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Assuming he doesn't pass his will save. I know there's charm person, detect thoughts, but it requires spending of a spell slot and the GM may screw with information given because detect thoughts needs 3 rounds and skims only surface thoughts. You need to tell me about the cleric trick.
I'm a lot of I did what I had to do, and the ends justify the means.
*gets dressed*
Probably at the end of the day a good thing I've never tried rolling a paladin except in games I GM.
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Petty thievery I put up with because it's inevitably done to poke the GM to be disruptive, or they're bored, I find it best to just ignore it and let the party sort it out.
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I also don't have my NPCs or monsters use domination magic.
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I tend to be more morally flexible. Sometimes you need to get quite dirty to defeat the greater evil.
And it is interesting to watch players as they trod the path toward fanaticism without even realizing it. Until the very end when they accomplish the greater good, face the litany of choices they made, and walk away wondering if the greater good didn't make the world a worse place.
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Oh don't worry, I know I'm capable of a lot of horrifying things and am fully capable of becoming a fanatic, it's just whether I catch what is happening or am too tied up with moral indignation to notice.
I know fully well of the streak of darkness that lies within me, and there are times I wonder what would happen should it ever be unleashed. I honestly would rather not find out.
*starts thinking happy thoughts to exorcise ebul*
The sad thing is once I get into the "greater good" mode, I'll look at all the corpses I left along the way as "necessary sacrifices".
Regretful, but necessary.
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Assuming he doesn't pass his will save. I know there's charm person, detect thoughts, but it requires spending of a spell slot and the GM may screw with information given because detect thoughts needs 3 rounds and skims only surface thoughts. You need to tell me about the cleric trick.
I'm a lot of I did what I had to do, and the ends justify the means.
*gets dressed*
Probably at the end of the day a good thing I've never tried rolling a paladin except in games I GM.
1) You presuppose that there is a will save; while my specific tongue-in-cheek example allows it, I'll just point to the spell lists. There are plenty of levels or builds for which that doesn't work, but for most of ours, it does.
2) That's why you have more than one.
3) That's why I noted the wizard was already reading his mind.
As an aside, there was a published adventure I was a mage in one time in which an NPC randomly had the ability to just lie right through detect thoughts for literally no other reason than the publishers (WotC) just didn't want him to divulge specific information. It's a jerk move, and I really hated that.
If the GM is intentionally and consistently negating your abilities by just ignoring your questions, the GM is being a jerk and really needs to cut that nonsense out, or talk to you out-of-character and explain that those abilities will break the module as-written, and shouldn't be just negating your stuff on the fly.
But in this case, "Hey, were is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base? Hey, where is your base?"
"Oh, got it, he slipped on that one."
If the character lies, that's what Sense Motive is for. Or commune ("is his base there? yes/no"). Or, really a ton of things. And scrolls make the world go 'round.
Divinations are one of the weakest spell schools because they don't let you kill the bad guy.
Divinations are one of the strongest spell schools because they don't care about most things, and allow you to bypass many issues.
So, if you really want an example, look for, "what can I do with a commune spell?" and you'll realize you can quickly narrow down where the bad dudes at by mere process of elimination, even if you have to start with "somewhere on the planet."
There are plenty of ways a GM can negate most any ability. But if the evoker-wizard with fire specialty started running into all fire-resistant or fire-immune monsters, or the metal-clad blade-specialist ran into nothing but rust monsters, or the ranger with favored enemy (anything but constructs) ran into a ton of constructs, something fishy is going on, and "having a fun time at the game table" is not going to be a thing that happens ().
But torture sucks because it doesn't give you reliable information - it just gives you what the prisoner thinks you want to hear to stop the torture.
(But for reals, the most powerful school is illusion, because simulacrum and conjuration schools exists; number two is just the conjuration school - the all of it. Divination and abjuration are just delights to have and make everything run better, as a general rule.)
But my point was simply this: recalcitrant thug? It's not that big a deal. There are multiple ways around it when you have the right spell.
Now, if you're doing a different sort of group, it becomes a much more difficult thing.
I like cursing people, myself. Kick the crap out of their charisma, wisdom, ability to take actions against you, ability to oppose you, pretty much every other penalty you can make.
"So: where is your base?"
Once discovered (so long as someone has a high wisdom and a sense motive, you're golden), (D) the otherwise permanent curses, and turn in a bandit and go on your merry way.
But mostly, and this is the real trick: follow the GM's hint road, and work with them. Unless you've signed up for that kind of game (and many do) an experienced GM invested in the story generally won't leave you high and dry with no way to continue forward.
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Actually with the mind thrust spell line you can kill people with divination spells. Lol. But that's a story for another time.
I have a history of GMs generally finding ways to negate anything that has to do with magic etc, so don't mind me if I'm a skeptic. It is also the reason why I am so RAW. It is my belief that anything allowing GM fiat is just going to screw you over.
