistically) vamipiric.
I grant teachers everywhere don't get that sweet a deal. There's a reason: no one can afford it.
Not that I think teachers shouldn't be paid well. But that should be an individual teacher's right to negotiate, based on their performance and ability to sell themselves. You know, like everywhere else.
I see 'teachers' a lot here, it's worth noting the issue with organizing is for all state employees, barring first responders. If you allow them to retain the ability to colelctively bargain the benfits you have to cut, they will simply strike to get those benefits back next contract, and the long term damage to the budget is not ameliorated. It has to go. The state can pay what the state can pay, and asking struggling taxpayers to shoulder a deal twice as lucrative as what they get paid on average is worthy of ridicule.
I also had an alchoholic history teacher that had so much whiskey in her coffee cup we could smell it in the entire class room. It took forever to get rid of her non-working lazy but, I was teaching my fellow high school students U.S. History because she was so drunk she could barely follow her lesson plan.What is it with alcoholic teachers and getting rid of them that is so hard? I had an english teacher that was the same way. His solution: Take out the VCR and show us old Dobie Gillis episodes. It took almost 10 years to fire him.
I had an interesting mix of great, horrible, and mediocre teachers in public school in Texas growing up in the 70's and 80's. My third grade teacher was dreadful and she quit after her first year, but as far as I know none of my other really bad teachers ever got out of the profession.
I had an interesting mix of great, horrible, and mediocre teachers in public school in Texas growing up in the 70's and 80's. My third grade teacher was dreadful and she quit after her first year, but as far as I know none of my other really bad teachers ever got out of the profession.I also had an alchoholic history teacher that had so much whiskey in her coffee cup we could smell it in the entire class room. It took forever to get rid of her non-working lazy but, I was teaching my fellow high school students U.S. History because she was so drunk she could barely follow her lesson plan.What is it with alcoholic teachers and getting rid of them that is so hard? I had an english teacher that was the same way. His solution: Take out the VCR and show us old Dobie Gillis episodes. It took almost 10 years to fire him.
Why would you voluntarily leave a job with no incentive to excel or repurcussions for less than mediocrity?
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Why would you voluntarily leave a job with no incentive to excel or repurcussions for less than mediocrity?I had an interesting mix of great, horrible, and mediocre teachers in public school in Texas growing up in the 70's and 80's. My third grade teacher was dreadful and she quit after her first year, but as far as I know none of my other really bad teachers ever got out of the profession.I also had an alchoholic history teacher that had so much whiskey in her coffee cup we could smell it in the entire class room. It took forever to get rid of her non-working lazy but, I was teaching my fellow high school students U.S. History because she was so drunk she could barely follow her lesson plan.What is it with alcoholic teachers and getting rid of them that is so hard? I had an english teacher that was the same way. His solution: Take out the VCR and show us old Dobie Gillis episodes. It took almost 10 years to fire him.
Are we talking about teachers, or janitorial staff? :P
stuff
I'd rather pay a teacher that wants to teach, not someone who thinks they're a glorified babysitter, and is somehow entitled to the work.
Are we talking about teachers, or janitorial staff? :P
LOL
A great example of "If the shoe fits..."...
I am not sure where you were going to get a teaching job, but I feel for the community. After all, teacher salaries and benefits are worth way more than advertised. In the case of Wisconsin, a starting teacher gets a $24k salary (for nine months) and over $50k value in his or her benefits package. If they stay on with the state, their raises outpace CPI, their healthcare is almost free, and they don't contribute to a pretty smooth retirement. An Ohio University economist compiled data from the US DoL and learned some interesting things: In 2001, public school teachers earned more per week than architects, civil engineers, mechanical engineers, statisticians, biological and life scientists, atmospheric and space scientists, registered nurses, physical therapists, librarians, technical writers, musicians, editors, reporters ad more.
I'll tell you where: Tempe, AZ.
In 2004, when I was considering becoming a teacher in the Tempe district, I was being paid 70k to do C++ QA for an accounting firm in neighboring Scottsdale (with a bachelor's degree).
Two years later, my (now-ex) wife actually became a teacher in the Tempe school district. Her starting salary? 31k. As of 2010 she was up near 35k. Also with a bachelor's degree.
As for other benefits? To this day, all of my children remain on my insurance. The co-pays are lower, and the benefits are better. Teachers do enjoy summers off, true, but that's about the only benefit I can see.
