Oh wow, I'd completely forgotten about the Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium. I probably got more use out of those two books than any books ever released for 3.5, including the PHB.
I'm still looking for a copy of the Magic Item Compendium. Anyone have one they'd like to get rid of? :P
Oh wow, I'd completely forgotten about the Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium. I probably got more use out of those two books than any books ever released for 3.5, including the PHB.
The Spell Compendium has some game breaking options in it, but also some really neat spells that can address rules issues that disrupt your group's playstyle. There are also some nicely-flavored spells in it - I still want to make a rainbow-themed sorcerer someday, if I could convince a GM to allow it. I still keep my Spell Compendium in my print collection for when I need a little inspiration, especially if building casters or adding alternative flavor to an existing villain or monster.
SIDE NOTE: We have no White Castles in North Carolina outside of the grocery store's freezer section. The one time I ever tried them from an actual restaurant was in New York City a few months back. They made me sick to my stomach, and tasted far worse than the freezer variation. I hope that location isn't representative of them.
OTOH, we do have Sonic Drive-Thru here - the only fast food chain where I've ever had a worker yell a geek insult at me as I pulled off after seeing some D&D books in my backseat: "Call of Cthulhu is way better!"
Ommm...
Motorcycle ashtray, teats on a bull, and this thread...
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White Castles is ok... it is dirt cheap though. You go you eat it and you say... "meh that was ok for the price" ... then weeks, months later you get a craving... I have no idea why. But you do, then you badly want some... then you eat them and wonder why you had the craving. Pretty much everyone I know is that way. I think they put crack in them.
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I'm still looking for a copy of the Magic Item Compendium. Anyone have one they'd like to get rid of? :P
I'm afraid you're going to have to do it the old fashioned way.
Break into our homes, murder us, and take it as a trophy. ;)
I know I won't give it up without a fight.
Also, I <3 Shadowcaster concept, despise the execution.
Uh-oh. Now other posts are ghosting. Mr. PostMonster General, we have a problem.
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White Castles is ok... it is dirt cheap though. You go you eat it and you say... "meh that was ok for the price" ... then weeks, months later you get a craving... I have no idea why. But you do, then you badly want some... then you eat them and wonder why you had the craving. Pretty much everyone I know is that way. I think they put crack in them.
It's not weeks or months for me, it's hours. GIMME GIMME GIMME!
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I'm still looking for a copy of the Magic Item Compendium. Anyone have one they'd like to get rid of? :PI'm afraid you're going to have to do it the old fashioned way.\
Break into our homes, murder us, and take it as a trophy.
I know I won't give it up without a fight.
Also, I <3 Shadowcaster concept, despise the execution.
I agree about the Shadowcaster, well in that I loved the concept and wasn't a fan of it's execution. I didn't despise it, but I would have rather it been a normal wizard specialist.
I keep hoping a 3pp will use it for inspiration and make their own version.
So how exactly can you say that these books are of high quality as anything other than stating your opinion? What facts can you point to that say there were?
I can't point to facts regarding their quality, because the idea of quality is insanely hard to operationalize. I can say that, in my opinion, these were some of the best books released for the system, and that, particularly for Bo9S, people are calling something a drop in quality when it's far more precise to say that they just didn't like the design.
I ran multiple campaigns featuring characters using Bo9S, and in my wave-goodbye-to-3.5 gestalt campaign, I used the Binder class heavily to gestaltify monsters and NPCs.
As for where all the people who liked Bo9S and its design are, a lot of them are enjoying 4e. :)
Oh wow, I'd completely forgotten about the Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium. I probably got more use out of those two books than any books ever released for 3.5, including the PHB.I'm still looking for a copy of the Magic Item Compendium. Anyone have one they'd like to get rid of? :P
The club has one (I'm fairly certain of this, as it's my old copy). I'm sure you could pop in and check it out if you pay dues.
As for where all the people who liked Bo9S and its design are, a lot of them are enjoying 4e. :)LOL...
There's the qualifying statement...
The majority of those that I know who do not like the book also have a distaste for 4e...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
Yeah, the whole Martial Characters Can't Have Nice Things school of thought is alive and kicking, still.
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Yeah, the whole Martial Characters Can't Have Nice Things school of thought is alive and kicking, still.As for where all the people who liked Bo9S and its design are, a lot of them are enjoying 4e. :)LOL...
There's the qualifying statement...
The majority of those that I know who do not like the book also have a distaste for 4e...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
Thank you sir, let me turn the other cheek for you.
I'm still looking for a copy of the Magic Item Compendium. Anyone have one they'd like to get rid of? :PThe club has one (I'm fairly certain of this, as it's my old copy). I'm sure you could pop in and check it out if you pay dues.
