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I don't want to be a downer, but next year is literally called "2020 won".

It won my pants.


I feel like 2020 won the brawl. I'm not leaving this year feeling like I won for sure. Also it appears to have taken your cloths with it.


Very_Simple_Commoner wrote:
... Wait do I have that template?

No, you have the advanced Simple template.


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My dentist asks the stupidest questions. Like "When was the last time you flossed?" I'm thinking "You should know, you were there."


gran rey de los mono wrote:
Very_Simple_Commoner wrote:
... Wait do I have that template?
No, you have the advanced Simple template.

And to think my teachers said I would never advance at anything.


gran rey de los mono wrote:
My dentist asks the stupidest questions. Like "When was the last time you flossed?" I'm thinking "You should know, you were there."

And that is the honest Tooth.


In order to help raise morale, Missy Elliot has started giving out ice cream. She calls it "Get your free cone".


I put my root beer in a square glass. Now it's just beer.


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Celestial Healer wrote:
*sigh* My PCs continue to cakewalk through book 5 of Strange Aeons. I find myself wishing that Paizo APs had suggestions along the lines of “to make this encounter tougher, add X.” Fiddling with encounters to make proper challenges for a group of experienced players is more than I signed up for.

You did kill me once. So that was nice for you.


Treppa wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:
*sigh* My PCs continue to cakewalk through book 5 of Strange Aeons. I find myself wishing that Paizo APs had suggestions along the lines of “to make this encounter tougher, add X.” Fiddling with encounters to make proper challenges for a group of experienced players is more than I signed up for.
You did kill me once. So that was nice for you.

Sounds like you could have used a template.


gran rey de los mono wrote:
Treppa wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:
*sigh* My PCs continue to cakewalk through book 5 of Strange Aeons. I find myself wishing that Paizo APs had suggestions along the lines of “to make this encounter tougher, add X.” Fiddling with encounters to make proper challenges for a group of experienced players is more than I signed up for.
You did kill me once. So that was nice for you.
Sounds like you could have used a template.

Why not a templar?


In character Vidmaster7 wrote:
gran rey de los mono wrote:
Treppa wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:
*sigh* My PCs continue to cakewalk through book 5 of Strange Aeons. I find myself wishing that Paizo APs had suggestions along the lines of “to make this encounter tougher, add X.” Fiddling with encounters to make proper challenges for a group of experienced players is more than I signed up for.
You did kill me once. So that was nice for you.
Sounds like you could have used a template.
Why not a templar?

In there are templar template?


gran rey de los mono wrote:
In character Vidmaster7 wrote:
gran rey de los mono wrote:
Treppa wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:
*sigh* My PCs continue to cakewalk through book 5 of Strange Aeons. I find myself wishing that Paizo APs had suggestions along the lines of “to make this encounter tougher, add X.” Fiddling with encounters to make proper challenges for a group of experienced players is more than I signed up for.
You did kill me once. So that was nice for you.
Sounds like you could have used a template.
Why not a templar?
In there are templar template?

It would be tempting to make a Templar template.


Vidmaster7 wrote:
gran rey de los mono wrote:
In character Vidmaster7 wrote:
gran rey de los mono wrote:
Treppa wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:
*sigh* My PCs continue to cakewalk through book 5 of Strange Aeons. I find myself wishing that Paizo APs had suggestions along the lines of “to make this encounter tougher, add X.” Fiddling with encounters to make proper challenges for a group of experienced players is more than I signed up for.
You did kill me once. So that was nice for you.
Sounds like you could have used a template.
Why not a templar?
In there are templar template?
It would be tempting to make a Templar template.

A Tempting Templar template?


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A tempting Templar template to temper the temperamental temptresses.


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Tembe, the templated Tempting Templar tries to temper the temperamental temptresses through temporary temporizing temporal tempura and tempestuously temperatured tempeh.


Hello, everyone.


Hey John.


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gran rey de los mono wrote:
Tembe, the templated Tempting Templar tries to temper the temperamental temptresses through temporary temporizing temporal tempura and tempestuously temperatured tempeh.

... alright you win.


Vidmaster7 wrote:
gran rey de los mono wrote:
Tembe, the templated Tempting Templar tries to temper the temperamental temptresses through temporary temporizing temporal tempura and tempestuously temperatured tempeh.
... alright you win.