I'll tell you where: Tempe, AZ.In 2004, when I was considering becoming a teacher in the Tempe district, I was being paid 70k to do C++ QA for an accounting firm in neighboring Scottsdale (with a bachelor's degree).
Two years later, my (now-ex) wife actually became a teacher in the Tempe school district. Her starting salary? 31k. As of 2010 she was up near 35k. Also with a bachelor's degree.
As for other benefits? To this day, my children remain on my insurance. The co-pays are lower, and the benefits are better. Teachers do enjoy summers off, true, but that's about the only benefit I can see.
You mean the private sector does something better than the government?
Color me shocked.
I'll tell you where: Tempe, AZ.In 2004, when I was considering becoming a teacher in the Tempe district, I was being paid 70k to do C++ QA for an accounting firm in neighboring Scottsdale (with a bachelor's degree).
Two years later, my (now-ex) wife actually became a teacher in the Tempe school district. Her starting salary? 31k. As of 2010 she was up near 35k. Also with a bachelor's degree.
As for other benefits? To this day, my children remain on my insurance. The co-pays are lower, and the benefits are better. Teachers do enjoy summers off, true, but that's about the only benefit I can see.
You mean the private sector does something better than the government?
Color me shocked.
Let's keep our eyes on the ball, shall we? The contention was that teachers are overpaid (or even reasonably paid). Where I live, that is simply not the case.
I taught High School in Virginia, from 1996-2001. I had a degree in the relevant subject matter, was halfway to a Master's, and was certified to teach my subject and level. Started with the highest recommendations. Relevant statistics:
Starting salary: $19,000/year (ended at roughly $23K)
Health care: No better than I have now
Retirement Package: None that I'll ever see
Kids per class: 36+
Planning Period: None
Unpaid additional duties (clubs, etc): 2
Summers off: None
Hours worked per week: 60+
I moved to industry and started making triple my former salary for roughly half to two-thirds as much work.
Yes, some of my so-called "colleagues" were worth a lot less than that, but still, come on.
I taught High School in Virginia, from 1996-2001. I had a degree in the relevant subject matter, was halfway to a Master's, and was certified to teach my subject and level. Started with the highest recommendations. Relevant statistics:
Starting salary: $19,000/year (ended at roughly $23K)
Health care: No better than I have now
Retirement Package: None that I'll ever see
Kids per class: 36+
Planning Period: None
Unpaid additional duties (clubs, etc): 2
Summers off: None
Hours worked per week: 60+I moved to industry and started making triple my former salary for roughly half to two-thirds as much work.
Yes, some of my so-called "colleagues" were worth a lot less than that, but still, come on.
23K? Leech!
You're now living off a fat government pension, right?
Are we talking about teachers, or janitorial staff? :PLOL
A great example of "If the shoe fits..."...
And that, right there, is another problem. Assuming I could afford to take a giant pay cut, why would I? So I could be compared to the janitor?
They b&$## a lot about Unions but if there were not Unions would you enjoy bidding for your right to work in competition with all those other hungry workers prepared to do your job for less?My two cents....
While yes unions are important....though I would like to see laws pass that curtail their power...as they have gotten too powerful for the good of the invidual(I am against the big three...bussiness...unions...and goverment...all three seem to screw over the invidual). But what the proper course of action according to our laws woiuld be to vote on it...than take it to the courts. Not allowing it to pass by fleeing the state seem wrong to me. Though from what I read...I also thing the law is wrong. But I believe it should be fought within the system.
Wow this thread exploded...nothing like politics.
Just want to respond to this.
Actualy that is what I do now...I have never worked a job that was union. And right now like alot of people I am desparete for work...without unions making companies pay too high of a fee...than you know maybe a company could afford to hire me.
As I said I think unions are great...but just because they are Unions I don't think they should be held immune to goverment regulations. Just like everything made by man it is subject to abuse and coruption. We have checks and balances in our goverent to try to keep it in check(though it seems we need more)...we have regulation on corps and such to keep them from trampling the little guy. Should we not do the same to unions?
I am not talking about crippling them...just hold them accountable.
Plus he's a war criminal and broke he Geneva convention!
That's not a lie. Bush and his cronies DID break the Geneva convention and U.S. law. According to federal law, any pact or international treaty that we enter into and Congress ratifies, carries the full effect of being U.S. law. And since the Geneva Convention is a set of laws about conduct during war. And our ROE is based on the Geneva Convention. Torture is illegal.
