Re: Sajan
Anyone who thinks you have to take steroids to look like that has never seen Bruce Lee (you know, the REAL "iconic monk") with his shirt off.
Um, Bruce Lee almost certainly took steroids and died when he was only 32 (supposedly due to bad reaction to medication)...In Lee's defense, it was legal back then.
Re: Seoni
Anyone who thinks you need plastic surgery to look like Seoni needs to go to the beach sometime. Or hell, any university in the spring.
Cause there are no boob jobs at the beach or in universities?
Re: Fantasy Art
The game is in part an attempt to recreate pulp-era fiction like Conan and Ffafhrd & Grey Mouser et. al. You can't turn over a rock without finding a lady that looks like cheesecake in these stories. If we were discussing a superhero game, would people still be complaining about spandex and capes (and cheesecake)? It's part of the genre, and if you are SO offended, pick a different genre to play.
If this is in reference to my posts, I'm not offended. I'm saying the art is in poor taste.
You do realize that:
1) It's possible for a woman to have a very good body and actually like to show that off without being a stripper, and
2) It's possible for a man to be very muscular without doing steroids.Of course I realize that, but that's not the imagery Paizo is projecting IMO.
You accused a martial artist of being on steroids for being muscular - not overly muscular, just muscular. The abundance of scantily clad women in men's, I mean gaming fantasy art is an obvious observation, but otherwise your off the deep end.
Just a few quick points:
Re: Sajan
Anyone who thinks you have to take steroids to look like that has never seen Bruce Lee (you know, the REAL "iconic monk") with his shirt off.
Which is literally impossible if you have ever seen a Bruce Lee movie. The only time he didn't rip his shirt off in order to beat some one into next week was the Green Hornet.
First off, that's a photo, not art.
So would painting a piece of art to look like that woman be demeaning and degrading? Or is it just when she's in an RPG book?
Second, as I said before, context is an important consideration. In the context of bodybuilding, the photo is fine. Now, if you plunked that photo into one of your core rulebooks without any good reason for it, I don't think I would call it demeaning & degrading, but I would say it's cheesy and condescending.
Okay, so when is it "a good reason" for an RPG book to include a scantily-clad (armorless) spellcaster whose magic partly derives from how attractive he or she is? Never?
Okay, so when is it "a good reason" for an RPG book to include a scantily-clad (armorless) spellcaster whose magic partly derives from how attractive he or she is? Never?
*winces at the inevitable ensuing Charisma vs. attractiveness debate*
So Fnipernackle, where did you see your thread going before the first response happened?
It has the stink of Japanimation and steers away from realism.Oh the humanity.
BTW Paizo, long elf ears for life. <3
Okay, so when is it "a good reason" for an RPG book to include a scantily-clad (armorless) spellcaster whose magic partly derives from how attractive he or she is? Never?*winces at the inevitable ensuing Charisma vs. attractiveness debate*
That may be a debate worth having, but not right now. I think we've established that Seoni is supposed to be excellent at all aspects of charisma in part due to her attractiveness. I've seen plenty of women get what they want due to their looks. It's not at all a bad thing to make a character who does the same. Sean and the other Paizo folks are not saying charisma equals looks alone.
|
Re: Sajan
Anyone who thinks you have to take steroids to look like that has never seen Bruce Lee (you know, the REAL "iconic monk") with his shirt off.Um, Bruce Lee almost certainly took steroids and died when he was only 32 (supposedly due to bad reaction to medication)...In Lee's defense, it was legal back then.
Do you have some proof of this. That body was the result of a near religious workout regimen and your implications against a dead man are in poor taste (in my opinion).
Re: Seoni
Anyone who thinks you need plastic surgery to look like Seoni needs to go to the beach sometime. Or hell, any university in the spring.Cause there are no boob jobs at the beach or in universities?
Sure there may be some but not as many as you seem to be implying. That is expensive surgery and I am pretty sure the average college student an not afford it.
I personally know women who have amazing chests who are all natural.