I know.

Scarab Sages

John Napier 698 wrote:
Hello, everyone.

Hey John. Feeling better?


Hi, Vid!


Woran wrote:
John Napier 698 wrote:
Hello, everyone.
Hey John. Feeling better?

Why, yes. I am feeling better. Thank you very much for asking.


Wiiiinnnndddd!


gran rey de los mono wrote:
Tembe, the templated Tempting Templar tries to temper the temperamental temptresses through temporary temporizing temporal tempura and tempestuously temperatured tempeh.

Tight

Silver Crusade

gran rey de los mono wrote:
Seriously, though. I do like adding templates to bad guys, especially unexpected ones. Like I'm prepping another one-shot in case the GM can't make it, and the final encounter is a half-fiend unicorn. That should surprise the players.

Too many of them are already templated to hell and back.

Sometimes I add like 50% more hp. Sometimes I add enemies.

At the end of book 4, I combined three encounters and had them fight all the enemies at once. That one gave a few paper cuts.


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Celestial Healer wrote:
gran rey de los mono wrote:
Seriously, though. I do like adding templates to bad guys, especially unexpected ones. Like I'm prepping another one-shot in case the GM can't make it, and the final encounter is a half-fiend unicorn. That should surprise the players.

Too many of them are already templated to hell and back.

Sometimes I add like 50% more hp. Sometimes I add enemies.

At the end of book 4, I combined three encounters and had them fight all the enemies at once. That one gave a few paper cuts.

You should play 2nd edition, they fixed that.

Silver Crusade

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Treppa wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:
*sigh* My PCs continue to cakewalk through book 5 of Strange Aeons. I find myself wishing that Paizo APs had suggestions along the lines of “to make this encounter tougher, add X.” Fiddling with encounters to make proper challenges for a group of experienced players is more than I signed up for.
You did kill me once. So that was nice for you.

Oops. Kinda forgot one of my players might read this.

You died to a failed save (two, actually - phantasmal killer). Dubs died (very temporarily) to another failed save (assassin’s death attack). That seems to be the only thing that scares anyone these days. Save-or-die isn’t a very satisfying way to go.

And, of course, I’m not trying to kill PCs. I make a point to avoid that as much as possible. But encounters that last less than two rounds, during which the enemies never land a hit, are not exactly exciting.

Also, ignore my post above where I revealed you fought 3 encounters at once *nervous laugh*

Silver Crusade

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captain yesterday wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:
gran rey de los mono wrote:
Seriously, though. I do like adding templates to bad guys, especially unexpected ones. Like I'm prepping another one-shot in case the GM can't make it, and the final encounter is a half-fiend unicorn. That should surprise the players.

Too many of them are already templated to hell and back.

Sometimes I add like 50% more hp. Sometimes I add enemies.

At the end of book 4, I combined three encounters and had them fight all the enemies at once. That one gave a few paper cuts.

You should play 2nd edition, they fixed that.

I will admit - running a high level P1 game is making me never want to run P1 again.

The enemy stat blocks are atrocious. They are full of spells the enemies will never use, and laundry lists of feats that can interact with combat in all sorts of ways, but only if the GM remembers all of them and knows what they all do.

Silver Crusade

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The worst are the solo enemies. Solo enemies just don’t work in that game.


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Celestial Healer wrote:
gran rey de los mono wrote:
Seriously, though. I do like adding templates to bad guys, especially unexpected ones. Like I'm prepping another one-shot in case the GM can't make it, and the final encounter is a half-fiend unicorn. That should surprise the players.

Too many of them are already templated to hell and back.

Sometimes I add like 50% more hp. Sometimes I add enemies.

At the end of book 4, I combined three encounters and had them fight all the enemies at once. That one gave a few paper cuts.

The answer is more templates. Or cow bell. Or both.

Cow bell template.


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Discovered on today's job search within a DoD contracting firm: Mission Manager of Zombie Program

I could lead the apocalypse!


captain yesterday wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:
gran rey de los mono wrote:
Seriously, though. I do like adding templates to bad guys, especially unexpected ones. Like I'm prepping another one-shot in case the GM can't make it, and the final encounter is a half-fiend unicorn. That should surprise the players.

