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My Players wanted to know why we should bother to report when playing PFS. (We are still playing an AP so we have yet to delve down this road). I asked a similar question earlier...
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Oh, BTW what factions "won" season 0 and 1? just curious
We don't know, they eliminated that part of PFS before the results were released.
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is there a way to track how well your faction is doing at all?
As far as all are concerned, this is no longer tracked.
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Is there a way to rate your prestige in the faction vs others? (for the I'm the wo/man (or not) kind of player). Are there faction reports (How strong the nation is now after all these insights and items have been brought into their ownership or do they feel the nation is weakened from a lack of effort to bolster them from faction PF's?)that perhaps aligned venture captains get and can talk about (some sort of know check)?
Not that we're aware on any of these fronts. Faction competition was eliminated before season 1 even started, so it's a non-issue.
So all this being said. Why should anyone bother reporting? What is the point of Prestige, Factions or your reports at all? I remember reading a post from MR Frost
Joshua J. Frost, Tue, Jun 30, 2009, 05:30 PM
Reporting is a cascading effect. We need to know who's playing so that we know how many people we're hitting each month with our product so that we can track growth so that we can spend more money on the Society. The more people that play, the bigger budget we give to the Society (and potential things like player and GM rewards). We're talking about possibly simplifying the things you need to input on paizo.com, but we still need people to report their sessions.
Your question was a really good one, though, and sent me down a line of thinking that may radically (and awesomely!) change the way we calculate prestige and WHY we calculate it..
Is there a reason other than to help Paizo track it's success.. 4 star members can purchase special modules early... anything else? Do my players benefit somehow?
I am getting together with my players on Wed and was hoping to give a better answer to them than "uhhh well I think it was supposed to do this that and the other thing, but that got nerfed. Having never run anything in organized play though I don't know."
Thanks all
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I should note Joshua J Frost's post was not in response to one of my questions but came from a post in 09 regarding why people were not reporting. Most of these people (my opinion from observation) were just having difficulty with the system at the time not from a disenchantment of the system itself.
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Why should players care if you report? It's simple. The more sessions that are reported, the more resources Pathfinder Society gets from the Paizo Pie. ;-)
Essentially, the more people report, the more Paizo knows we play, the more money, people, and time get devoted to making it better. That means more scenarios by the best authors, better art, unique rewards for players and GMs, and eventually (hopefully) more than 28 scenarios per year.
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Why should players care if you report? It's simple. The more sessions that are reported, the more resources Pathfinder Society gets from the Paizo Pie. ;-)
Essentially, the more people report, the more Paizo knows we play, the more money, people, and time get devoted to making it better. That means more scenarios by the best authors, better art, unique rewards for players and GMs, and eventually (hopefully) more than 28 scenarios per year.
I understand what you have said above and OK sure but is there any influence that the players have say by playing or not playing certain factions and or scenarios ext. Could the 'world change' because of what the players as a mass or otherwise do? Is there any reason to have a Faction at all or is it there for flavour only? I think the whole thing is a great concept. I guess the 'boys' and I were wondering if there was any in game effect to reporting anymore. Is it a living world shaped in part by what politics the Factions (and thus players) impart and so on or is it a preconstructed AP like any other just broken into less interconnected fragments, thus (hopefully) more 'real world' chaos and less of a lifetime 1-20lev quest for whatever..
I am not trying to be difficult here (I'm sure I probably am). And I appreciate what it can do to effect Pathfinder product programming; I also understand that my players might care about these possible changes, but actually I doubt they will loose any sleep over it either way. If there is little tangible reaction to reporting they won't care about reports. In my region there are no Cons or anything so we won't be playing in events needing an approved character. We will play at home, and thus are unsure if reporting matters to us.
rewards to the players GM's might change this but universal feedback like what was entertained in season 0 would probably have a larger effect since it has in game implications
Thanks again for any input provided
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I am not trying to be difficult here (I'm sure I probably am). And I appreciate what it can do to effect Pathfinder product programming; I also understand that my players might care about these possible changes, but actually I doubt they will loose any sleep over it either way. If there is little tangible reaction to reporting they won't care about reports. In my region there are no Cons or anything so we won't be playing in events needing an approved character. We will play at home, and thus are unsure if reporting matters to us.
