It'd be like that scene with the steamroller in Austin Powers...
2) imagine a chasing scene.
Yeah, something like that :)
Damn, I wan use half a dozen of these next session.
It'd be like that scene with the steamroller in Austin Powers...
2) imagine a chasing scene.
Yeah something like that :)
Damn, I want to use half a dozen of these (the slugs, not the steamroller) in a couple of sessions.
Just popping in to say:
2) Yes, there is cheesecake in Pathfinder. Seoni is cheesecake. So are Seltyiel and Sajan. If showing half-naked beautiful people is wrong, I don't want to be right. But I *do* think it's important that we offer a range of options, which is why we also have NON-cheesecake iconics, such as Kyra (who would punch you in the face if you offered her Mardis Gras beads) and Imrijka (who's a bruiser covered mostly in gear, for whom her sex appeal is the last weapon she'd think to use). And while we're at it, we've also attempted to steer away from the old-school fantasy standard of "all heroes are straight white folks," so that players can choose from iconic art for light- and dark-skinned characters, butch and fem characters of both genders, non-human characters, etc. And really, they're all pretty good-looking, depending on what type you're attracted to.
You're right about Kyra - she deserves mention as a character that was well-done. I disagree with the implication that she's flat-chested (you see her curves through her robes!), but regardless, I agree she's not "cheesecake." (in fact, she's just about the polar opposite since she's nearly wearing a burka). Nor is she over-equipped with silly qualities or quantities of weapons.
And I don't have nearly as much of a problem with half-naked beautiful people as I do with fake half-naked beautiful people.
Example of well-done half-naked beautiful:
http://www.neogrognard.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Loviatar_DnD1.jpg
That's 1E Dieties and Demigods. That image is well-done and in-context half-naked beautiful.
OTOH, Seoni is just condescending IMO.
Just popping in to say:
And I don't have nearly as much of a problem with half-naked beautiful people as I do with fake half-naked beautiful people.
Example of well-done half-naked beautiful:
http://www.neogrognard.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Loviatar_DnD1.jpg
That's well-done and in-context half-naked beautiful.
OTOH, Seoni is just condescending IMO.
You wouldn't have a problem with scantily-clad if they were proportionately accurate? I find this odd; were the art more realistic, I believe I would take more offense. The closer to realism, the harsher the critic.
Beyond that, the art we are given is merely an example of a race (mostly the iconics). How are we to know if said example speaks for the whole? Perhaps Seoni does not represent the standard of her race? Perhaps we are generalizing the whole from a limited sample.
Which kindly allows me to use one of my favorite quotes (I love self-referential irony):
"Of course, everyone generalizes from one example. At least, I do."
For myself, Paizo has proven they are far more progressive than other media or entertainment, which I endorse and adore. I'd expound further upon this entire matter, but my soapbox is currently upended and holding minis, so....
I'm not a fan of the elven ears style, but generally art is one of the reasons I chose PF over 4e.
It's a magical world, if she can cast chain lightning, modify boobs spell is not a problem.
Seoni has a 20+ Charisma at level 10. That means she is in the top .5% of humanity on the attractiveness scale. She's twice as charismatic as someone with a 15 Cha, who is twice as Charismatic as someone with a 10 Cha. She literally is a superstar. And her magic is based on her Charisma. She has natural magical abilities and it is in her best interest to use her magic to augment and improve her appearance. She has no need for armor or weapons because she is protected by powerful magic.
Thus, there is a very good reason for the way she looks and dresses. She is one of the most impressive people in the world. Some people achieve the peak of physical attractiveness by working out 4 hours a day. Some achieve it with surgery. Some are naturally lucky. And some have magic. Seoni looks "unrealistic" because you have never met someone in real life who looks as good as or makes quite the impression that she does. She's one of those people who, if you saw her in real life, you would gawk at until your wife punched you in the stomach.
Yes, she has white hair and big boobs and a curvy figure. But she'd still be stunning if she were built like Marilyn Monroe (a little chubby), or Audrey Hepburn (a very skinny woman) or Lena Horne or Lucy Liu. Saying that the Charisma-based spellcaster is "condescending" just because she's presented as sexy is your opinion, not a fact. Hennet, the 3rd edition iconic sorcerer is bare-chested, well-muscled, and practically a leather-fetishist. Is he condescending, too? Or is it just the depiction of attractive women that's condescending?
