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Let the pun-ishment equal the grimes.
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That is a dirty thing to do to me! ~puts my scales back on~
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Well that is the first time I've seen a nekkid durgon.
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Um I think that was a half-demon naked molerat actually...
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All these years people laughed or rolled their eyes every time I said Facebook was evil.
Ha!
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@Mort: The concept of blood-money is, especially in our modern age of plenty, a disturbing concept as it really runs contrary to our ideas of "justice".
What it really boils down to, is that a system based on Weregild (blood-money) is based around compensating the aggrieved party for damages done instead of exacting vengeance on their behalf. This seem all fine and dandy for property damages, but once you get into the fact that it would put a "fixed*" price on a human life, is where it makes people very uncomfortable.
What I do in-game is pick flavourful and interesting parts of old law-codes to add character to legal proceedings of the different realms of Golarion.
But a somewhat rule-of-thumb is that everywhere:
Property damages + "light assault" (ie fisticuffs, brawling and the like) + "disrespectful behaviour" (ie urinating on others property or the like) + "sexual indecency" (ie engaging in sexual activities on/in others property) = Light weregild (basically fines)
Petty thievery (stealing a loaf of bread to feed yourself) + Assualt (with weapons or permanent damage is caused) + very heavy property damage = Large weregild, if you can't pay then your family has to, unless they disavow you in which case your remaining personal property is sold of to pay the weregild (as much as possible) and the perpetrator is sent to forced labour and/or temporary enslavement depending on the amount of "damage done", maiming for repeat offenders.
Pickpocketing + Sexual crimes (where the victim(s) survives) + Robbery, burglary and thievery (where the victim(s) survives) + very dangerous property damage (Arson and the like) = Same as above, except if you can't cover the weregild, you'll face maiming and forced labour or enslavement, execution for repeat offenders.
Murder = Same as above, except if you can't cover the weregild, you'll be declared an outlaw, forfeiting any protections afforded by the community and the law (ie the victims family or other members of the community, heck your own family can kill you without fear of the law). You'll also likely be branded or maimed to show your crimes.
Treason, Murdering the ruler or members of his family and "crimes of a particularly heinous and vile nature" (ie mass-murder, spreading disease, poisoning a town well and other large scale indiscriminate targeting of people) result in a swift execution.
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Spring always tries to seduce me into loving it. But it's not going to work.
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Oh don't worry, I know I'm capable of a lot of horrifying things and am fully capable of becoming a fanatic, it's just whether I catch what is happening or am too tied up with moral indignation to notice.
I know fully well of the streak of darkness that lies within me, and there are times I wonder what would happen should it ever be unleashed. I honestly would rather not find out.
*starts thinking happy thoughts to exorcise ebul*
The sad thing is once I get into the "greater good" mode, I'll look at all the corpses I left along the way as "necessary sacrifices".
Regretful, but necessary.
Evil is such a loaded term!
You want to crate a utopian kingdom? Go right ahead! That is until someone disagrees or rebels with your vision of utopia. Then you learn the hard way, what we realists have always know, that all kingdoms are build on the bones of thousands.
You want to help others? Sure go ahead! There are always souls in need. Its almost like there born a new one ever minute! So prepare yourself to watch your line of needy slowly grow, however hard you toil to shrink it! Until such a time, that you learn you can't help everyone! The world is slowly being crushed under the weight of the despair, suffering and misery of the weak and feeble. What this world needs is triage, not mindless succor.So am I Evil? Ha! You can call me whatever you want! I, as so many others, am simply doing what has to be done.
thank you. I will use this in my rewrites of alignment for Freehold.
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I saw that lol.
*hides in a bush, quivering*
I'd say dogs are meatier. Eat the dogs not me!
>_>
<_<
B-but I *love* eating -
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I know what blood money and weregild is. It just makes me go urrrgghh.
I'm OK with forced labour actually. It's like if you made the mess, you get to fix it. The punishment must fit the crime...
On the side note I did talk to my BF about him making a character that picks pockets would make me uncomfortable and that didn't work out too well.
He asked why was I getting so worked up about the whole thing...ah well.
*runs into the shelter*
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Things I've learned:
Hollowing out eggs for pisanki is damned difficult.
I bought a pack of 18 eggs, figuring that over the course of the next week, I could use them a few at a time and then wash and dry them.
I remembered watching my aunt do it and I'd read internet tutorials, so how hard could it be?
My current success rate is 1/4.
Also, after going through three different tools, the orchid stake (not pointy but very small and hard) worked better than the wider tools with sharp points.