Too many of them are already templated to hell and back.

Sometimes I add like 50% more hp. Sometimes I add enemies.

At the end of book 4, I combined three encounters and had them fight all the enemies at once. That one gave a few paper cuts.

You should play 2nd edition, they fixed that.

How?


gran rey de los mono wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:
gran rey de los mono wrote:
Seriously, though. I do like adding templates to bad guys, especially unexpected ones. Like I'm prepping another one-shot in case the GM can't make it, and the final encounter is a half-fiend unicorn. That should surprise the players.

Too many of them are already templated to hell and back.

Sometimes I add like 50% more hp. Sometimes I add enemies.

At the end of book 4, I combined three encounters and had them fight all the enemies at once. That one gave a few paper cuts.

The answer is more templates. Or cow bell. Or both.

Cow bell template.

Templates are fun. Reskinning is another method I use. Swapping out monsters' resistances or spells for others or sometimes for extra feats keeps things fresh and interesting for everyone.


Celestial Healer wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:
gran rey de los mono wrote:
Seriously, though. I do like adding templates to bad guys, especially unexpected ones. Like I'm prepping another one-shot in case the GM can't make it, and the final encounter is a half-fiend unicorn. That should surprise the players.

Too many of them are already templated to hell and back.

Sometimes I add like 50% more hp. Sometimes I add enemies.

At the end of book 4, I combined three encounters and had them fight all the enemies at once. That one gave a few paper cuts.

You should play 2nd edition, they fixed that.

I will admit - running a high level P1 game is making me never want to run P1 again.

The enemy stat blocks are atrocious. They are full of spells the enemies will never use, and laundry lists of feats that can interact with combat in all sorts of ways, but only if the GM remembers all of them and knows what they all do.

When bad guys have spells you want to see in play, you have to make a point to engineer a situation where they CAN be in play. If your CR 12 fey with 4 levels of Druid has a spell that makes illusory terrain for a half-mile radius, who's to say she didn't already have it cast before the PCs even got to her meadow? Now that she's engaged with the party, it'll be hard for her to get out that Lesser Geas spell; however when she can take a 5' step despite the difficult terrain, and this puts her in a patch of shrubbery she can teleport through, this is the opening she needs unless one of the PCs can follow her movement.

Huge quantities of feats are hard for me too. That's why I love index cards. When prepping for a set piece fight in a session and that set piece is going to involve something like a CR 11 Adult Black Dragon, with all the feats and attacks it has, I'll jot down different attacks depending on whether it's going to Power Attack or not, what the different attacks do such as wing buffet or tail slap, and so on. Each DIFFERENT type of attack goes on an index card. So, if the half-orc barbarian 7/Bard 3 is foolish enough to get into melee with the brute and the dragon can clearly see how little armor she has on, I'll reach over to the card marked "Power Attack" and flip it over revealing how it starts with Bite +17 (2d8 +22), then 2 Claws +16 (1d8 +15), and so on.

This isn't a perfect solution and I still forget things. It does seem to help me keep things straight though. Solo fights are the worst, even with dragons, b/c 4 highly optimized PCs either obliterate their one foe or said foe is so well optimized to match the party that one or more of the PCs are obliterated instead.

Silver Crusade

Yes. Those index cards would be helpful. But to me, that sounds like a lot of prep - especially if you are using published adventures to cut down on prep time to begin with.

When a stat block says an enemy has something like power attack or vital strike, the only way to use them is to reverse engineer the stat block and figure those attacks out. Why not just tell us the attack and damage stats for those attacks in the published stat block? (I know the answer is “word count”, but it doesn’t sit well with me.)

Scarab Sages

When phisically gaming, I would copy/paste statblocks into word and then add (x to hit - x to damage power attack) in places, as well as put in spell damage (6d6F) so it was easier for me to pick something on the fly.

I then printed statblocks to stick to my GM screen with a clothspin


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Celestial Healer wrote:
Oops. Kinda forgot one of my players might read this. Also, ignore my post above where I revealed you fought 3 encounters at once *nervous laugh*

Sorry! Didn't mean to intrude. And we knew about the 3 encounters :P And save-or-dies are never much fun. They always feel like a cheap kill rather than a deep thrill.