That doesn't add it to my collection! I'd like a copy I can keep ad infinitum. We'd use it weekly for my game.
That doesn't add it to my collection! I'd like a copy I can keep ad infinitum. We'd use it weekly for my game.I'm still looking for a copy of the Magic Item Compendium. Anyone have one they'd like to get rid of? :PThe club has one (I'm fairly certain of this, as it's my old copy). I'm sure you could pop in and check it out if you pay dues.
Sorry, I don't have a spare. Looks like on ebay and Amazon and everywhere else I've looked they're going for $55+. Guess they're popular everywhere.
Yeah, the whole Martial Characters Can't Have Nice Things school of thought is alive and kicking, still.
Here we go again...
Questions of WotC Quality are beside the point. The Quality of 3PP are also beside the point. The majority of role-players don't spend that much time on the internet learning about specialty products. It doesn't matter how good a 3PP if stores aren't stocking them. Unless a store manager really knows his stuff, he's primarily going to buy support products from the parent company. True, a good store manager will spend time doing research. But I suspect not enough stores spend that much time researching RPGs. Especially when the mainstay of the store's income is likely coming from comics or trading cards or model trains. If you can manage to dig up sales numbers for 3PP (from either the 3E era or the Pathfinder era), you'll be amazed at how dismal they look. Rite Publishing is fairly happy with their 101 spells PDF line, and that's with ~100 copies per PDF [numbers I pulled from a July post, they may have improved since then]. And that's with some good blog posts about them by Paizo.
Scott: The GSL (and the d20 license before it) already came with built in advertising for D&D. They require a specific logo placed several places on the product. I'm not certain if a 3PP would be allowed to reference works beyond those referenced in the SRD. Which was last updated Feb, 2009 and doesn't include things like Martial Power or PHB3. I do think WotC needs to build a better relationship with 3PP, because more support for their game means more customers all around. Monte Cook put out a "Best of d20" book that collected some of the best open content for a particular year. It would be awesome if Wizards did something like that, but more official. At the very least a mention in one of the public web columns every once in a while would go a long way.
That doesn't add it to my collection! I'd like a copy I can keep ad infinitum. We'd use it weekly for my game.It can be obtained, but it'll cost ya!
I know, I'm kicking myself that I didn't pick up a copy just before/after 4E was released and it was still findable for ~$30. I'm sure someday I'll bite the bullet.
That doesn't add it to my collection! I'd like a copy I can keep ad infinitum. We'd use it weekly for my game.I'm still looking for a copy of the Magic Item Compendium. Anyone have one they'd like to get rid of? :PThe club has one (I'm fairly certain of this, as it's my old copy). I'm sure you could pop in and check it out if you pay dues.
Maybe offer to buy it off them? I'm not sure whether they'd allow it, but it might be worth a shot. I don't know if it's seeing any use or not.
Yeah, the whole Martial Characters Can't Have Nice Things school of thought is alive and kicking, still.Where did I say or imply that? Can no one dislike 4e (or Bo9S) without some kind of ulterior motive?
No, that was just snark on my part. "Martial Characters Can't Have Nice Things" was a pretty common theme/retort during the discussions over Bo9S back in the day.
Sorry, I don't have a spare. Looks like on ebay and Amazon and everywhere else I've looked they're going for $55+. Guess they're popular everywhere.
That's just mad!
Well, should I ever need money... Until then I can't get myself to sell rulebooks.
The only thing I'd part with would be all the FR novels I have.
And to think it could be so easy to get PDF versions or maybe print-on-demand stuff for these books.
SIDE NOTE: We have no White Castles in North Carolina outside of the grocery store's freezer section. The one time I ever tried them from an actual restaurant was in New York City a few months back. They made me sick to my stomach, and tasted far worse than the freezer variation. I hope that location isn't representative of them.
OTOH, we do have Sonic Drive-Thru here - the only fast food chain where I've ever had a worker yell a geek insult at me as I pulled off after seeing some D&D books in my backseat: "Call of Cthulhu is way better!"
Krystal's is the southern states White Castle.
Just curious what part of NC? Cause you could opt for Parker's, Bills or any of the numerous eastern NC pulled pork BBQ joints.
\been almost a decade since I've had NC BBQ. Ohh how I Miss it.
Now Dark Mistress are you comparing the addictive quality of White Castle to the cocaine laced chicken of Chick-fil-a?
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SIDE NOTE: We have no White Castles in North Carolina outside of the grocery store's freezer section. The one time I ever tried them from an actual restaurant was in New York City a few months back. They made me sick to my stomach, and tasted far worse than the freezer variation. I hope that location isn't representative of them.