(He says, quietly pointing out that his wife is a bikini-wearing figure bodybuilder who dressed as bare-midriff Amiri at Gen Con last year and is planning her next iconic costume as we speak....)
/retread of old arguments
Seoni has a 20+ Charisma at level 10. That means she is in the top .5% of humanity on the attractiveness scale.
This isn't helping anything.
over-equipped with silly qualities or quantities of weapons.Are your player characters not over-equipped with silly qualities and quantities of weapons?
Are they playing the same game I am?
Seoni has a 20+ Charisma at level 10. That means she is in the top .5% of humanity on the attractiveness scale.This isn't helping anything.
In your humble opinion.
Instead of addressing the same old tired argument that for some reason plagues every art discussion, since the original post was discussing Paizo's art quality in general, I'll chime in on that.
Paizo's art has been very consistently the best fantasy RPG art I've seen. Its very dynamic and has maintained its own feel. It feels like fantasy art, but it doesn't feel generic or like it could be mistaken for any other setting's art.
There are only two instances the spring to mind where Paizo's art has really let me down. One was the rather strange looking dire bear in the first Bestiary, and the other was the art in the last few installments of the Council of Thieves AP.
I disagree with the implication that she's flat-chested (you see her curves through her robes!)
I wasn't saying she was flat-chested--I was saying that she might punch you in the face if you asked her to show some skin. Actually, though, she'd probably just give you an extremely stern look and then ignore you. She's got bigger fish to fry...
Seoni has a 20+ Charisma at level 10. That means she is in the top .5% of humanity on the attractiveness scale...
I might buy that if I thought strippers represented the pinnacle of human charisma.
Hennet, the 3rd edition iconic sorcerer is bare-chested, well-muscled, and practically a leather-fetishist. Is he condescending, too? Or is it just the depiction of attractive women that's condescending?
I think I said before I'm not a fan of the roided-out males either. I would, however, opine that there is a little different standard between men and women. That is, I take the sexualization of women a little more seriously than the sexualization of men, and I suspect that's a pretty universal sentiment whether people want to admit it or not. Regardless, your art example is silly looking to me as well, albeit not as silly Seoni...
Let's just say that if I saw Hennet on the street, I probably would not be able to contain my sniggering. I.e. he's not an illustration that inspires me to play sorcerer in the slightest.
In all that I realized I forgot to say I love the art.
WAR is amazing.
WAR is amazing. That was worth repeating.
I think that giant slug in the Bestiary is my favorite illustration. The little guy running away, the slug's expression.
On the other hand, I have yet to see a Tarrasque illustration that doesn't look almost friendly to me. The yellow one in the 3rd edition MM looked pretty happy.
In your humble opinion.Seoni has a 20+ Charisma at level 10. That means she is in the top .5% of humanity on the attractiveness scale.This isn't helping anything.
Indeed it is my opinion that equating Charisma DIRECTLY to physical attractiveness and nothing else doesn't help the confusion about what Charisma is actually supposed to be.
I disagree with the implication that she's flat-chested (you see her curves through her robes!)I wasn't saying she was flat-chested--I was saying that she might punch you in the face if you asked her to show some skin. Actually, though, she'd probably just give you an extremely stern look and then ignore you. She's got bigger fish to fry...
Fair enough. Sorry for reading too much between the lines...
It's a magical world, if she can cast chain lightning, modify boobs spell is not a problem.
In the picture of her casting Chain Lightning, Seoni is wearing floss between her cheeks. It seems she has quite literally misplaced a large portion of her robe XD
None the less, the art was the deciding factor for me when choosing Pathfinder. The iconics are just awesome and I love Paizo's goblins. The cover of the Bestiary 1 is priceless.
I don't usually find "realism" and "realistic" to be useful in discussing art, but there are stylistic considerations. The styles obtaining now are not much to my taste, compared to the ones I grew up with (Easley and Elmore in the 80s and early 90s). Of course I realize it might simply be because the stuff you grow up with is always dear to your heart, but if you compare, for example, the cover of the original Red Box or the painting of the party standing around the wyvern or dragon hanging from the tree in the 2E PHB to much of Wayne Reynolds' art, you will see what might be meant by "realism."How bout a little realism in your artwork, Paizo?If you are interested in realism, fantasy games might not be the best place to look.
Third Edition was much worse when it came to perspective and proportions.