Most gaming groups also will take the easier route of just torturing as opposed to using spell slots over it since often published scenarios etc are a time crunch.
Commune also takes 500 gp of spell components and is only available at higher levels.
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OK. Favorite line of my campaign journal so far:
I pretty much slid down the ladder just so I could watch Forth moan and groan about it some more, but it survived his great weight and he made it down in one piece. I'd say I was disappointed that he didn't fall, but I'm a nice person and I'm not a paladin so I don't lie.
Forth, the dwarven paladin of Torag, has had to be... less-than-forthcoming on more than one occasion...
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I was born there. But I was only there for a year and have yet to go back. It is on my bucket list.West Virginia.Waiiiiitttttt a minute!!! There's nothing wrong with my state. I mean I live here!
I was born here too. Just not in Fayette County. I live here because no one will give me 50 billion dollars unless it's a ransom or threat to world peace/world order.
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Oh don't worry, I know I'm capable of a lot of horrifying things and am fully capable of becoming a fanatic, it's just whether I catch what is happening or am too tied up with moral indignation to notice.
I know fully well of the streak of darkness that lies within me, and there are times I wonder what would happen should it ever be unleashed. I honestly would rather not find out.
*starts thinking happy thoughts to exorcise ebul*
The sad thing is once I get into the "greater good" mode, I'll look at all the corpses I left along the way as "necessary sacrifices".
Regretful, but necessary.
Evil is such a loaded term!
You want to crate a utopian kingdom? Go right ahead! That is until someone disagrees or rebels with your vision of utopia. Then you learn the hard way, what we realists have always know, that all kingdoms are build on the bones of thousands.
You want to help others? Sure go ahead! There are always souls in need. Its almost like there born a new one ever minute! So prepare yourself to watch your line of needy slowly grow, however hard you toil to shrink it! Until such a time, that you learn you can't help everyone! The world is slowly being crushed under the weight of the despair, suffering and misery of the weak and feeble. What this world needs is triage, not mindless succor.
So am I Evil? Ha! You can call me whatever you want! I, as so many others, am simply doing what has to be done.
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I wonder if that guy running the why aren't you a millionaire thread had Facebook stock.
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Alignment wise: My general experience is that if you include a Neutral in your alignment, then your GM is more likely to pass over your morally questionable shenanigans.
Its probably no wonder then that all my characters in classes without Good/Evil requirements are some form of Neutral then ^^'.
As for Npc's...
Well they are mostly fair game. With the implicit understanding that, there will be consequences if any "hostile" actions are discovered. Generally though, torture, rape and the like is frowned upon in our games, unless its handled carefully and is actually conductive to further storytelling. I, myself, tend to have very little patience for random destructive and hideous behaviour of that kind, I will however make exceptions to those I know can weave these topics into a carefully crafted narrative.
Though even our PF games then to be a smidge darker then the setting in general. When I'm GM'ing, I do tend to place much more emphasis on how violence is the driving factor in the quasi-medieval fantasy worlds. Imprisonment is either very very temporary or reserved for people how are too valuable or important to execute. So any crimes are either dealt with through fines/blood-money, enslavement/forced labour or maiming/execution.
There are also far more classical feudal realmes in my version of Golarion, making Andoran a true and bizarre outliner (also my Andoran is a bit different, its more modelled on a late-era mercantile republic then on a early democracy). Places like last Last-wall being more alike to pseudo-theocratic military order states (the Teutonic Order) with a particularly harsh feudal structure (partially out of necessity - there are orcs next door you know).
Religion and religiosity is still very important, but the whole weird non-intervention clause thing, the strange case of Rahadoum and secular >< religious tensions about the division of responsibilities between the two, means that in some places the (various) churches have submitted to secular authority (or vice versa -> see Lastwall).
- urgh too tired to go on ^^ its not that interesting anyways.
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Tomorrow should be fun.
It's finally hit my bosses that my slowdown is a massive problem. Today, one of them tried to fix it by examining my workstation and determining the issue is I lack proper tools.
While my boss did that, I spent two hours at the window checking in kits. Checking in kits took up six hours of my day.
You tell me why I'm not getting impression trays clean.
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I also strongly object to the idea that undead are or should always be inherently evil. Perhaps a specific spell or ritual is, but undead (especially mindless ones) are not, in our games.
That said, I usually follow setting-specific rules, so if they are in a setting, they are in that game, too (though there are enough "holes" in Golarion canon to make that "rule" laughable, at best).
It's funny, I see RL morality as subjective in many ways -- at most, in broad strokes, it's a reflection of common human emotions and survival strategies. Which makes broad-strokes morality universal insofar as those emotions and strategies are common, but not universal in the in-game sense. But I do like the concept of objective morality in game, and I do like the idea of undead being inherently evil -- though I do agree that as-written there's zero justification for many specific undead being evil.