I wish I could give you the answer you want. (Yes, of course every choice you make helps shape the future of the game world!) But there is, as of yet, no such direct impact for player reported data. One can assume and infer that the reported data has shaped and will continue to shape the future of the campaign. However, the kinds of motivations you are talking about here generally degenerate into rules redlining of the no-PVP rule which is something most everyone is happy to avoid. So are you better off playing your unsanctioned, unreported home game? Only you guys can decided that.
On the flip side though, if you did find yourself in a situation where you could play in sanctioned events would you rather do it with the characters you've been playing already in your home area, or would you rather play them as level 1 n00bs? It's a choice you can't really reverse if you find that suddenly it does matter for some reason.
I'm curious though if you are wrapping up an AP and curious/interested in PFS play shouldn't you go for the full experience? Otherwise why not just pick up the next AP and go that route?
EDIT: Also the reporting is no additional work or requirement of the players only the GM. So to me, if they honestly care that little it doesn't matter since they have to take no additional action. You as the GM may care about GM Star potential, or knowing that you are helping our Paizo Overlords understand the make up of this Organized Play system.
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As Hyrum has stated a few times recently, they are working on both player and GM rewards and that factions will have a large impact in season three. Best to start reporting now. Perhaps the GM rewards will be tiered by how many sessions you have reported. or maybe the players rewards will be tied to how many session you have participated in. Who knows.
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there is, as of yet, no such direct impact for player reported data. One can assume and infer that the reported data has shaped and will continue to shape the future of the campaign. However, the kinds of motivations you are talking about here generally degenerate into rules redlining of the no-PVP rule which is something most everyone is happy to avoid.
Actually my players are not so interested in the PvP style of play but had thought from reading the season PFS guidebook that they would (due to faction action) have more direct impact. You answer this for us as has been done earlier of which I am thankful.
On the flip side though, if you did find yourself in a situation where you could play in sanctioned events would you rather do it with the characters you've been playing already in your home area, or would you rather play them as level 1 n00bs? It's a choice you can't really reverse if you find that suddenly it does matter for some reason.
Quite true, although thus far this has not come even close to passing unless I wanted to travel to Seattle. I live on Vancouver Island (not the same as Vancouver) and so travel would be costly.
I'm curious though if you are wrapping up an AP and curious/interested in PFS play shouldn't you go for the full experience? Otherwise why not just pick up the next AP and go that route?
Here is a piece of truth. I am the motivating factor to try the PFS, my players really don't care either way. I tend to purchase the AP's and so on and tend not to do things on a surface level. Soooo I would likely purchase the Factions Guide, Guide to Absalom, and The Pathfinder Society book ditty. I understand how my players are motivated and know that they like(d) the idea of having in world effects (re Factions) and getting feedback on how these political groups are changing due to the PFS influence. Without this type of feedback I am unsure if they will buy in.
Therefore I will probably end up purchasing another AP (They are really well done, and I am supper happy with them so I realy have no complaints).I'm not going to give up yet on PFS with my players and I really do appreciate the honest answers to my questions. I think it's a really great concept. I will perhaps run a few of the 3.99 modules with the boys and who knows. However, I will now do this before purchasing all the paraphernalia which might make for a PFS light experience but we will see.
Thank You again
Oh and Happy 'Presidents Day'?
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i feel like its kind of like asking why should i vote, only far less important to the welfare of our nationWhich is the less important, the voting or the reporting? :0
Depends on where you live. Where I live it's 85% republican. As an independent, does my vote really count for the local elections? That's assuming, of course, that there's more than one candidate, which there often isn't.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 4
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Also, reporting sessions is what determines when your region gets a Venture-Captain. A variety of benefits can come from having a Venture-Captain in the area.Frankly, if one of those benefits isn't pie, I'm not interested.
What about cake?
Though I wasn't a VC at the time.
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Let me give you what I tell my local players.
The more we report, the more Paizo knows people play the game. The more people play, the more money they put into the campaign (through art, adventures, special events).
More Reporting = More Play = More Game Opportunity = *You* get to play more.
It's not a lot to ask and the system is very easy to use...
JP
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Let me give you what I tell my local players.
The more we report, the more Paizo knows people play the game. The more people play, the more money they put into the campaign (through art, adventures, special events).
More Reporting = More Play = More Game Opportunity = *You* get to play more.
It's not a lot to ask and the system is very easy to use...
