Deep 6 FaWtL


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Netflix has just started offering their streaming services in Poland. Shame the list of thing available hadn't thrilled me (they have to work within the existing regional licenses).


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Today's technical term of the day:

deniable plausibility: when there's no way that something could possibly have happened, but it happened anyway.


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Lack of more naughty titles was one of the issues.


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David M Mallon wrote:

Today's technical term of the day:

deniable plausibility: when there's no way that something could possibly have happened, but it happened anyway.

You discovered that the thieves that were plaguing your construction area finally finished their starship because their take off ruined the site?


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Treppa wrote:
Am I the only one who's never played FF?

Nope, not the only one.


lynora wrote:
Treppa wrote:
Am I the only one who's never played FF?
Nope, not the only one.

I played 7 but I was smoking hella ganj then, so I honestly don't remember much, Aerys, spiky hair blonde a#$*+++ is the main dude, some tech scavenger chick (?), airships, some guy that f*+*ed shot up with his gun...


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lynora wrote:
Treppa wrote:
Am I the only one who's never played FF?
Nope, not the only one.

how could two of the most fawtl women I know not have played the second greatest game series ever?


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I tried to play FF once. No idea what number but fairly recent I think. I couldn't make it through the opening scene before the motion sickness set in. So pretty sure that doesn't count. But aside from a brief window of time many years ago with my beloved dreamcast I've never been all that into video games. I like Mass Effect and I liked Dragon Age before inquisition came out (there's a whole rant about modern too good but not quite good enough graphics there), but mostly I play happy home designer on my 3ds. Because it's fun. :)


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Drejk wrote:
David M Mallon wrote:

Today's technical term of the day:

deniable plausibility: when there's no way that something could possibly have happened, but it happened anyway.

You discovered that the thieves that were plaguing your construction area finally finished their starship because their take off ruined the site?

If only.


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lynora wrote:
I couldn't make it through the opening scene before the motion sickness set in.

Motion sickness, thy name is The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion.


Freehold DM wrote:
lynora wrote:
Treppa wrote:
Am I the only one who's never played FF?
Nope, not the only one.
how could two of the most fawtl women I know not have played the second greatest game series ever?

What's the first greatest?


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lynora wrote:

I tried to play FF once. No idea what number but fairly recent I think. I couldn't make it through the opening scene before the motion sickness set in. So pretty sure that doesn't count. But aside from a brief window of time many years ago with my beloved dreamcast I've never been all that into video games. I like Mass Effect and I liked Dragon Age before inquisition came out (there's a whole rant about modern too good but not quite good enough graphics there), but mostly I play happy home designer on my 3ds. Because it's fun. :)

animal crossing?


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David M Mallon wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
lynora wrote:
Treppa wrote:
Am I the only one who's never played FF?
Nope, not the only one.
how could two of the most fawtl women I know not have played the second greatest game series ever?
What's the first greatest?

the SaGa series, also known in this country as final fantasy legend.

My first rpg. A semi seamless blending of magic, fantasy, scifi, punk, and Japanese influences.


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Freehold DM wrote:
lynora wrote:
Treppa wrote:
Am I the only one who's never played FF?
Nope, not the only one.
how could two of the most fawtl women I know not have played the second greatest game series ever?

Never had the platform.


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David M Mallon wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
lynora wrote:
Treppa wrote:
Am I the only one who's never played FF?
Nope, not the only one.
how could two of the most fawtl women I know not have played the second greatest game series ever?
What's the first greatest?

Marathon.


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Transformers Prime is such a fun show.


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Freehold DM wrote:
lynora wrote:

I tried to play FF once. No idea what number but fairly recent I think. I couldn't make it through the opening scene before the motion sickness set in. So pretty sure that doesn't count. But aside from a brief window of time many years ago with my beloved dreamcast I've never been all that into video games. I like Mass Effect and I liked Dragon Age before inquisition came out (there's a whole rant about modern too good but not quite good enough graphics there), but mostly I play happy home designer on my 3ds. Because it's fun. :)

animal crossing?

Yep. I played animal crossing maybe a little too much, and then picked up happy home designer as soon as it came out. It's all the most fun parts of animal crossing without the incessant fishing. :)


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I got the kids Minecraft for Christmas.

As far as I can tell, they built one enclosure, and populated it with wolves and pigs. Now they just fly overhead and wait for the wolves to eat the pigs, hoping such a bountiful feast will domesticate them (?).