When I was on the admiral's staff, we had to make sure everything we did was in accordance with international law and treaties and etc...
Did we torture a member of an opposing military? How do we define what that torture is? Did we rape anyone or cut off their head on the internet? Bamboo under the fingernails?
The Geneva conventions apply to uniformed military combatants. Shooting a wounded terrorist because the last wounded terrorist hid a grenade on his body hardly qualifies. Dealing zero permanent damage to a scumbag who promises the next terrorist attack is imminent, in order to save thousands of civilian lives, is hardly torture under the same auspice as beating someone's name and rank out of them or breaking fingers until you're given troop locations.
How high and mighty are we to judge the folk trying to keep us safe while we sit on the Paizo boards and accuse them of horror. Put you or I in that position, pressure us with the potential of another 9/11, and not one of us can predict how we'd react. Maybe you'd see the light and do what had to be done to save lives. Maybe I'd vomit and cry in a corner rather than face the hardness of the task.
If a bomb had gone off at LAX and we hadn't tried to stop it, there'd be more nutbar allegations that Bush and Cheney let it happen for political expediency. If we're not going to allow our leadership to win either way, I guess it's best they err on the side of saving lives.
Oh. And this has nothing to do with Wisconsin.
It doesn't, but now that we've gone there... I AM a uniformed military combatant, and yes, we DO participate in torture. We outsource it to interrogators from cultures outside of our own. Not a pretty truth.
Frankly, we SHOULD make interrogation legal IMHO, but until we are, we are breaking the law and morally wrong for what we are doing.
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1. Its not about them being overpaid State workers in Wis make 5% below public sector workers even including benefits.
2. Their Pension is fully funded and is in no jeopardy of causing budget issues (Its one of the highest rated pensions in the USA).
3. The issue is entirely over collective bargaining rights, the unions not being able to deduct dues from paychecks and instead have to collect it from individual members and the yearly recertification of a Union.
4. The Budget fix bill is a fiscal crisis created entirely by the Govenor and has nothing to do with out of control wages/benefits for public employees it has to do with him giving away 140 million dollars in tax breaks which will cost the state of Wisconsin over 3 billion dollars in the future due to losses of revenue.
5. The Budget fix bill also sells off the state run power plants with no oversight in no bid contracts to the private sector. You know no bid contracts that end up costing you the tax payer serious amounts of cash?
6. It fails the equal protection under the law clause anyway so the Unions will sue, get an injunction and it will never survive court.
You're now living off a fat government pension, right?
If you (a) don't teach the requisite number of years in the same state, (b) don't teach all the way to retirement, (c) don't retire from teaching in the correct state, (d) are forced into early retirement, or (e) your district just decides to cut benefits, then you get NOTHING.
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Let's see. What I've learned from this thread...
Teachers are interrogated on a regular basis and the UN can't do anything about it.
You shouldn't wear tinfoil hats in the winter.
Nazis are overpaid and should have to pay for their own benefits.
Wisconsin will secede from the Union if they can get enough legislators to show up to vote.
Janitors have a hard time cleaning up Skittles.
And some guy named Beck is skillfully taking over the world.
Did I miss anything?
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Let's see. What I've learned from this thread...
Teachers are interrogated on a regular basis and the UN can't do anything about it.
You shouldn't wear tinfoil hats in the winter.
Nazis are overpaid and should have to pay for their own benefits.
Wisconsin will secede from the Union if they can get enough legislators to show up to vote.
Janitors have a hard time cleaning up Skittles.
And some guy named Beck is skillfully taking over the world.Did I miss anything?
How awesome I am!
Edit: and I like pie.
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Teachers are overpaid. Duh.Let's see. What I've learned from this thread...
Teachers are interrogated on a regular basis and the UN can't do anything about it.
You shouldn't wear tinfoil hats in the winter.
Nazis are overpaid and should have to pay for their own benefits.
Wisconsin will secede from the Union if they can get enough legislators to show up to vote.
Janitors have a hard time cleaning up Skittles.
And some guy named Beck is skillfully taking over the world.Did I miss anything?
You forgot the Koch Brothers are so confident they will own Wisconsin's power plants they are already advertising for plant managers despite the vote not happening yet.