JP
...says the guy who hasn't reported Sunday's Ghengis Con games, yet.
<shakes fist> "You're withholding my second star, man! Get crackin'!"
As others have said, the more you report, the more we know about who's playing and how often. It gets us more resources so we can provide you guys better scenarios and a better program.
Reporting will also let us know how the Shadow War is going and what's going on with the factions. We're already introducing some changes and you should see those as Season 2 winds up.
Starting in Season 3 we're going to be making factions a larger part of PFS and actively tracking how they're doing over the course of the Season.
We're also working on a more direct form of player and GM reward that we're hoping to debut at PaizoCon and then roll into full release at Gen Con. We'll be working with the Venture Captains and retailers to get rewards into your hands as well.
Hyrum.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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We'll be working with the retailers to get rewards into your hands as well.
Hyrum.
Wha...?
I would love to involve my store in this kind of thing. If you need advice or ideas, please feel free to contact me. For an email address or phone number, go here.
Hopefully that shameless plug to involve myself came across as professional and courteous...
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Hopefully that shameless plug to involve myself came across as professional and courteous...
I know you! You can't lie to me!
*Runs off to snitch to Hyrum*
Seriously retailer rewards are a GREAT idea... I can't wait to pass on details to (most) of my local shops (since Drogon/Jeff already knows).
JP
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Seriously retailer rewards are a GREAT idea... I can't wait to pass on details to (most) of my local shops (since Drogon/Jeff already knows).JP
We'll be working with the Venture Captains and retailers to get rewards into your hands as well.
double read what he wrote .. I don't think he's talking about rewards for the retailers.. but assistance from retaliers in getting rewards to the players.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Seriously retailer rewards are a GREAT idea... I can't wait to pass on details to (most) of my local shops (since Drogon/Jeff already knows).JP
double read what he wrote .. I don't think he's talking about rewards for the retailers.. but assistance from retaliers in getting rewards to the players.We'll be working with the Venture Captains and retailers to get rewards into your hands as well.
I saw that, Thea, and I wouldn't expect it any other way. I work with a lot of vendors that provide player rewards through store events. I'd love to be involved in getting one going for Paizo. JP, consider the buzz started.
As for retailer rewards, I have access to all the goodies I could ever want for a very reasonable price. I'm happy.
Director of Brand Strategy
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As we've mentioned in a few places, once we launch our player/GM rewards program, we'll be allocating resources based on where we see the most activity. So a store or region with a very active PFS scene but without any reporting wouldn't get these benefits. Really, there's no reason not to report. And it's really not up to the players anyway. Whether they see the value in it or not, the GM or event coordinator can always report despite an individual player's objections.
Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
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As others have said, the more you report, the more we know about who's playing and how often. It gets us more resources so we can provide you guys better scenarios and a better program.
Reporting will also let us know how the Shadow War is going and what's going on with the factions. We're already introducing some changes and you should see those as Season 2 winds up.
Starting in Season 3 we're going to be making factions a larger part of PFS and actively tracking how they're doing over the course of the Season.
We're also working on a more direct form of player and GM reward that we're hoping to debut at PaizoCon and then roll into full release at Gen Con. We'll be working with the Venture Captains and retailers to get rewards into your hands as well.
Hyrum.
Best news I've heard all week (even though its just Tuesday!)
One of the things I remember form running the Green Regent FR stuff for WotC was the Spell Template handouts and minis for adventures that were given to GMs as a reward for their time and effort, or handed out to players for their participation. It was a tangible reward that you could leave an event with, and helped bring in players and volunteers, at least at our old FLGS. While I know Paizo has said they are not interested in producing a miniatures line at this time, other similar rewards would definitely be a draw on either side of the screen. Even the collecting the Campaign cards gave the feel of a reward. All the more reason for PF tokens!
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Best news I've heard all week (even though its just Tuesday!)
One of the things I remember form running the Green Regent FR stuff for WotC was the Spell Template handouts and minis for adventures that were given to GMs as a reward for their time and effort, or handed out to players for their participation. It was a tangible reward that you could leave an event with, and helped bring in players and volunteers, at least at our old FLGS. While I know Paizo has said they are not interested in producing a miniatures line at this time, other similar rewards would definitely be a draw on either side of the screen. Even the collecting the Campaign cards gave the feel of a reward. All the more reason for PF tokens!