Re: Fantasy Art
The game is in part an attempt to recreate pulp-era fiction like Conan and Ffafhrd & Grey Mouser et. al. You can't turn over a rock without finding a lady that looks like cheesecake in these stories. If we were discussing a superhero game, would people still be complaining about spandex and capes (and cheesecake)? It's part of the genre, and if you are SO offended, pick a different genre to play.If this is in reference to my posts, I'm not offended. I'm saying the art is in poor taste.
A: you are acting offended.
B: in poor taste in you opinion
C: allow me to put this in a different light. I view Seoni as attractive and intelligent. I view her choice of very little covering and thoughtful and intentional. She knows the effect she has one men, and some women, and she uses it. She does not need traditional protections, she has MAGIC.
Which is literally impossible if you have ever seen a Bruce Lee movie. The only time he didn't rip his shirt off in order to beat some one into next week was the Green Hornet.
Just a few quick points:
Re: Sajan
Anyone who thinks you have to take steroids to look like that has never seen Bruce Lee (you know, the REAL "iconic monk") with his shirt off.
Yeah, if I had a chest like that, I would probably find every excuse to rip my shirt off too.
Then again, were I a woman with a chest like Seoni's, I would probably do the same....
Just wanted to say thanks to the Paizo staff for all of the excellent artwork that you put into your book. My best friend bought all of the past adventure paths and all of the artwork looks amazing. Keep up the good work.I hate to say it, but I think the worst part of Paizo products is their art. It has the stink of Japanimation and steers away from realism.
Ignoring the style, the weapons incorporated in their artwork are so bulky and over-the-top that they are simply ridiculous caricatures of what real medieval weaponry would look like.
In addition, the races look absurd. Elves have ears the size of bunny rabbits, gnomes and halflings look like children rather than different races, and characters are fraught with steroid-style physiques. Perhaps the most insulting about the artwork is the fact that so many female drawings wear extremely revealing outfits together with Dolly Parton-sized fake boobs - I swear the artists need to stop looking at porn for models of their female characters. I would wager that fact almost single-handedly drives 90% of women from taking an in-depth look at the game.
It's not that the artists aren't skilled. They are. It's just that they have very, very poor taste.
How bout a little realism in your artwork, Paizo?
Example: About half of the drawings on the right side of this page demonstrate what I'm talking about:
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog#v5748dyo5lbw6
Amiri, the Barbarian - WTF is that sword! The Rock couldn't even lift that effing thing.
Alahazra, the Oracle/Seoni, the Sorcerer - Here's your classic porn star NPCs. This makes me wonder when Paizo is going to release the Player's Guide to Flouting Your Breast Augmentation...
Lini, the Druid - Are you serious? I would laugh if that thing tried to attack me.
Lem, the Bard - Look, how did a five-year old make it as a bard? Oh wait, that's supposed to be a halfling, I think...
Sajan, the Monk - It's not steroids - he just got a vitamin B-12 shot.
Your...
Realism? LOLZ!
So Fnipernackle, where did you see your thread going before the first response happened?
It has the stink of Japanimation and steers away from realism.Oh the humanity.
BTW Paizo, long elf ears for life. <3
Along with Heymitch, I love the pool of artists Paizo pulls form, both the realistic and the stylized. WAR, Andrew Hou, Belisle, Kevin Yan, Carolina Eade, Steve Prescott, Arnold Tsang, Eva Wildemann, and all the rest.
And to show that there's no clean divide some may make it out to seem, I also love artists from older editions like Larry Elmore, Tony Freaking DiTerlizzi, Gerald Brom, Keith Parkinson, Todd Lockwood, and so on.
(was never an Erol Otus fan, but you don't see me calling his art style badwrong and complaining that his work isn't made to my specific tastes)
For a while I was actually getting a bit worried that super-stylized art was slipping out of favor with the art department, but there's one artist's work I've seen popping up that definitely veers in that direction. Just a comfort to see, since variety is the spice of life. :)
Sorry mikaze, I didn't see this post.