..... Frankly, all around, people need to become more civil with their discourse. The first step is to remove the pundits from the airwaves, ON BOTH SIDES.What do you mean by, " The first step is to remove the pundits from the airwaves, ON BOTH SIDES."?
What I mean is that there should be a charter that limits the media news corporations from reporting anything other then... News. Reporting does have core ideals, and one of those is that you are NOT there to make the news, just to report it.
I feel, strongly, that the "right" (all personal rights are capable of being suspended, as such I'm not a huge fan of the phrase) of free speech has run amok and been abused.
The problem is how do we regulate it, where do we draw the line? When does defamation, slander, and libel reqally come to play? I'm not sure, but I know that people should not be conversing in the manner that they are on the major new networks.
You're now living off a fat government pension, right?If you (a) don't teach the requisite number of years in the same state, (b) don't teach all the way to retirement, (c) don't retire from teaching in the correct state, (d) are forced into early retirement, or (e) your district just decides to cut benefits, then you get NOTHING.
Liar.
I just snapped this picture of you at home. For shame!
Teachers are overpaid. Duh.Let's see. What I've learned from this thread...
Teachers are interrogated on a regular basis and the UN can't do anything about it.
You shouldn't wear tinfoil hats in the winter.
Nazis are overpaid and should have to pay for their own benefits.
Wisconsin will secede from the Union if they can get enough legislators to show up to vote.
Janitors have a hard time cleaning up Skittles.
And some guy named Beck is skillfully taking over the world.Did I miss anything?
D&D 4th edition and the edition wars were a secret plot by the Koch Brothers and the Trilateral Commission to divide and conquer among the only group of people who could've stopped their nefarious plans!
..... Frankly, all around, people need to become more civil with their discourse. The first step is to remove the pundits from the airwaves, ON BOTH SIDES.What do you mean by, " The first step is to remove the pundits from the airwaves, ON BOTH SIDES."?What I mean is that there should be a charter that limits the media news corporations from reporting anything other then... News. Reporting does have core ideals, and one of those is that you are NOT there to make the news, just to report it.
I feel, strongly, that the "right" (all personal rights are capable of being suspended, as such I'm not a huge fan of the phrase) of free speech has run amok and been abused.
The problem is how do we regulate it, where do we draw the line? When does defamation, slander, and libel reqally come to play? I'm not sure, but I know that people should not be conversing in the manner that they are on the major new networks.
Wow! I could not disagree more.
Illegally recorded?
Fair enough. My meaning is that faking a phone call and then recording it without the pther party's knowledge is poor form, and doesn't prove anything. Moreover, if there were any sort of legal issue relating to the phone call,, it would be thrown out. The reasons for this are that the phone call is deceitful and can confuse facts in the first place, and that it violates self-incrimination principles. In this case, someone lied and tried to use that crafted lie against someone, making it both unethical and unreliable.
Rumoured? Unless the washington post is lying, the governors office confirmed that the call was real.
Is there another article other than the one you linked to? Because the article doesn't say the conversation is real or that the governor admitted it was real. It mentions a call that may have been placed and recorded, and says that comments from the governor's office imply it could have been real. But even then, an attempt by the Post to look like a transcript isn't sufficient. We either have the recording, and reason to believe it wasn't modified (by adversarial forces who were willing to lie about the conversation to begin with), or we do not.
False pretenses I would agree with. And I don't think its a series of world shaking revelations, I just think its interesting. It is not often that you get to hear that sort of planning outside of a west wing episode.
I maintain we still haven't. Nothing in that article supports that the legislation in question is anything but the tough decisions Walker campaigned and won on. Nothing about calling Axelrod names carries any weight. Axelrod is pretty well known for his political hardball and adversarial feelings toward conservatives, right? Rahm is pretty well know for his abrasive language. I don't think referring to them in such coarse terms is anything new or indicative of some kind of scam to screw the little guy. Not that you are, necessarily.
..... Frankly, all around, people need to become more civil with their discourse. The first step is to remove the pundits from the airwaves, ON BOTH SIDES.What do you mean by, " The first step is to remove the pundits from the airwaves, ON BOTH SIDES."?What I mean is that there should be a charter that limits the media news corporations from reporting anything other then... News. Reporting does have core ideals, and one of those is that you are NOT there to make the news, just to report it.
I feel, strongly, that the "right" (all personal rights are capable of being suspended, as such I'm not a huge fan of the phrase) of free speech has run amok and been abused.
