I have a friend who, in most games, tends to focus on perception-based characters. Usually possessing the ability to be aware of more than anyone else, be it from psionic level clairsentience, animal senses, supernatural senses, etc, and usually falls into a Scout type category.
In Anima, this is easy, through the Ranger character with a touch of Psionic ability. In 4e, he plays a Warden with all Utility spells being sensory in nature. In Pathfinder, we're having a really hard time building his character (mostly because we're new to the game and there's so much to take in, not because there's a lack of such a character).
Right now we're talking about an Elven Cleric (Knowledge as his primary domain). With the Religious "Eyes and Ears of the City" trait to get him Perception as a class ability. The problem is... he's a priest. Not a Ranger or some other sensory themed character. We feel like we must be missing something (and house rules aren't allowed, though 3rd party books are if the GM feels it's a balanced addition).
So, the big question... are we missing something? Is there a better "scout/ranger" feel character that excels in sensory possibilities, theme-wise and mechanics-wise? I told him, he's an Elf. It's not like he has to wear robes, swing incense, go bald and pray every hour... it's just how you play. However, I can empathize with his discomfort of the character...
Er... Whats wrong with the Ranger class specifically?
+1 - Is there some reason your friend is avoiding the Ranger class? As a character build he can perhaps focus down the road on the Prestige Class Arcane Archer.
Whats wrong with the Ranger class specifically?
I think I answered this question with 75% of my post, but to reiterate...
Because it lacks the most important aspect, superior sensory capabilities. Great at Stealth, Ok at fighting, but the only bonus he gets in anyway towards sensory is a +2 Perception when he's in 1 of many domains. He might be able to go Beast Master and through Empathy gain the vision of a Hawk at 6th level, but that's kinda stretching it (especially since you're blind while you do it).
How about taking the Alertness and Skill Focus (perception) feats down the road? This alone will give him +5 on perception checks up to 10th level and +10 from then on. If he´s an elf he already has Keen Senses, so taking the feat Sharp Senses would be another boost to perception.
[EDIT]Since he already has the knowledge domain, maybe his second domain could be Exploration (it´s a travel subdomain), it fits thematically and mechanically, I believe.
Wizard. The best info gathering spells are arcane, int based caster means more skill points. Diviner is pretty awesome, or if he wants to get more physical Transmuter. If he wants a melee component, aim for eldritch knight prestige class, or go Magus and grab the good divination spells through the expanded spell list arcana.
Alternatively, druid with animal companion geared towards scouting.
Whats wrong with the Ranger class specifically?I think I answered this question with 75% of my post, but to reiterate...
Because it lacks the most important aspect, superior sensory capabilities. Great at Stealth, Ok at fighting, but the only bonus he gets in anyway towards sensory is a +2 Perception when he's in 1 of many domains. He might be able to go Beast Master and through Empathy gain the vision of a Hawk at 6th level, but that's kinda stretching it (especially since you're blind while you do it).
How about taking the Alertness and Skill Focus (perception) feats down the road? This alone will give him +5 on perception checks up to 10th level and +10 from then on. If he´s an elf he already has Keen Senses, so taking the feat Sharp Senses would be another boost to perception.
+1
I guess I'm failing to see specifically what your friend is looking for? He wants magical enhancements to perception as part of his base class?
I'd say, again, look at the Ranger. If you start with an Elven Ranger, you are looking at a PC with (hopefully) a solid stat in Wis, which will up their natural perception, a racial +2, and the ability to cast spells like Keen Senses, and Eagle Eye. From where I'm coming from, if you are looking for a perception based scout character you should be looking at Ranger and nowhere else. Of course that's just my humble opinion.
How about taking the Alertness and Skill Focus (perception) feats down the road? This alone will give him +5 on perception checks up to 10th level and +10 from then on. If he´s an elf he already has Keen Senses, so taking the feat Sharp Senses would be another boost to perception.
[EDIT]Since he already has the knowledge domain, maybe his second domain could be Exploration (it´s a travel subdomain), it fits thematically and mechanically, I believe.
Nice. We're still "new", and are just recently even aware of the APG (mostly using the PRD in paizo right now, until our amazon order arrives). The Exploration Domain is a nice idea. The Alertness is on his list, he took Skill Focus: Perception as his 1st level feat.
Wizard. The best info gathering spells are arcane, int based caster means more skill points. Diviner is pretty awesome, or if he wants to get more physical Transmuter. If he wants a melee component, aim for eldritch knight prestige class, or go Magus and grab the good divination spells through the expanded spell list arcana.
Alternatively, druid with animal companion geared towards scouting.
Nice ideas, but I think he'll have the same mention... "mage" while possibly awesome for the spells of divination, is still a "mage". :P We did look at both the Wizard and Sorcerer (no really thematic bloodlines), but end result was a no, not just because it's a mage, but because the Cleric seemed to have more detection spells (unless there are APG spells I'm unaware of yet). Still, I look forward to number crunching those ideas a bit. ;)
I guess I'm failing to see specifically what your friend is looking for? He wants magical enhancements to perception as part of his base class?