So, yay for preference inversion? ;)
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Also, for added fun, that same manager wanted to know why I didn't mention those missing tools.
I mention I need a certain chemical to stay up there because it's the only thing that gets one substance off. This is ignored and the chemical removed overnight.
I mention I need to have time to clean kits, as in not being on the window all day. You know, share the workload. This is ignored.
I mention something is in the way and will get tripped over. I get chastised not to break it. It finally gets moved when someone else breaks it by tripping over it.
I mention I need to change PPE daily because of the nature of what gets on them, even if you can't see it. Same manager wondering why I don't ask about missing tools chastises me for changing PPEs, despite it being department policy. As in, I could get fired for not doing this. I've pointed this out; it gets ignored.
That same manager also wonders why I don't ask the others up front for help. Because a) I was told not to expect their help by another manager; b) it's been made clear the point of having me up there is so they can get their kits done, which won't happen if they spend all day stuck on the window like I am; c) one of them only helps as long as he absolutely has to, often doesn't check in kits, and rushes off to his desk at the first opportunity; d) the other is unreliable to be around when I actually do need her, due to her tendency to run to the bathroom as soon as she gets a hint I'm going to ask for help. Why would I ask them for help?
There is not one single person up front who belongs up there. And we have managers who shouldn't be in charge of their own grocery lists. Is it any wonder the students and staff both would sell out the management of my department for take-out from Subway?
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Also, for added fun, that same manager wanted to know why I didn't mention those missing tools.
I mention I need a certain chemical to stay up there because it's the only thing that gets one substance off. This is ignored and the chemical removed overnight.
I mention I need to have time to clean kits, as in not being on the window all day. You know, share the workload. This is ignored.
I mention something is in the way and will get tripped over. I get chastised not to break it. It finally gets moved when someone else breaks it by tripping over it.
I mention I need to change PPE daily because of the nature of what gets on them, even if you can't see it. Same manager wondering why I don't ask about missing tools chastises me for changing PPEs, despite it being department policy. As in, I could get fired for not doing this. I've pointed this out; it gets ignored.
That same manager also wonders why I don't ask the others up front for help. Because a) I was told not to expect their help by another manager; b) it's been made clear the point of having me up there is so they can get their kits done, which won't happen if they spend all day stuck on the window like I am; c) one of them only helps as long as he absolutely has to, often doesn't check in kits, and rushes off to his desk at the first opportunity; d) the other is unreliable to be around when I actually do need her, due to her tendency to run to the bathroom as soon as she gets a hint I'm going to ask for help. Why would I ask them for help?
There is not one single person up front who belongs up there. And we have managers who shouldn't be in charge of their own grocery lists. Is it any wonder the students and staff both would sell out the management of my department for take-out from Subway?
Yay on system bureaucracy. I'm happy I'm in a small company and don't have to put up with this.
Kjeldorn - since I am not a student of medieval history, the criminal justice system in my games is what you'd find in Uk/Singapore, since it's the law system I'm most familiar with. For those who do not know - Singapore does have capital punishment. You murder someone? If you don't manage to plead any defences (I.e diminished responsibility, loss of control etc), you hang.
The concept of blood money to me is Urgh.
And you can always(assuming you're in a civilized place) throw people into jails =)
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I went geese hunting the other day, but as soon as they started flying I knew the game was up.
I don't give a pluck, but for that joke, your goose is cooked.
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I went to try out the new climbing wall at the gym today, but someone had stolen all the handholds. Seriously, I couldn't make it up.
This joke had a rocky start.
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I'm watching a Day9 video, and someone asked him a question which I will now ask to FaWtL:
Would you rather change gender every time you sneezed, or never be able to tell the difference between a muffin and an infant?
The former since I already have the latter. ~finishes eating the "muffin"~
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I'd rather change gender every time I sneezed. I don't feel particularly girly and think I might have been one happy guy.
But I've had decades to get used to being female so both ways are fine with me.
Being unable to tell a muffin from and infant is bad. Will get you into trouble,since if you think an infant is a muffin and nom, that's murder.
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*gulps and looks at Sharoth nervously, then starts running*
~calls after Mort~ Come back here, little muffin!
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I'm not big on muffins so I would just have to have a momentary freak out every time I passed prepackaged muffins in a store. otherwise I'd be good. Gender sneezing does sound like an interesting experience but Probably more trouble then its worth. also what happens if your pregnant and sneeze? Are we talking a "Junior" situation?
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MUFFINS!!!!
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~pulls out a cookbook~ Hmmnnn... Diced Cat Burgers? Interesting! ~looks around for Mort~
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That was not a purrfect joke at all.
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You have Cat to be kitten me....
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Are we still on the topic of RPG meowrality vs. RL meowrality?
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I don't know If i'm feline it.
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Its a down right cat-tastrophe