OTOH, we do have Sonic Drive-Thru here - the only fast food chain where I've ever had a worker yell a geek insult at me as I pulled off after seeing some D&D books in my backseat: "Call of Cthulhu is way better!"
Krystal's is the southern states White Castle.
Just curious what part of NC? Cause you could opt for Parker's, Bills or any of the numerous eastern NC pulled pork BBQ joints.
\been almost a decade since I've had NC BBQ. Ohh how I Miss it.
Now Dark Mistress are you comparing the addictive quality of White Castle to the cocaine laced chicken of Chick-fil-a?
Never heard of the second one, but maybe. I have no idea why I get cravings for White Castles sometimes. i don't really like it, but I do crave it now and again.
No, that was just snark on my part. "Martial Characters Can't Have Nice Things" was a pretty common theme/retort during the discussions over Bo9S back in the day.
Well, it was a pretty stupid theme/retort then as it is now. Martial characters have plenty of nice things, they just weren't the same things as spellcasters got or, apparently, what people who made that stupid retort wanted. They were just too snarky to express it in a constructive manner.
Oh wow, I'd completely forgotten about the Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium. I probably got more use out of those two books than any books ever released for 3.5, including the PHB.
I very much came to regret unrestricted use of the Spell Compendium. Clerics, in particular, didn't need the substantial power-up it offered. If I were to add it to a game again, I would most certainly ration its use.
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I very much came to regret unrestricted use of the Spell Compendium. Clerics, in particular, didn't need the substantial power-up it offered. If I were to add it to a game again, I would most certainly ration its use.
Oh wow, I'd completely forgotten about the Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium. I probably got more use out of those two books than any books ever released for 3.5, including the PHB.
Same here. I always kept the policy "ask first to see if it fits" when I GMed games regardless of what we played. That policy worked out tremendously when SC and MIC released.
Well, it was a pretty stupid theme/retort then as it is now. Martial characters have plenty of nice things, they just weren't the same things as spellcasters got or, apparently, what people who made that stupid retort wanted. They were just too snarky to express it in a constructive manner.
No, that was just snark on my part. "Martial Characters Can't Have Nice Things" was a pretty common theme/retort during the discussions over Bo9S back in the day.
I think it was a pretty salient argument (when expanded upon), and it was that very argument that (among other things, perhaps) led to the expansion of martial classes' utility in Pathfinder.
WotC put out some of the best 3e material during the last couple years of its life cycle (Bo9S, Tome of Magic, MMV). So, no. The last years of 3e didn't prove anything except that opinions on quality differ.I wanted to comment, I'm not sure if Bo9S and ToM were 'best material' (and I don't recognize MMV. Monster Manual 5?)
They were experimental material (pushing the mechanics to/beyond a breaking point) but 'good' is in the eye of the beholder.
I'm going to go with Tyrants of the Nine Hells and Hordes of the Abyss as two phenomenal late 3.5 books. Heck I still keep them on the shelf beside all my 4E stuff.
My heart sank when the Magic Items Compendium was released, and Dungeon Grrrl put her finger on the reasons why as soon as she read through it. She wrote that there were pages and pages of nothing but combat bonuses after comba bonuses, while whimsical, magical items, like feather tokens or immovable rods or submersible apparati, were nowhere to be seen.
I liked the Magic Item Compendium when it came out because I felt that it helped the hard pressed DM far more then the players. That said I liked it as a weapon in an escalating war of oneupmanship between myself, as the DM, and my players and not necessarily as a book in and of itself.
Krystal's is the southern states White Castle.Just curious what part of NC? Cause you could opt for Parker's, Bills or any of the numerous eastern NC pulled pork BBQ joints.
\been almost a decade since I've had NC BBQ. Ohh how I Miss it.
Now Dark Mistress are you comparing the addictive quality of White Castle to the cocaine laced chicken of Chick-fil-a?
Parker's Barbecue in Wilson is awesome - especially the cornsticks and Brunswick stew. Bill's, not so much - I went to high school in that area, and Bill's got shut down numerous times in the late 1990s for a host of bad health code violations, so I'm wary of that one.
For chain BBQ, though, my preference is Smithfield's. White Swan has a bit too much gristle and fat in it for my tastes, plus their seasoning is kind of bland.
Currently I live in the Raleigh area, and I haven't seen a Krystal burger in years - I think there used to be one somewhere in Garner, but it's long gone.
I like Chick-fil-a a lot as well, but have made a conscious effort not to eat there since their contributions to anti-GBLT groups came to light. Which is sad, because their sandwiches RAWK. Luckily, I've also figured out how to duplicate the flavor at home - marinate your chicken in dill pickle brine before breading and frying, and use panko breading.
I'm going to go with Tyrants of the Nine Hells and Hordes of the Abyss as two phenomenal late 3.5 books. Heck I still keep them on the shelf beside all my 4E stuff.