I was just telling Paizo that I liked their artwork is all. But everytime I post something looking for one thing, it seems everyone has to jump in and throw around the negative version of it.
So, I will give the Paizo community my services. If there is a topic you have and want to have a heated debate over it, let me know. Ill go start the thread
Why is it that everytime I start an innocent thread it becomes a war zone? Am I cursed?
Anyone who thinks you need plastic surgery to look like Seoni needs to go to the beach sometime. Or hell, any university in the spring.
Re: Charisma
Part of "charisma" is the ability to attract and hold attention. If an individual is in the top 0.5% of the most charismatic in the world, I see nothing wrong with some not-inconsequential percentage of that appeal being sexual in nature. You may be "enlightened" to gender sensibilities, but that won't stop heads from turning when a gorgeous person walks down the street.
I think for those at the very top it's hard not to have sex appeal. I mean they're the very best, the ones with the highest cha scores. Stands to reason they achieve that by being outstanding in all things charisma.
C: allow me to put this in a different light. I view Seoni as attractive and intelligent. I view her choice of very little covering and thoughtful and intentional. She knows the effect she has one men, and some women, and she uses it. She does not need traditional protections, she has MAGIC.
This. Point being, Seoni is not ca case of Bikini Chainmail. Her outfit is in character.
If every female character was like that, I could understand. But It does not seem to me that, say, Seelah is the same.
If Seoni wore any more clothing, we wouldn't be able to see her wicked tattoos!
And since as a Varisian, they're part of her power, she's probably be diminished by extra clothes.
And since as a Varisian, they're part of her power, she's probably be diminished by extra clothes.If Seoni wore any more clothing, we wouldn't be able to see her wicked tattoos!
Pah! I totally knew that!
She does not need traditional protections, she has MAGIC.
Not to mention that armour interferes with most arcanists' spellcasting...
Beyond that, there's no real difference between three layers of clothing and zero when you go up against swords and the like. The one layer of arcane protection (or several, even) work much better, and they don't let you look like Kenny or canned food. (And look what keeps happening to Kenny).
Temperature is no concern for adventurers, either.
In fact, if it weren't for magic items, she could walk around naked and have better protection than your average city guardsman.
And since most magic items aren't suits or dresses, she could go effectively naked (just wearing shoes and belts and bracers and the like).
Yes, I think the next "pure" arcanist I'll play will be wearing his birthday suit all the time. I'm torn between sorcerer and wizard (and maybe witch) for that. The effects would be different, but they'd definitely be amusing.
I find oversized breasts and chainmail bikinis just silly, infantile. But I´m really annoyed about oversized elven ears and swords the size of a mobile crane. It looks so... WoW. I really don´t like that part of the Paizo artworks.
On the other hand Paizo has produced some of the best looking books ever. The Bestiary 1 and 2, The "Books of the Damned" and so on look awesome.
Um, Bruce Lee almost certainly took steroids and died when he was only 32 (supposedly due to bad reaction to medication)...In Lee's defense, it was legal back then.
Re: Sajan
Anyone who thinks you have to take steroids to look like that has never seen Bruce Lee (you know, the REAL "iconic monk") with his shirt off.
You have any proof whatsoever to back up this steroid claim, or just your innate knowledge that such physiques are impossible without them?
And that overdose was reported to be sedatives mixed with Mary Jane, certainly not steroids.
Cause there are no boob jobs at the beach or in universities?Re: Seoni
Anyone who thinks you need plastic surgery to look like Seoni needs to go to the beach sometime. Or hell, any university in the spring.
Willfull ignorance is an ugly thing.
Obviously because you don't need money or surgery to have a body like Seoni's, or any of the hundreds of examples of scantily clad women in fantasy art from the past 80 years or so.
Re: Fantasy Art
The game is in part an attempt to recreate pulp-era fiction like Conan and Ffafhrd & Grey Mouser et. al. You can't turn over a rock without finding a lady that looks like cheesecake in these stories. If we were discussing a superhero game, would people still be complaining about spandex and capes (and cheesecake)? It's part of the genre, and if you are SO offended, pick a different genre to play.