Solo BBEGs are almost doomed from the get-go, though you did have 3 miserable rolls with one guy that could have hurt us. We have a party of 6, so you can certainly use mooks or summoned creatures to harass the ranged folks. Make them waste actions on defending themselves rather than pounding the BBEG. We also have a rhythm going that you might be able to disrupt. Dominate and confuse have been very effective if it's possible to work that in.

Swarms and environmental hazards are always nice - bridges and ledges are nasty. I found that templating rarely did much in these solo encounters. It was always better to add lower-level guys who could harass and actually do damage, especially if they can work together to aid another. Puffin used to run SW games with storm troopers always aiding another to get one good blaster hit through AC. They weren't a huge threat, but working together they couldn't be ignored. It gave us lots of targets to address before the threat was gone.

Negative channeling clerics are a PITA but rarely used. Channeling doesn't provoke. :)

Calculating the attacks and swapping out spells in advance are very helpful. I wish I'd thought of index cards while I was running instead of one gigantic modified stat block. Check the magic items and use them, too. I often didn't bother with their inventory, and was always like -- why didn't I use that metamagic rod??

I also calculated my bad guys at 1/2, 3/4, and full HP and used the appropriate number for the fight (typically ramping up to full HP.) I had that on the modified stat block for the monsters. Always redid their likely action based on magic items and how my party played.

Yeah, it's a ton of prep work at high level. Slow play, lotsa prep. Not as fun as it should be - there's just so much to remember and add into rolls, saves, etc.

It's not you; it's the system.


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I had a crew of four other people last night, we did 70 houses in 7 hours. 44 of those houses were adjacent to each other but they all had two or three car garages so I'm counting them.

At any rate, we kicked ass and I made sure they knew what a good job they did.

Of course we still have another two snow storms to get through this week, so we'll see how many of them make it to next week.

Silver Crusade

All good ideas, Treppa!


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Celestial Healer wrote:
All good ideas, Treppa!

Wuh-oh.


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GothBard and I got COVID tested this morning and we'll get the results in a day or two. I find it entertaining that I'll be happy either way:
Positive: I'm enjoying an extremely mild version of the virus and just have to self-isolate for 14 days. Vacation!
Negative: I've managed to behave myself and avoid it.

GothBard wouldn't be nearly as happy with a positive result because she's actually getting tested because she wants to visit a couple of vulnerable people (test, then self-isolate for several days, then go), but the only reason I got tested because GothBard wanted company in line.

We'll see how things go...


So one thing I've become disillusioned with in PF1 at high level, is

Treppa wrote:
mooks or summoned creatures to harass the ranged folks

. There are SO many things I've got to get right for this to work. There's the layout and the entry tactics my players will have their characters use in the given scene. Then there's the timing and movement to get the said bad guys TO the ranged attackers. On top of all that, the harassers need to be powerful enough to actually pose some kind of threat to the ranged attacking PCs without being SO powerful that they throw off the balance of the fight.

I've had PCs ignore harassers that they know statistically aren't much of a threat to focus on the big bad. In one fight I had a player suddenly remember they were riding a mount with a Climb speed and they just retreated to a balcony in the chamber so they could continue firing their shortbow. 2 of my three groups are huge on recon and often pick positioning in encounter areas where mooks have to cross the path of the martial types in order to endanger the other PCs.

My "solo boss" fights typically end up being either one villain, one "lieutenant" type, they feature Environmental hazards the villain can ignore, or the "boss" is tucked safely away behind Cover and Concealment while wave after wave of minions soften the PCs up.


Fingers crossed for the best possible outcome NH!


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Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:
gran rey de los mono wrote:
Seriously, though. I do like adding templates to bad guys, especially unexpected ones. Like I'm prepping another one-shot in case the GM can't make it, and the final encounter is a half-fiend unicorn. That should surprise the players.

Too many of them are already templated to hell and back.

Sometimes I add like 50% more hp. Sometimes I add enemies.

At the end of book 4, I combined three encounters and had them fight all the enemies at once. That one gave a few paper cuts.

You should play 2nd edition, they fixed that.
How?

It's one of his running jokes. Pick anything deemed "deficient" or "broken" in PF1, however absurd.