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Freehold DM wrote:
lynora wrote:
Treppa wrote:
Am I the only one who's never played FF?
Nope, not the only one.
how could two of the most fawtl women I know not have played the second greatest game series ever?

~raises hand~

I haven't played it either.

Dark Archive

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Freehold DM wrote:
I reserve a special hatred for 7.

::sadface::

Dark Archive

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I'm not sure which I'd recommend now, as not all have aged well. VII was my favourite by far, so probably it, but the SNES graphics have such a timeless feel, VI on Steam may be a better idea, at least until the VII remake comes out.

Dark Archive

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VIII felt like a teen emo drama fest. Dry, uninteresting characters, systems that were a major simplification/step back from VII's materia system, and a nonsensical story. I just can't stand it.

Dark Archive

Never played SaGa or SoM, did they come to Europe at all? Haven't played any FF before V either.

Dark Archive

Haven't played any since X-2 either, I've heard only bad things so haven't bothered. Wasn't the biggest X fan.


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X-2 was just Charlie's Angels the RPG. Don't believe me? Watch the opening scene again, in mute, with the theme to Charlie's Angels in the background. It totally fits.

Should've swapped Payne out for Lulu. Lulu in various outfits would've made it so worth it. Rikku was a silver medal.

Silver Crusade

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Treppa wrote:
Can you learn to be a good singer? I mean, if you have a good ear but weak voice, can your voice be trained to be a great voice? Or do you have to be born with it?

Absolutely.

Truly good singers get there through technique and practice. There is a biological component as well, and that may make the difference between being pretty good and being Pavarotti, but as a general rule singers are made not born.

Silver Crusade

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Treppa wrote:
Drejk wrote:
Treppa wrote:
Can you learn to be a good singer? I mean, if you have a good ear but weak voice, can your voice be trained to be a great voice? Or do you have to be born with it?
Voice can be trained. Lots of training for lungs, breathing, and exhaling. I should get some of that training myself, not for singing though, but for speaking and GMing.
I have breath training, but not voice training.

This would serve you well. Breath support is essential, plus many people don't realize that vocal vibrato is produced the same way as flute vibrato (some produce it in the throat instead, but that leads to a nasty wobble after a number of years).


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Treppa wrote:
Am I the only one who's never played FF?

I haven't either. I have never owned a console, so that may be why... unless it's also available on PC, in which case I've just never come across it.

In other Interesting News, my desk is a light tan colour and has a fake woodgrain effect. It is shaped like a truncated squared-off banana or an M16 magazine. It has a copy of Occupation Groupings: A Job Dictionary on it, which is 14 years out of date but which I am still using; I still don't really know what a fell monger is.

Dark Archive

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Mornin' FaWtL. I hope everyone is well today, and has a good day ahead. The weekend is almost here, for those that benefit (I do :P ), so I hope everyone has a great weekend too. :) Visiting friends in the capital that I haven't seen in months, plan on doing an adventure room and generally hang out. Looking forward to it. :)

Dark Archive

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Working on 4ish hours sleep in work atm, not ideal, but had a great Exalted game last night, so not complaining. Anyone else here ever played it?


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Oh YES. :-)


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I have heard of it... but never had the chance to play.


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Limeylongears wrote:
Treppa wrote:
Am I the only one who's never played FF?
I haven't either. I have never owned a console, so that may be why... unless it's also available on PC, in which case I've just never come across it.

They JUST got around to porting the games to PC this past year. You can now play III through VIII via Steam, and IX is on its way.


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7 was on PC a year or two after PlayStation. They RE-released it on PC recently.


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Before we begin, while Final Fantasy III and Final Fantasy II are their own games, in the USA only, due to translation and release issues, they never made it to our shores (until the very late Playstation era).

Instead, we received Final Fantasy IV and Final Fantasy VI, skipping Final Fantasy V. Because we'd missed 2 and 3, the actual FFIV was renamed FFII in the 'States, and, with the skip of FFV, the actual FFVI was renamed FFIII.

Then FFVII came out, and they went, "You know, that whole... re-numbering thing we did was a mistake. Oops." and they've been subsequently talked about almost exclusively with the original (Japanese) numbering system.

I add this just so it's clear: when I refer to II and III, "in-character" of my highschool self below, I'm actually referring to what is today known as IV and VI, respectively.

LordSynos wrote:
I'm not sure which I'd recommend now, as not all have aged well. VII was my favourite by far, so probably it, but the SNES graphics have such a timeless feel, VI on Steam may be a better idea, at least until the VII remake comes out.

I heart me some LordSynos, but, uh, VII... is not the one for anyone who has issues with visuals, I don't think.