If this is in reference to my posts, I'm not offended. I'm saying the art is in poor taste.
It appears to me that your definition of "poor taste" matches a lot of other people's definition of "attractive". Just because you have a hate-on for the modern definition of "perfect" physical beauty doesn't mean it's in bad taste, nor degrading, nor offensive. Your are welcome to your opinion, but you are in the minority opinion in this particular target demographic, and complaining about it in hopes of changing the art to suit your (minority) tastes and gentle sensibilities is essentially trying to force your sense of taste where it's not wanted or needed.
I find oversized breasts and chainmail bikinis just silly, infantile.
Define "oversized" in this context.
But I´m really annoyed about oversized elven ears
Again.
I mean, they're elven ears. That's how big elven ears are. How are they oversized?
Well, maybe when humans look for big "ears", elves look for big ears (literally), and Merisiel is as "overendowed" as Seoni in her own way.
It would make sense for the elves, too, to walk around with their naughty bits exposed. Elves aren't very reserved.
swords the size of a mobile crane. It looks so... WoW.
The only instance I've seen that in is Amiri, and there's a reason for her giant sword (because it's quite literally a giant sword).
I really don´t like that part of the Paizo artworks.On the other hand Paizo has produced some of the best looking books ever. The Bestiary 1 and 2, The "Books of the Damned" and so on look awesome.
The cover of Books of the Damned 2 is sexist!!! ;-)
Okay, so when is it "a good reason" for an RPG book to include a scantily-clad (armorless) spellcaster whose magic partly derives from how attractive he or she is? Never?
Never seems good for that part.
First off, that's a photo, not art.
So would painting a piece of art to look like that woman be demeaning and degrading? Or is it just when she's in an RPG book?
"Demeaning" and "degrading" were my wife's adjectives, not mine. I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with usage of the adjectives, so I'm going to stick with my adjectives.
If you gratuitously plunked such an image (i.e. some bikini-clad woman) into a RPG rulebook, I would say it's tasteless and condescending. Wouldn't you agree?
Second, as I said before, context is an important consideration. In the context of bodybuilding, the photo is fine. Now, if you plunked that photo into one of your core rulebooks without any good reason for it, I don't think I would call it demeaning & degrading, but I would say it's cheesy and condescending.
Okay, so when is it "a good reason" for an RPG book to include a scantily-clad (armorless) spellcaster whose magic partly derives from how attractive he or she is? Never?
Without derailing, I object to the idea that a charismatic woman has to be a sex object. (And frankly, I don't even think Seoni is very attractive)
That said, I would say a woman "never" has to be scantily-clad in an RPG rulebook (I can see it in a bestiary...the image of the Dryad in the first bestiary, for example, I think is well-done and scantily-clad). In the rulebook context, it's almost always gratuitous.
Even ignoring context, I'm not sure why it's so hard to draw a beautiful woman who doesn't look like a stripper.
|
|
Leper27, I guess my question is ... does it REALLY bother you that much or is this more of a thought exercise on your part?
I mean, on an intellectual level, I can see your point ... a little bit, at least. But the reality is that most people have no problem with the art (and in fact LIKE it a lot).
I'm a professional graphic designer and a freelance illustrator and I have NO problem with the art in Paizo's products (it's some of the best in the industry, as far as I'm concerned).
Attractive woman in full plate armor, attractive woman in a revealing outfit ... Good art is good art ...
My only problem with the Seoni artwork is that she doesn't look muck like what I understand a Varisian woman should look like.
Without derailing, I object to the idea that a charismatic woman has to be a sex object. (And frankly, I don't even think Seoni is very attractive)
I also do not think Seoni is very attractive.
I will point out that Seelah is a paladin, and therefor a very charismatic woman who is not a sex object.
Without derailing, I object to the idea that a charismatic woman has to be a sex object. (And frankly, I don't even think Seoni is very attractive)I also do not think Seoni is very attractive.