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All these years people laughed or rolled their eyes every time I said Facebook was evil.
Ha!
PREACH
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No problem with weregild. It is suing for damages essentially.
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No probs Kitty! ^^
Didn't doubt you knew what weregild was, just wanted to include it all in the explanation.
I'll be honest, I don't get your hang up quite either, cause there are a lot of reasons to pick pockets, person enrichment or dickery is just one of them. But if you have hang-ups it still something I would consider if I were to play in the same game.
There no need to send you fretting over stuff like that, so not playing a sneaky-stealy type wouldn't be any skin of my back :P
I think you should try gaming with your bf still though, might not be as bad as you fear. It is a risk though, and know it doesn't make you any less of kitty for bowing out later. We all have different playstyle preferences and your's doesn't make the game anymore badwrongfun then any other.
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It's like a slap to the face of the justice system. OK I'm rich, therefore I get to do whatever I want.
Fine, there's some truth in that, but...
*flattens ears*
Keep in mind that in most of Scandanavia, weregild is based on income, so being rich doesn't make it much less painful.
People mock Finland for its $103,000 speeding ticket. I admire them for creating a fair system.
And gee, yet again they're rated as the happiest people on the planet. Go figure...
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I've been burned too many times? The issue is I'm a little twitchy at this point of time, have trust issues + no patience for weird shenanigans.
Maybe I'm just not ready.
I don't know if I'm just getting uptight about it or am I right to feel that a group and GM that accepts casual pickpocketting probably isn't a good fit for me?
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Let's have a look - I have actually done some stealing before in pathfinder society. It's part of the faction mission, so you could consider it as a bonus objective of the scenario. I asked to go to the bathroom, brought my steam mephit along, flushed the toilet to conceal the sound of spellcasting, turned my steam mephit invisible and set him loose to pilfer my documents.
Wow Mort...
I guess it's all the shameful things you're admitting to when you're trying to claim you walk the high road...
Fine, I've tortured, I've stolen...let me see how many other things I haven't mentioned in the list yet.
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I've been burned too many times? The issue is I'm a little twitchy at this point of time, have trust issues + no patience for weird shenanigans.
Maybe I'm just not ready.
I don't know if I'm just getting uptight about it or am I right to feel that a group and GM that accepts casual pickpocketting probably isn't a good fit for me?
At the risk of repeating myself (which I do), I don't think it's a GM issue. If a player wanted to be a mischievous CN rogue who occasionally picked pockets of innocent NPCs on his way through town, I'd give the NPCs and party members their requisite Perception rolls, and everyone who knew about it would start a long, slow decline towards Evil (harming others for the fun of it is not a Neutral act in my book), but as a GM I would just monitor the situation.
The problem is, I've never seen a player who stopped there. "I want to play a gleaming anti-hero, like Dirty Harry or Judge Dredd" is what they always say. Then you actually let them play, and there's nothing "heroic" whatsoever in their behavior. NPCs are tools to be abused, robbed, mocked, and tormented.
"You come upon a grieving widow, crying over the corpses of her dead husband and children."
"Is she hot? I boff her!"
"You WHAT?!?!?!"
"I maxed out Diplomacy! I roll a... 42! I boff her right there on her husband's corpse! I'm Chaotic! It's fine!"
Yeah, THAT'S the kind of stuff I have to deal with when I allow players to be "lovable rogues".
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Again PFS has this clause that if NPCs get you to perform shady acts, karma is on them and not you, and you are free of alignment repercussions, which is sort of necessary considering some of the shady things you do in the name of the Pathfinder Society. There was an incident of threatening someone out of an auction because the Society wanted that item lol.
As you can see, I'm pretty good at following orders and am happy doing so and don't need to think for myself.
But I suppose the "lovable rogues" bit.. It's what that comes after that's the trouble.
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Oh a funny incident:
Lady Revenant going after her murderer.
Me: Milady, would you want me to help you beat up that cad, or do you want the pleasure of doing it yourself?
She doesn't answer.
Me:*ponders a little while* No gentleman doesn't help a lady out! *joins in beating up that cad*
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I've learned the long-lost secrets of weather control:
(1) Have leaky toilet flood bathroom, soaking bathmat
(2) Wash bathmat
(3) Hang bathmat on clothesline to dry
The bathmat has been on that clothesline for 3 weeks now, and we haven't had 3 straight days of dry weather since.
Magic bathmat!
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Hey, CY! Impus Major just picked around 30 lemons off our tree, and wants to make "lemon pie".