The problem is how do we regulate it, where do we draw the line? When does defamation, slander, and libel reqally come to play? I'm not sure, but I know that people should not be conversing in the manner that they are on the major new networks.
You know what is really scary....the 'New" networks( on both sides) classfied themselves as Entertainment when the FDC(I am probably messing up my acromyns here...) tried to regulate them. So there actualy don't have to report the news...it is all entertainment. Which is what all all do...welcome to America greatest country in the world where you vote for bread and circus...:)
The problem is how do we regulate it, where do we draw the line? When does defamation, slander, and libel reqally come to play? I'm not sure, but I know that people should not be conversing in the manner that they are on the major new networks.
We do not. We let people say what they want, even if it's pretty clear they are insane. We allow dialogue and debate. We let the market decide who is on the radio, because intervention is unConstitutional. We don't let juveniles scream fire in a crowded theater, but we don't tell people they are too conservative or too liberal or too opinionated about something.
And we also don't get bent out of shape when someone uses free speech to humiliate and badger someone until they get punched in the mouth. Cause in my opinion we go too far the other direction, too, sometimes.
Not that anyoen here qualifies to be hit, but maybe the occsaional young punk with an interest in one of my daughters. : }
...and I like pie.
You keep saying that yet fail to offer any proof other than your word. Come on now, you are a lawyer…right? Where's the evidence?
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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You keep saying that yet fail to offer any proof other than your word. Come on now, you are a lawyer…right? Where's the evidence?...and I like pie.
I'm not offering proof to your baseless assertion that I don't like pie. You and your non-pie friends have long tarnished the good reputation of we pie-lovers, with your weaponized pies and hatred for all things berry.
The Republicans used this tactic in 2008 in both Arizona and Texas, so it's not limited to the Democratic party by any means. Don't write it up as so.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for myself, I don't care what the political alignment is of the people skipping out of their job. I think they should work within the system they have. It is not like any thing that is passed can't later be changed or ruled unconstitutional. There is no permanency in politics.
I'm not offering proof to your baseless assertion that I don't like pie. You and your non-pie friends have long tarnished the good reputation of we pie-lovers, with your weaponized pies and hatred for all things berry.You keep saying that yet fail to offer any proof other than your word. Come on now, you are a lawyer…right? Where's the evidence?...and I like pie.
What no Pecan??
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You keep saying that yet fail to offer any proof other than your word. Come on now, you are a lawyer…right? Where's the evidence?...and I like pie.
Well...
My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Sebastian eat Skittles pie.
And considering the Rainbow Pony ... that's just wrong.
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As to the criminalization of this behavior (scooting out of state so you don't have to vote). I wonder if the people these congressmen represent could start a petition to have them removed from office for failing in their duties.
This happened in Texas some time ago. The democratic members of the state legislature fled to Oklahoma. The governor sent the state troopers after them, with the governor of Oklahoma's consent.
However, that being said, in Texas there is a law which allows employers to fire their employees for job abandonment.
I don't know if Wisconsin has the same law, but I would hope at least that impeachment hearings can begin for the democratic legislators violating their oaths of office.
You keep saying that yet fail to offer any proof other than your word. Come on now, you are a lawyer…right? Where's the evidence?...and I like pie.
Well...
My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Sebastian eat Skittles pie.
And considering the Rainbow Pony ... that's just wrong.
Yes but is't it more "green" that way? I mean he just waits a day and can make more pie.
What no Pecan??
You have a point there, Pecan is delicious pie.
1. Its not about them being overpaid State workers in Wis make 5% below public sector workers even including benefits.
2. Their Pension is fully funded and is in no jeopardy of causing budget issues (Its one of the highest rated pensions in the USA).
3. The issue is entirely over collective bargaining rights, the unions not being able to deduct dues from paychecks and instead have to collect it from individual members and the yearly recertification of a Union.
4. The Budget fix bill is a fiscal crisis created entirely by the Govenor and has nothing to do with out of control wages/benefits for public employees it has to do with him giving away 140 million dollars in tax breaks which will cost the state of Wisconsin over 3 billion dollars in the future due to losses of revenue.
5. The Budget fix bill also sells off the state run power plants with no oversight in no bid contracts to the private sector. You know no bid contracts that end up costing you the tax payer serious amounts of cash?
6. It fails the equal protection under the law clause anyway so the Unions will sue, get an injunction and it will never survive court.