I will point out that Seelah is a paladin, and therefor a very charismatic woman who is not a sex object.
I think Seelah would look amazing if she put time and effort into her hair and dress- usually she is girded for war, and has no time for such frivolities.
Leper27, I guess my question is ... does it REALLY bother you that much or is this more of a thought exercise on your part?
It bothers me a little.
I would agree that Paizo's art is among the best in the industry, but I would also conjecture that this problem is systemic to the whole fantasy-art industry. Of course, I admit I'm no connoisseur - you surely have more expertise than I. I'm just a guy callin' it as I see it, and the way I see it, I think Paizo's art would be much more respectable if the people weren't so fake looking.
As a side note, if I were going to point to the BEST fantasy art that I've seen, I would go looking through some Magic the Gathering cards. I can't speak about today's MtG, but MtG had amazing art back in the day.
That said, I would say a woman "never" has to be scantily-clad in an RPG rulebook (I can see it in a bestiary...the image of the Dryad in the first bestiary, for example, I think is well-done and scantily-clad). In the rulebook context, it's almost always gratuitous.
You're dodging the question. I didn't ask if she had to be scantily clad. I asked, [your words, not mine]
It seems you're implying that it's never a good reason for a Charisma-based caster to be depicted as scantily-clad. Which makes me wonder if it is *ever* appropriate to show *any* character (male or female, any class) as scantily clad. Sajan looks like a man-stripper? The shot of the iconics in the public bath is inappropriate?
Even ignoring context, I'm not sure why it's so hard to draw a beautiful woman who doesn't look like a stripper.
And I'm not sure why it's hard to not classify a woman's profession by her appearance. Do you assume that all tan, blonde, curvy, voluptuous women are strippers? Or do you just assume that when they dress revealingly? At the beach are you mentally cataloguing women as stripper, stripper, housewife, stripper, librarian, stripper? There are many women in America who look like Seoni, and they're not hookers, strippers, or porn stars.
All of Paizo's female iconics are attractive in different ways, so clearly it's not hard to draw them so they don't look like strippers (only 1/9 female iconics are "drawn like strippers," according to your definition). So I think you're overgeneralizing when you complain "I'm not sure why it's so hard" to draw them as non-strippers.
Would you still say Seoni looks like a stripper if she were dressed like this? Does this make Harsk look like a stripper?
You want to talk bad art in Pathfinder...
CARD ITEMS FOR WEAPONS...C'MON the stupid Pilum isn't even a PILUM!
FAIL!
There's my critique on any bad art in Pathfinder...
WAR's art is DYNAMIC, it moves, it's active, much better than the passive art of Elmore. I'm still a fan of Elmore, but WAR's dynamic art is amazing.
|
Okay, so when is it "a good reason" for an RPG book to include a scantily-clad (armorless) spellcaster whose magic partly derives from how attractive he or she is? Never?Why on earth would a woman (attractive or not) go off into the wilds, exposing herself to harsh weather and even more dangerous enemies be scantily clad? Seriously it makes absolutely no sense when put in the context of the game and thus is a weak justification.
Just say this, most rpg players are males, and probably unmarried young males, so it appeals to the target demographic. Additionally there is a tradition of sorts for this type of art. Basically just say its part of the business without trying to come up with nonsensical reasons.
Also as a company, if you desire, you can make sure you balance this, which I think was done with that paladin chick. She looks like she is ready for battle not a pageant
Because she's a Sorcerer, and between Endure Elements (harsh weather, goodbye) and Teleport (short of dimensional anchor, nothing stops her from returning to the cozy Lavender Unicorn inn in an instant) she doesn't give a flying frak about how she looks the part.
Applying real world realism to high magic fantasy games does. not. work.
Okay, so when is it "a good reason" for an RPG book to include a scantily-clad (armorless) spellcaster whose magic partly derives from how attractive he or she is? Never?Why on earth would a woman (attractive or not) go off into the wilds, exposing herself to harsh weather and even more dangerous enemies be scantily clad? Seriously it makes absolutely no sense when put in the context of the game and thus is a weak justification.