Do you have a good recipe you can link/post?
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Having opinions is a good thing!
And you being cautious is a natural thing if you've been burned a lot.
Its just that you won't really know if something if for you if you don't risk your whiskers once in while.
Are you ready? I don't know...
That's for you to discover. Just listen to that kitty head, heart (and belly) ^^.
Keep in mind that in most of Scandanavia, weregild is based on income,...
Yea, not so much in the olden days ^^'
however a lot of factors did go into figuring weregild (again huge variation in the different law codes):
Age, social status (think caste), ethnicity and gender is about the only that are fixed variables in just about all of the law codes.
Eksamples: Elderly are worth less then children (pre-sexual maturity), who are then again worth less then fertile adults.
Women are generally worth the same or more then men (with exceptions in both direction I believe, to as much as double the worth or half the worth), here again fertility also played quite a large role.
Ethnicity was the basis for which laws one applied to a particular person. There are good examples of, rather early in the medievel period, that if you had subject that were Alamanni, Burgundian and Lombard that you would apply the respective law codes to the respective ethnic peoples (this slowly disappeared with the centralisation of power and the influence of Roman law/Cannon law)
As for social status. Well there were many different models for this (with huge variations, down to rather minetue differences), but generally you would be looking at 7-9 different "casts" with each their own set weregild price (from high nobility to indentured servant/forced labourer), again each adjusted for other factors (see above).
...The problem is, I've never seen a player who stopped there. "I want to play a gleaming anti-hero, like Dirty Harry or Judge Dredd" is what they always say. Then you actually let them play, and there's nothing "heroic" whatsoever in their behavior. NPCs are tools to be abused, robbed, mocked, and tormented.
"You come upon a grieving widow, crying over the corpses of her dead husband and children."
"Is she hot? I boff her!"
"You WHAT?!?!?!"
"I maxed out Diplomacy! I roll a... 42! I boff her right there on her husband's corpse! I'm Chaotic! It's fine!"Yeah, THAT'S the kind of stuff I have to deal with when I allow players to be "lovable rogues".
At which point I fix my stare at the player in question, until he get the message that, "that's not cool bro" and we can get on with playing.
You wanna be Chaotic, that's fine. You wanna be clearly insane (or sociopathic to the point of insanity), then the rest of the players get to lock up your char in a asylum.|
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I know. I get that curse as well on blankets. Hang up my blankets to dry? It rains. Even if it was blue sky in the morning.
Thievery incident no. 2:
CN drunkard cleric this time.
We see some people being tied up by cannibals, so we rescue them.
After the rescue, my character finds out the people whom we rescued are wine merchants. And bringing a shipment of wine along. So my character tries to wheedle some wine out of them, saying, hey since we did rescue you from being turned into stew, you could pay us, right? Like maybe one bottle of wine?
And they were like no nadda! My character decides to help himself to a bottle of their stock.
I told you I don't work for free on neutral characters, right?
I mean hell, you PAY mercenaries to escort you around so why are you being so tight-fisted with adventurers that just saved your bacon?
I mean yes you should be nice to NPCs, but shouldn't NPCs also not be jerks and also act in a manner that adventurers will be willing to help them? If you can't pay now, fine, I can wait till you get to a city and sell your items.
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I dumped Charisma and have a - 4 size penalty to intimidate =(
Yeah maybe I'll wait until I hear the call again...dont feel very much like it now.
That cad was Aldern Foxglove. The Revenant was Illena. My ranger initally wanted to kill her where she stood(since his favored enemy IS undead) and he was worried she might attack Sandpoint.(He's like a grouchy badger defending his den with regards to the defense of the town). He became more sympathetic towards her after learning she, too, was a victim, and when she finally died after killing Aldern, he did say over her corpse that he hoped she could find peace.
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...The problem is, I've never seen a player who stopped there. "I want to play a gleaming anti-hero, like Dirty Harry or Judge Dredd" is what they always say. Then you actually ...The problem is, I've never seen a player who stopped there. "I want to play a gleaming anti-hero, like Dirty Harry or Judge Dredd" is what they always say. Then you actually let them play, and there's nothing "heroic" whatsoever in their behavior. NPCs are tools to be abused, robbed, mocked, and tormented.
"You come upon a grieving widow, crying over the corpses of her dead husband and children."
"Is she hot? I boff her!"
"You WHAT?!?!?!"