To be clear, I enjoyed 7 immensely when it came out (I also was a little bit of a poseur/hipster with "I know FF better than you guys, 'cause I've been with the series since II and III" in high school* - I also wasn't a fan of the 'grittier' feel as opposed to the more high fantasy of III at the time).

However, VII... has not aged well^. (Don't, uh... don't watch the rest of that, if you've got a tendency to motion sickness.)

What I find interesting is that with my tv, it looks even worse than it does on the YouTube video... and my tv has some really sharp imaging.

Add that to color swirl battle transitions, and an early attempt at a panoramic sweep before showing off the characters in-battle... and it's not a pretty picture.

* Man, I was an arrogant little snot**.
** Man, somethings haven't changed.***
*** Ooh~! Nice burn!
^ For the record, I've never actually seen that video before today, when looking for something to show what I mean.

Freehold DM wrote:
Everything else is dross, but I reserve a special hatred for 7.
LordSynos wrote:
VIII felt like a teen emo drama fest. Dry, uninteresting characters, systems that were a major simplification/step back from VII's materia system, and a nonsensical story. I just can't stand it.
LordSynos wrote:
Haven't played any since X-2 either, I've heard only bad things so haven't bothered. Wasn't the biggest X fan.

You'll get similar sentiments from most FF fans, just with different numbers and different takes on the whole thing.

Want to know why?

Because Final Fantasy, as series, never rests on its laurels.

Some of the most irritating, frustrating, and confusing decisions they've ever made... are part of the same design decisions they've made from the beginning.

Exactly what they were thinking:
I: "It's like D&D, but with robots and airships and stuff!"

II: "That sold like gangbusters: now let's change literally absolutely everything about it (except for the fact that it's a game called Final Fantasy in a fantasy-punk-ish setting that has nothing to do with the last one)!"

III: "That didn't go so well... so let's remake I! Oh, except this time, let's let people change their class! Oh, and give the heroes personality! Oh, and totally change around the map and starting situation and dialogue! Oh, and most of the actual gameplay!"

IV: "Let's just put this whole thing on the rails, and talk about space whales, and moon-people, and whatever the heck else we feel like! Also, still totally unconnected to anything else in our series, and instead of allowing anyone to be any class, each person only ever has one, each of which comes with it's own personality! Oh, and instead of starting off the good guys, let's start off as the bad guys... only you don't know it!"

V: "That sold like gangbusters! Let's blend III's ability to be any class with IV's railroad plot and extremely specified characters! Also, let's talk about multiple worlds, and suddenly add lore to everything! And tie it all together so far, while having nothing to do with anything... at the same time!"

VI: "You know what would be great? Completely ignoring everything we've ever done (except for ATB, hp/mp, and equipment), and going with a story that actively invalidates the lore we just finished tying up in the last story! Even more characters than IV, each with their unique classes (except, let's add Gogo in), and then we'll add this whole new system by which you can level up to be even better with materia junctioning oh, wait, we won't come out with those ideas for a few years, uh, magicite, yes, and grant any class magic, that way! And also let's add even more steam punk-esque elements - can't get enough of that! And let's make sure the story is nothing like the constant dark-to-light of the first... that was too bright! But let's make sure that people can earn a happy ending!"

VII: "Man, that sold like gangbusters. Let's change absolutely everything! Instead of being a high fantasy operatic war of good and evil with magitech (which we've done a lot), let's just go whole-hog on the 'modern' thing and put it in 'modern' day! Also, let's recycle that magicite thing, only call it materia, and give it an entirely different backstory! And let's change the mechanics again, taking away actual class specials, but giving unique people 'limit breaks'! And let's make sure that you're basically just the least bad of a world full of bad guys that are (reluctantly) forced to be good guys!"

VIII: "Wow, that sold like super gangbusters! You know what was lacking last time? Emo! Also teen angst! Also, we've kind of abandoned the really confusing out-of-nowhere ending kind of thing for the last... three games, or so. Let's go back to that! Hey, you know what was super popular? Magicite! Also materia! So let's ditch the rock-aspect, call it junction, and make everyone a summoner! That's how you have magic, now! Also, let's make our heroes into anti-hero mercenaries! Who pays them? No idea! Doesn't matter! Layer a great story hidden in all the goop, and then add a confusing nonsensical plot twist... here... and voila! Also, this is much less visually gritty than 7, while being more morally gray, up until the end! Woo~!"