+1 on that. Those books are both great reads and useful game supplements - for characters who worship infernal and abyssal powers as well as GMs seeking nasty things to throw at parties.
I like Chick-fil-a a lot as well, but have made a conscious effort not to eat there since their contributions to anti-GBLT groups came to light. Which is sad, because their sandwiches RAWK. Luckily, I've also figured out how to duplicate the flavor at home - marinate your chicken in dill pickle brine before breading and frying, and use panko breading.
Chick-fil-a GLBT tanget:
Even with that the craving for "cocaine chicken" hits hard at times.I will try the dill pickle marinate though, thanks.
I like Chick-fil-a a lot as well, but have made a conscious effort not to eat there since their contributions to anti-GBLT groups came to light.
I just ate there last week. Now I feel dirty.
does not understand why anyone would ever soil themselves with crap-fil-a, when they could have the world's best fast food fried chicken - Popeyes!
+1
I tried Chick-fil-a while out east on a business trip a few years ago, and could not think of a redeeming quality to the too small, overly dry chicken sandwich I was served.
Got my Castle Ravenloft game and we played a quest last night. I believe everyone had a good time, though we did fail the mission (ran out of healing surges). I can definitely see the 4th edition mechanics influence in the game, and I can see how it could be an introduction to that edition.
Anyway, still sticking with 3.5, but thanks WotC for a cool board game and I'm sure I'll find uses for the tiles and miniatures in my normal game.
Response to off-topic discussion:
Monster Manuals? Keep them coming. Of course, I might be biased, having pre-ordered the Tome of Horrors Complete (Pathfinder Version).
Paizo: Please keep the Bestiaries coming till we shout stop!
But wasn't MMV the one where they wasted a lot of time doing monsters with class levels ...
Whoa!
Thank you KaeYoss for letting me know the pre-ordering had started for Tome of Horrors. The Frog God Games news page I'd been watching didn't state it clearly enough for me to realize it had started.
And yeah, while I like the Monster Manual V, there was a lot of that "monsters with class levels" malarkey in it.
As for Book of Nine Swords, overall I like it - with a few notable exceptions for things that were so broken that I'm sorry I ever allowed them in my campaign - for example, take Iron Heart Surge. Really, take it out back and shoot it in the head. I now have a druid (who's already immune to poison and everything else in the universe), who can wild shape into virtually anything, and on the rare occasions where someone does get an effect off on her, it never lasts more than one round before she Iron Heart Surges it away. To make it at least sane I made one of my few house rulings and overruled the WoTC ruling that it ended the effect and instead ruled that it ended the effect's effect on the character. Even so, it's one of those "they really should have thought about this more" sort of things.
Response to off-topic discussion:
** spoiler omitted **
This, exactly.
Whoa!Thank you KaeYoss for letting me know the pre-ordering had started for Tome of Horrors.
You should still be in time for the 10 dollar discount.
You should still be in time for the 10 dollar discount.
Whoa!Thank you KaeYoss for letting me know the pre-ordering had started for Tome of Horrors.
Yep, I was!
Also, I <3 Shadowcaster concept, despise the execution.
Same here. I was really excited to see the Shadowcaster in ToM, it was the reason I bought that book in the first place. I had read a FR series where one of the main characters was a Shadowcaster, and finally seeing the class printed out and playable was exciting.
Then I actually rolled one up. Yikes.
In my opinion, I think by the time this book came out, WotC was trying to reign in some of the power creep from previous books, because they went crazy with the nerf-bat all over this class. I got the impression they were really onto something strong and playable, but got scared at the last second and softened everything... I mean everything. I've played NPC commoners who were more threatening than this class.
The Shadowcaster has some amazing flavor, especially for one-shot NPC villains, but for long-term campaigns this class just falls short. I've seen numerous attempts, even by the original author, to fix this class and just make it playable in comparison to other, normal classes. I mean really, it's magic is so niche, and they made it MAD(multi-attribute dependent)? That was just a proverbial kick in the groin.
Got my Castle Ravenloft game and we played a quest last night. I believe everyone had a good time, though we did fail the mission (ran out of healing surges). I can definitely see the 4th edition mechanics influence in the game, and I can see how it could be an introduction to that edition.
Anyway, still sticking with 3.5, but thanks WotC for a cool board game and I'm sure I'll find uses for the tiles and miniatures in my normal game.
** spoiler omitted **
I've been really curious to check this board game out. I'm a huge Ravenloft fan, have almost the complete 3e collection minus one 2 books(Legacy of Blood and the Terrifying Tales book). The campaign depth is great, but sometimes I want to just run something like a one-night romp through the haunted castle, ya know?