I always loved that pic from the 2nd ed. PHB. (Also the random all blue picture of the ornate bottle labeled "stuff". ) There's another one which I find stylistically similar. It was in the 2nd ed.Complete Cleric. A female cleric praying over some guy after an ogre or something smashed him an tromped off. (Also the random all blue picture of the ornate bottle labeled "stuff". ) I would'nt mind things paizo did for art heading in that direction. In general i like paizo's art.
I might buy that if I thought strippers represented the pinnacle of human charisma.
Sure, but you don't get to decide what is the pinnacle of human charisma for everyone. Some people like the stripper type. Some like the waifs. Some like chubby girls. Some like bodybuilders. But you have singled out one body type and said "I don't think this is appropriate for an RPG book, it's silly and condescending," as if your concept of what is attractive or not is what sets the standard for everyone.
What if all the women in Paizo art were muscular armored types? We would have people complain that "women are more than just their physicality, why can't we get any smart women in illustrations?" And complain, "all the beefy chicks are ridiculous and condescending, when can we get some skinny girls?" And complain, "you'd have to work out three hours a day and use steroids to get a build like that, normal muscular women don't look like that, why can't your art show realistic strong females, like powerlifters, who actually have body fat?"
Some people think Seoni is "hot." Others think Kyra is "hot." Others think Seelah is "hot." Some think Imrijka (the half-orc inquisitor) is "hot." Alahazra, the iconic oracle, is literally "hot" because she's an oracle of flame, and she's a Charisma-based caster just like Seoni. Different preferences.
So... you don't like the (two) voluptuous female iconic characters (and the "roided out" male characters). We get that. But most people disagree with you. Most people really like Paizo's (award-winning) art style. And most people don't think it's exploitive or condescending.
I love most of Paizo's art, but Seoni does make me a little sad. I'm not talking about how she's built. Vanity glamours, magic boobjobs, "fantasy ideals"; call it what you will. But after reading the blurb about her character, her style of dress (and even her posture in a lot of illustrations) don't feel appropriate. Visually she dresses and carries herself as the typical, glamorous and uninhibited sorcerer chick (obligatory), which I suppose could fit for a Varisian lady. But her personality actually sounds a lot more rigid and reserved than that.
I have no idea how or why her character was actually conceived, but it looks like maybe the designers said "lets buck the rebellious-teenage-sorceress trend", then whoever handled the art order said "exotic fantasy babe, no armor, got it." Or (perhaps more depressingly) she was designed to yield to the sexualized sorcerer stereotype, and whoever made that decision thought they could "compensate" by making her Lawful Neutral with an unspontaneous personality.
I might buy that if I thought strippers represented the pinnacle of human charisma.Sure, but you don't get to decide what is the pinnacle of human charisma for everyone. Some people like the stripper type. Some like the waifs. Some like chubby girls. Some like bodybuilders. But you have singled out one body type and said "I don't think this is appropriate for an RPG book, it's silly and condescending," as if your concept of what is attractive or not is what sets the standard for everyone.
What if all the women in Paizo art were muscular armored types? We would have people complain that "women are more than just their physicality, why can't we get any smart women in illustrations?" And complain, "all the beefy chicks are ridiculous and condescending, when can we get some skinny girls?" And complain, "you'd have to work out three hours a day and use steroids to get a build like that, normal muscular women don't look like that, why can't your art show realistic strong females, like powerlifters, who actually have body fat?"
Some people think Seoni is "hot." Others think Kyra is "hot." Others think Seelah is "hot." Some think Imrijka (the half-orc inquisitor) is "hot." Alahazra, the iconic oracle, is literally "hot" because she's an oracle of flame, and she's a Charisma-based caster just like Seoni. Different preferences.
So... you don't like the (two) voluptuous female iconic characters (and the "roided out" male characters). We get that. But most people disagree with you. Most people really like Paizo's (award-winning) art style. And most people don't think it's exploitive or condescending.
+1 to all of this (in spite of my last post).
Also, I'm one of those people who think Imrijka is hot.
[
I'm married. No need to feel sorry for me - My wife is in great shape and has very nice breasts, but they have never looked like that and never will without invasive surgery.Now, you could be Sammy Hagar for all I know, but in my experience, breasts do not look like that naturally. The only place I've seen breasts like that are in strip clubs and pornos.
IMO, "art" like that disengages women from Pathfinder. I have two adult women (one is my wife) who play in my game and I find myself trying to suppress these images because I think they completely misrepresent what the game is about. In short, it's embarrassing and somewhat sexist art.
Beyond that, it's bad business.