With respect, I don't even think most of the protestors in Wisconsin agree with some of that. The average for a state employee is double what a private sector employee makes. Maybe they get paid 5% less than in other states, or maybe 5% less than other salary exempt workers or something, but the difference, including benefits, is $70k to $36k. And of course, the teacher really make more than that, unless they choose not to work during the summer.
Also, you're the first person to claim the retirement pension is 'fully funded'. In May 2009, the previous governor talked about a budget emergency, including the rising spectre of underfunded liabilities. The bulk of this was insurance and pension benefits for retirees. Given where the other states are, this shouldn't scome as much of a surprise. The liability is $3.6 billion, and both conservatives and liberals agree. The previous governor tried to cut a deal, and was told to figure it out by the same union. The current governor campaigned on this same issue: we can't pay the bill, we are headed in the wrong direction, and we can't raise your taxes (already among the highest in the nation). For a few years now, the choice has been raise corporate taxes (and kill jobs), fire a large number of state employees (someone here said 12k, but I had read 6k), or change the package to something the state can afford.
We complain all the freaking time when a government just does what a special interest wants it to. Here, a special interest cut a deal with the beneficiaries of their campaign donors, and the state couldn't afford it. So the new administration campaigns on it, promises to do this very thing, and wins the election, and STILL we seem to not want the special interest kicked out of the government. Baffling.
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You keep saying that yet fail to offer any proof other than your word. Come on now, you are a lawyer…right? Where's the evidence?...and I like pie.
Well...
My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Sebastian eat Skittles pie.
And considering the Rainbow Pony ... that's just wrong.
I eat the skittle filling straight from the can...
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I can't speak for anyone else, but for myself, I don't care what the political alignment is of the people skipping out of their job. I think they should work within the system they have. It is not like any thing that is passed can't later be changed or ruled unconstitutional. There is no permanency in politics.
I agree with pres man?!?!?! In a politics thread?!?!?!
One of us must have done something wrong. Based on prior interactions, I can only assume it is you.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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You keep saying that yet fail to offer any proof other than your word. Come on now, you are a lawyer…right? Where's the evidence?...and I like pie.
Well...
My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Sebastian eat Skittles pie.
And considering the Rainbow Pony ... that's just wrong.
Two ponies, one pie?
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Is there another article other than the one you linked to? Because the article doesn't say the conversation is real or that the governor admitted it was real. It mentions a call that may have been placed and recorded, and says that comments from the governor's office imply it could have been real. But even then, an attempt by the Post to look like a transcript isn't sufficient. We either have the recording, and reason to believe it wasn't modified (by adversarial forces who were willing to lie about the conversation to begin with), or we do not.
Best I can do right now.
http://www.wbay.com/Global/story.asp?S=14086370
"Walker stood by his comments on the call, saying they were no different than what he has said publicly."
Ohhh... Pappa Bear has weighed in:
http://www.mediaite.com/online/rush-limbaugh-on-scott-walker-prank-call-the res-no-news-here/
I don't think referring to them in such coarse terms is anything new or indicative of some kind of scam to screw the little guy. Not that you are, necessarily.
No worries, like I said, I'm interested in the story, but I have no skin in the game. I'm in a different country.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012
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I can't speak for anyone else, but for myself, I don't care what the political alignment is of the people skipping out of their job. I think they should work within the system they have. It is not like any thing that is passed can't later be changed or ruled unconstitutional. There is no permanency in politics.I agree with pres man?!?!?! In a politics thread?!?!?!
One of us must have done something wrong. Based on prior interactions, I can only assume it is you.
The Law of Averages says it's you Sebastian.
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Let's see. What I've learned from this thread...
Teachers are interrogated on a regular basis and the UN can't do anything about it.
You shouldn't wear tinfoil hats in the winter.
Nazis are overpaid and should have to pay for their own benefits.
Wisconsin will secede from the Union if they can get enough legislators to show up to vote.
Janitors have a hard time cleaning up Skittles.
And some guy named Beck is skillfully taking over the world.Did I miss anything?
Teachers are made of quantum. They are simultaneously under- and overpaid, until an observer opens the box!
The suppression of the Whiskey Rebellion was a clear example of the Founding Father's eternal commitment to the free market and laissez faire business climate!
The Civil War had nothing to do with state's rights!
There are videos somewhere on the interwebs that prove Obama is a Muslim!
Anything else?