"I maxed out Diplomacy! I roll a... 42! I boff her right there on her husband's corpse! I'm Chaotic! It's fine!"Yeah, THAT'S the kind of stuff I have to deal with when I allow players to be "lovable rogues".
At which point I fix my stare at the player in question, until he get the message that, "that's not cool bro" and we can get on with playing.
You wanna be Chaotic, that's fine. You wanna be clearly insane (or sociopathic to the point of insanity), then the rest of the players get to lock up your char in a asylum...
Well, the original question was, "Whoah, NH, why are you so vehemently opposed to simple pickpockets?"
And my answer can be summed up by your response: I've never met a player who didn't take that "simple pickpocket" idea and extrapolate it into full-blown sociopath.
So I nip it in the bud, and "simple pickpocketing" isn't allowed at my table unless it's a throwaway one-off adventure, in which case the adventure morphs into, "Escape town alive."
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"You come upon a grieving widow, crying over the corpses of her dead husband and children."
"Is she hot? I boff her!"
"You WHAT?!?!?!"
"I maxed out Diplomacy! I roll a... 42! I boff her right there on her husband's corpse! I'm Chaotic! It's fine!"Yeah, THAT'S the kind of stuff I have to deal with when I allow players to be "lovable rogues".
I've got nothing. I mean, I've got some weird ideas and thoughts that ramble through my head at times, but that's just not one of them.
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It's like a slap to the face of the justice system. OK I'm rich, therefore I get to do whatever I want.
Fine, there's some truth in that, but...
*flattens ears*
Keep in mind that in most of Scandanavia, weregild is based on income, so being rich doesn't make it much less painful.
People mock Finland for its $103,000 speeding ticket. I admire them for creating a fair system.
And gee, yet again they're rated as the happiest people on the planet. Go figure...
Whoa! Count me as another admirer of Finnish justice.
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Hey, CY! Impus Major just picked around 30 lemons off our tree, and wants to make "lemon pie".
Do you have a good recipe you can link/post?
I couldn't find my recipe, but this one is pretty spot on! The best lemon pie you'll ever make!
And if not, blame Tacticslion!
Edit: I don't know that I would use the crust recipe for it though, buttermilk in the crust seems like a bit much.
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I've been burned too many times? The issue is I'm a little twitchy at this point of time, have trust issues + no patience for weird shenanigans.
Maybe I'm just not ready.
I don't know if I'm just getting uptight about it or am I right to feel that a group and GM that accepts casual pickpocketting probably isn't a good fit for me?
At the risk of repeating myself (which I do), I don't think it's a GM issue. If a player wanted to be a mischievous CN rogue who occasionally picked pockets of innocent NPCs on his way through town, I'd give the NPCs and party members their requisite Perception rolls, and everyone who knew about it would start a long, slow decline towards Evil (harming others for the fun of it is not a Neutral act in my book), but as a GM I would just monitor the situation.
The problem is, I've never seen a player who stopped there. "I want to play a gleaming anti-hero, like Dirty Harry or Judge Dredd" is what they always say. Then you actually let them play, and there's nothing "heroic" whatsoever in their behavior. NPCs are tools to be abused, robbed, mocked, and tormented.
"You come upon a grieving widow, crying over the corpses of her dead husband and children."
"Is she hot? I boff her!"
"You WHAT?!?!?!"
"I maxed out Diplomacy! I roll a... 42! I boff her right there on her husband's corpse! I'm Chaotic! It's fine!"Yeah, THAT'S the kind of stuff I have to deal with when I allow players to be "lovable rogues".
I see you've played with my brothers and sister!
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Man, it's fun sitting in on an internal corporate talk on a new product (monitoring internet-enabled devices) and listening to the director talk about how wonderful this product will be in terms of improving worker safety and productivity...
...when you're just sitting there fully aware that the moment we sell the product what it's REALLY going to be used for is targeted ads towards families based on what's in their fridge at the moment.
I just sit here wondering, "Does this guy really know he's spewing a mountain of BS, or is he really such an idealist that he thinks he's improving the world with this technology?"
The sad thing is, at Global Megacorporation, I really do think he's an idealist, which makes me admire and pity him at the same time...
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Hopefully now the vultures and blood sucking a%@~&@~s will stop asking me when the liquidation sales start.
Probably not though, a#*&$%#s don't like reading signs.
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...The problem is, I've never seen a player who stopped there. "I want to play a gleaming anti-hero, like Dirty Harry or Judge Dredd" is what they always say. Then you actually ...The problem is, I've never seen a player who stopped there. "I want to play a gleaming anti-hero, like Dirty Harry or Judge Dredd" is what they always say. Then you actually let them play, and there's nothing "heroic" whatsoever in their behavior. NPCs are tools to be abused, robbed, mocked, and tormented.