Endure elements is a 1st-level spell. It protects you from extremes of cold and heat.
Mage armor is a 1st-level spell. It protects you almost as well as chainmail, and doesn't interfere with arcane spellcasting.She can't wear armor without risking ruining her spells. And in the context of her character history, her tattoos augment her power, so covering them probably interferes with her magic.
There are good reasons why she dresses the way she does, instead of dressing like Seelah or even Kyra.
Also as a company, if you desire, you can make sure you balance this, which I think was done with that paladin chick. She looks like she is ready for battle not a pageant
It amuses me that you're saying Seoni's art is ridiculous and designed solely to appeal to young males, and then refer to Seelah as a "chick." :p
Re: Sajan
Anyone who thinks you have to take steroids to look like that has never seen Bruce Lee (you know, the REAL "iconic monk") with his shirt off.
Um, Bruce Lee almost certainly took steroids and died when he was only 32 (supposedly due to bad reaction to medication)...In Lee's defense, it was legal back then.
Do you have some proof of this. That body was the result of a near religious workout regimen and your implications against a dead man are in poor taste (in my opinion).
Lol, I didn't even bring up Bruce Lee! So which is it - you want proof or do you want to respect the memory of a dead man?
|
|
It worked in lord of the rings, it works in Glen Cook's novels.Okay, so when is it "a good reason" for an RPG book to include a scantily-clad (armorless) spellcaster whose magic partly derives from how attractive he or she is? Never?Why on earth would a woman (attractive or not) go off into the wilds, exposing herself to harsh weather and even more dangerous enemies be scantily clad? Seriously it makes absolutely no sense when put in the context of the game and thus is a weak justification.
Just say this, most rpg players are males, and probably unmarried young males, so it appeals to the target demographic. Additionally there is a tradition of sorts for this type of art. Basically just say its part of the business without trying to come up with nonsensical reasons.
Also as a company, if you desire, you can make sure you balance this, which I think was done with that paladin chick. She looks like she is ready for battle not a pageant
Because she's a Sorcerer, and between Endure Elements and Teleport she doesn't give a flying frak about how she looks the part.
Applying real world realism to high magic fantasy games does. not. work.
Neither is a game. The endure elements/'port point still stands.
It worked in lord of the rings, it works in Glen Cook's novels.
LOTR isn't high fantasy, at least not in the way that D&D and Pathfinder are high fantasy. Gandalf isn't throwing fireballs or teleporting, treating injuries is very difficult, a single troll is a difficult challenge for a group of nine adventurers, and so on.
|
|
It worked in lord of the rings, it works in Glen Cook's novels.LOTR isn't high fantasy, at least not in the way that D&D and Pathfinder are high fantasy. Gandalf isn't throwing fireballs or teleporting, treating injuries is very difficult, a single troll is a difficult challenge for a group of nine adventurers, and so on.
Also, neither endure elements nor teleport exist in LotR, because it would play out quite differently if they did :)
It amuses me that you're saying Seoni's art is ridiculous and designed solely to appeal to young males, and then refer to Seelah as a "chick." :p
Hehe. Me like you, Sean. You are perspicacious, funny, and go well with milk. :p
Harsk is a sexy beast and needs to be erased from the Pathfinder universe. I demand he and his filthy image be stricken from the page. Now!
I volunteer my services in this regard, Paizo. I will carry my crayon box from each gaming hub to the next, scribbling away that hairy disgrace.
When all is said and done, the world will be a better place. Hurrah!
|
|
Um, Bruce Lee almost certainly took steroids and died when he was only 32 (supposedly due to bad reaction to medication)...In Lee's defense, it was legal back then.
Do you have some proof of this. That body was the result of a near religious workout regimen and your implications against a dead man are in poor taste (in my opinion).
Lol, I didn't even bring up Bruce Lee! So which is it - you want proof or do you want to respect the memory of a dead man?