I wasn't saying breasts like that occur in a naturally nude state. But are there bustiers out there that create a fantastic shelf like those without surgery? Definitely. These women are not naked. They are wearing outfits that give lift and definition, and I do not bat an eye in stating these are not only well within the realm of possibility, but in the realm of my own experience.
I am not Sammy Hagar, by the way, but I have been backstage at his shows and have known many of the same people. In my day/area of the world, it was common to run into members of Journey, Night Ranger, Y&T, Mr. Big, Metallica, etc. Yes, I am an old man.
I don't have a problem with the way women are depicted in these books. There may have been a time once when I would have been embarrassed or worried that somebody's mom might be looking over my shoulder at a comic book or RPG with that sort of thing. But the world has changed. Hey, I grew up with, and still live around - and game with! - ladies who are very independent and even some who consider themselves feminists, one of them my wife. If they are okay with it, I am.
I might buy that if I thought strippers represented the pinnacle of human charisma.Sure, but you don't get to decide what is the pinnacle of human charisma for everyone. Some people like the stripper type. Some like the waifs. Some like chubby girls. Some like bodybuilders. But you have singled out one body type and said "I don't think this is appropriate for an RPG book, it's silly and condescending," as if your concept of what is attractive or not is what sets the standard for everyone.
Your the one who said she was the stereotypical "attractive woman" because she had high charisma.
Bruunwald, what band were you in?
Your the one who said she was the stereotypical "attractive woman" because she had high charisma.
I believe he was replying to implications that Seoni contributes to a trend of unrealistic expectations for women. The idea is that she's supposed to look freakishly attractive; not that her body type is the ONLY type which one may regard as such.
(Personally, I still don't think those boobs look real, but that's not the end of the world)
As a female gamer, I think it's fine. The sorts in the mood to complain would complain regardless of what the art was.
It's fantasy and at least in some part escapsism. Some people like to imagine their characters as better and more attractive than themselves and that is totally okay.
I like attractive character art for both guys and girls. Are they exaggerated? Sure! And that's cool. They're awesome heroes. They can look like movie stars.
Paizo's art rules all.
I might buy that if I thought strippers represented the pinnacle of human charisma.
Sure, but you don't get to decide what is the pinnacle of human charisma for everyone.
When did I suggest otherwise? I don't recall ever using the word "us" or "we," much less "everyone."
Some people like the stripper type. Some like the waifs. Some like chubby girls. Some like bodybuilders. But you have singled out one body type and said "I don't think this is appropriate for an RPG book, it's silly and condescending," as if your concept of what is attractive or not is what sets the standard for everyone.
That may be so, but that doesn't change the fact that stripper-like images are unrealistic (unless plastic surgery is a lot more common in Golarion than I thought) and probably alienating to many people.
What if all the women in Paizo art were muscular armored types? We would have people complain that "women are more than just their physicality, why can't we get any smart women in illustrations?" And complain, "all the beefy chicks are ridiculous and condescending, when can we get some skinny girls?" And complain, "you'd have to work out three hours a day and use steroids to get a build like that, normal muscular women don't look like that, why can't your art show realistic strong females, like powerlifters, who actually have body fat?"
I'm not saying all men or women should look a certain way, and I won't deny that people will complain regardless. I'm just saying I think these plastic images are in poor taste and hurt the game's image, and I would even suggest that you are alienating people who don't want their RPG's to promote this sort of imagery.
I wish I could take a picture of Seoni and survey people's reaction to it, but all I can do is throw my two cents out there.
Feel free to ignore me if you want, but I just showed Seoni to my wife (without any prior discussion) and she had no kind words for that image (two of the adjectives were "demeaning" and "degrading") But hey, maybe you're right, and we're just another couple of people with isolated opinions.
So... you don't like the (two) voluptuous female iconic characters (and the "roided out" male characters). We get that. But most people disagree with you. Most people really like Paizo's (award-winning) art style. And most people don't think it's exploitive or condescending.
I see - I didn't realize since have your finger on the pulse of so many "people."
That's great that Paizo's won so many awards, and I also think Paizo has done a lot of good/great things, but that doesn't make Paizo a perfect entity.
When did I suggest otherwise? I don't recall ever using the word "us" or "we," much less "everyone."
It did look a lot like you were saying that high-CHA characters should not look like Seoni (you spoke of a "pinnacle of human charisma" as though there were only one of them).