The NERPS cards from Shadowrun Missions were similar in scope. It was a lot of fun to play in multiple games and try to collect some of the more interesting ones. I can think of a fair number of cheap and fun "rewards" for players.
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Does this mean we're going back to the idea that we might see some Factions "win" or "lose" in the overall chess game?As others have said, the more you report, the more we know about who's playing and how often. It gets us more resources so we can provide you guys better scenarios and a better program.
Reporting will also let us know how the Shadow War is going and what's going on with the factions. We're already introducing some changes and you should see those as Season 2 winds up.
Or maybe even new factions introduced as old ones die off?
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Or maybe even new factions introduced as old ones die off?
While I might have mixed feelings about adding new factions, I am definitely NOT in favor of eliminating existing ones. There are a lot of players out there that have build their character around a particular faction and would be upset if they no longer had access to it. I do not expect Hyrum/Mark to move in this direction.
However, it might be interesting to see a new faction crop up during season three. Not sure what that would be, but I like the idea. Please not the Shadow Lodge, though. I don't like the idea of PFS players working against the society. And let's face it, because it would be the new, "cool" thing to do, the exodus would be historic. The volume of new recruits would unbalance PFS. I'm not sure how you could have SL faction missions without having PvP. That would not be healthy for the community.
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I'm not sure how you could have SL faction missions without having PvP. That would not be healthy for the community.
To a lesser extent this is kind of the inherent problem with having 'season faction winners.' Players are going to do everything they can within the rules, right up to the redline, in order to ensure their faction is victorious. Not exactly 'Explore, report, cooperate.'
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There is always the unsanctioned Faction - The 'Gen. Goldfrapp the Naked Taldoran Trebuchet' Army for Taldor in Abasalom faction. Reporting seems to be a bit slow as of late. Please tell your GM that you are a member of the 'Gen. Goldfrapp's Taldoran Trebuchet Army for Taldor in Abasalom Faction' so that you give proper credit. Plus, if you don't you'll have a naked Halfling General looking for you.
The biggest issue I have with Factions is that they're supposedly not supported by the Society, and are to be secret. However, often one player needs another non-faction member to help out with a mission. I've even helped those damn cockroaches succeed (although, to be un-fair, it was Venture-Captain JP). Having a t-shirt (of any faction) is supposed to help too. But in all - who provides these faction missions? If the society frowns upon them, it's not the Venture-Captain. In one, a faction has to complete the mission while in the VC's office. So that means they have to be handed out prior to even going to the VC's office. So far there is no story as to how you get them. I do however on occasion, put in some back story and say that a 'slip' approaches the Cheilax faction and offers some excuse as to why a 'slip' would be bothering such a fine citizen of the Law.
Long Live the General.
Theocrat Issak
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Due to the difficulty of retconning past scenarios to incorporate a new faction, I doubt they will add one.
Most likely they will add a new system that would not require scenario re writes, Maybe something like certain factions have allied with the Shadowlodge or You can decide if you allied with the Shadowlodge, and PA would set up a "Leader" system for those for and against the Shadowlodge, with getting certain in/out of game perks based on which side is leading.
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As others have said, the more you report, the more we know about who's playing and how often. It gets us more resources so we can provide you guys better scenarios and a better program.
First off I am happy that factions will become a larger part of PFS. Secondly I have been asked why I would consider PFS instead of simply picking up a new AP. Many of my players are shift workers thus the group fluctuates in size; running a PFS style game allows for some continuity while still allowing players to port in and out. Secondly sometimes I like to take of the GM hat and play too (my players would prefer I GM so that they could play (not confident in their GM skills).
Well I called a few players about this post and it's responses. One of them put the reporting this way (I understand that generally it would be me doing the reporting).
"It is kind of like going to the supermarket and getting asked to fill out info for a shoppers card. In this case you use the card when your done your experience/shopping and the store learns about you as a customer. This might improve your future visits to the store, however, most stores give their customers special savings for using the card (helping them become a better store), points or some other incentive otherwise no one would sign up."
So are there "points/incentives," no not right now, however....
Reporting will also let us know how the Shadow War is going and what's going on with the factions. We're already introducing some changes and you should see those as Season 2 winds up.
Starting in Season 3 we're going to be making factions a larger part of PFS and actively tracking how they're doing over the course of the Season.