"PF1 gave me herpes!"

"2nd Edition fixed that!"


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One thing I DID do in a mid-level dragon encounter: hidden kobold minions supporting the dragon boss.

A kobold Adept 4 is a CR 1 threat. This creature has a couple of cure or buff spells they can sling on their dragon boss. They also don't have to reveal themselves, putting these spells onto familiars to deliver to the boss. Similarly a kobold Adept 4 has a Stealth of +8, might have Invisibility spells or magical Darkness, and with a bit of Cover can be extremely tanky.

Take a CR 6 very young green dragon, against an APL 5 party. Toss in 2 kobold Adept 4 hiding in the forest nearby and give them diminutive, flying familiars with the Valet archetype. Now the kobolds have a take 10 Stealth of DC 18, an AC of 19 while wearing leather armor, and they're dropping Aid and Bull's Strength on the dragon on round 1. The PCs are meanwhile solo fighting a CR 6 dragon with a Bite +11 (1d8 +13) and 67 HP. And technically this all counts as a CR 7, possibly CR 8 fight.

Honestly CH, that's another way to make sure monsters get their spells cast. Liberal use of Cover, Concealment and the presence of buffers scattered around the encounter area whose sole job is to pump up the boss help make sure that the boss is protected enough to get their own spells off.


Vanykrye wrote:
Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:
gran rey de los mono wrote:
Seriously, though. I do like adding templates to bad guys, especially unexpected ones. Like I'm prepping another one-shot in case the GM can't make it, and the final encounter is a half-fiend unicorn. That should surprise the players.

Too many of them are already templated to hell and back.

Sometimes I add like 50% more hp. Sometimes I add enemies.

At the end of book 4, I combined three encounters and had them fight all the enemies at once. That one gave a few paper cuts.

You should play 2nd edition, they fixed that.
How?

It's one of his running jokes. Pick anything deemed "deficient" or "broken" in PF1, however absurd.

"PF1 gave me herpes!"

"2nd Edition fixed that!"

*puts down "special" cream prescribed by doctor* I need to go get PF2...


Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
So one thing I've become disillusioned with in PF1 at high level, is
Treppa wrote:
mooks or summoned creatures to harass the ranged folks
. There are SO many things I've got to get right for this to work. ... * a bunch of correct stuff *...

You're right; it has to be planned and they have to be a threat. Things popping out of walls are always scary and nasty. Mooks can also be cover/terrain.

Mark still wrote:
My "solo boss" fights typically end up being either one villain, one "lieutenant" type, they feature Environmental hazards the villain can ignore, or the "boss" is tucked safely away behind Cover and Concealment while wave after wave of minions soften the PCs up.

Yessssssss, a lieutenant is so helpful to summon, buff, heal, draw fire, whatever. The party works together to optimize; why shouldn't the bad guys? If you rely on one BBEG buffing themself, they're eating up all their actions to do so, and it's simply not fun.

I had to learn to throw the big stuff first; otherwise, the BBEG is gone before they can seriously unleash. I had dramatic scenes in my head of working up to the Big Power Reveal, evil speeches, etc. Nope. Nuke the party FIRST.


Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
One thing I DID do in a mid-level dragon encounter: hidden kobold minions supporting the dragon boss.

Are you Tucker?


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Vanykrye wrote:
Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:
gran rey de los mono wrote:
Seriously, though. I do like adding templates to bad guys, especially unexpected ones. Like I'm prepping another one-shot in case the GM can't make it, and the final encounter is a half-fiend unicorn. That should surprise the players.

Too many of them are already templated to hell and back.

Sometimes I add like 50% more hp. Sometimes I add enemies.

At the end of book 4, I combined three encounters and had them fight all the enemies at once. That one gave a few paper cuts.

You should play 2nd edition, they fixed that.
How?

It's one of his running jokes. Pick anything deemed "deficient" or "broken" in PF1, however absurd.

"PF1 gave me herpes!"

"2nd Edition fixed that!"

It's true! Rub a Bestiary on them and watch them disappear.

It helps that they did in fact fix a lot of problems with Pathfinder Classic in 2nd edition.

It's a different game (and to be honest I like both editions about the same, which is less than Starfinder) and it takes some getting used to, but it's a lot of fun.

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