Your current argument is a bit different, though I'm still not sure if I agree with it. Countless aspects of this genre are based on ideals rather than on reality; the issue seems to be that, in this case, you are personally offended by the ideal.
Honestly, I might even agree that that particular ideal is overplayed in our society, and that I sort of wish it wasn't. There is a huge range of other (often more natural) body types out there which I think are under-appreciated, often (unfortunately) by the very people who possess them. But I don't take offense at those who do like the, as you put it, "stripper" ideal. At the end of the day this is a fantasy game, and like Umbral Reaver put it, some people do want their characters to look like movie stars.
To me, looking at one image in isolation and calling it "demeaning and degrading" comes off as very scornful of women who actually do have that body type. It's overdone, but it isn't evil by itself.
|
Regarding it being bad business to have some cheesecake in the art, some of the raciest images you see in the general public (like at your average supermarket or book store) are on the covers of Cosmopolitan magazine. Considering how long this magazine has been around, I'd say it has a fairly successful business model... which includes being aimed VERY DIRECTLY at women.
Most of the offended reactions seem to stem from a feeling that someone SHOULD be offended... not that they actually are.
|
I still have faith that this thread can go in a positive direction. I love the artwork of Wayne Reynolds, and I would like to see some artwork being brought over from some of the other 3.5 giants such as: Steve Prescott, and Vinod Ramms. All three of these men really captured the D&D look for me and I feel Wayne Reynolds is doing an amazing job for Pathfinder. You guys are making an amazing choice on artwork for your books and I wish to encourage you to keep it up for years to come!!
Feel free to ignore me if you want, but I just showed Seoni to my wife (without any prior discussion) and she had no kind words for that image (two of the adjectives were "demeaning" and "degrading") But hey, maybe you're right, and we're just another couple of people with isolated opinions.
How about this woman? Is this photo demeaning and degrading?
|
Example of well-done half-naked beautiful:
http://www.neogrognard.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Loviatar_DnD1.jpg
That's 1E Dieties and Demigods. That image is well-done and in-context half-naked beautiful.
Gonna have to disagree with you there. She looks boring IMO. I'll take Seoni. She's good fantasy art to me, because I'll likely never see a woman like her. Though, I totally dig Seelah as well. Nothing like a having a black coworker look over your cubicle and go "That's D&D right? I remember when I was a kid there were never any black people." then be able to flip to badass Seelah and go "BAMPF" awesome black chick kicking ass.
Further as an art style as a whole. I love Paizo's art. They always seem to evoke some kind of excitement in me, and inspire me. If when my brother comes up to me and says he wants to be like Imrijka(sp) because she's bad ass looking isn't defense enough of the art. Then I can no longer defend it adequately enough for some peoples standards.
|
|
Feel free to ignore me if you want, but I just showed Seoni to my wife (without any prior discussion) and she had no kind words for that image (two of the adjectives were "demeaning" and "degrading") But hey, maybe you're right, and we're just another couple of people with isolated opinions.How about this woman? Is this photo demeaning and degrading?
Nope, but she's not doing it for me. I like more curves...
|
Seoni has a 20+ Charisma at level 10. That means she is in the top .5% of humanity on the attractiveness scale...I might buy that if I thought strippers represented the pinnacle of human charisma.
Hennet, the 3rd edition iconic sorcerer is bare-chested, well-muscled, and practically a leather-fetishist. Is he condescending, too? Or is it just the depiction of attractive women that's condescending?I think I said before I'm not a fan of the roided-out males either
You do realize that:
1) It's possible for a woman to have a very good body and actually like to show that off without being a stripper, and2) It's possible for a man to be very muscular without doing steroids.
---
Different folks, different ideas of fantasy (ideals)
Though I like the male art in the books (mmhmm, sexy monk iconic) I feel there isn't enough male side beefcake. At least for me, there isn't enough. I want lean mean, muscle brutes, a whole gamut of male beauty deliciously favoured to a broad range of fantasy sexiness .... mmhmm ...
So I would stand to say there isn't enough cheese to my men in my books. Could I ask Paizo to try and be more ... unrealistic and give me more midriff wearing, shirt baring, leg showing, arm flexing men?
Pretty please :D ?
---
I'm actually looking at a lot of iconic art now (mostly because I just discovered Keven Andrew Murphy's spectacular Valentine's Day offering). What bothers me most isn't that Sajan is ripped, it's that Amiri isn't.
In fact, you can't see as much of her, but to me it looks like she's built exactly like Seoni.