We're also working on a more direct form of player and GM reward that we're hoping to debut at PaizoCon and then roll into full release at Gen Con. We'll be working with the Venture Captains and retailers to get rewards into your hands as well.
Hyrum.
More faction, reaction and or rewards could bolster incentive for sure. I am a little skeptical on the wording here, will you need to play in Cons or at games offered at retailers local's to possibly receive rewards? If so were not going to get them in most places here in Canada. Gaming is not done (often)in stores (I have never witnessed it) and Con's do not seem commonplace at all (never seen one even offer Pathfinder as an option to play).
Finally, if your tracking faction info now why not make it public?
TwilightKnight wrote:
I'm not sure how you could have SL faction missions without having PvP. That would not be healthy for the community.
To a lesser extent this is kind of the inherent problem with having 'season faction winners.' Players are going to do everything they can within the rules, right up to the redline, in order to ensure their faction is victorious. Not exactly 'Explore, report, cooperate.'
I know there is worry about PvP but really this is part of the GM's job. Player A acted in such a way that he/she impeded or did not cooperate with player B thus that character is now banned from PFS play. Ohhhh, I doubt my players would try the PvP rout again if they knew that was a possibility to their actions.
Again I really appreciate the openness of this forum and all the comments that have been given. I will repeat here I think PFS is a great idea, and I will try it with my players, I will even report these mods as I go through them (for now).
Thanks all.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Does this mean we're going back to the idea that we might see some Factions "win" or "lose" in the overall chess game?
It won't be a zero-sum game. Each faction will have its own storyline both publicly and behind the scenes. We'll be looking at what specific missions particular factions succeed on over the course of play to determine how these play out over the course of the season and beyond. Some of this has already begun, in fact, and "winning" factions are going to be rewarded, while "losing" factions will see things shaken up a bit.
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I am a little skeptical on the wording here, will you need to play in Cons or at games offered at retailers local's to possibly receive rewards? If so were not going to get them in most places here in Canada. Gaming is not done (often)in stores (I have never witnessed it) and Con's do not seem commonplace at all (never seen one even offer Pathfinder as an option to play).
Where in Canada, Fatouzcat? There's a thread on Canadian Org Play with some good ideas on how to kick-start this...
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Tangent: When I GM a table of experienced PFS players, I ask them (a) what their day jobs are, and (b) how their factions contact them with assignments. I offer some possibilities: like they find theirs between pages of an obscure book in the Society library; or they regularly buy bagettes, and sometimes there's a faction mission baked into the loaf.
Prompted thus, some players come up with great mission-drop mechanics. The Taldan agent who receives his missions from copper coins with magic mouth was inspired.
I, too, have had to finagle when the mission needs to be received before the Venture Captain's briefing.
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I am a little skeptical on the wording here, will you need to play in Cons or at games offered at retailers local's to possibly receive rewards? If so were not going to get them in most places here in Canada. Gaming is not done (often)in stores (I have never witnessed it) and Con's do not seem commonplace at all (never seen one even offer Pathfinder as an option to play).Where in Canada, Fatouzcat? There's a thread on Canadian Org Play with some good ideas on how to kick-start this...
I'm in Courtenay on Vancouver Island. I will have a look at the thread. Thx
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Tangent: When I GM a table of experienced PFS players, I ask them (a) what their day jobs are, and (b) how their factions contact them with assignments. I offer some possibilities: like they find theirs between pages of an obscure book in the Society library; or they regularly buy bagettes, and sometimes there's a faction mission baked into the loaf.
Prompted thus, some players come up with great mission-drop mechanics. The Taldan agent who receives his missions from copper coins with magic mouth was inspired.
I, too, have had to finagle when the mission needs to be received before the Venture Captain's briefing.
I like this very slick. I will probably follow through with a similar mechanic
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Does this mean we're going back to the idea that we might see some Factions "win" or "lose" in the overall chess game?It won't be a zero-sum game. Each faction will have its own storyline both publicly and behind the scenes. We'll be looking at what specific missions particular factions succeed on over the course of play to determine how these play out over the course of the season and beyond. Some of this has already begun, in fact, and "winning" factions are going to be rewarded, while "losing" factions will see things shaken up a bit.
Excellent this makes a lot of sense to me. I am looking forward to how it shapes up.