IX: "You know what we miss? The good old days. Let's abandon everything we've built for ourselves - especially ignoring the hyper-money-making 7 - and go back to good ol' fou-, er... thre-, er... si-, er... *mumbles jumbled number prior to seven, excluding 1 and 2* yeah, that one, and also make our card game actively worse than before! Also, we're just going to go insane with our art direction - and we don't care! Also, also, we're just gonna wrap all the FF lore that exists so far up with a neat little paradoxically confusing bow!"

X: "Man: that was way too popular! Let's alter everything again! Now everyone levels up on the same sphere system, meaning anyone can become anything (eventually), and the setting is pretty much the polar opposite of the last one we did! We'll do so by contrasting modern and ancient Japanese cultures, but in a really alien way and with a really alien religio- wait, I got it! Also, that one movie by that one guy with Willis was great! Let's copy that twist! Also, let's create lore to tie this into 7, while actively invalidating all other FF lore!"

X-2: "Sure we've never done a direct sequel before, but gosh-darn-it, that sold so moderately that we've got to! Also, let's change everything, and go with the 'any class' idea from III and V, except let's make it only the ladies of the last one, except Lulu (who should be replaced with someone younger?), and add a really weird story about ghosts who aren't ghosts and reincarnated spirits of musicians and completely ignore the sport thing we had going on last time! Also: nonsensical politics! The Star Wars prequels exist, people must love nonsensical politics!"

XI: "You know what we haven't done? An MMO! You know what would be really incomprehensible? Making the next game in our primary numbered series an MMO! YEAH! Let's do it!"

... and so on.

Effectively, each game was (and still is, even today) made to be entirely D I F F E R E N T than the one before it.

MatPat of Game Theory has a theory about FF - whatever your first FF was (at least the first one you got into) from the numbered series, that is your favorite FF of the numbered series. While I'm not entirely certain that's ironclad... I think it has some validity to it. Each FF is so extremely different from the one before in so many ways that, if it grips you, emotionally, than you're going to be impressed with the idea, This. This is what Final Fantasy actually is. and that' is going to be something hard to shed. Everything else will have to live up to the self-generated "hype" of that first incredible experience... and it won't, quite, because it managed to "get" you once, already.

As a corollary, though, I think that any given FF kind of has a window to "get" you. I think there are definitely certain tastes which would clash with FF in general, and certain life periods that would do so as well.

Redbeard the Scruffy wrote:

X-2 was just Charlie's Angels the RPG. Don't believe me? Watch the opening scene again, in mute, with the theme to Charlie's Angels in the background. It totally fits.

Should've swapped Payne out for Lulu. Lulu in various outfits would've made it so worth it. Rikku was a silver medal.

This... is accurate. (Except for Rikku. Did not really like her in this game.)


Also, both of my boys are suuuuuper asleep. One has school soon, and... I can't wake him. I mean, I probably could if I really tried hard, but... he never sleeps this late. Ever.

They do not respond to voice, gentle touches, or illumination.

I'm questioning whether or not my eldest sick because of it. Hm. Time shall reveal all, I suppose.


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Sometimes, they just need to sleep in, even Tiny T-Rex sleeps in occasionally.


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I'm biased about Rikku. There was a girl in a college class I had who looked exactly like her that flirted with me before I had confidence to actually read into it.

Plus, that shot of her dropping the body suit when she's first revealed in 10...baby got a little back for a Blondie.

Also, genius geeky girls are almost as sexy as pissed off stacked goth chicks.


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LordSynos wrote:
Never played SaGa or SoM, did they come to Europe at all? Haven't played any FF before V either.

I believe it was released as final fantasy legend as it was known in the states, yes.


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Redbeard the Scruffy wrote:

X-2 was just Charlie's Angels the RPG. Don't believe me? Watch the opening scene again, in mute, with the theme to Charlie's Angels in the background. It totally fits.

Should've swapped Payne out for Lulu. Lulu in various outfits would've made it so worth it. Rikku was a silver medal.

I would give much for a version of x-2 with lulu instead of paine.

I love lulu. My wife has accepted this.


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Celestial Healer wrote:
Treppa wrote:
Can you learn to be a good singer? I mean, if you have a good ear but weak voice, can your voice be trained to be a great voice? Or do you have to be born with it?

Absolutely.

Truly good singers get there through technique and practice. There is a biological component as well, and that may make the difference between being pretty good and being Pavarotti, but as a general rule singers are made not born.

I will hence make you sit in on my singing lessons. I have a singing voice just like your least favorite instrument.