She also appears to ascribe to the theory that showing off your boobs, hips, and belly provides a deflection bonus to AC. "Sure, tie as much armor as you can find to your arms and legs, but whatever you do, DON'T put any over your vital organs!"
|
I just spoke to Seoni (though her agent) and she would like to provide the following:
"I apologize if my pictures have been the source of any 'objectification.' My intent was not to demean women or offend anyone. In my defense there was a wardrobe malfunction and perhaps some air brushing of the pictures. Women should in no way attempt to emulate the image of my body shown in those pictures."
She would comment directly, but unfortunately, she is currently on a world-wind tour for Coppertone. :-)
In fact, you can't see as much of her, but to me it looks like she's built exactly like Seoni.If you want to see Amiri, in the flesh so to speak, attend GenCon. She'll be there. :-)
Oh yea, I've seen the pics. :) It was an awesome costume, and she looked awesome in it.
That said (and don't get me wrong, I'm sure she's in great shape, but) a hulking cavewoman with a twenty pound sword she is not. So the fact that the resemblance was so striking is.. really kind of sad.
And it's not like Wayne's Amiri even needs to be some gigantic fantasy muscle-women. Real women aren't as strong as real men, I get that, that something we glaze over for our fantasy games. But the male warriors are totally ripped, and the female warriors (apparently) don't even have visible abs.
I'm okay with "fantasy idealism", but it would be nice if (at least in my fantasy) men and women weren't subjected to such wildly different ideals.
Most of the offended reactions seem to stem from a feeling that someone SHOULD be offended... not that they actually are.
+1
How about this woman? Is this photo demeaning and degrading?
First off, that's a photo, not art.
Second, as I said before, context is an important consideration. In the context of bodybuilding, the photo is fine. Now, if you plunked that photo into one of your core rulebooks without any good reason for it, I don't think I would call it demeaning & degrading, but I would say it's cheesy and condescending.
You do realize that:
1) It's possible for a woman to have a very good body and actually like to show that off without being a stripper, and
2) It's possible for a man to be very muscular without doing steroids.
Of course I realize that, but that's not the imagery Paizo is projecting IMO.
Why is it that everytime I start an innocent thread it becomes a war zone? Am I cursed?
This is why we can have nice things children.
As for the art, I'm a fan of art. Art is what makes us human. Basically, if you get offended because of art, like we always said in the marines, "suck it the f*+* up!" Guess what? The Greek and Romans had half naked ladies in a lot of their art and culture. Don't like it? Don't look at it then. But that doesn't make it bad art. That's just part of history, can't change that.
The human body in any form whether clothed or naked is art. You don't HAVE to like it, but that doesn't mean you gotta throw negative comments down. Just saying. Good job Paizo and keep up the good work.
|
|
But the male warriors are totally ripped, and the female warriors (apparently) don't even have visible abs.
This has been my one disappointment with Amiri's character design. I really wish her musculature leaned more towards Brom's Neeva from Dark Sun. (look up "Brom Dominator" and "Brom Wings")
She's also frequently drawn as even less muscular than her WAR design in other pieces of art. Hopefully Seelah and Imrijka could pick up the slack, but we'll probably never know considering their wardrobe. And really out of all of the iconics if any female character is going to be ripped it should probably be the GRAR! BARBARIAN!
Just a few quick points:
Re: Sajan
Anyone who thinks you have to take steroids to look like that has never seen Bruce Lee (you know, the REAL "iconic monk") with his shirt off.
Re: Seoni
Anyone who thinks you need plastic surgery to look like Seoni needs to go to the beach sometime. Or hell, any university in the spring.
Re: Charisma
Part of "charisma" is the ability to attract and hold attention. If an individual is in the top 0.5% of the most charismatic in the world, I see nothing wrong with some not-inconsequential percentage of that appeal being sexual in nature. You may be "enlightened" to gender sensibilities, but that won't stop heads from turning when a gorgeous person walks down the street.
Re: Fantasy Art
The game is in part an attempt to recreate pulp-era fiction like Conan and Ffafhrd & Grey Mouser et. al. You can't turn over a rock without finding a lady that looks like cheesecake in these stories. If we were discussing a superhero game, would people still be complaining about spandex and capes (and cheesecake)? It's part of the genre, and if you are SO offended, pick a different genre to play.
If Seoni wore any more clothing, we wouldn't be able to see her wicked tattoos!