"You come upon a grieving widow, crying over the corpses of her dead husband and children."
"Is she hot? I boff her!"
"You WHAT?!?!?!"
"I maxed out Diplomacy! I roll a... 42! I boff her right there on her husband's corpse! I'm Chaotic! It's fine!"Yeah, THAT'S the kind of stuff I have to deal with when I allow players to be "lovable rogues".
At which point I fix my stare at the player in question, until he get the message that, "that's not cool bro" and we can get on with playing.
You wanna be Chaotic, that's fine. You wanna be clearly insane (or sociopathic to the point of insanity), then the rest of the players get to lock up your char in a asylum...Well, the original question was, "Whoah, NH, why are you so vehemently opposed to simple pickpockets?"
And my answer can be summed up by your response: I've never met a player who didn't take that "simple pickpocket" idea and extrapolate it into full-blown sociopath.
So I nip it in the bud, and "simple pickpocketing" isn't allowed at my table unless it's a throwaway one-off adventure, in which case the adventure morphs into, "Escape town alive."
If I wanna play evil, I play evil. Full on goatee-stroking, bombastic villain-laughing evil, with blood-red robes or black spiky armour and an irresistable urge for POWER at any cost. None of this 'Ooooh, look at me, I'm Chaotic Neutral herpyderpderpdoo'. Do it properly or play a pladludlin, I say.
Speaking of which, I would like a playable sentient penguin race for Pathfinder 2e, please, so I can stat up Pingu as a holy warrior.
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I've been burned too many times? The issue is I'm a little twitchy at this point of time, have trust issues + no patience for weird shenanigans.
Maybe I'm just not ready.
I don't know if I'm just getting uptight about it or am I right to feel that a group and GM that accepts casual pickpocketting probably isn't a good fit for me?
At the risk of repeating myself (which I do), I don't think it's a GM issue. If a player wanted to be a mischievous CN rogue who occasionally picked pockets of innocent NPCs on his way through town, I'd give the NPCs and party members their requisite Perception rolls, and everyone who knew about it would start a long, slow decline towards Evil (harming others for the fun of it is not a Neutral act in my book), but as a GM I would just monitor the situation.
The problem is, I've never seen a player who stopped there. "I want to play a gleaming anti-hero, like Dirty Harry or Judge Dredd" is what they always say. Then you actually let them play, and there's nothing "heroic" whatsoever in their behavior. NPCs are tools to be abused, robbed, mocked, and tormented.
"You come upon a grieving widow, crying over the corpses of her dead husband and children."
"Is she hot? I boff her!"
"You WHAT?!?!?!"
"I maxed out Diplomacy! I roll a... 42! I boff her right there on her husband's corpse! I'm Chaotic! It's fine!"Yeah, THAT'S the kind of stuff I have to deal with when I allow players to be "lovable rogues".
oh my god!
My character would NEVER stoop so low as to seduce a woman grieving her loss atop her beloved's body!
That's just unsanitary!
More seriously, I think this is nore of a problem with binary skill systems than alignment. That player would likely do the exact same thing if they were playing a paladin. Because the rules encourage such a success/fail viewpoint.
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Speaking of cooperative societies, the delicate dances we do always amaze me in their complexity and mutual understanding.
So I'm happy, because their daughter is ecstatic with her new computer (I called to check in on Sunday and they were bemoaning the fact that she wouldn't come to dinner because she was mid-game and "kicking their a***s" thanks to her low response time, but they were happy). They're happy, because they feel they paid me fairly for my work. I'm happy, because I have yet another excuse to go to Rivoli (as if I need one). Their daughter is happy, because she has a near-bleeding-edge gaming desktop.
So yeah, we all worked together, nobody haggled, nobody negotiated, everybody just did "what was right", and everybody is better off for it.
I just like the universe better this way.
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I love spring.
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Foulgore, a wight-boar.
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Hey, CY! Impus Major just picked around 30 lemons off our tree, and wants to make "lemon pie".
Do you have a good recipe you can link/post?
I couldn't find my recipe, but this one is pretty spot on! The best lemon pie you'll ever make!
And if not, blame Tacticslion!
Edit: I don't know that I would use the crust recipe for it though, buttermilk in the crust seems like a bit much.
What?! WHY MEEEEEEEEEEE~?!?!