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LordSynos wrote:
Working on 4ish hours sleep in work atm, not ideal, but had a great Exalted game last night, so not complaining. Anyone else here ever played it?

has flashbacks

I much preferred similar ideas revisited in scion.


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Tacticslion wrote:
IX: "You know what we miss? The good old days. Let's abandon everything we've built for ourselves - especially ignoring the hyper-money-making 7 - and go back to good ol' fou-, er... thre-, er... si-, er... *mumbles jumbled number prior to seven, excluding 1 and 2* yeah, that one, and also make our card game actively worse than before! Also, we're just going to go insane with our art direction - and we don't care! Also, also, we're just gonna wrap all the FF lore that exists so far up with a neat little paradoxically confusing bow!"

To be fair, IX was done this way intentionally as a celebration of the series thus-far. It was the last single-digit FF and the last one to be on PS1; they were already working on X on the PS2 at the same time. So as a result, they decided to make the game DROWNING in old-school charm and references to the older games.

The FF Wiki has an entire, ENORMOUS page dedicated to nothing else but tracking the references to I-VIII in IX.

It's probably one of the main reasons IX is my second-favorite: I'm squarely, solidly, firmly in the dead-center of its target audience: someone who started the series early (IV was the first I played, VI was my favorite and the first I actually finished, V was my second-favorite prior to playing IX) and wasn't the hugest fan of the games that were paving the way for the series' future (VII and VIII).

It was sort of a swan-song for the series thus far, a friendly nod toward players that had been with the series from the 2D era and a fond farewell toward the series' steampunkish fantasy roots; starting with X, things got a LOT more modern in feel and style, and they've continued with that up through XIII and XV. (XII was sort of a nod towards Tactics fans, being set in the same world and such, but apparently it changed a lot of the lore or something so not everyone was happy with the acknowledgement.)


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Oh, sure. To be clear, my list wasn't a complaint of any sort: I was simply giving a (hopefully humorous) breakdown of the fact that each game was entirely different from the last - even XI, despite being a vague pastiche of the previous games, was fundamentally different. Again.

(Point in fact, regardless of their rankings, everything

It's... a fascinating way of running the series. And... it seems to be working, despite all of "our" i.e. the fandom's complaints... probably because the fandom has been cultivated to be so vast and so varied that they can no longer agree on what "the best" is, and that means that, no matter what, they'll keep getting more, in search of that golden "first" experience thing (or something better).

(Also, the quote box is messed up at this time.) Nevermind, you fixed it. :)

EDIT:

Freehold DM wrote:
LordSynos wrote:
Working on 4ish hours sleep in work atm, not ideal, but had a great Exalted game last night, so not complaining. Anyone else here ever played it?

has flashbacks

I much preferred similar ideas revisited in scion.

I've not played Scion. Care to link something about it? :D


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Well, it WAS working until the core team left to form Mistwalker and started Last Story (which is a hilarious title given it's by the creators of FF), and Nobuo left to form his own production company, and now all they do is repaint their old games and release them again.


Redbeard the Scruffy wrote:
Well, it WAS working until the core team left to form Mistwalker and started Last Story (which is a hilarious title given it's by the creators of FF), and Nobuo left to form his own production company, and now all they do is repaint their old games and release them again.

Yeah, Last Story was... well, it's a smart move, I'll say that.

Also, for Nobuo... dude wanted his whole life to be a professional wrestler. So, of course, he settled for scoring Final Fantasy. I, uh... wow.


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I haven't played Last Story but I love the soundtrack.

That's a common theme for me, I've noticed.


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Redbeard the Scruffy wrote:
Well, it WAS working until the core team left to form Mistwalker and started Last Story (which is a hilarious title given it's by the creators of FF), and Nobuo left to form his own production company, and now all they do is repaint their old games and release them again.

And the Chrono/Xeno team left and formed Monolith.

Which, since Squeenix still owns the right to the Chrono series name, probably means we're either never getting a third game or if it comes out it'll be even worse than Cross.

At least Xenoblade was awesome, even if it has near-nothing to do with Xenogears. Haven't seen enough of Chronicles X yet to judge it, but it looks very nice and I have high hopes, but it'll likely be a while before I can pick it up.


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I don't think it was settling so much as finding his true calling.

His works have been played by the London Philharmonic (or was it the NY? Some prestigious symphony in either case), he's touted as one of the best composers of the late 20 century, and he's been a rock star twice over with The Black Mages (whom I adore) and Earthbound Papas (who I think fall short of TBM, but are still good), selling out the stadium of just about every show they do.

I don't think he's complaining.

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