I'd say, again, look at the Ranger. If you start with an Elven Ranger, you are looking at a PC with (hopefully) a solid stat in Wis, which will up their natural perception, a racial +2, and the ability to cast spells like Keen Senses, and Eagle Eye. From where I'm coming from, if you are looking for a perception based scout character you should be looking at Ranger and nowhere else. Of course that's just my humble opinion.
Yes, "magical enhancements to perception as part of his base class" (though, perception as a wider field than just the skill, of course).
However, you point out some nice things. We only looked at the Ranger spells in the core book, he's falling in love with the APG spells of Bloodhound and Keen Senses as I type. I think you've made a nice convert. These are much more the types of spells we expected to see when we looked in the core book.
An oracle of nature with clouded vision will eventually give him permanent 15 blindsight, 30' blindsense, 60' darkvision at the cost of no vision outside 60'. Can't beat that for local omniscience.
Then use the speak with animals discovery combined with handle animal skill to have a bunch of domesticated trained spies that can scream their scouting to his ears only, them and a bonded mount will add Scent to his detection arsenal. Telepathic bond is pretty groovy too for sharing his intel even with limitted rounds. 2 more skill points per level and functionally more uses of his favorite divine divinations. Nature's whispers cha to ac fluff is that his perception is so great that it helps him dodge attacks.
An oracle of nature with clouded vision will eventually give him permanent 15 blindsight, 30' blindsense, 60' darkvision at the cost of no vision outside 60'. Can't beat that for local omniscience.
Then use the speak with animals discovery combined with handle animal skill to have a bunch of domesticated trained spies that can scream their scouting to his ears only, them and a bonded mount will add Scent to his detection arsenal. Telepathic bond is pretty groovy too for sharing his intel even with limitted rounds. 2 more skill points per level and functionally more uses of his favorite divine divinations. Nature's whispers cha to ac fluff is that his perception is so great that it helps him dodge attacks.
Yeah, before the cleric, he was contemplating the Oracle. But going nearly blind for the first few levels, just to get that 15th level bonus was too much. That class really depend on you making it to higher levels to get your payback, and even that's not worth it (craft wonderous items/forge ring will get you better/faster without the penalties...)
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I guess I'm failing to see specifically what your friend is looking for? He wants magical enhancements to perception as part of his base class?
I'd say, again, look at the Ranger. If you start with an Elven Ranger, you are looking at a PC with (hopefully) a solid stat in Wis, which will up their natural perception, a racial +2, and the ability to cast spells like Keen Senses, and Eagle Eye. From where I'm coming from, if you are looking for a perception based scout character you should be looking at Ranger and nowhere else. Of course that's just my humble opinion.
Yes, "magical enhancements to perception as part of his base class" (though, perception as a wider field than just the skill, of course).
However, you point out some nice things. We only looked at the Ranger spells in the core book, he's falling in love with the APG spells of Bloodhound and Keen Senses as I type. I think you've made a nice convert. These are much more the types of spells we expected to see when we looked in the core book.
For a non-magical version of the same character, a ranger using the skirmisher archetype can take the skill sage and uncanny senses hunter's tricks and become utterly terrifying with regard to Perception checks, especially for a character who is going to want to bump his/her Wisdom anyway. (Protip: skill sage and uncanny senses can be combined on the same roll if you really, really want to.)
If you're sticking with spells, though, spirit ranger is an excellent choice, thanks to the divinations it gets, plus the ability to slightly expand your spellcasting.
If you are using the APG I think the Inquisitor fits the bill of what you are looking for...
Skill-heavy class with perception, stealth, and survival as class skills
Tracking
Many spells that enhance stealth/scouting (sift, perceive cues, bloodhound, invisibility, darkvision)
Wisdom as a prime attribute
Access to a domain, so you can choose a "scouty" one (Feather (Animal) gives 1/2 level to perception)
A Ranger built with the APG will rock for this. The Eagle Eye feat, some of the spells....heck, your Favored Terrain gives you a Perception bonus, or if you dislike that, then take the Infiltrator archetype for access to Low-light or Darkvision. Or the Skirmisher archetype, using Uncanny Senses for a +10 bonus to Perception as an Immediate action, and the Skill Sage trick will let you get a reroll for a Free Action. Or a Shapeshifter archetype with Form of the Eagle.
If you don't want to give up the spells, there are quite a few that can enhance the Ranger's senses: Aspect of the Falcon, Eagle Eye...of course the aforementioned Bloodhound and Keen Senses. I'm really not sure if it's possible to come up with a better Scout than the possibilities provided by the Ranger using the APG.
Now that I look at the ranger archetypes from the APG, I'm surprised there isn't a "scout" archetype with a focus on more perception abilities. A new archetype that could stack with Skirmisher would be pretty cool.
Well, we finished his character, he went with an Elven Ranger Infiltrator (Undead) with the Eagle Eye Feat. He's very happy with the character, definitely feels a LOT more like a Scout than trying to build without the APG. Thanks for all the help. :)
Well, we finished his character, he went with an Elven Ranger Infiltrator (Undead) with the Eagle Eye Feat. He's very happy with the character, definitely feels a LOT more like a Scout than trying to build without the APG. Thanks for all the help. :)
thanks for the feedback, always nice to know how it turns out ;)