Yeah, I'm kind of a Bruce Lee fan and I found the "Um, Bruce Lee almost certainly took steroids" comment in very poor taste AND almost certainly not true.
|
|
Okay, so when is it "a good reason" for an RPG book to include a scantily-clad (armorless) spellcaster whose magic partly derives from how attractive he or she is? Never?Why on earth would a woman (attractive or not) go off into the wilds, exposing herself to harsh weather and even more dangerous enemies be scantily clad? Seriously it makes absolutely no sense when put in the context of the game and thus is a weak justification.Endure elements is a 1st-level spell. It protects you from extremes of cold and heat.
Mage armor is a 1st-level spell. It protects you almost as well as chainmail, and doesn't interfere with arcane spellcasting.She can't wear armor without risking ruining her spells. And in the context of her character history, her tattoos augment her power, so covering them probably interferes with her magic.
There are good reasons why she dresses the way she does, instead of dressing like Seelah or even Kyra.
Also as a company, if you desire, you can make sure you balance this, which I think was done with that paladin chick. She looks like she is ready for battle not a pageantIt amuses me that you're saying Seoni's art is ridiculous and designed solely to appeal to young males, and then refer to Seelah as a "chick." :pCome on now. You know these reasons are crap. I'm not saying she would be bundled up like an Eskimo, I'm just saying that the deep cut v neck dress and midriff shot (barbarian) are clearly based on a desire on behalf of the artist and company to have a certain level of sex appeal and not some in game justification. And I am ok with this, I get it. I don't prefer it but as a business person I understand it. I just don't like all of the BS reasons being floated around. People should say be comfortable saying I like the art because she is hot and has big boobs.
Now as I said, as a father its has an affect but at the same time would my daughter really want to play pathfinder with me? Probably not so I don't think Paizo should be too concerned.
as for using chick, man I am not some pc nut trying to change the world or anything.
So, you're a concerned parent who doesn't mind calling women "chicks". Mmmmkay.
Come on now. You know these reasons are crap. I'm not saying she would be bundled up like an Eskimo, I'm just saying that the deep cut v neck dress and midriff shot (barbarian) are clearly based on a desire on behalf of the artist and company to have a certain level of sex appeal and not some in game justification. And I am ok with this, I get it. I don't prefer it but as a business person I understand it. I just don't like all of the BS reasons being floated around. People should say be comfortable saying I like the art because she is hot and has big boobs.Now as I said, as a father...
Well, then for heaven's sake don't ever allow your daughter to see anything in national geographic, as real "barbarians" often wear less than Amiri.
Maybe that magazine is just promoting sales and injecting some sex appeal?
Also, neither endure elements nor teleport exist in LotR, because it would play out quite differently if they did :)It worked in lord of the rings, it works in Glen Cook's novels.LOTR isn't high fantasy, at least not in the way that D&D and Pathfinder are high fantasy. Gandalf isn't throwing fireballs or teleporting, treating injuries is very difficult, a single troll is a difficult challenge for a group of nine adventurers, and so on.
Gandalf - "Thats the one ring Frodo. It must be destroyed in the fires of Mount Doom. *BLOOP* "Ok, we are here. Toss it in."
Ya I get that. I'm just showing examples of fantasy type things in which having a certain amount of realism does in fact work. The statement I was responding to was definitive (it does not work). If instead it had said there are many types of fantasy portrayals some more realistic than others I would not have taken issue. But you cannot not profoundly state that something absolutely does not work and then rely on some differentiations about degrees of fantasy. At least not if you want to be taken seriously.
I suggest you to take a look to the background of the CHARACTER Seoni.
My point is that D&D and Pathfinder aren't trying to model LOTR. If they did, there would be no clerics, only about ten kinds of monsters, the only mages are angels or those who make pacts with fallen angels, and no PCs can create magic items.
Gandalf - "Thats the one ring Frodo. It must be destroyed in the fires of Mount Doom. *BLOOP* "Ok, we are here. Toss it in."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoSJKQmloVg